Differences between Te-seeking and Se-seeking?

[Hermit Soul]

SLE. But that could just be because I am an EII and most SLEs hate me. They put me down in the same way; by being overtly hostile and making me the butt of every joke, criticise and discredit me to others... half the time I didn't know if it had to do with type or if the ones I have encountered were just flamin' misogynists.

The LSEs hostility tends to be more passive aggressive. They'll troll you in a smug way, it's not as intimidating. It's actually somewhat naive.

Oh...I guess I've mistyped that SLE into LSE, lol. xD

What you wrote here does sound very much like that SLE that I encountered last year. They hate me and would constantly act aggressive toward me by putting me down all the time. That SLE actually told me that my IQ exist on a different level as them and they have such a hard time communicating with me, they also told me that hearing me talk makes them feel like falling asleep and they would cut me off halfway whenever I am speaking, so I decide to keep quiet whenever I'm around them since they hate hearing me speak lol, and then they continue to pick on me again and ask me why I'm always so quiet. They just seemed to shoot their mouth off constantly without sparing a thought about how those comments would affect others. Damn, I feel so insulted by those comments.
I keep treating them with respect, but they keep treating me like trash.
SLE would really make sense for their type, because they don't seem to value Fi, they don't really follow that "golden rule" when it comes to treating people. You can treat them nicely, but they still continue to treat you like garbage. I don't think LSEs would do this, since they value Fi and they probably follow the "golden rule" when it comes to treating people, e.g., "Do unto others the way you want others to do unto you."

If SLE is my conflictor and if I'm an EII, then this would explain why I don't feel any conflictor vibes with my current LSE and LIE boss, because one is my duality and the other is my semi-duality, lol. My current LSE and LIE bosses have used Te on me a couple of times, whenever I make any mistakes in my work, they would make sure to correct me, and they would often give me a bunch of advice about how to work more efficiently. But as far as I know, they have always been very kind toward me and they haven't put me down in any ways so far, they haven't made me feel disrespected, they haven't made me feel insulted the way that SLE did.

[Adam Strange]

Oh...I guess I've mistyped that SLE into LSE, lol. xD

What you wrote here does sound very much like that SLE that I encountered last year. They hate me and would constantly act aggressive toward me by putting me down all the time. That SLE actually told me that my IQ exist on a different level as them and they have such a hard time communicating with me, they also told me that hearing me talk makes them feel like falling asleep and they would cut me off halfway whenever I am speaking, so I decide to keep quiet whenever I'm around them since they hate hearing me speak lol, and then they continue to pick on me again and ask me why I'm always so quiet. They just seemed to shoot their mouth off constantly without sparing a thought about how those comments would affect others. Damn, I feel so insulted by those comments.
I keep treating them with respect, but they keep treating me like trash.
SLE would really make sense for their type, because they don't seem to value Fi, they don't really follow that "golden rule" when it comes to treating people. You can treat them nicely, but they still continue to treat you like garbage. I don't think LSEs would do this, since they value Fi and they probably follow the "golden rule" when it comes to treating people, e.g., "Do unto others the way you want others to do unto you."

If SLE is my conflictor and if I'm an EII, then this would explain why I don't feel any conflictor vibes with my current LSE and LIE boss, because one is my duality and the other is my semi-duality, lol. My current LSE and LIE bosses have used Te on me a couple of times, whenever I make any mistakes in my work, they would make sure to correct me, and they would often give me a bunch of advice about how to work more efficiently. But as far as I know, they have always been very kind toward me and they haven't put me down in any ways so far, they haven't made me feel disrespected, they haven't made me feel insulted the way that SLE ex-boss of mine did.

@Hermit Soul, let me describe the way I see the EII secretary I work with. This may help you understand how LIE's see EII's.

She is smart, sensible, wise, industrious, exact, hard working, reliable, gives me the best business advice of any type so far (ESI's give me better personal advice, but never give me business advice), always dresses well and I can take her to lunch anywhere on any day she has free and didn't bring her lunch, and her office is the most tastefully decorated of all the offices. The company would be incredibly screwed if she left.

I also do not have the hots for her at all, which is weird because she is objectively attractive. I kind of think of her as a guy, but she's feminine. I guess an LSE might have a different opinion in this particular area.

[Hermit Soul]

@Hermit Soul, let me describe the way I see the EII secretary I work with. This may help you understand how LIE's see EII's.

