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Thread: Difference between Each Socionics Information Element and MBTI function.

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    Default Difference between Each Socionics Information Element and MBTI function.

    Information Elements:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/280-Socionics-Information-Elements-Descriptions-by-Functions

    MBTI cognitive functions:
    Extraverted Sensing is what happens when you pay attention to what your 5 senses (touch, taste, smell, hearing, seeing) are telling you about the real world. It's a real time process that is happening now.
    So if you pay attention to a sound coming from a bird just outside your door, that's your brain using it's extraverted sensing function to pay attention to the sound.
    Introverted Sensing is when you remember the sound of a bird that you heard last week. Because you are paying attention to the memory of it in your mind, rather than the real live event.
    Extraverted Intuiting is when you see several possible futures. It's when you do rapid fire brainstorm. It's when you see connections and patterns between people and events.
    Introverted Intuiting is when you get insights that seem to come from nowhere. It's when you have those "aha" moments.

    Extraverted Thinking is making decisions about the external world using objective facts.
    Introverted Thinking is making decisions based on data, categories, and theories inside your mind.
    Extraverted Feeling is making decisions based on a value system that is concerned with the well being of people. These values are more global and cultural than personal.
    Introverted Feeling is about making decisions based on your personal values and being concerned more with how things impact you personally than how the group is impacted.

    some comparisons:

    Si in MBTI is more about "the past" and "memories" while in socionics, Si is "the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail"
    Se in MBTI is sensing the environment via 5 senses, without much force on objects or people, which is more like the socionics Si, Se in socionics is ability to attain high level of awareness of the physical aspects of one's reality, to know how much physical force or power is latent or required, to be able to accurately estimate properties of material sort. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push concrete situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to subjectively assess the situation one is in.

    and things like that.

    I found this link which is slightly related to the topic but not helpful: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...onics-and-MBTI

    Also about the general definition of information aspects and cognitive functions, what are the key differences?

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    When so called functions are strong they are more or less mixed.

    I think they are useful but not true representations of reality.

    How I like to think about it:
    introverted functions are "abstract/subjective"
    extroverted functions are "concrete/objective"

    In this context the usage of abstract vs concrete is quite different from actual thinking patterns of humans if we think they can besaid to be either abstract or concrete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Also about the general definition of information aspects and cognitive functions, what are the key differences?
    This is a very difficult question to answer. Jung's concept of what a cognitive function is was very vague, sort of a mishmash of 1) a type of person 2) a mental process or a behavior 3) a category of information or "stuff". Myers-Briggs functions seem to be a mishmash of 2 and 3 while superficially acknowledging that every type uses multiple functions, so they can't be the same. MBTI is mostly based on dichotomies anyway.

    Augusta made the situation better by clearly delineating #3, the part that is independent of the individual, as the "information aspect", something that is perceived by the psyche to varying degrees depending on the type. However she also used a concept of an "element of information metabolism" which is supposedly the faculty that is responsible for acquiring the information, but it ends up looking like #2. In my opinion each aspect has a mental process (of acquiring the information) as well as a goal or evaluation associated with it, and is therefore linked to certain goal-oriented behaviors.

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    Socionics makes more sense. Mbti is so vague.

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    Why not combine both meaning? They look complementary. Such as Si in MBTI is about memorise and draw knowledge from one's memory. IE in Socionics doesn't cover this part? And Se in MBTI: sensing the environment via 5 senses. Isn't it what people do sometimes? But IE in Socionics doesn't cover that?

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    Thank you for answering my questions Andreas. I don't know there are any systems in MBTI…What are they? You said MBTI covers information products, and Socionics cover information process, so they are different and therefor can't simply combined makes sense to me. Do you think MBTI covers all the information products humans can produce, and Socionics cover all the information processes humans can do?

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    I see this as pointless. Mbti functions is just a confusing combination of the real functions that socionics has mapped and some vague generalisations of behaviour.

    Myerbriggs read jung but they misunderstood some things. Socionics did it right and they were able to build the system of functions that we all can observe in real life.

    I am a little irritated that people keep comparing mbti and socionics. Mbti is just wrong. There is no such function as Si "comparing with the past" for example. They just didnt understand Jung and they made something up.

    Socionics gives us all the hints needed to see that they got it right. Its time to bury myersbriggs once and for all.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I see this as pointless. Mbti functions is just a confusing combination of the real functions that socionics has mapped and some vague generalisations of behaviour.

    Myerbriggs read jung but they misunderstood some things. Socionics did it right and they were able to build the system of functions that we all can observe in real life.

