ENFps acting 'tough' and courageous, mimicking ESTps and ESFps

[meatburger]

Hey all,

Probablly no one is too interested but i just came across something very meaningful to me on a russian site. It probablly wont relate to anyone except possibly topaz or traveller. The passage states

Frequently the behavior of men -.ENFP whisks away to caricature ISTJ - to such an extent it is desirable them to appear courageous and strong. But in this case they suffer the dual defeat: by them badly succeeds strange role and, furthermore, they are deprived of the possibility to start their main advantages.

I had recently came to this conclusion myself, that i was portraying fake and now i know that this is definately what i was doing. I was acting tough and not letting anyone in, and it wasn't really working. The funny thing is my dad is an ISTj. So if even normal ENFp's have a drive to act courageous in this way i am probablly even more so. Lol so heres Meatburger an ENFp with an overactive function.

Anyway thanks to Socionics for giving me direction. I just dont know how to not act courageous and strong and still not be a pussy. I will work this out

The lesson to be learnt from this is to be yourself!

[science as magic]

i've noticed this myself in enfps. i've always found it odd and comical. this is supposedly something that all types do however. it is really funny when an intj does it heh.

[cracka]

I just dont know how to not act courageous and strong and still not be a pussy.

hahaha, I like how this was worded.

[Topaz]

Hey all,

Probablly no one is too interested but i just came across something very meaningful to me on a russian site. It probablly wont relate to anyone except possibly topaz or traveller. The passage states

Frequently the behavior of men -.ENFP whisks away to caricature ISTJ - to such an extent it is desirable them to appear courageous and strong. But in this case they suffer the dual defeat: by them badly succeeds strange role and, furthermore, they are deprived of the possibility to start their main advantages.

I had recently came to this conclusion myself, that i was portraying fake and now i know that this is definately what i was doing. I was acting tough and not letting anyone in, and it wasn't really working. The funny thing is my dad is an ISTj. So if even normal ENFp's have a drive to act courageous in this way i am probablly even more so. Lol so heres Meatburger an ENFp with an overactive function.

Anyway thanks to Socionics for giving me direction. I just dont know how to not act courageous and strong and still not be a pussy. I will work this out

The lesson to be learnt from this is to be yourself!

I agree. Being yourself is a good idea. Trust your instincts and common sense and I think you will act appropriately. Usually those influences to be different come from one or two people who think stereotypically. I dont go around picking fights or looking for them. I think thats rather foolish. I also think that being assertive or courageous does not have to involve being tactless. ENFPs can use to diplomacy to affect changes that another type might not be able to achieve. To me its more important to stand up for right principles and be honest with others.

[meatburger]

It makes so much sense. I think this is probablly why all the ENFj's at work seem to like me. They must be a little fooled by my fake ISTj'ness

Well i did follow my own advice and had a good time on the weekend. I got a bit excited though and drank sooo much. I yakked on the floor of my ESTj friends bedroom a little. He told me to clean it up when i was feeling better. lol

I did use a little bit of on saturday though. I went to a bar and tried to play some pool and no balls came out of the table after we put some money in. We had to go anyway so i asked the bar girl if we could have a refund as no balls came out of the table. I was really poilte but she said we are too stupid to look if there were are balls in the table. That made me very annoyed. I said "who looks if there are balls in the table?". Anyway my didn't help but as i walked out of the bar i flipped her off. She started throwing ice at us down the stairs.

Se is handy when talking to other strong Se people but it should be used sparingly

[cracka]

I always make fun of the people that put their money in the table when there's a sign next to the coin thingy that says... Balls are with Bartender at the Bar. hahahaha. if there's no sign i could imagine that it'd be easier to not look though.

[meatburger]

Hmm it was actually my ESTj friend who put the money in funnily enough so being ESTj i would have thought he would notice that

I have never seen that before though. I still think it was rude of her to say that considering how many drinks i bought at the place. I was just talking to someone at work and she thinks its a Bikie Club so im probablly lucky i didn't get pummelled and stabbed.