She is smart, sensible, wise, industrious, exact, hard working, reliable, gives me the best business advice of any type so far (ESI's give me better personal advice, but never give me business advice), always dresses well and I can take her to lunch anywhere on any day she has free and didn't bring her lunch, and her office is the most tastefully decorated of all the offices. The company would be incredibly screwed if she left.

I also do not have the hots for her at all, which is weird because she is objectively attractive. I kind of think of her as a guy, but she's feminine. I guess an LSE might have a different opinion in this particular area.

Lol, I consider myself a feminine tomboy. I'm feminine in my appearance and the way I present myself in general but I'm tomboyish in the way I think.

I don't really like shopping, make-up, and all those girly stuff. So I think I'm able to see why you think of the EII secretary as a guy, lol.

And I do have a strong workaholic side to me. I believe in working hard and in playing hard. Whenever I'm busy working, I often end up forgetting to eat and skipping my meals altogether.. xD

[velveteen]

Oh...I guess I've mistyped that SLE into LSE, lol. xD

What you wrote here does sound very much like that SLE that I encountered last year. They hate me and would constantly act aggressive toward me by putting me down all the time. That SLE actually told me that my IQ exist on a different level as them and they have such a hard time communicating with me, they also told me that hearing me talk makes them feel like falling asleep and they would cut me off halfway whenever I am speaking, so I decide to keep quiet whenever I'm around them since they hate hearing me speak lol, and then they continue to pick on me again and ask me why I'm always so quiet. They just seemed to shoot their mouth off constantly without sparing a thought about how those comments would affect others. Damn, I feel so insulted by those comments.
I keep treating them with respect, but they keep treating me like trash.
SLE would really make sense for their type, because they don't seem to value Fi, they don't really follow that "golden rule" when it comes to treating people. You can treat them nicely, but they still continue to treat you like garbage. I don't think LSEs would do this, since they value Fi and they probably follow the "golden rule" when it comes to treating people, e.g., "Do unto others the way you want others to do unto you."

If SLE is my conflictor and if I'm an EII, then this would explain why I don't feel any conflictor vibes with my current LSE and LIE boss, because one is my duality and the other is my semi-duality, lol. My current LSE and LIE bosses have used Te on me a couple of times, whenever I make any mistakes in my work, they would make sure to correct me, and they would often give me a bunch of advice about how to work more efficiently. But as far as I know, they have always been very kind toward me and they haven't put me down in any ways so far, they haven't made me feel disrespected, they haven't made me feel insulted the way that SLE did.

Girl, it actually sounds like he was into you. SLEs tend to have a mindset of a 6 y/o child, they're little boys who are mean to the girls they like and choose the one that can keep up with them. It's just not attractive when they're in the early 30s and still doing this. People would defend this certain SLE I knew saying he was mean to everyone he actually liked and he sort of was quite ruthless to just about anyone he grew close to, but it seemed obvious it had nothing to do with him liking them. Lol. Being hostile is not loving behaviour, imo, especially when it reaches far beyond the realm of a simple "jest". I never really felt insulted by his behaviour, though, probably because I was very self-aware by the time I met him and didn't care what people thought of me. More than anything I felt bad for him because he has no goddamn filter and couldn't maintain diplomatic relationships with people, and I'm no IEI so getting through to him was very difficult. He also seemed quite self-aware but unable to change.

But I have worked with this SLE, too, he's actually very smart and quick on his feet. He's resourceful and efficient. He can also easily point out what you are doing wrong and correct you on the spot and I've always appreciated that because I have a tendency to overthink. But objectively speaking, he does it in a dipshit kind of way and it turns most people off because it's intimidating. He makes you feel stupid and incompetent, questions your intelligence and then wonders why no one wants to learn from him, despite him being higher than average intelligence and actually quite helpful when he's not wasting your time by being an insecure dick.

LSEs make for more natural teachers because I think they genuinely enjoy teaching you and it doesn't feel like they are trying to dominate you. But the one I have experience with also has a vibe of arrogance about him, but it's far less aggressive and more pompous. Like "Oh, that's quite easy, let me show you. Haha, I can't believe you didn't know how that worked. Haha.".

[epheme]

That SLE actually told me that my IQ exist on a different level as them and they have such a hard time communicating with me, they also told me that hearing me talk makes them feel like falling asleep and they would cut me off halfway whenever I am speaking, so I decide to keep quiet whenever I'm around them since they hate hearing me speak lol, and then they continue to pick on me again and ask me why I'm always so quiet.

This sounds like playful teasing. The bolded is actually a compliment. Maybe you were reading the situation wrong?

