Is she ENFj or ESFj?

[UDP]

Ahh... I feel myself slipping into a sort of duality with someone. It's glaringly apparent, to some extent, because all this socionics red flags and background information is rolling through my head while interacting with one person.

totally
j yes

and I'm willing to bet it is Si/Ni subtype for whichever she is, as opposed to the Fe subtype


I am just not COMPLETELY sure yet about her N/S dicthotomey.


It is so easy to talk to her that I'm actually stumbling over my words -- not because I don't know what to say, but because there is so much I want to say about a certain subject. It's a very odd situation to be in. I feel like I'm actually talking too much I know I'm not really, but it feels like I could very well do so. The issue of "religion/spirituality" came up today...

[UDP]

Seems more alpha > beta
and more Careful > victim

[Dioklecian]

While people might disagree with VI, if you have pics put them on UDP>

[UDP]

...

[Dioklecian]

ISTP IMO

[Slacker]

Did you hear she has major ????

Do you say ISTp because she isn't smiling in one of the photos? Like not smiling = ISTp?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Dioklecian]

Did you hear she has major ????

Do you say ISTp because she isn't smiling in one of the photos? Like not smiling = ISTp?

Fine, ISTP or ISFJ or ISFP.

[UDP]

OMFG

YOU ALL SUCK AT VI


You base everything on someone's smiling-ness. You all suck . All of you.

You typed my ESFp friend as ISTj

and now

ISTp for someone who is OUT OF THIS WORLD


============
============



Sorry, I'm a little stressed right now. It is good to vent when you get the oppertunity.

Let me tell state it clearly, though:

NOT I
NOT T
NOT p

YES E
YES F
YES j

[raisonpure]

Doesn't look very ENFj to me. I mean, compare her with this hilarious guy:



He loved to play DDR with a flamboyance that sent me giggling. Drew oodles of attention to himself wherever he went. Theatrical, but funny nonetheless. Would boast about himself with every opportunity, though not in a serious way. Heck, his first girlfriend even looked ISTj.

Now compare him with this girl:



So unless my lack of experience with people has screwed me for life, ENFjs look (and are?) a whole lot more enigmatic IMO

Your, um, friend, also looks like a brief playmate of mine from primary school. Her best friend was a total bitch who bullied me through to secondary school. We had quite the history. I was only able to escape her clutches by fleeing the country.

[UDP]

....

[UDP]

Doesn't look very ENFj to me....
...

Drew oodles of attention to himself wherever he went. Theatrical, but funny nonetheless. Would boast about himself with every opportunity, though not in a serious way

Yes, that is kind of what I'm getting at. Is not as flayboyant as the ENFjs I know (like my grandmother, who is married to an ISTj).

[UDP]

If a mod wants to put this in "what's my type" go ahead. It probably belongs there anyway.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[raisonpure]

I was wondering if Dioklecian was joking. Anyway, perhaps you could try asking her if she likes Wagner or Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no.3, and more importantly, why? My friend has always been drawn to music that exude POWER, which was puzzling, until I learned about HA.

[UDP]

Yeah I still like her. If I were to meet her, she'd think at first that I was a little too quiet and serious, and I doubt we'd become very close friends, although she'd tend to think she knew me very well. If we hung out very often she'd be pulling me to do this or that with her, and would feel like she needed to make me more outgoingish.

How do you like my conjecture all from a few pics

One of the most easygoing people I met, aside from my ESFj room mate last year.

It is so easy to talk to her, but she won't force conversations on you, either.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Dioklecian]

All right, she is ISFP end of discussion.

[science as magic]

why does your opinion even matter let alone override that of others?

[Dioklecian]

pp

[Dioklecian]

why does your opinion even matter let alone override that of others?

As you adequately pointed out it is merely my opinion, the discussion is over for me but you can feel free to continue.

Plus I have disproved the typings of Jung himself on 2 occasions, and typed Joy and Gilligan and several others.

Generally I have a significant amount of expertice in typing individuals.

[UDP]

She sounds great, whatever type she is

She's the "wow I might actually consider a relationship with you" type, which is extremely rare.

I might be an INTj, but I have high standards. INTj Rabbit/Taurus is the worst .

Theoretically we could get along great... she's even into making the world a better place. And like some other ESFjs I know, she dresses kind of conservatively (generally), but has a nice body.

