My dad

[Minde]

I get along well with my parents, for the most part. I relate best to my dad. I can talk with him about just about anything. When I have been thinking a subject through (religion, politics, policy, etc.) he's very easy to talk to. I also talk with him when I'm trying to make a decision. I tend to talk to my mom more about practical type stuff having to do with taking care of me or my things.

Dad usually "gets" what I'm talking about or trying to say. Sometimes my mom does, too, but it's often from a different viewpoint that throws me off.

My mom is the one who takes care of everything around the house, like yard work, house repair, cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. My dad is pretty much useless in those areas. He doesn't like to take care of things, so sometimes I get frustrated when he won't do something as simple as put the DVD in the player for himself.

He can also be a little bit controlling and protective (which annoys my sister). But he's usually easy to reason with and he never really asks for something that makes no sense. He just tends to worry about his family's safety. If you can convince him that you understand the danger and that everything'll be okay, he lightens up.

He volunteered to fight in the Vietnam war, not because he really wanted to, but because then he could choose his area of specialty, electronics. Evidently you couldn't do that if you were drafted. He really didn't enjoy his time in the military. "The army and I didn't get along that well."

His career has always involved computers in some fashion or another, mostly programming. Right now he's more of a project manager. In the last few months he's introduced a new way of managing projects, one that is a lot more flexible and gives team members a lot more ownership than the ways that most companies and governments do things. He's pretty enthusiastic about it and people seem to be liking it.

Speaking of making changes, about ten years ago he discovered that he loves lobbying at our state capitol. Not just for any reason, but for a good cause, namely home school rights. He and my mom were early members of the movement and are involved in a state-wide leadership board. He got chosen as their representative to state officials because he had some previous political experience (in fact, my entire extended family is pretty into exercising their right to involvement in government, but that's another story).

My dad says he feels like a duck in water when he's at the capitol. And not because he's a slime-bag. Far from it. He's one of the most genuine-hearted people I know. He likes finding out what each side wants and finding ways to meet both sides' needs. He's good at finding compromises without giving up his principles. He's also good at making people trust and like him. I think he also gets a sort of perverse pleasure out of getting (making?) people to be nice and do what he wants.

Another of his strong traits is that he asks for advice or input a lot. Whether it's print, online, or a friend, he like to get alternate opinions and expertise. He's always bringing home articles on safety/health that he found and printed out. Every couple of weeks or so he'll go over to my grandparents' and talk with them and my aunt about whatever it is that he's working on or mulling over. He asks for my opinion a lot, too, which sometimes bothers me. I feel like he's putting too much importance on me. He likes to bounce ideas off me.

He's a good communicator with my mom. She's never complained that he won't take the time to listen to her. Sometimes he gets impatient with her (usually for the same reasons that I do), but he always feels bad about it tries really hard to be patient and loving even when he doesn't feel like it. He's actually much nicer and patient than I am in general. I have a lot to learn from him.

His favorite book of the Bible is Proverbs, because it talks about dealing with people wisely. (He even wrote a program for it that does extensive cross-referencing.)

Let's see... what else? He's good at logic, and I can trust him to iron out many of the wrinkles in my thinking. For example, when I asked him some of the questions that I was getting in the religion thread, his answers made more sense and were simpler than many of mine.

One big difference between him and me is that he loves mathematics and statistics, whereas they bore me to tears. Fortunately for me, though, he's also an excellent teacher. I don't think I would have gotten through all those required math courses without his careful tutoring. He's good at taking those concepts and making them visual, which is exactly what I need.

Umm, so that's all for now. What do you think? Identical? Please put not only what you think but why. I know, writing out detailed explanations is a little time-consuming, but they really help.

[Expat]

I get along well with my parents, for the most part. I relate best to my dad. I can talk with him about just about anything. When I have been thinking a subject through (religion, politics, policy, etc.) he's very easy to talk to. I also talk with him when I'm trying to make a decision. I tend to talk to my mom more about practical type stuff having to do with taking care of me or my things.

Dad usually "gets" what I'm talking about or trying to say. Sometimes my mom does, too, but it's often from a different viewpoint that throws me off.

Could be same quadra; probably we can at least eliminate Beta.

My mom is the one who takes care of everything around the house, like yard work, house repair, cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. My dad is pretty much useless in those areas. He doesn't like to take care of things, so sometimes I get frustrated when he won't do something as simple as put the DVD in the player for himself.

Very probably not a -ego type. Not ENTj, ESTj, ISTp, ESTj.