[cracka]

I have never seen that before though. I still think it was rude of her to say that considering how many drinks i bought at the place.

yeah I hate that... When i go somewhere quite a bit, tip very well, bring in tons of business with friends and colleagues, and then get some rude bastard or ignorant waitress that doesn't like something about me or the group i'm with, then pretty much says that we're not welcome at a place or something. Not that this has happened very much at all but it has happened because some friends tend to do stupid shit when drunk...lol.
The good thing about being fairly well known at most of the places I go to is that I tend to know people that will stand up for anything that I or one of my friends will do. Like a rude waitress that thinks my business isn't welcome and tells me that, with her manager (my current friend with benefits... ) standing behind her, the manager tells her to stop being an ass and apologize...ah good times.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[schrödinger's cat]

BTW, this fake meatburger was talking about - does anyone else fake that? I fake it if I'm with my Mum, because she's a FiSe and does not approve of third-function-Se. If I'm with my husband, I love it that I don't have to be bloody proactive all the time, or to have all the answers. Bliss.

[meatburger]

It came as a realisation when a girl at work said that i always act serious. I thought, hmm shes new what does she know, but then i realised that yes i do act quite serious quite a lot. Im sure its my dads influence on me / trying to emulate ISTj.

I dont think ENFp girls would suffer from the fake too much. I think i use occasionally when relating to the tougher type of guys or if some one is trying to pick a fight etc. It is useful to be able to use it so people dont think your weak.

I have noticed now that i have loosened up everyone keeps talking to me. I found it really exiting for a day or so but also exhausting. I reverted back to looking unnaproachable today as i didn't want so much attention from people

[XoX]

I dont think ENFp girls would suffer from the fake too much. I think i use occasionally when relating to the tougher type of guys or if some one is trying to pick a fight etc. It is useful to be able to use it so people dont think your weak.

So why do you have these constant fears of being perceived weak? Fears strong enough to disrupt your normal self and take on a role. Have you been in prison or something? Or do you hang out with people who will shoot you if they smell your weakness? Or is it just something you have learned from watching too much movies or what

Edit: Actually I can imagine how you behave when you switch to your mode. You occasionally do it here in the forum too though in a very mild form. It is somehow weird.

[meatburger]

So why do you have these constant fears of being perceived weak? Fears strong enough to disrupt your normal self and take on a role. Have you been in prison or something? Or do you hang out with people who will shoot you if they smell your weakness? Or is it just something you have learned from watching too much movies or what

What i was talking about before wasn't a major fear. I do agree that i have an underlying desire to appear courageous and strong which is what this thread is about. What i meant was that i use as a tool occasionaly around the tough guys etc. ENFps are quite adaptable beings. We understand psychological distance and people quite well. In case you haven't noticed, the world is actually still quite a dangerous place. In Australia at least you undoubtedly get yourself in situations where someone wants to club you or your friend. Maybe because they are drunk, maybe because they are jealous, who knows.

What i should be doing when approached with one of these situations is using my charm first and foremost, but sometimes a small peppering of to let them know to back off can be benificial. I mean just on the weekend i was approached by some angry type dude who was talking to me about his night, i had to act a little tough just to keep on the level with him.

Now you might say that it is a "dual" defeat as they dont buy my fake . I personally think i can use it to a reasonable degree in an emergency for a short period. Im a good actor

Edit: Actually I can imagine how you behave when you switch to your mode. You occasionally do it here in the forum too though in a very mild form. It is somehow weird.

Thank you for this observation. I have realised i still have a lot of soul searching to do. I know i act like this and its probablly more at this point in my life. I was curious if anyone would pick up anything strange about an ENFp like this over a forum

I'm amazed at what saying the words "friends with benefits" has done to this thread...lol

lol just as long as there is conversation going im happy

[UDP]

i've noticed this myself in enfps. i've always found it odd and comical. this is supposedly something that all types do however. it is really funny when an intj does it heh.

how do you mean...

*feels guilty*

[meatburger]

An ENTp guy i know likes to act pretty tough. Hes not really weak but he seems to think he is Jet Li. When he talks tough you do feel like telling him to get real.