ESFjs are very interesting in terms of how they reflect their society.


Like I said, and I still mean this ---- if my ESFj room mate last year was a girl, I'd definitely be pursuing a relationship with her. He is mormon, and now he's getting into those Covey books because someone brought them up at his church, so it's really cool. I've never been so compelled to wish someone was a girl before, to be honest. I suppose the best thing I could do for him would be to find an N subtype INTj girl for him, preferably one from his church. Or maybe I should look for some ESFjs babes from his church..... hmm......

[Creepy-pokeball]

Good lord ask her out. Geez.

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

im picking between esfj and enfj

esfj

[UDP]

im picking between esfj and enfj

esfj

Yes, it's either one or the other. Limited domain here, folks. Gold star for AF - she executed it properly, and even chose a good answer.

Well done
(I'm serious)

[Kristiina]

ISFp.

Why do you think she is EJ?

Look at her and look at the "I feel good" girl. Look at the body language. Now that's the difference between p and j. It might not be easy to put into words, but the difference is there. (Can't say if the other girl is IJ or EJ. I would have to hear her voice)

[UDP]

EJ?

Very busy
Community orientated
Sees church as a means for community support and relationships
Tremendous conversationalist
Approaches church in a very similar way to other ESFjs I know.

Usually very busy with 'lots of things that aren't necessarily super important.'
Prefers structure of some sort.

Asked me, when she was ill, if running would be better for her than sleeping.



Now, I haven't considered ISFp, to be honest.
I'm fairly sure she's alpha
But it is strange......

I grew up with an ISFp and ESFj as two key people in my life. They are similar but obviously different.


That girl reminds me of both of them
If she really is ISFp, then she's very extraverted and very subtype
I'll look over the ISFp descriptions agian, though.


What do you think some major EJ / IP differences are - that I would be able to notice?

[UDP]

I was wondering if Dioklecian was joking. Anyway, perhaps you could try asking her if she likes Wagner or Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no.3, and more importantly, why? My friend has always been drawn to music that exude POWER, which was puzzling, until I learned about HA.

What friend are you talking about?

and

how is that relevant?

[dreamer]

AWWWW! She's so cute! She could be ESFJ...more she seems more carefree and easygoing...

[UDP]

Oldham Style: Artistic
Basic Pleasure Basic Fear
creativity being unable to create
Oldham's Type Description

1. Mood swings. Those of the Artistic temperament tend to experience a greater range of emotion than those of any other type. They are very emotionally reactive.
2. Artistic inclinations. The Artistic type is the most inclined of all the types to be involved with the fine arts, music, or literature. They take an artistic approach to all aspects of their lives.
3. Independent work. Like the majority of poets, novelists, composers, and to a lesser extent, of painters and sculptors, those of the Artistic type are bound to spend a great deal of their time alone.
4. Relationships secondary. Those of the Artistic temperament are quite likely to choose relationships which will further their work rather than relationships which are intrinsically rewarding, and their spouses may well find that marital relations take second place.
5. Great productivity. Persons of the Artistic type are highly disciplined, gifted with superior powers of concentration, and capable of producing great quantities of high quality work; they also enjoy frequent periods of recreation and inactivity.
6. Disinhibition. They are hedonistic and impulsive; they live Epicurean lives in the here and now, and as gracefully as possible.
7. Keen perceptions. The Artistic temperament is especially attuned to color, line, texture, shading - touch, motion, seeing, and hearing in harmony. The senses of Artistic individuals seem more keenly tuned than those of others.
8. Kindness. Although those of the Artistic type may adopt an aggressive, tough exterior, they are remarkably gentle, kind, and generous.
9. Extroversion and introversion. The interpersonal conduct of those of the Artistic type alternates between the greatest extremes of sociability and social reticence.
10. Love of nature. In many individuals of the Artistic type there may be found an instinctive longing for the natural, the pastoral, the bucolic. They are quite at home in the wilds, and nature seems to welcome them.