He can also be a little bit controlling and protective (which annoys my sister). But he's usually easy to reason with and he never really asks for something that makes no sense. He just tends to worry about his family's safety. If you can convince him that you understand the danger and that everything'll be okay, he lightens up.

Perhaps a Caregiver type; so ESFj or ISFp. Perhaps also ISFj due to PoLR.

He volunteered to fight in the Vietnam war, not because he really wanted to, but because then he could choose his area of specialty, electronics. Evidently you couldn't do that if you were drafted. He really didn't enjoy his time in the military. "The army and I didn't get along that well."

I could see an ISFj doing that actually. Taking a preemptive decision to eliminate uncertainty.

His career has always involved computers in some fashion or another, mostly programming. Right now he's more of a project manager. In the last few months he's introduced a new way of managing projects, one that is a lot more flexible and gives team members a lot more ownership than the ways that most companies and governments do things. He's pretty enthusiastic about it and people seem to be liking it.

Means nothing with regard to type.

Speaking of making changes, about ten years ago he discovered that he loves lobbying at our state capitol. Not just for any reason, but for a good cause, namely home school rights. He and my mom were early members of the movement and are involved in a state-wide leadership board. He got chosen as their representative to state officials because he had some previous political experience (in fact, my entire extended family is pretty into exercising their right to involvement in government, but that's another story).

Confirms that he's likely an F type. Eliminating the Betas, that leaves ESFj, ISFp, ISFj, ESFp, INFj, ENFp.

My dad says he feels like a duck in water when he's at the capitol. And not because he's a slime-bag. Far from it. He's one of the most genuine-hearted people I know. He likes finding out what each side wants and finding ways to meet both sides' needs. He's good at finding compromises without giving up his principles. He's also good at making people trust and like him. I think he also gets a sort of perverse pleasure out of getting (making?) people to be nice and do what he wants.

Again a Feeler, but not necessarily ego.

Another of his strong traits is that he asks for advice or input a lot. Whether it's print, online, or a friend, he like to get alternate opinions and expertise. He's always bringing home articles on safety/health that he found and printed out. Every couple of weeks or so he'll go over to my grandparents' and talk with them and my aunt about whatever it is that he's working on or mulling over. He asks for my opinion a lot, too, which sometimes bothers me. I feel like he's putting too much importance on me. He likes to bounce ideas off me.

Could be or dual-seeking. Probably we can eliminate ISFp (he didn't seem like an IP anyway so far).

He's a good communicator with my mom. She's never complained that he won't take the time to listen to her. Sometimes he gets impatient with her (usually for the same reasons that I do), but he always feels bad about it tries really hard to be patient and loving even when he doesn't feel like it. He's actually much nicer and patient than I am in general. I have a lot to learn from him.

Only confirms feeler, but probably also a Rational type. I think we can reduce it to ESFj, ISFj, INFj.

His favorite book of the Bible is Proverbs, because it talks about dealing with people wisely. (He even wrote a program for it that does extensive cross-referencing.)

Further confirmation of the trends so far - -

Let's see... what else? He's good at logic, and I can trust him to iron out many of the wrinkles in my thinking. For example, when I asked him some of the questions that I was getting in the religion thread, his answers made more sense and were simpler than many of mine.

Slight evidence towards ISFj or INFj, unless you're mistaking something else for logic.

One big difference between him and me is that he loves mathematics and statistics, whereas they bore me to tears. Fortunately for me, though, he's also an excellent teacher. I don't think I would have gotten through all those required math courses without his careful tutoring. He's good at taking those concepts and making them visual, which is exactly what I need.

If I had to choose one of the two types with base on that, I'd have said ISFj.

Umm, so that's all for now. What do you think? Identical? Please put not only what you think but why. I know, writing out detailed explanations is a little time-consuming, but they really help.

It's not clear. More information is needed. How does he get along with your sister? Not as good as with you?

The main thing that you described that makes me prefer INFj to ISFj is the stuff about not being good with housework etc.

My preferences are

INFj > ISFj > ESFj

[Typeless Wonder]

I think he could be your identical. I'm fairly certain that one of my favorite math professors was an INFj. He had a tendency to be philosophical about the subject matter and didn't teach it in a very mechanical fashion the way many in his profession do. He was awesome. He also took a lot of interest in the welfare and success of his students which was another oddity that I hadn't encountered much in other math professors.

[Minde]

It's not clear. More information is needed. How does he get along with your sister? Not as good as with you?

The main thing that you described that makes me prefer INFj to ISFj is the stuff about not being good with housework etc.