[Stellafera]

People would defend this certain SLE I knew saying he was mean to everyone he actually liked and he sort of was quite ruthless to just about anyone he grew close to, but it seemed obvious it had nothing to do with him liking them. Lol. Being hostile is not loving behaviour, imo, especially when it reaches far beyond the realm of a simple "jest". I never really felt insulted by his behaviour, though, probably because I was very self-aware by the time I met him and didn't care what people thought of me. More than anything I felt bad for him because he has no goddamn filter and couldn't maintain diplomatic relationships with people, and I'm no IEI so getting through to him was very difficult. He also seemed quite self-aware but unable to change.

But I have worked with this SLE, too, he's actually very smart and quick on his feet. He's resourceful and efficient. He can also easily point out what you are doing wrong and correct you on the spot and I've always appreciated that because I have a tendency to overthink. But objectively speaking, he does it in a dipshit kind of way and it turns most people off because it's intimidating. He makes you feel stupid and incompetent, questions your intelligence and then wonders why no one wants to learn from him, despite him being higher than average intelligence and actually quite helpful when he's not wasting your time by being an insecure dick.

LSEs make for more natural teachers because I think they genuinely enjoy teaching you and it doesn't feel like they are trying to dominate you. But the one I have experience with also has a vibe of arrogance about him, but it's far less aggressive and more pompous. Like "Oh, that's quite easy, let me show you. Haha, I can't believe you didn't know how that worked. Haha.".

Urgh. As an IEI my response probably would've been

That's the wrong method of approach, if you're diplomatic you're going to get more results and maintain a quality reputation in the future. And, by the way... If you treat people close to you in this more diplomatic way, it makes it easier for them to see your good intentions. Just some tips so people see things the way you do.

But if he's not willing to accept criticism from the puny earthlings that surround his grand ego, it probably won't do much.

I feel like this book should be required reading for SLEs to compensate for weak Fi



You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you. [..] It is the individual who is not interested in his fellow men who has the greatest difficulties in life and provides the greatest injury to others. It is from among such individuals that all human failures spring.

[ooo]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/How-to-win-friends-and-influence-people.jpg[/IMG]

You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you. [..] It is the individual who is not interested in his fellow men who has the greatest difficulties in life and provides the greatest injury to others. It is from among such individuals that all human failures spring.

aw my dad (ILE) made me grow up reading all those kind of books <3 there were entire chapters about how to dress properly, right colours and all, in order to attract the right responses from others etc, all the tips for an effective communication, how to set goals and all....basically all the tips for success... lol makes me feel like a big disappointment for his big expectations, but I realize I've ever since been trying to apply many of those rules with people.. they make things more pleasent for sure.

[Hermit Soul]

Girl, it actually sounds like he was into you. SLEs tend to have a mindset of a 6 y/o child, they're little boys who are mean to the girls they like and choose the one that can keep up with them. It's just not attractive when they're in the early 30s and still doing this. People would defend this certain SLE I knew saying he was mean to everyone he actually liked and he sort of was quite ruthless to just about anyone he grew close to, but it seemed obvious it had nothing to do with him liking them. Lol. Being hostile is not loving behaviour, imo, especially when it reaches far beyond the realm of a simple "jest". I never really felt insulted by his behaviour, though, probably because I was very self-aware by the time I met him and didn't care what people thought of me. More than anything I felt bad for him because he has no goddamn filter and couldn't maintain diplomatic relationships with people, and I'm no IEI so getting through to him was very difficult. He also seemed quite self-aware but unable to change.

But I have worked with this SLE, too, he's actually very smart and quick on his feet. He's resourceful and efficient. He can also easily point out what you are doing wrong and correct you on the spot and I've always appreciated that because I have a tendency to overthink. But objectively speaking, he does it in a dipshit kind of way and it turns most people off because it's intimidating. He makes you feel stupid and incompetent, questions your intelligence and then wonders why no one wants to learn from him, despite him being higher than average intelligence and actually quite helpful when he's not wasting your time by being an insecure dick.

LSEs make for more natural teachers because I think they genuinely enjoy teaching you and it doesn't feel like they are trying to dominate you. But the one I have experience with also has a vibe of arrogance about him, but it's far less aggressive and more pompous. Like "Oh, that's quite easy, let me show you. Haha, I can't believe you didn't know how that worked. Haha.".

Lol I'm pretty sure they aren't into me, because 1) they are married 2) they are at least thrice my age 3) it's a "her" and she doesn't swing that way and 4) she is my ex-boss.

