finding a topic to talk about with a dual

[Zero]

I find that talking about everyday life and people and feelings is really easy with a dual, you can keep the conversation for hours, but after a while you feel the conversation is pleasant but not very productive so when switching to a more serious topic, there lies the problem. I as a NT type want to talk about technology and science and new things I have read, ESIs as members of social club want to know about my friends, my life or problems with society, people being unethical etc. I love to be asked things but I don't like to be a person who has time to waste, or be seen as one. so it makes me anxious to find a topic that we both like and usually I feel like the conversation wasn't pleasant for the ESIs, since I am in a hurry to get to the next topic. Having nothing to offer is painful for me, so is being asked a question to which I don't know the answer!

I have also seen that EIIs don't enjoy LSE's technical conversations with other people, and can't join in because they don't have much to offer.

is this a problem for you guys as well?
since duals are such different people, It should naturally be difficult to find topics to talk about but somehow the conversations are enjoyable. but how to improve them?

[Tigerfadder]

I think you should go for your duals demonstrative, the Si+ in your case. Try to find something there. Look at model G if there is any ideas around there.

[Delilah]

LIE are topic generators, as well as great conversationalists well in all topics actually i doubt at least some of those topics aren't of interest to ESI, but yeah there are barriers. Anything in history or politics can easily be geared towards more Fi interests; Or are you just finding that duals you know are meeting you with blank stares on these topics as well?

Unless it's work related I zone out when things start getting too technical. Anyway, how about Macron, do you still think he is LIE ?

Edit: some things i've greatly enjoyed talking to Te-Ej include the military, military history, ethnic history, political futures, as well as my circle of friends since he knows some of them and actually always starts the conversation on that note - indeed he presses me more on this than i'd been willing to share sometimes but i've not minded! I forgot to mention theology. It is true however that the Te-Ej runs the conversation and i'd often found myself wondering whether what he is really looking for is a good contra-argument to keep him talking.

[Zero]

LIE are topic generators, as well as great conversationalists well in all topics actually i doubt at least some of those topics aren't of interest to ESI, but yeah there are barriers. Anything in history or politics can easily be geared towards more Fi interests; Or are you just finding that duals you know are meeting you with blank stares on these topics as well?

I usually don't accurately measure the level of other people's interest in what I'm saying, so that might be a problem, unless I get enlightened about the other's feelings in some way. Politics, history, theology and sociology I usually have something to say about but I don't consider myself well read on those topics so I stay quite and listen more than talk, which gives the impression that I'm an introvert but actually I just don't want to be factually inaccurate.
No wonder ESIs usually date or hang out with people from the history or political science faculty.

Unless it's work related I zone out when things start getting too technical.

Yes I think what you have in mind is a Si using ST conversation about cars and computers etc, that's boring for me as well.

Anyway, how about Macron, do you still think he is LIE ?

No that was a mistake but I like him

i'd often found myself wondering whether what he is really looking for is a good contra-argument to keep him talking.

Don't LIEs look like they're arguing even when they're simply explaining something or talking?

[Tallmo]

You have to let the chemistry work on you. After some time you will change a little and be more compatible for your dual.

It's a process...

[Zero]

I think you should go for your duals demonstrative, the Si+ in your case. Try to find something there. Look at model G if there is any ideas around there.

+Se = durability and resistance. This quadra is well capable of defending itself and its position. For them power is not easy to acquire, as to do this they must resist the volitional Beta quadra. However, once it is seized, they can hold on to it despite all attempts at restoration. Protectiveness, ability to defend themselves against all force, ability to keep that which was acquired - these are the principles that they respect. This quadra can be called the quadra of criticism and reforms. In contrast to the 'fire' Beta quadra, which is oriented primarily politically, this quadra is oriented more socially.

so this would mean joining the nagging about society and public services etc which ESIs are usually talking about, those things make so much sense but I feel like I should switch the conversation to something that will lift their mood, I feel like I must "drag them out of the dark mood" somehow, but criticizing doesn't help that, however it comes naturally to us. maybe I should just go with the flow and not worry. I should probably read more history and politics and classical literature books

[Tallmo]

I think being too theoretical about it is dangerous. You just have to meet like two human beings. Not worry too much and forget about Socionics.

You won't be able to talk about your own expert knowledge. But what works is common plans and projects. Things you do together.

Attractions helps.

Compatible subtype helps

But it can't be that hard because duals meet and get together all the time.

