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    Default sx 4s

    I want to discuss sexual 4s.They are usually described as the assertive 4s, they're competitive and they're are supposed to deal with a lot of envy. They can even seem 8-like in their possessive nature and can be quite clingy in a relationship.


    Ok... That's about what's been said about them. Now I wonder if sx 4s could perhaps hide their envy inside without ever openly showing off as envious people? Same about the competitiveness, can this be more of an inner struggle than something that necessaryly shows on the outside?
    Like comparing oneself to other people and silently envying them their positie traits or success? Being in a competitions with others just by silent comparation and me vs. them approach? Like getting a point in one's own mind everytime you prove yourself to be just as good or better than the people you silently envy, but never actually voicing it out loud?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    I want to discuss sexual 4s.They are usually described as the assertive 4s, they're competitive and they're are supposed to deal with a lot of envy. They can even seem 8-like in their possessive nature and can be quite clingy in a relationship.
    I have been with female SX 4s before. This is all absolutely true, lol.

    As I understand, the main path for their growth is self-acceptance. Allow your feelings to float to the surface, the good, the bad and the ugly; then analyze them objectively. Ask yourself how rational some of your fears are, and if there is actually evidence for them. I have a strong 4 wing and 8 fix, so I've had to do this myself.

    For example: if you're worried about not being accepted for who you are, sexually, and having to be amazing/special/unique/whatever, then consider this. If you are in a relationship and being fucked right now, somebody has accepted you. That is a fact. If you are still not happy, then you need to brainstorm other possible reasons why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Like comparing oneself to other people and silently envying them their positie traits or success? Being in a competitions with others just by silent comparation and me vs. them approach? Like getting a point in one's own mind everytime you prove yourself to be just as good or better than the people you silently envy, but never actually voicing it out loud?
    Also again, it is important to question how rational some of those fears are in the first place; consider the evidence for and against them. What do you benefit from caring about somebody else's success or lack thereof? I care a lot about how attractive I am to women, but I don't care what other men do unless they try to cockblock me. That is a shit move and I won't tolerate it.

    If someone has a trait you value, ask them if they will teach you. If they say yes, hopefully you will soon have those skills as well. I feel that envy is the biggest killer of one's potential, after perfectionism.

    To me it is not complicated. The more evidence you have that contradicts your fear, the less likely you will be to engage in this kind of behaviour. Each subsequent step forward you take will be easier than the one before it.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-09-2017 at 10:24 PM.

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    The competitive part is true, sx is the most competitive 4, because the mating game is competitive. Though they dont necessarily have to be more assertive than other 4s. Assertion has more to do with the fixes...
    I think sp/sx 4 is the most 8ish 4 because that stacking goes their own way most of all the stackings and its most neurotic about the self and can appear as if nothing really bothers them (e.g. Stevie Nicks). She's 497 which is the most "fairy-ish" tritype but because of that stacking she is tough and to me appears kind of like nothing bothers her. BUT the shame gestalt is still clear to me with her, in her face and body language.
    The envy part, yeah every 4 though can keep it inside or be quiet about it. Some or not conscious about it. In fact I would say most aren't:
    Four: Self-sufficiency
    The passion of Fours is envy. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of contentment. At that time, Fours want to appear self-sufficient. They claim to be satisfied with who they are and what they have. What others have that they lack is hence useless, devoid of interest and they are happy to do without. In French literature, there is a famous fable, by Jean de La Fontaine, that describes the counterpassion of the Four and reveals a transparent haughtiness and the persistence of envy.
    I don't envy others success. I envy peoples natural ability to be normal and to function normally and not feel like a distorted alien. But I often deny that envy to myself because I don't want to see it and I want to keep an image of not giving a shit what people think about me (I dont care what most people think about me (from what Im aware of) but I care what people I have an interest or attraction in think of me) and just be contempt being me, disconnected from the world because they are "not interesting anyway".

    Type is so subconscious (which is why tests never work) and the idea with enneagram I think is to make the subconscious, conscious.
    Last edited by maniac; 10-10-2017 at 08:26 AM.

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    Se PoLR steers clear of competition.