And this is why I think that she is mean toward me because she dislike me. Also, she sounds very much like the SLE that you mentioned in your 2nd paragraph, she likes to correct people but she does it in a dipshit kind of way that makes people feel dumb and incompetent. I actually don't mind people correcting me, as long as they don't do it in a nasty manner.

This sounds like playful teasing. The bolded is actually a compliment. Maybe you were reading the situation wrong?

Nah, I haven't read the situation wrong. It's not playful teasing. That behavior is actually called putting me down, and she did that because she hates me. I generally have good intuition about people, so I can tell the difference between someone saying mean words to me as a form of playful teasing vs someone saying mean words to me because they dislike me.
She happens to fall into the latter than the former. And why do I think so? Ok I'll give an example here.
Like there was one time when there is this customer who complained about me to my ex-boss, and my ex-boss didn't bother to listen to my explanation, but she immediately believed what that customer said about me.
Then my ex-boss went screaming at me, and told me that the only reason why she's still keeping me in that job is because I'm able to work evenings and she couldn't find anyone else who is willing to work evenings. I have never felt so humiliated in my entire life. I put in so much effort into my job and at the end of the day my efforts doesn't mean anything at all to my boss? And this is when I started realizing how much my boss actually hated me. She sees me as an eyesore. She'd rather believe what an outsider told her than to believe her own employees. She'd rather choose to listen to the story of that customer than to believe in my story. I'm so disappointed in her.

And this isn't the only incident. But there are other incidents where she would put me down too and treat me like crap. So this definitely isn't playful teasing, because she is mean toward me at least 90% of the time and she is only nice to me 10% of the time.

I'm still not very sure of her socionics type, but whatever type she is, she is definitely my conflictor in socionics.

[velveteen]

Nah, I haven't read the situation wrong. It's not playful teasing. That behavior is actually called putting me down, and she did that because she hates me. I generally have good intuition about people, so I can tell the difference between someone saying mean words to me as a form of playful teasing vs someone saying mean words to me because they dislike me.
She happens to fall into the latter than the former. And why do I think so? Ok I'll give an example here.
Like there was one time when there is this customer who complained about me to my ex-boss, and my ex-boss didn't bother to listen to my explanation, but she immediately believed what that customer said about me.
Then my ex-boss went screaming at me, and told me that the only reason why she's still keeping me in that job is because I'm able to work evenings and she couldn't find anyone else who is willing to work evenings. I have never felt so humiliated in my entire life. I put in so much effort into my job and at the end of the day my efforts doesn't mean anything at all to my boss? And this is when I started realizing how much my boss actually hated me. She sees me as an eyesore. She'd rather believe what an outsider told her than to believe her own employees. She'd rather choose to listen to the story of that customer than to believe in my story. I'm so disappointed in her.

And this isn't the only incident. But there are other incidents where she would put me down too and treat me like crap. So this definitely isn't playful teasing, because she is mean toward me at least 90% of the time and she is only nice to me 10% of the time.

I'm still not very sure of her socionics type, but whatever type she is, she is definitely my conflictor in socionics.

Sounds like your boss was taking their anger out on you, they might have had a lot going on in their life. While that's no excuse to be cruel to someone or publicly shame them, your boss's reaction doesn't actually sound normal.

While SLEs do tend to be hot tempered, they don't usually care enough to hold grudges like that unless you do whatever you did to make them mad repeatedly. The issues I have had working with my conflicting partner is that they'll ask for something, I'll do it, but differently to what they expect and they end up thinking I intended to sabotage their project. Both of us look like idiots to each other. Conflict partners should never do business together. It's hard enough just tolerating each other in general.

[FDG]

Nah, I haven't read the situation wrong. It's not playful teasing. That behavior is actually called putting me down, and she did that because she hates me. I generally have good intuition about people, so I can tell the difference between someone saying mean words to me as a form of playful teasing vs someone saying mean words to me because they dislike me.
She happens to fall into the latter than the former. And why do I think so? Ok I'll give an example here.
Like there was one time when there is this customer who complained about me to my ex-boss, and my ex-boss didn't bother to listen to my explanation, but she immediately believed what that customer said about me.
Then my ex-boss went screaming at me, and told me that the only reason why she's still keeping me in that job is because I'm able to work evenings and she couldn't find anyone else who is willing to work evenings. I have never felt so humiliated in my entire life. I put in so much effort into my job and at the end of the day my efforts doesn't mean anything at all to my boss? And this is when I started realizing how much my boss actually hated me. She sees me as an eyesore. She'd rather believe what an outsider told her than to believe her own employees. She'd rather choose to listen to the story of that customer than to believe in my story. I'm so disappointed in her.