[Adam Strange]

+Se = durability and resistance. This quadra is well capable of defending itself and its position. For them power is not easy to acquire, as to do this they must resist the volitional Beta quadra. However, once it is seized, they can hold on to it despite all attempts at restoration. Protectiveness, ability to defend themselves against all force, ability to keep that which was acquired - these are the principles that they respect. This quadra can be called the quadra of criticism and reforms. In contrast to the 'fire' Beta quadra, which is oriented primarily politically, this quadra is oriented more socially.

so this would mean joining the nagging about society and public services etc which ESIs are usually talking about, those things make so much sense but I feel like I should switch the conversation to something that will lift their mood, I feel like I must "drag them out of the dark mood" somehow, but criticizing doesn't help that, however it comes naturally to us. maybe I should just go with the flow and not worry. I should probably read more history and politics and classical literature books

This interest taken by ESI's in society and politics is an interesting observation which I never consciously noticed before, but which, in retrospect, is very true. I've had many separate discussions with an ESI male and an ESI female about social injustice and how it needs to be corrected, and I never have these discussions with other types.

In fact, it goes back to the first time I, after learning Socionics, ever had a convo with an ESI. I had seen some art I wanted to buy on display in a library, and I tracked down the artist and told her I wanted to commission her to make some art for me. She suggested we meet to discuss this in a downtown coffee shop. I arrived first, and when she approached the table, she had long blond hair, looked like a woman's basketball player, was wearing short short cutoffs and sandals and a thin knit top with string straps. I was suddenly terrified and I thought Oh My God We Have Nothing In Common And This Will All Go Seriously Wrong Because I'm Going To Say Some LIE Thing Which I Won't Even Notice But Which Will Totally Offend Her And She's Going To Throw The Coffee In My Face And Call The Cops.
But instead, we ended up talking about the role of Art in Roman and Medieval social and political movements for two hours, and she was right with me on this, and when she left, I wondered if I had just had coffee with a dual?

[Saoirse]

I like the fire in their eyes when LSEs start talking about tech, politics, law, etc. I think my suggestive Te makes me: (1) like learning from their Te, and (2) eager to show what Te strength I have and be reassured it's something I'm decent at. Seeing their Te in full force makes me like/admire them more too. But you're right that these aren't natural topics for me, with which I am fully at ease and in the flow. If it goes on for too long, I will start zoning out.

Having nothing to offer is painful for me, so is being asked a question to which I don't know the answer!

This is in reference to when ESIs start bringing up Fi topics? Personally, when I bring up Fi topics, I just want to see that Fi is valued--I'm not judging the other person for their strength or lack thereof at it. I just want to understand how the person relates to others. It's rather endearing if weakness at and appreciation of Fi is shown. Perhaps LxE doesn't like to show any weakness, but ExI would like to know there's something we can do for you (though, be careful... unhealthy ExI can be cruel so I'm not necessarily recommending showing weakness without discretion).

I suppose it would be hard to find a topic where both types feel completely at ease, since we are most at ease with our own lead IEs, but alternating between the two sets of topics seems like a natural and balanced way of getting closer.

[Tigerfadder]

+Se = durability and resistance. This quadra is well capable of defending itself and its position. For them power is not easy to acquire, as to do this they must resist the volitional Beta quadra. However, once it is seized, they can hold on to it despite all attempts at restoration. Protectiveness, ability to defend themselves against all force, ability to keep that which was acquired - these are the principles that they respect. This quadra can be called the quadra of criticism and reforms. In contrast to the 'fire' Beta quadra, which is oriented primarily politically, this quadra is oriented more socially.

so this would mean joining the nagging about society and public services etc which ESIs are usually talking about, those things make so much sense but I feel like I should switch the conversation to something that will lift their mood, I feel like I must "drag them out of the dark mood" somehow, but criticizing doesn't help that, however it comes naturally to us. maybe I should just go with the flow and not worry. I should probably read more history and politics and classical literature books

No Si+

[Skepsis]

Cut to the chase and just have sex.

[Chae]

Cut to the chase and just have sex.

I know this was more like a funny remark yet generally, it's more sensually enjoyable if there's romantic compatibility and what I call "mental intimacy" prior to that. That's why conversation is the way to go. Even if there's duality, you gotta get under the person's skin entirely, to see their preferences and inclinations. Without it, sexual quality declines strongly, a thousand issues come up on either side. When you cut to the chase, it's a deal with the devil since you're missing out on the good juice Gotta uncover all that potential as a first step verbally, then you get the maximum out of the physical. The stronger the attachment, the better the bang. Love first - lust second, it works out better in this order I rec this particularly to the OP.