Artistic < Self-Sacrificing

Oldham's Type Description

1. Generosity. Individuals with the Self-Sacrificing personality style will give you the shirts off their backs if you need them. They do not wait to be asked.
2. Service. Their "prime directive" is to be helpful to others. Out of deference to others, they are noncompetitive and unambitious, comfortable coming second, even last.
3. Consideration. Self-Sacrificing people are always considerate in their dealings with others. They are ethical, honest, and trustworthy.
4. Acceptance. They are nonjudgmental, tolerant of others' foibles, and never harshly reproving. They'll stick with you through thick and thin.
5. Humility. They are neither boastful nor proud, and they're uncomfortable being fussed over. Self-Sacrificing men and women do not like being the center of attention; they are uneasy in the limelight.
6. Endurance. They are long-suffering. They prefer to shoulder their own burdens in life. They have much patience and a high tolerance for discomfort.
7. Artlessness. Self-Sacrificing individuals are rather naive and innocent. They are unaware of the often deep impact they make on other people's lives, and they tend never to suspect deviousness or underhanded motives in the people to whom they give so much of themselves.

But I am still not sure... I'll have to try to focus onthe IP/EJ differences whenI am aroudn her next time.

[raisonpure]

I was wondering if Dioklecian was joking. Anyway, perhaps you could try asking her if she likes Wagner or Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no.3, and more importantly, why? My friend has always been drawn to music that exude POWER, which was puzzling, until I learned about HA.

What friend are you talking about?

and

how is that relevant?

A friend with PoLR, possibly ENFj.

and

It could be a method of testing for hidden agenda. If she evinces attraction to the "power" found in Wagner and Rach 3, that tips the scale towards ENFj...

[raisonpure]

Look at her and look at the "I feel good" girl. Look at the body language. Now that's the difference between p and j. It might not be easy to put into words, but the difference is there. (Can't say if the other girl is IJ or EJ. I would have to hear her voice)

May I ask who the "I feel good" girl is? I am definitely missing something here

[science as magic]

[UDP]

"I feel good"

is what is written
on the part of her shirt
that covers her breasts

[raisonpure]

Thanks for the concise explanation, UDP. Hm, I wonder how I missed that
@ Pedro-the-Lion... Damn, I need that rofl smiley. Now I won't miss it for sure

[science as magic]

maybe i will make that my next avatar

[Jimbean]

ESFj!

OKAY, THERE YOU GO, NOW GO ASK HER OUT!

otherwise I'll hit you with my

[UDP]

Don't you know who I am?
(he must not know who I am)

You cannot harm me...

-He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others.

[meatburger]

Hmm, she looks nice ask her out. I think she looks like a good person.

No offense, but church goers can fool you in my opinion. They are generally more wholesome that their normal type. They get the wholesome vibe from all the other churchies.

I would say shes a type that i dont know very well. Not one of the common ones i come across / notice often. Maybe like ESFj?

[Dioklecian]

Oldham Style: Artistic
Basic Pleasure Basic Fear
creativity being unable to create
Oldham's Type Description

1. Mood swings. Those of the Artistic temperament tend to experience a greater range of emotion than those of any other type. They are very emotionally reactive.
2. Artistic inclinations. The Artistic type is the most inclined of all the types to be involved with the fine arts, music, or literature. They take an artistic approach to all aspects of their lives.
3. Independent work. Like the majority of poets, novelists, composers, and to a lesser extent, of painters and sculptors, those of the Artistic type are bound to spend a great deal of their time alone.
4. Relationships secondary. Those of the Artistic temperament are quite likely to choose relationships which will further their work rather than relationships which are intrinsically rewarding, and their spouses may well find that marital relations take second place.
5. Great productivity. Persons of the Artistic type are highly disciplined, gifted with superior powers of concentration, and capable of producing great quantities of high quality work; they also enjoy frequent periods of recreation and inactivity.
6. Disinhibition. They are hedonistic and impulsive; they live Epicurean lives in the here and now, and as gracefully as possible.
7. Keen perceptions. The Artistic temperament is especially attuned to color, line, texture, shading - touch, motion, seeing, and hearing in harmony. The senses of Artistic individuals seem more keenly tuned than those of others.
8. Kindness. Although those of the Artistic type may adopt an aggressive, tough exterior, they are remarkably gentle, kind, and generous.
9. Extroversion and introversion. The interpersonal conduct of those of the Artistic type alternates between the greatest extremes of sociability and social reticence.
10. Love of nature. In many individuals of the Artistic type there may be found an instinctive longing for the natural, the pastoral, the bucolic. They are quite at home in the wilds, and nature seems to welcome them.