And this isn't the only incident. But there are other incidents where she would put me down too and treat me like crap. So this definitely isn't playful teasing, because she is mean toward me at least 90% of the time and she is only nice to me 10% of the time.

I'm still not very sure of her socionics type, but whatever type she is, she is definitely my conflictor in socionics.

Tbh this seems to be more gamma SF behavior, ESI or SEE with excessively strong Se

[Stellafera]

aw my dad (ILE) made me grow up reading all those kind of books <3 there were entire chapters about how to dress properly, right colours and all, in order to attract the right responses from others etc, all the tips for an effective communication, how to set goals and all....basically all the tips for success... lol makes me feel like a big disappointment for his big expectations, but I realize I've ever since been trying to apply many of those rules with people.. they make things more pleasent for sure.

I wonder if he was projecting some of his own life onto you; "it would've blown my mind to read this kind of thing at your age".

For me a lot of the principles of How To Win Friends and Influence People felt common-sense (although I love that the book crystallizes them in a way I can remember and focus on) but it's pretty much a perfect companion for Ti egos. It presents being likeable as a means of effectively interacting with the world, but it also does so in a way that imparts some Fi wisdom. For example, it notes that practicing behaviors like being interested in other people, being appreciative, etc. is personally enriching and not just useful.

[Hermit Soul]

Sounds like your boss was taking their anger out on you, they might have had a lot going on in their life. While that's no excuse to be cruel to someone or publicly shame them, your boss's reaction doesn't actually sound normal.

While SLEs do tend to be hot tempered, they don't usually care enough to hold grudges like that unless you do whatever you did to make them mad repeatedly. The issues I have had working with my conflicting partner is that they'll ask for something, I'll do it, but differently to what they expect and they end up thinking I intended to sabotage their project. Both of us look like idiots to each other. Conflict partners should never do business together. It's hard enough just tolerating each other in general.

Yeah it's a nightmare for conflict partners to do business together. They will clash with each other on a daily basis, lol. I'm starting to think that my ex-boss might be an LSE, not SLE. But something I find weird is, why haven't I clash with my current LSE boss yet? Haha. I find that my current LSE boss can be a bit aloof at times, but she doesn't rub me the wrong way on a consistent basis like the way my LSE ex-boss does? My current LSE boss is like the softer version of LSEs, she's not very aggressive, although she can appear a bit aloof at times,
I suspect she is the Si subtype of LSE. My ex-boss is probably the Te subtype of LSE.

Tbh this seems to be more gamma SF behavior, ESI or SEE with excessively strong Se

I'm not sure if my ex-boss is a gamma SF though. She tends to nitpick me a lot about details. For example, there was one time when she told me to clean the shelf and of course I did as instructed and then she started getting angry at me and telling me that I cleaned it wrongly and she went all the way out to demonstrate to me how to clean that shelf and then she started asking me in a condescending manner if my parents have ever taught me how to clean a shelf before and then she started insulting my parents saying that they probably didn't know how to clean a shelf themselves.
Then there was another time when she told me to help pour away the rubbish from the rubbish bin. Ok so I did that, and then she started nitpicking me again saying that I don't know how to pour rubbish. That is Si that I'm seeing, right? She is so nitpicky about sensory details.
I don't think gamma SFs would get so nitpicky about how to clean a shelf and how to pour rubbish? She seems to value Si. I actually wonder if she is LSE. If I'm an IEI and she is an LSE, this would explain why I clashed so much with her.

[FDG]

I don't think thinking types are likely to become so crazy about a specific employee, it's one of their few "strong" points in dealing with people.

[ooo]

I wonder if he was projecting some of his own life onto you; "it would've blown my mind to read this kind of thing at your age".

For me a lot of the principles of How To Win Friends and Influence People felt common-sense (although I love that the book crystallizes them in a way I can remember and focus on) but it's pretty much a perfect companion for Ti egos. It presents being likeable as a means of effectively interacting with the world, but it also does so in a way that imparts some Fi wisdom. For example, it notes that practicing behaviors like being interested in other people, being appreciative, etc. is personally enriching and not just useful.