[science as magic]

how do you mean...

*feels guilty*

the idea they have in their head does not conform to their display of physical presence. they act all twitchy and nervous and sort of "closed up" (?) or what have you but in their minds they are this image that is flexing its muscles and assertive and so forth it's pretty funny. I remember doing this with an esfj once. i bet she was laughing her ass off inside of her head

[schrödinger's cat]

the idea they have in their head does not conform to their display of physical presence. they act all twitchy and nervous and sort of "closed up" (?) or what have you but in their minds they are this image that is flexing its muscles and assertive and so forth

Anyone noticed that in themselves? I did, but I do it the other way round (I think I look nervous and like a grey little mouse when I don't).

[meatburger]

Anyone noticed that in themselves? I did, but I do it the other way round (I think I look nervous and like a grey little mouse when I don't).

Yeah the same thing happened to me. When i had my Anxiety problem i would say to people, but couldn't you tell how i looked? They would say no i have no idea. I think its because we are very sensitive of what we are displaying to others. It could also be because we expect others to notice all the little twitches we notice. People with similar functions might but most people dont.

[Topaz]

I sometimes have to stand up and speak before an audience. At first I was terrified and imagined everyone could tell. Later people would say "Wow, I guess speaking in front of others is natural for you. I get so nervous. How do you not feel nervous?". When I told them how I was really feeling they were shocked.

[Ms. Kensington]

i dont know exactly what you are talking about..

but i tend to want to wisk people off their feet and charm them to death.. happens with ENFps .. oddly, female enfps . However I've had an ENFp pamper me as well.

[Rubicon]

There's this guy I know who I think is ENFp; he thinks so too. Sometimes he can be almost rude in the way he deals with people though. The male role models around him are that way, so I was thinking that could be affecting his behaviour. It's just an act he's putting on to appear more tough, because if any confrontations are born of his behaviour, he backs down immediately and apologises. He's actually told me that his behaviour isn't natural and that he puts it on to avoid being thought of as sensitive.

Has anyone come across ENFps that act this way?

[JuJu]

Yeah, me for the first 20-something years of my life. Seriously.

There's a misconception that ENFps, (and furthermore Deltas) aren't intense or tough... Hitta the other day mis-typed Kevin Garnett (ENFp) because he was "too fierce" to be ENFp, or Delta. Hopefully this thread will clear up that misconception.

During the teens there's a lot of stereotypical macho b.s. that some guys try to live up to... I imagine that this affects ENFps more than a lot of types... Eventually a lot of guys grow out of it and just become themselves.

[Cheesy]

Definitely, I think it's common. I know an ENFP girl that acts confrontational in an ESFP way but you can tell that she's just an ENFP acting out. She really surprises me with how confrontational and seemingly tough she can be because I don't expect that from her. When she wants to get her way and it doesn't work in the usual methods, she activates her Se until she gets it. When she's relaxed, she switches back to her normal goofy, impulsive behavior and loves doing things. She is a very obvious ENFP but it seems like she has developed and deals with it quite well but she doesn't enjoy it and prefers to be in the mode. She seems to think that it's the only way out in some situations.
In places that you feel like you can't act naturally, the role function and super-ego put on a seemingly confident act.
If the surroundings demand your role function, you will attempt to adjust to this and develop it in yourself in order to seem normal. You want this function to seem like it's just like anybody else's so if the environment thinks that is the normal behavior, the ENFP will want to fit in with that. I think that the Se behavior does strain them a little. When they relax and feel like they can be themselves, they go back to their natural, fun personality. They usually activate Se if they feel like it's the only way to get what they want/if the surroundings demand Se behavior and they want to fit in.

[Rubicon]

I think Marlon Brando was an ENFp. A screwed-up one.

[dbmmama]

There's this guy I know who I think is ENFp; he thinks so too. Sometimes he can be almost rude in the way he deals with people though. The male role models around him are that way, so I was thinking that could be affecting his behaviour. It's just an act he's putting on to appear more tough, because if any confrontations are born of his behaviour, he backs down immediately and apologises. He's actually told me that his behaviour isn't natural and that he puts it on to avoid being thought of as sensitive.