    Extroverted sensing or “Se” is responsible for the perception, control, defense, and acquisition of space, territory, power and control. It observes outward appearances, estimates and analyzes whether forces are in alignment or conflict, and uses strength of will and power-based methods to achieve purposes. Se understands territory (who has acquired what) and physical aggression. It is also the function of contact and apprehension of qualia, constant physical traits of objects. In EIIs, Se is weak and subdued.

    Se will manifest in roughly two ways in an EII: The first is our virtual obliviousness to our surroundings. Although we tend to be very organized people and feel like our thoughts are fairly organized too, they are quick to leap from one subject to another thanks to Ne, and we often feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of information running through our minds. EIIs have a tendency to “space out.” We will leave personal belongings in places and fail to notice changes in our environment. We are frequently lost in our own thoughts and can tune out external reality, even in the middle of something like driving or a conversation. This has the potential of causing major problems. More than once I have had to ask someone, “I’m sorry, what were you saying?” only to have them become frustrated at having to repeat themselves and then assuming that I just don’t care about what they have to say, which is usually a grossly incorrect assumption. Personally, I have to sort of shift my focus in order to take in stuff going on around me, but it’s not long until something I see propels me into thought and I am lost again. I also have a hard time with directions, so getting physically lost is not a difficult feat either. I also don’t feel a need to maintain eye contact with people – I can listen and know what they’re saying and its emotional context without measuring all their body language and facial expression. Of course, that varies from situation to situation. In any case, I would like to let everyone out there know that it’s not because we don’t value what you have to say and you shouldn’t take it personally. I am being honest when I say that I always mean well – always. Sometimes, negative emotions (mostly anger, not sadness) given off by someone are so strong that I can’t bear to look at them.


    The second manifestation of our PoLR is a complete aversion to force, aggression, conflict, violence, competition, and the whole idea of bending people and situations to get what one wants. This is where you get the “overly sensitive” aspect of our personalities. If someone says something in a way that is remotely confrontational, we retreat. If someone really wants to argue, we fall silent. If people are fighting, we will either try to settle the disagreement, get up and leave, or both. We will not “intrude on others’ space,” whether physically or psychologically. We are virtually incapable of making anyone do anything or refusing a request. No matter how badly we may want something, if you flatly refuse, we are likely to back down, at least after a short while. EIIs do not make things happen – we prefer to wait for them to happen or let someone else take the lead. In those rare occasions where we try to be forceful, we become extremely uncomfortable and vulnerable. It’s terrifying. We want everyone to get along, to share their thoughts in an accepting and peaceful discourse. We want everyone to “win” and leave unscarred, and since that seldom happens in an Se environment, we avoid such environments.


    People with strong Se are able to weigh out how much “force” is being applied and to what effect. EIIs simply cannot do this. We interpret most forms of criticism as personal assaults on our character which are meant to demonstrate a disapproval of some integral part of our self-concept. We sometimes have trouble differentiating between a sarcastic jab and an insult because we are inclined to think that even negative comments directed toward someone as a joke are still implying some kind of honest criticism underneath the supposed lightheartedness. In short, we can take lots of things personally unless given some kind of clear signal (spoken or otherwise) that we aren’t actually being attacked.
    Which is why there is a large chunk of the SX 4 description that doesn't make much sense for them. SX 4s Se-PoLRs may not be 'assertive' in the classical sense, may still be very gentle and soft otherwise, but may have a slight pointed-ness if you will, to their otherwise soft energy. They may also sound more assertive and/or aggressive than they actually are online and on text. Important because so much of the typology discussion today is done online.

    They may also argue just a tiny bit longer than other EIIs might but if it is hitting their PoLR it will most certainly take a toll on them. Any slight aggression almost feels like being hit on the head with a hammer; it feels 'violent'- my mind quite literally interprets it is as violent. I get violent nightmares and things like that. I am also SP last so there's that contributing to this as well.

    I don't relate to the SX 4 descriptions.

    IMO, if the SX and the 4 description applies to you, it's okay if you don't fit the SX 4 description. A lot of these subtype descriptions may not take into account certain types of people.
    Last edited by VenusRose; 01-10-2019 at 07:20 PM.

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