Yes yes, he was projecting his ideals on me, because he used to be a sociology professor and tried to push some of those societal values onto me... but it was fine, those books can be really useful, as you've noticed I've always been this super shy, asocial, bullied little girl... he was trying to give me some weapons I guess, it worked ( a bit) How to get out of shyness in the bolded sentence of yours, works too -)

[Myst]

I've always fell for SLE types honestly, and they didn't look like conflicting situations, conflictors are our opposites such as duals are too. The problems started in the long run, because indeed, we value different things, although in the beginning it looked like it was all that I (or him) wasmissing, but indeed, there was more under the surface.
I can't live all my time with someone pushing me to do-do-do, I very much prefer someone who makes me think-think-think

That's interesting. Te isn't really about think-think-think, that's more Ti.


As for thread OP, Te moves things for productivity and Se moves things just to get things.

[Myst]

For me a lot of the principles of How To Win Friends and Influence People felt common-sense (although I love that the book crystallizes them in a way I can remember and focus on) but it's pretty much a perfect companion for Ti egos. It presents being likeable as a means of effectively interacting with the world, but it also does so in a way that imparts some Fi wisdom. For example, it notes that practicing behaviors like being interested in other people, being appreciative, etc. is personally enriching and not just useful.

I think Fe HA already knows those things about being likeable. That's what Fe HA is pretty much about. As a Ti ego, just going to give my pov here, but it's not really the perfect companion for me, I mean, I saw that book before but I don't think I can focus in that way it talks about. I'm interested in other people but not in that way of explicitly practicing behaviours for it.

[ooo]

That's interesting. Te isn't really about think-think-think, that's more Ti.


As for thread OP, Te moves things for productivity and Se moves things just to get things.

I think you're right! aha! I was thinking the same thing yesterday thinking of Bertrand For now I associate Te= books knowledge (data)... how would you describe it? : )

[Myst]

I think you're right! aha! I was thinking the same thing yesterday thinking of Bertrand For now I associate Te= books knowledge (data)... how would you describe it? : )

Taking the facts for use directly without giving it deeper critical thought in terms of logical analysis.

[ooo]

makes sense, seems like Se too

[Number 9 large]

I think you're right! aha! I was thinking the same thing yesterday thinking of Bertrand For now I associate Te= books knowledge (data)... how would you describe it? : )

Te is efficiency and productivity, and using knowledge and empirical data to do so

Se is about achieving an object of desire, no matter what

Ti is about ideological consistency

[Skepsis]

That's interesting. Te isn't really about think-think-think, that's more Ti.


As for thread OP, Te moves things for productivity and Se moves things just to get things.

I can't imagine Te ego not needing to think, think, think, or a Ti ego being unconcerned with productivity and efficiency.

[Tigerfadder]

I can't imagine Te ego not needing to think, think, think, or a Ti ego being unconcerned with productivity and efficiency.

But, all types got all the functions..

[Myst]

I can't imagine Te ego not needing to think, think, think, or a Ti ego being unconcerned with productivity and efficiency.

Tigerfadder answered this one already. Typology is about preferences. I'm not sure what made you think I was trying to imply otherwise.

[ooo]

what is it when I look for all the answers on books ? that's all I want to know

[Myst]

what is it when I look for all the answers on books ? that's all I want to know

Are you looking for facts or for clarity of understanding?

[ooo]

Are you looking for facts or for clarity of understanding?

Such a difficoult question. I look for both actually, but it's the former that brings to understanding.. In the books I read there's a lot of speculations and ungraspable things, all astro-logical, I guess that's why I'm so hooked, I want to figure out if all of that is true. In the meanwhile though there's the entire history of humankind, it's an endless reading, from mathematics to semiotic all at once... looking for a cause. I read and read to try connect all I obsess about. Strictly astrological facts in this field are priceless but even rare... real facts are important too, but must be connected in a new context, that is, understood, and that surely takes clarity... Idk lol both?

[Myst]

Such a difficoult question. I look for both actually, but it's the former that brings to understanding.. In the books I read there's a lot of speculations and ungraspable things, all astro-logical, I guess that's why I'm so hooked, I want to figure out if all of that is true. In the meanwhile though there's the entire history of humankind, it's an endless reading, from mathematics to semiotic all at once... looking for a cause. I read and read to try connect all I obsess about. Strictly astrological facts in this field are priceless but even rare... real facts are important too, but must be connected in a new context, that is, understood, and that surely takes clarity... Idk lol both?

Speculation and ungraspable things... sounds like intuitive stuff mostly. Yeah it's not clear from this if it's with Ti or Te.