Has anyone come across ENFps that act this way?

it's starting to sound more and more like me at this point. very much so. it must not have to do with being male if it's so. it was no fun being so sensitive growing up. i had to "act" tough to even be heard by my mom.

[xyz]

I wonder if putting on an air of toughness is a Feeler thing?
eh

[Rubicon]

If I am an ENFp as I think I am, that's exactly how I behave at times. I kind of become different with some people. In my case it is not something I actively try to do, I just kind of "mirror" other people to connect with them better or to compete with them - like a sport or a challenge, maybe. I feel like an idiot sometimes, even mimicking accents of foreigners.... I could have bitten my tongue off... I can't keep in the other person's mode for long, and it stresses me. Either I have to slowly change back to myself, or I kind of "escape" (stay away from the person I mirrored) instead of showing that I was only pretending to be different.

However it is still debated whether I am an ENFp or not...

You're also considering ENFj aren't you? You sound pretty ENFp IMO. The ENFp I was talking about does exactly what you're describing. He's told me that sometimes he can't help mirroring peoples' behaviour even though he feels like an idiot for doing so. :-) Like it's almost something out of his control. I see him going overboard sometimes with 'pretend' Fe and I find it funny because it's so obviously fake to me. When I ask him if he knows how he's coming across he'll be like 'yeah, I can sort of see myself objectively acting like a fool, but it's like a compulsion - a mode I can't snap out of.' Sometimes I can tell who he's talking to on the phone, because he starts unconsciously mimicing the person's voice and their style of talking. :-)

[jason_m]

Do a Google search for "John Rocker." I get the feeling JuJu will type him as an ENFp. If you look at his pictures, there's a certain intensity to him. Also, he isn't afraid of making controversial statements.

Jason

EDIT: I should also mention that one MBTI book I have states that male ENFPs can put on a macho, "tough guy" facade to fit in with male society. I know that the MBTI and socionics types are not necessarily equivalent, but there is a correlation between the two systems, so it's worth mentioning.

[JuJu]

I'll be honest... When I was younger (teens) I altered my behavior (emphasized Se) to be 'one of the guys'... It took effort and ultimately it sucked. When friends, girls, whomever liked me, they usually liked the front... I mean, I dated a lot of girls who didn't really know my true personality... I dated A LOT too, just to show off, (i.e. get w/ the hottest girl,) and played a lot of sports, (who was best,) same reason...

I was trying to prove myself, and not acting true to my real personality... It was a waste of the person I actually was. This is not a sad story--a lot of ppl do this, I think, (to some degree.) I learned a lesson.

Se had always been emphasized in my house and at prep school. My Dad (ISXj) was a scholarship athlete, and encouraged us to be like that... I played a lot of sports--football, lacrosse, some seasons basketball... I liked sports, but always knew that there was stuff (esp. Ne & Fi) I couldn't show a lot of ppl--teammates, coaches, my dorm masters... I was pretty sure they'd think I was a pussy, or emo or something. (It sounds stupid writing it now, I know, but other ppl's opinions meant a lot to me at that time... I didn't want to be made fun of for being myself... It kinda sucked.) I compensated by becoming overly aggressive and 'tough' acting.

This changed when I moved to Europe to start higher ed... For the first time, I was away from everyone who had expectations of me acting a certain way. I started becoming myself--Ne and Fi were freely expressed for the first time.

ENFp guys in America: our particular strengths make some (esp. other guys) wary. Ne is sometimes perceived as intellectually threatening--either too out-there or too smart. Fi is perceived as girly--that or 'smoothness,' something that could be used to steal someone's girlfriend...

In my experience--I've lived many places coast-to-coast and abroad--there are considerably fewer male ENFps than female... BTW, putting on an air of toughness can is something I've noticed from Deltas, (esp. ENFps and ISTps.)