Artistic < Self-Sacrificing


But I am still not sure... I'll have to try to focus onthe IP/EJ differences whenI am aroudn her next time.

UDP, I think that the artistic type refers to the MBTI ISFP, that in socionics is roughly ISFJ.

See if this girl sounds like this:

Devoted Personality Type, Creative Commons Version





Idols
Compulsive attachment: being taken care of
Compulsive aversion: having to act independently
Idols of the Types




I now see Dr. Oldham's Devoted Personality Style construct from a Christian perspective, whereby it represents an attempt to find our source of security in a strategy rather than a trust in God (Cooper); or, in Karen Horney's terms, it represents a search for glory.



Dr. John M. Oldham has defined the Devoted personality style. The following seven characteristic traits and behaviors are listed in his The New Personality Self-Portrait.

Commitment. Individuals with the Devoted personality style are thoroughly dedicated to the relationships in their lives. They place the highest value on sustained relationships, they respect the institution of marriage as well as unofficial avowals of commitment, and they work hard to keep their relationships together.


Togetherness. They prefer the company of one or more people to being alone.


Teamwork. People with this personality style would rather follow than lead. They are cooperative and respectful of authority and institutions. They easily rely on others and take direction well.


Deference. When making decisions, they are happy to seek out others' opinions and to follow their advice.


Harmony. Devoted individuals are careful to promote good feelings between themselves and the important people in their lives. To promote harmony, they tend to be polite, agreeable, and tactful.


Consideration. They are thoughtful of others and good at pleasing them. Devoted people will endure personal discomfort to do a good turn for the key people in their lives.


Attachment. Relationships provide life's meaning for this personality style. Even after a painful loss of someone around whom their life was centered, they are able to form new meaningful bonds.


Source: Oldham, John M., and Lois B. Morris. The New Personality Self-Portrait: Why You Think, Work, Love, and Act the Way You Do. Rev. ed. New York: Bantam, 1995.





Idealized Image
I did conceive of "character strengths and virtues" in a positive way as Martin Seligman does in his Positive Psychology, but now see them as images of perfection that inflate the idealized self theorized by Karen Horney.





Character Strengths and Virtues (what the Dependent type is proud of)



Devoutness, Self-Denial, Decency; Seriousness, Soberness, Conservatism, Self-Control, Cautiousness, Obedience; Frugality, Thriftiness.
Forgiveness, Meekness, Forbearance, Patience; Humility, Modesty, Moderation, Discretion.
Sociability, Tactfulness.
Sincerity, Honesty, Justice; Reliability, Responsibility, Trustworthiness, Loyalty, Faithfulness.
Politeness, Courtesy, Thoughtfulness.
Altruism, Benignity, Gentleness, Sympathy, Sensitivity, Considerateness, Friendliness; Gratitude, Tenderness, Agreeableness, Fraternity.
Attentiveness, Persistence, Perseverance; Tidiness, Orderliness, Carefulness, Meticulousness, Dutifulness, Prudence; Steadiness.
Knowledgeableness, Fortitude, Stoicism, Humorousness.

This profile was derived from Cawley's 23 "Virtue Subclusters" in Michael J. Cawley III, James E. Martin, John A. Johnson (1999), A Virtues Approach to Personality.


[Devotedness, acceptance, agreeableness, kindness, loyalty, likableness, friendliness, modesty, humility]


Care (concern), loving, solicitous, concerned, loyal, considerate, ever-so-helpful, team players; helping, giving, tender-hearted, dedicated, domestic, nurturing (Oldham, 108), committed, dedicated, relationship-oriented; companionable; cooperative, respectful of authority; deference, docility; careful, harmonious, politeness, agreeableness, tactfulness; considerateness, thoughtfulness, pleasing, endurance, good deeds; attachment, meaningful bonds (109), attentiveness, consideration, anticipation, endurance, self-sacrifice, self-denial (110), trust, loyalty, faithfulness (112), idealization (113), responsible, pleasing, compliance (114), nurturing, sensitive, carefulness, concern, compliance, deference, loyalty (115), active, productive, (116), steady, open, disposed to express and accept love, self-control, reliable, hard-working, disposed to please, take orders well, cooperative (117), non-competitive, cooperative, competent, sensitive, friendly, encouraging, caring, gratitude (118), diplomacy (120).