He gets along pretty well with my sister. Like I said, she doesn't appreciate his safety concerns as much as I do. He and her have a different connection than he and I do. Just as strong, I think, but different. I'm not exactly sure how to describe it.

A couple of years ago, a huge strain was put on their relationship (the whole family, actually) when she had a boyfriend that really was not good for her. It could have gotten a lot messier if my sister had not decided that her family relationships, particularly with my dad, were more important than the boy.

My dad tries his best to understand my sister and to be reasonable to her requests for freedom. While many outside of our family have said that he is quite strict, I see him as fairly moderate. While he does have a lot of concerns, he doesn't have a whole lot of rules. Generally, rules are made only when they become a necessity. He tends to offer trust until that trust is broken. For example, growing up we never had a curfew. Though, one night my sister didn't come home until about 4, without calling home. Even then, she didn't get a curfew, just a talking to. She's been more careful since then.

She does think he's a little too strict sometimes, but because he's careful to explain things and he'll let her do a lot of the stuff she asks for, she hasn't really rebelled. For example, when she was younger, he didn't want her hanging out at the mall with just guys. She'd fight that and he'd explain to her why he wanted that. Then he'd listen to her and her reasons. Then he'd offer an alternative, like going with her (which never happened) or driving her over to go pick up one of her girlfriends so they could go together. Then he'd give her extra spending money.

She goes to him for advice, though not as much as I do. Of course, she's a lot less likely to ask for advice from anybody, so maybe that doesn't mean much. She seems to respect him a little more than she does my mom, at least in the areas of people relationships and doing the right thing. She's more likely to say to me, "You know, I think he's right about... [whatever]" in a thoughtful contemplative way than she is to say something similar about my mom. She definitely respects his opinion in any case.

He always takes time to listen to his kids, even if it interupts something he's working on or keeps him up late at night.

And, yes, my dad is horrible at house work. Simply horrible. He makes us do things whenever he can get away with it (which is actually a good thing, since the house would probably fall down if he was left in charge too long).

How is that? What else should I describe?

[Minde]

For those of you who like such things, here is a (temporary) VI:

[Expat]

And, yes, my dad is horrible at house work. Simply horrible. He makes us do things whenever he can get away with it (which is actually a good thing, since the house would probably fall down if he was left in charge too long).

Well, it sounds like INFj is it. The difficulties with your sister seem to stem from temperament differences, and although one must be careful with this kind of trait, I don't find it very likely that a male ISFj or ESFj would be that bad at house work. In isolation I might also have thought of ENFj, but again I think we can discount the Betas.

Do you have reasons why he should not be your identical?

Ah, and I can't say anything from the picture

[Slacker]

Your sister had a boyfriend, and your dad thought he wasn't good for her, and she was forced to choose between him and her dad?

That rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm too sensitive because my dad and husband don't get along.

[Gilly]

From what I can glean from that picture, he's a judger, most likely an introvert, and probably a feeler. I could probably distinguish S/N better with a photo that's straight on, and with as little expression as possible, although it's always harder with older people, IMO.

I'll take a stab at analyzing what you've written about him.

I can talk with him about just about anything. When I have been thinking a subject through (religion, politics, policy, etc.) he's very easy to talk to. I also talk with him when I'm trying to make a decision. I tend to talk to my mom more about practical type stuff having to do with taking care of me or my things.

This suggests vaguely that he is the Feeler of the two, and that your mother is the Thinker.

My mom is the one who takes care of everything around the house, like yard work, house repair, cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. My dad is pretty much useless in those areas. He doesn't like to take care of things, so sometimes I get frustrated when he won't do something as simple as put the DVD in the player for himself.

When combined with other things you've said, suggests ST/NF couple. So Beta/Delta.

He can also be a little bit controlling and protective (which annoys my sister). But he's usually easy to reason with and he never really asks for something that makes no sense.

Rational.

He just tends to worry about his family's safety. If you can convince him that you understand the danger and that everything'll be okay, he lightens up.

HA, imo. I experience the same thing with my father (INFj/ENFp).

He likes finding out what each side wants and finding ways to meet both sides' needs.

Ethical

He's also good at making people trust and like him. I think he also gets a sort of perverse pleasure out of getting (making?) people to be nice and do what he wants.

You know, objectively, I might attribute this to in the ego, but my father, who I am quite sure is INFj with a slight possibility of ENFp, is like this as well. So we'll leave this at Ethical.