[Tigerfadder]

Why aint this in intertype relation forum?

[Skepsis]

Duality is the cello and the piano playing a song together. Different instruments in harmony.

[Number 9 large]

I know this was more like a funny remark yet generally, it's more sensually enjoyable if there's romantic compatibility and what I call "mental intimacy" prior to that. That's why conversation is the way to go. Even if there's duality, you gotta get under the person's skin entirely, to see their preferences and inclinations. Without it, sexual quality declines strongly, a thousand issues come up on either side. When you cut to the chase, it's a deal with the devil since you're missing out on the good juice Gotta uncover all that potential as a first step verbally, then you get the maximum out of the physical. The stronger the attachment, the better the bang. Love first - lust second, it works out better in this order I rec this particularly to the OP.

you can bang someone and get to know them better afterwards

[Zero]

No Si+

actually ESI's Si is interesting. I have heard many times they say they like to be brought out of their thoughts and to enjoy the moment, for this reason I have seen them admiring SLI and IEE and even SEE, I was on another thread now, again I read that an ESI had written they simply want to be in the moment. LIEs focus on the future and have Si polr.
I wonder how finding something in dual's demonstrative function can be helpful?

[Zero]

I mean I enjoy IEE's Ne talks about their theories and ideas but after a while I get very bored. and with ILE conversations are always short and no matter how much we talk, the large psychological distance is kept untouched

[Adam Strange]

actually ESI's Si is interesting. I have heard many times they say they like to be brought out of their thoughts and to enjoy the moment, for this reason I have seen them admiring SLI and IEE and even SEE, I was on another thread now, again I read that an ESI had written they simply want to be in the moment. LIEs focus on the future and have Si polr.
I wonder how finding something in dual's demonstrative function can be helpful?

So ESI's wish to live in the present? Might they say something like this phrase, which I captured from some place I can't remember?:

"I dream of a life in which I can live entirely in the present, no longer constantly looking back and hoping to go forward. In the meantime, I make smoothies every morning and try to coax my hair into an acceptable style." - ESI

Lol.

[ashlesha]

Anybody under stress might be worrying too much (future) or dwelling too much (past) but living in the past and future is associated with intuition wrt socionics.

[wasp]

well today I can safely say that I don't belong to the gamma quadra.

I have a strong preference for Ne-leads and Si-leads - books, movies, aspirations, feelings, thoughts, whatever strikes our fancy. But in general, I'd probably talk to anyone about anything. Not a bad listener either - people love it when you give them opportunities to discuss themselves and their interests and hobbies, especially if you're curious and attentive. Just ask them questions and eventually you'll get lucky and unearth a commonality.

But even if you don't find a commonality, you may still learn a thing or two. Just be yourself and have fun, etc etc.

[Number 9 large]

Anybody under stress might be worrying too much (future) or dwelling too much (past) but living in the past and future is associated with intuition wrt socionics.

Yea so basically all intuitive types asre stressed out little bitches who have nothing to do right now

[ashlesha]

Yea so basically all intuitive types asre stressed out little bitches who have nothing to do right now

Sux2bu!

[Olimpia]

Talk about the weather. If they still like you afterwards, they must be your Dual. Capture them safely. Don't forget to feed them. Talk with them only via messaging apps. Let your bodies talk in the bedroom. Good luck.

[Simo]

I feel like I should switch the conversation to something that will lift their mood, I feel like I must "drag them out of the dark mood" somehow, but criticizing doesn't help that

good luck with this. I actually I think there are two types of people who have dark mood the first is just in a dark mood because of their current circumstances so if you can change their circumstances you can drag them out of the dark mood the rest however kind of like or romanticize having dark mood if that is the case you are out of luck & have to either get used to it or end the relationship

[Simo]

Talk about the weather. If they still like you afterwards, they must be your Dual.

this is exactly my idea you thief

[Zero]

good luck with this. I actually I think there are two types of people who have dark mood the first is just in a dark mood because of their current circumstances so if you can change their circumstances you can drag them out of the dark mood the rest however kind of like or romanticize having dark mood if that is the case you are out of luck & have to either get used to it or end the relationship

good point, I think a lot of ESIs romanticize the dark mood and the whole point of duality is to test and see if someone tries to bring them out of that state, however they always return