[Skepsis]

Tigerfadder answered this one already. Typology is about preferences. I'm not sure what made you think I was trying to imply otherwise.

When you really think about it, Te and Ti are quite connected, and you really can't have one without the other. I'm not sure whose preferences they are. What prevents one from preferring both overtime? It could be context dependent. This is one of the things that irk me about typology, the idea that there can only be one preference because the typologist makes it so, as opposed to context dependent preferences that the individual recognizes. Where to draw the line, if any at all, is quite difficult.

[Skepsis]

But, all types got all the functions..

That is my point. It is difficult to determine preference based on presence of the function.

[Hermit Soul]

I don't think thinking types are likely to become so crazy about a specific employee, it's one of their few "strong" points in dealing with people.

I think you might be right afterall. I just figured out that my ex-boss is probably an ESI.

But definitely not SEE for her type though, I can't see her as my semi-duality. If she is an ethical type, ESI would be more fitting for her type. If she is an ESI, this means we have a relations of benefit, which is why we clashed so badly. I constantly feel like she is trying to give me a bunch of unsolicited advice about everything, I constantly feel like she is trying to change me instead of accepting me as who I am.
Our relationship is so one-sided whereby she would constantly act like a parent toward me, constantly correcting everything I say and do and trying to change everything about me.
ESIs often like pushing their Te on me, and they are constantly forcing a bunch of unsolicited advice onto me which rubs my Te PoLR the wrong way. And this is why we end up clashing so badly.
I happened to know 3 other ESIs and all 3 of them all act the same way too, they have this naysayer and overcritical attitude toward me and they would constantly try to "parent" me and would constantly put me down all the time, and I constantly find myself trying to please them but no matter what I do, it seems like I can never live up to their expectations.

Ironically, LSEs are supposed to be my conflictor, but I don't think I clashed with them as much as I clashed with ESIs. At least the LSEs leave me alone by myself and they don't try to "parent" me the way ESIs often does.

[FDG]

Our relationship is so one-sided whereby she would constantly act like a parent toward me, constantly correcting everything I say and do and trying to change everything about me.
ESIs often like pushing their Te on me, and they are constantly forcing a bunch of unsolicited advice onto me which rubs my Te PoLR the wrong way. And this is why we end up clashing so badly.
I happened to know 3 other ESIs and all 3 of them all act the same way too, they have this naysayer and overcritical attitude toward me and they would constantly try to "parent" me and would constantly put me down all the time, and I constantly find myself trying to please them but no matter what I do, it seems like I can never live up to their expectations.

SOME (far from all, perhaps some 5-10% who are really neurotic) ESIs are like that but they act like that with everyone.
Me, as their dual, I do not try to please them at all when they act like that. I simply ignore all their requests. I know, it drives them crazy - Strasevskaya whined about it a lot in her LIE descriptions - but it's the only way temper that behavior.

[squark]

That is my point. It is difficult to determine preference based on presence of the function.

Yes, it can be. Especially for instance in quasi-identicals because they have all the same strengths, and all the same weaknesses, so it can come down to looking at temperament (IJ vs IP and EJ vs EP) and value, and when you start looking at for instance how does this person react to Se and Fi vs how they react to Fe and Si you start seeing differences between the quasis if you weren't immediately able to tell the base function element. Usually though, it's not too hard to tell what their base is once you know them.

And of course elements work together, they aren't these glaring stand-alone features, and can seem more blurred together in some people than in others. Also, my own personal theory is that subtypes are not solid, that they shift with circumstances and environmental factors. Take an ILE for example - there will be situations and environments where Ne is very much needed or wanted and being in that environment they may be more "Ne subtype" but in other situations and environments they're going to need to use Ti far more, and so will be "Ti subtype" there. As you lean more on either base or creative, the relative use of the other elements also shift. (The reason for this can be seen if you break them back down into the aspects of reality - for example, can you focus both on the internal characteristics and the external movement of something to the same degree at the same time? Not really, but you can focus on the external movement and direction and relation of something to its environment all at the same time. Some aspects of things are just naturally easier to see all together than others, and it's that idea that models are based on)

[Myst]

When you really think about it, Te and Ti are quite connected, and you really can't have one without the other. I'm not sure whose preferences they are. What prevents one from preferring both overtime? It could be context dependent. This is one of the things that irk me about typology, the idea that there can only be one preference because the typologist makes it so, as opposed to context dependent preferences that the individual recognizes. Where to draw the line, if any at all, is quite difficult.