Another of his strong traits is that he asks for advice or input a lot. Whether it's print, online, or a friend, he like to get alternate opinions and expertise. He's always bringing home articles on safety/health that he found and printed out. Laughing Every couple of weeks or so he'll go over to my grandparents' and talk with them and my aunt about whatever it is that he's working on or mulling over. He asks for my opinion a lot, too, which sometimes bothers me. I feel like he's putting too much importance on me. He likes to bounce ideas off me.

Rational feeler.


Everything points to NFj. However, my general impression is not of an ENFj or Beta in general, and is very much consistent with my idea of INFjs. In addition, he sounds a lot like my father who I believe to be Delta NF, and he definitely VIs as an introvert. INFj is a safe bet.

[Dioklecian]

For those of you who like such things, here is a (temporary) VI:

ESFJ from VI

[Minde]

Do you have reasons why he should not be your identical?

Well, he and I think alike a lot. I think I can be a little bit more practical than him. I'm trying really hard to think of any major differences, but nothing is really coming to mind. He's just a lot better at some things, more mature, I guess you could say. If anything, he tends to be less pushy, and yet more persistent, than me.

My mom says I'm often more reasonable. Yet I'm also more of a worrier. She says I "get" things quicker than he does. To her, it seems like often she just has to say a word and I understand, whereas it takes a few more words to get through to my dad. I think I'm a little more in touch with the physical world than he is (though clutter bothers him more than it does me).

He's also a little more likely to joke and be silly with people he doesn't know as well, especially when he's feeling happy and comfortable.

I did a little digging, and here's what my ESFj friend has to say about him (slightly edited for spelling and punctuation):

When I was a child, I feared him! (I think I was terrified of your mother a little too!)

He always seemed so serious and strict. I didn't see his humor. Now, I think he is a dear. At times I wonder if he worries about changing things too much! For he knows what he thinks and he is determined to make things go his way. Yet, I wonder, sometimes I think he makes things too important. Yet, I also respect him for taking action upon what he believes so firmly to be true.

I have learned to look past the firm frown and I see a loving and at times doting father, one who cherishes his children and who has worked hard to treat them as they should be and bring them up in the way they should be. I see a father that is very interested and aware of his children's lives. Much more so than my father. It would probably drive me nuts if he were my father, yet I see how he fits your family so perfectly. God placed him exactly where he needed to be.

I see a man who is fascinated with the details, with the interworkings [of things]. At times he does see the big picture and he can look upon that as well, though his strength is in figuring out what the small steps are and how they should be improved. I believe he is a man set on improvement and fine tweaking. He gently adjusts things, bending a little here, and a slight bit there, so that everything works smoothly and efficiently. Much like K* slowly and gently tunes his guitar with utter gentleness and sensitivity, slowly and meticulously. He is not satisfied until it is just right, the sound has to be perfect.

He is a man who can be in front and boldly speak when necessary, yet he is strongest as a force unseen and not so publicly known. He is an underlying force that moves powerfully, with out causing much disruption.

I also see him as a man who seeks wisdom and understanding.

I see him as a man who is very interested in people and how they think and why they think the way they do. He likes to understand things on a deeper level. I do not think he manipulates too much, though I see he has a tendency to use the knowledge which he has of people against them, if it helps them to understand his way of thinking . :-) Though, he would never hurt someone deliberately. For he is gentle. Firm, but gentle.

I do not deny that he is very protective of those he loves, yet it is shown in different ways than, at least, I expect. His actions are out of love, though at times they may look harsh. One has to look at the big picture and into the distance to grasp his reason behind some actions and some restrictions. Though it is because he does see the larger picture and he does know what possibilities [are] like in the distance, that he makes such actions.

He is fun. I never knew this until just a while ago. He has his own unique sense of humor, his own sort of fun. He likes to laugh and relax and enjoy life. I guess I just never saw it as a child. My sight was limited and biased. Yeah, I like your dad. He is one that it takes a while to understand and come around to liking. But once you know him, and see him with his family, you have to like him. There is something endearing about him.

It's helped when I've posted some of her stuff before.

* K is one of my brothers. All of the boys in my immediate family, including my dad, have perfect pitch. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with personality type, but I thought I'd mention it.

[Minde]

Your sister had a boyfriend, and your dad thought he wasn't good for her, and she was forced to choose between him and her dad?

That rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm too sensitive because my dad and husband don't get along.

No, it wasn't a choice between her father and her boyfriend. My dad always did his best to let my sister know that he'd always love her and be there for her. He just really didn't think this boy was good for her. And my sister understood that. Plus there were other issues going on that I don't really want to discuss here. A lot of the problems our family was having went away when the boy did. There was still some cleanup and healing to do, but without him around at least we could do the cleaning and healing. This may be a very mean thing to say, but that boy was like a poison.