    I am a little irritated that people keep comparing mbti and socionics. Mbti is just wrong. There is no such function as Si "comparing with the past" for example. They just didnt understand Jung and they made something up.

    Socionics gives us all the hints needed to see that they got it right. Its time to bury myersbriggs once and for all.
    actually the point of doing this comparison is reaching a final conclusion of which theory is explaining things better, with evidence, and having good reason to erase the other theory. I also agree that MBTI is not helpful and is ruining the potential and reputation of information metabolism and socionics in the scientific sense. anywhere you talk about personality type people start remembering MBTI and then judging how ridiculous it is. the purpose of comparison is to draw a clear line between these theories, which would therefore prevent future mistakes

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    What is the difference between Possibilities and Hypothesis & Imaginations and Predictions? That sounds like the same thing to me. Imaginations are Possibilities and Hypothesis can be Predictions..

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    and is Se basically changing the actual environment itself and Si is adapting yourself to the environment and not actually changing it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceynyc View Post
    and is Se basically changing the actual environment itself and Si is adapting yourself to the environment and not actually changing it?
    But then why are SLIs and SEIs such good designers and artists? Maybe they make things that would make aesthetic sense to them. (if you mean socionics functions)
    Last edited by Zero; 08-24-2017 at 06:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceynyc View Post
    What is the difference between Possibilities and Hypothesis & Imaginations and Predictions? That sounds like the same thing to me. Imaginations are Possibilities and Hypothesis can be Predictions..
    I have seen that Ne creative types, create new possibilities for themselves or others, while not considering the future implications of taking such an idea and actually putting it in action, while Ni creative types like to play with time and predict future outcomes of current decisions being made and seeing patterns in trends and mostly technology and where the money is going from the LIE point of view.
    Maybe it is good to consider the difference between Ni vulnerable types LSE and ESE and compare them to Ne vulnerable types, ESI and LSI, while Ni PoLR types have trouble guessing the future impacts of their current actions or current state, but try to fix things at the moment to prevent from those unpleasant implications in the future, Ne PoLR types, have trouble in seeing potential, in opportunities and people.

    But in the MBTI sense everything is explained so superficially and repeated so many times that I'd doubt even Katharine Briggs and Isabel Myers themselves fully knew in depth what they were suggesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by air View Post
    Why not combine both meaning? They look complementary. Such as Si in MBTI is about memorise and draw knowledge from one's memory. IE in Socionics doesn't cover this part? And Se in MBTI: sensing the environment via 5 senses. Isn't it what people do sometimes? But IE in Socionics doesn't cover that?
    actually an EII once told me that Si in socionics, sensing things, is also remembering those senses, which in the long run would mean creating something like "sensory anchors" that would take them to the past and memories, but still not in the description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceynyc View Post
    and is Se basically changing the actual environment itself and Si is adapting yourself to the environment and not actually changing it?
    Actually you have some right in here... In the description of Si (as leading function ofc) we can read that it tends to adapt, but at the same time move from discomfort and focus more on personal needs instead of external conceptions of goals or achievement(Se).

    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i...on_elements/Si

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    But then why are SLIs and SEIs such good designers and artists? Maybe they make things that would make aesthetic sense to them. (if you mean socionics functions)
    @spaceynyc is correct at the abstract level. The way to think about this is that design and art involves generally subtle or nondestructive ways of modifying a physical space - like moving a chair or something. If you're talking about bulldozing a house then that would involve Se.

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    I wonder why these psychology theories differ from one another.

    There should be some kind of standard for this, and mbti should be willing to cooperate i think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idontgiveaf View Post
    I wonder why these psychology theories differ from one another.

    There should be some kind of standard for this, and mbti should be willing to cooperate i think.
    When you look at a can of soup from the top, you see a circle. When you look at it from the side, you see a rectangle. So, which is it, Beef Stew or Noodle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When you look at a can of soup from the top, you see a circle. When you look at it from the side, you see a rectangle. So, which is it, Beef Stew or Noodle?
    I will not judge it yet until i see the side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When you look at a can of soup from the top, you see a circle. When you look at it from the side, you see a rectangle. So, which is it, Beef Stew or Noodle?
    so you are interested in post modern philosophy and don't believe in an objective truth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When you look at a can of soup from the top, you see a circle. When you look at it from the side, you see a rectangle. So, which is it, Beef Stew or Noodle?
    You have to figure out how it's not a circle and not a rectangle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    so you are interested in post modern philosophy and don't believe in an objective truth?
    He never implied that

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