What prevents one from that, I suppose fundamental brain wiring. I do think it can be context dependent as to which one works better at a time so you can make yourself do the other approach too but the idea with valued functions is that your brain gets "rewarded" if they are focused on and it doesn't when it comes to devalued functions.

[The Exception]

Te seeking wants someone who will just do it without a second thought and not even have to be told that it needs to get done.

Se seeking wants someone who can get them to do it, by walking them through it and being able to jump in and correct anything the neophyte does wrong while learning.

Going by these descriptions, I'm probably more Te seeking than Fe seeking. I don't like being told what has to get done and I hate being corrected constantly when I'm doing something wrong. Depending on the task, I do prefer to be shown and walked through how to do it, not just having it done for me. I like to feel self-sufficient. I've noticed this more as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I mostly just preferred someone just went ahead and did it for me.

[Pookie]

Going by these descriptions, I'm probably more Te seeking than Fe seeking. I don't like being told what has to get done and I hate being corrected constantly when I'm doing something wrong. Depending on the task, I do prefer to be shown and walked through how to do it, not just having it done for me. I like to feel self-sufficient. I've noticed this more as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I mostly just preferred someone just went ahead and did it for me.

Te base can still be like that, and Fe base has that initiative to get it done too, just different realms of action. Fe will put more care into managing harshness.

[Myst]

Going by these descriptions, I'm probably more Te seeking than Fe seeking. I don't like being told what has to get done and I hate being corrected constantly when I'm doing something wrong. Depending on the task, I do prefer to be shown and walked through how to do it, not just having it done for me. I like to feel self-sufficient. I've noticed this more as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I mostly just preferred someone just went ahead and did it for me.

This doesn't sound Te seeking really. That self-sufficiency thing in particular really comes off as LII>EII.

[Hermit Soul]

Going by these descriptions, I'm probably more Te seeking than Fe seeking. I don't like being told what has to get done and I hate being corrected constantly when I'm doing something wrong. Depending on the task, I do prefer to be shown and walked through how to do it, not just having it done for me. I like to feel self-sufficient. I've noticed this more as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I mostly just preferred someone just went ahead and did it for me.

This doesn't sound Te seeking really. That self-sufficiency thing in particular really comes off as LII>EII.

That sounds more like Te PoLR actually. I have Te PoLR and I really hate it whenever people correct me constantly in an asshole manner.

Example of someone correcting me in an asshole manner: "I've told you the same thing so many times already, and you still can't get it right. You need to stop expecting others to spoon-feed you all the time."

Hearing that sentence is enough to send my blood go boiling.

[Myst]

That sounds more like Te PoLR actually. I have Te PoLR and I really hate it whenever people correct me constantly in an asshole manner.

Example of someone correcting me in an asshole manner: "I've told you the same thing so many times already, and you still can't get it right. You need to stop expecting others to spoon-feed you all the time."

Hearing that sentence is enough to send my blood go boiling.

Now she'll type as SEI

Btw, I don't like unsolicited advice either. Tho' I'm ok with being told what has to get done if I'm an employee or whatever, and I can decide anyway if I want to go with it or not, so it doesn't irritate me - might be the Se.

So I don't know how any of that was seen as specifically Te DS

[Hermit Soul]

Now she'll type as SEI

Btw, I don't like unsolicited advice either. Tho' I'm ok with being told what has to get done if I'm an employee or whatever, and I can decide anyway if I want to go with it or not, so it doesn't irritate me - might be the Se.

So I don't know how any of that was seen as specifically Te DS

Maybe you felt this way because you don't value Te.

Also, it's not the unsolicited advice that bothers me most, but it's their asshole way of giving me advice that bothers me most, they literally talked down to me. If they want me to get something done, they could have asked me in a nicer manner, rather than unleashing a bunch of criticisms onto me.
For some strange reason, I don't mind being bossed around by SLEs, I have an SLE friend and they can be bossy and domineering at times but it doesn't bother me much, maybe because they treat me with respect and they don't talk down to me. But when it's ESIs bossing me around, it's a different story, they are not only bossy, but they also have this tendency to talk down to me and go overcritical on me, pointing out all my flaws and making me feel bad about myself.

[youfloweryourfeast]

hah, yeah i remember once me and my esi friend were playing bumper cars but the handle thing got stuck and we spent 10 minutes not knowing how to fix it. then someone finally yelled on the microphone and that all we had to do was twist it to the side to start it again.