[JuJu]

Do a Google search for "John Rocker." I get the feeling JuJu will type him as an ENFp. If you look at his pictures, there's a certain intensity to him. Also, he isn't afraid of making controversial statements.

Jason

What's up Jason--yeah, you're right, John Rocker does seem ENXp to me--can't tell his quadra values for sure.... Haven't found a very good interview yet. Here's one where he talks about fake boobs haha

http://youtube.com/watch?v=v_aGZFU8eYs

Is that what Niednagel typed him..? I couldn't believe the correlation after you pointed that out! It's nuts.

[Sirena]

I'll be honest... When I was younger (teens) I altered my behavior (emphasized Se) to be 'one of the guys'... It took effort and ultimately it sucked. When friends, girls, whomever liked me, they usually liked the front... I mean, I dated a lot of girls who didn't really know my true personality... I dated A LOT too, just to show off, (i.e. get w/ the hottest girl,) and played a lot of sports, (who was best,) same reason...

I was trying to prove myself, and not acting true to my real personality... It was a waste of the person I actually was. This is not a sad story--a lot of ppl do this, I think, (to some degree.) I learned a lesson.

Se had always been emphasized in my house and at prep school. My Dad (ISXj) was a scholarship athlete, and encouraged us to be like that... I always played a lot of sports--football, lacrosse, some seasons basketball... I liked sports, but always knew that there was stuff (esp. Ne & Fi) I couldn't show a lot of ppl--teammates, coaches, my dorm masters... I was pretty sure they'd think I was a pussy, or emo or something. (It sounds stupid writing it now, I know, but other ppl's opinions meant a lot to me at that time... I didn't want to be made fun of for being myself... It kinda sucked.) I compensated by becoming overly aggressive and 'tough' acting.

This changed when I moved to Europe to start higher ed... For the first time, I was away from everyone who had expectations of me acting a certain way. I started becoming myself--Ne and Fi were freely expressed for the first time.

ENFp guys in America: our particular strengths make some (esp. other guys) wary. Ne is sometimes perceived as intellectually threatening--either too out-there or too smart. Fi is perceived as girly--that or 'smoothness,' something that could be used to steal someone's girlfriend...

In my experience--I've lived a lot of places coast-to-coast and abroad--there are considerably fewer male ENFps than female... BTW, putting on an air of toughness can is something I've noticed from a lot of Deltas, (esp. ENFps and ISTps.)

I think everything you say here is very valid. I can imagine how much tougher it would be to be a male ENFp. Glad you have allowed yourself to be who you are now!

[JuJu]

I think everything you say here is very valid. I can imagine how much tougher it would be to be a male ENFp. Glad you have allowed yourself to be who you are now!

I appreciate that.

[Rubicon]

I'll be honest... When I was younger (teens) I altered my behavior (emphasized Se) to be 'one of the guys'... It took effort and ultimately it sucked. When friends, girls, whomever liked me, they usually liked the front... I mean, I dated a lot of girls who didn't really know my true personality... I dated A LOT too, just to show off, (i.e. get w/ the hottest girl,) and played a lot of sports, (who was best,) same reason...

I was trying to prove myself, and not acting true to my real personality... It was a waste of the person I actually was. This is not a sad story--a lot of ppl do this, I think, (to some degree.) I learned a lesson.

Se had always been emphasized in my house and at prep school. My Dad (ISXj) was a scholarship athlete, and encouraged us to be like that... I played a lot of sports--football, lacrosse, some seasons basketball... I liked sports, but always knew that there was stuff (esp. Ne & Fi) I couldn't show a lot of ppl--teammates, coaches, my dorm masters... I was pretty sure they'd think I was a pussy, or emo or something. (It sounds stupid writing it now, I know, but other ppl's opinions meant a lot to me at that time... I didn't want to be made fun of for being myself... It kinda sucked.) I compensated by becoming overly aggressive and 'tough' acting. ENFp guys in America: our particular strengths make some (esp. other guys) wary. Ne is sometimes perceived as intellectually threatening--either too out-there or too smart. Fi is perceived as girly--that or 'smoothness,' something that could be used to steal someone's girlfriend...