My sister sees a lot more of this now, now that she's got a few more years of experience under her belt. But it was a testament to her strong relationship with my dad that she trusted his judgment and listened to his advice. Perhaps it is a testament to her strong character, as well.

In any case, I'm glad my sister got rid of the boy. I think she would have been miserable with him, eventually. He gave off a lot of the classic controller/abuser signals.

[Slacker]

Aaaah I see.

I wish some people I've known would have listened to me when I said someone was toxic and they shouldn't get involved with them. *sigh* But I'm really really diplomatic so maybe I don't get my point across.

[Expat]

When I was a child, I feared him! (I think I was terrified of your mother a little too!)

He always seemed so serious and strict. I didn't see his humor. Now, I think he is a dear. At times I wonder if he worries about changing things too much! For he knows what he thinks and he is determined to make things go his way. Yet, I wonder, sometimes I think he makes things too important. Yet, I also respect him for taking action upon what he believes so firmly to be true.

What I get from this is IJ temperament, at least rationality.

I have learned to look past the firm frown and I see a loving and at times doting father, one who cherishes his children and who has worked hard to treat them as they should be and bring them up in the way they should be. I see a father that is very interested and aware of his children's lives. Much more so than my father. It would probably drive me nuts if he were my father, yet I see how he fits your family so perfectly. God placed him exactly where he needed to be.

Nice But not much help for the type.

I see a man who is fascinated with the details, with the interworkings [of things]. At times he does see the big picture and he can look upon that as well, though his strength is in figuring out what the small steps are and how they should be improved. I believe he is a man set on improvement and fine tweaking. He gently adjusts things, bending a little here, and a slight bit there, so that everything works smoothly and efficiently. Much like K* slowly and gently tunes his guitar with utter gentleness and sensitivity, slowly and meticulously. He is not satisfied until it is just right, the sound has to be perfect.

If it means anything at all, it would be again IJ.

He is a man who can be in front and boldly speak when necessary, yet he is strongest as a force unseen and not so publicly known. He is an underlying force that moves powerfully, with out causing much disruption.

At most, suggests that he isn't an EP.

I also see him as a man who seeks wisdom and understanding.

Perhaps again rationality or even IJ too.

I see him as a man who is very interested in people and how they think and why they think the way they do. He likes to understand things on a deeper level. I do not think he manipulates too much, though I see he has a tendency to use the knowledge which he has of people against them, if it helps them to understand his way of thinking . :-) Though, he would never hurt someone deliberately. For he is gentle. Firm, but gentle.

Feeler.

I do not deny that he is very protective of those he loves, yet it is shown in different ways than, at least, I expect. His actions are out of love, though at times they may look harsh. One has to look at the big picture and into the distance to grasp his reason behind some actions and some restrictions. Though it is because he does see the larger picture and he does know what possibilities [are] like in the distance, that he makes such actions.

Again this suggests rationality.

He is fun. I never knew this until just a while ago. He has his own unique sense of humor, his own sort of fun. He likes to laugh and relax and enjoy life.

If it wasn't obvious, again it suggests an IJ type since perhaps they are the least likely to obviously want to laugh and enjoy life.

I guess I just never saw it as a child. My sight was limited and biased. Yeah, I like your dad. He is one that it takes a while to understand and come around to liking. But once you know him, and see him with his family, you have to like him. There is something endearing about him.

Consistent with the same --

From this description alone, I'd have said INFj or ISFj, no preference between the two.

[FDG]

Just at first glance I'd say INTj.

[Expat]

Well, he and I think alike a lot. I think I can be a little bit more practical than him. I'm trying really hard to think of any major differences, but nothing is really coming to mind. He's just a lot better at some things, more mature, I guess you could say. If anything, he tends to be less pushy, and yet more persistent, than me.

My mom says I'm often more reasonable. Yet I'm also more of a worrier. She says I "get" things quicker than he does. To her, it seems like often she just has to say a word and I understand, whereas it takes a few more words to get through to my dad. I think I'm a little more in touch with the physical world than he is (though clutter bothers him more than it does me).

He's also a little more likely to joke and be silly with people he doesn't know as well, especially when he's feeling happy and comfortable.

If you are INFj, as I have no reason to doubt, I can't see him as anything but another INFj then.

[Minde]

Thanks Expat and Gilligan Those explanations are always useful to me.

I thought INFj, too, but it's nice to have it backed up by other opinions.