My brother's ENFp, and he was pretty much himself until he went to uni. He was homeschooled though and had a dual and semi-dual as siblings. But anyway, he went to study in America and came back with this arrogant, macho image. We gave him a hard time about it, because we're generally a more SLI country I think. ("Just relax, man." ) He's back to his good old self now which is good. :-)

[xyz]

My brother's ENFp, and he was pretty much himself until he went to uni. He was homeschooled though and had a dual and semi-dual as siblings. But anyway, he went to study in America and came back with this arrogant, macho image. We gave him a hard time about it, because we're generally a more SLI country I think. ("Just relax, man." ) He's back to his good old self now which is good. :-)

Yeah I can see that it'd be pretty easy to get indoctrinated with that shit here.

[JuJu]

My brother's ENFp, and he was pretty much himself until he went to uni. He was homeschooled though and had a dual and semi-dual as siblings. But anyway, he went to study in America and came back with this arrogant, macho image. We gave him a hard time about it, because we're generally a more SLI country I think. ("Just relax, man." ) He's back to his good old self now which is good. :-)

haha, i would love to live in a SLI country, hell yeah! also, it would've been great to grow up w/ a dual or semi-dual... The best intertype relation i had growing up was my Mom as my benefactor... I think that they were baffled by me sometimes--probably a big reason i acted like i did.

[jason_m]

What's up Jason--yeah, you're right, John Rocker does seem ENXp to me--can't tell his quadra values for sure.... Haven't found a very good interview yet. Here's one where he talks about fake boobs haha

http://youtube.com/watch?v=v_aGZFU8eYs

Is that what Niednagel typed him..? I couldn't believe the correlation after you pointed that out! It's nuts.

It's so crazy that I didn't believe it for a short time and thought that you were pulling my chain. However, I've concluded that this wouldn't make sense. Brain typing and socionics are different systems. You wouldn't be using brain typing to type people and claim that it's their socionics type. And I trust you. My hunch says that you're an honest person.

My question is how do you do it? What do you look for in a person to discover their type? Did you know that Neidnagel also looks at how a person speaks to determine their type, not just motor movements? For example, IJs have more of a monotone way of speaking. Is this what you look for? It's just unfathomable how there is such a correlation, and it would be even crazier if you looked at completely different things than Niednagel in determining someone's type.

Jason

[JuJu]

It's so crazy that I didn't believe it for a short time and thought that you were pulling my chain. However, I've concluded that this wouldn't make sense. Brain typing and socionics are different systems. You wouldn't be using brain typing to type people and claim that it's their socionics type. And I trust you. My hunch says that you're an honest person.

My question is how do you do it? What do you look for in a person to discover their type? Did you know that Neidnagel also looks at how a person speaks to determine their type, not just motor movements? For example, IJs have more of a monotone way of speaking. Is this what you look for? It's just unfathomable how there is such a correlation, and it would be even crazier if you looked at completely different things than Niednagel in determining someone's type.

Jason

What's up Jason, how are you doin dude? Yeah, I'm not familiar with how to type someone using Brain Types... Niednagel indicates that BT is MBTI derived--in some ways it seems just as close to Socionics... I'd heard of "The Brain Doctor" before, just wasn't familiar with his typings of particular people...

What's compelling is the correlation btw the typings--you're right, it's "crazy!" When they don't correlate, they're usually close enough so that one could write it off as a 'judgment call' rather than 'incorrect...' It's nuts!!!

I'm very interested in how in Niednagel types ppl... There may be a correlation, or maybe it's a fluke. (A pretty crazy fluke haha.)

As to how I type... Unlike a lot of ppl on this forum, I'm not accurate unless I see a video/someone in-person... When I see a person's focus in conversation, their physical reactions to what's being said, their vocal emphasis, the way their eyes and countenance look... Yeah, I get a good idea of their type ... I used to type step-by-step, but now I don't--usually some characteristic will stand out to me, (e.g. John Rocker's Ne, Kendrick Perkins IP temperament, Kevin Garnett's Fi,) and then I'll investigate the possibilities from there... If nothing jumps out at me, usually I'll try to figure out the person's quadra values or temperament, and then get more specific.

Regardless, for me, it's important to get an accurate assessment of the real person, beneath whatever front that person may be projecting, (unlike e.g. Hitta, or some old Russian socionists, who type by either stereotype or societal role.)

This is pretty interesting, for sure... If you know anything more about Niednagel's process, please let me know. -Justin

[jason_m]

What's up Jason, how are you doin dude? Yeah, I'm not familiar with how to type someone using Brain Types... Niednagel indicates that BT is MBTI derived--in some ways it seems just as close to Socionics... I'd heard of "The Brain Doctor" before, just wasn't familiar with his typings of particular people...

What's compelling is the correlation btw the typings--you're right, it's "crazy!" When they don't correlate, they're usually close enough so that one could write it off as a 'judgment call' rather than 'incorrect...' It's nuts!!!

I'm very interested in how in Niednagel types ppl... There may be a correlation, or maybe it's a fluke. (A pretty crazy fluke haha.)

As to how I type... Unlike a lot of ppl on this forum, I'm not accurate unless I see a video/someone in-person... When I see a person's focus in conversation, their physical reactions to what's being said, their vocal emphasis, the way their eyes and countenance look... Yeah, I get a good idea of their type ... I used to type step-by-step, but now I don't--usually some characteristic will stand out to me, (e.g. John Rocker's Ne, Kendrick Perkins IP temperament, Kevin Garnett's Fi,) and then I'll investigate the possibilities from there... If nothing jumps out at me, usually I'll try to figure out the person's quadra values or temperament, and then get more specific.

Regardless, for me, it's important to get an accurate assessment of the real person, beneath whatever front that person may be projecting, (unlike e.g. Hitta, or some old Russian socionists, who type by either stereotype or societal role.)

This is pretty interesting, for sure... If you know anything more about Niednagel's process, please let me know. -Justin

Niednagel uses something that's a little bit different. He looks at a person's motor movements. If they are rigid or mechanical, he types them as a J. If they are smooth or fluid he types them as a P. If a person shows strong grip in the hands - very good fine motor movements - he types them as an ST. If a person shows a lot of movement that stems from the big muscle groups of the body - gross motor skills - he types them as an SF. If a person shows less dominance, and more harmony between fine and gross motor skills, he types them as an NF. Finally, if someone shows no real gross motor skills to speak of, and a little bit of fine motor skill, he types them as an NT. As for the E/I preference, it's based on energy level. Extraverts expend more energy than introverts. (He can also type people based on speech patterns, but he hasn't made it clear how he does this.) Some of this is very similar to socionics, especially how he categorizes the J/P and E/I preferences.

Anyway, keep typing people. The fact that your types are so close to brain typing probably means that you're on to something and that you know what you're talking about.

Jason

[Exodus]

As to how I type... Unlike a lot of ppl on this forum, I'm not accurate unless I see a video/someone in-person... When I see a person's focus in conversation, their physical reactions to what's being said, their vocal emphasis, the way their eyes and countenance look... Yeah, I get a good idea of their type ...

Don't worry about it, it's much harder to type people on a forum/through text. It's a good sign that you recognize this.

[jason_m]

I used to type step-by-step, but now I don't--usually some characteristic will stand out to me, (e.g. John Rocker's Ne, Kendrick Perkins IP temperament, Kevin Garnett's Fi,) and then I'll investigate the possibilities from there... If nothing jumps out at me, usually I'll try to figure out the person's quadra values or temperament, and then get more specific.

Justin,

I was thinking about this, and I have another question: for the introverted types, does for example, Ni or Fi ever just jump out at you? If it does, I think it indicates that the theory behind brain typing is wrong; the socionics functions are a better representation than the MBTI functions that brain typing uses. Keep in mind that Niednagel typed people the way I described without even having to consider the underlying functions for years. He also correlates the functions with certain areas of the brain, but I think this is far from being proven true.

Jason