Long-term mirror relationships

[Shytan]

Any experiences with long-term mirror relations?
I'll start with mine

I've been with my ENFp boyfriend for over two years, and I can't see my life without him. We are both Sx-first and so it's been dramatic so far, full of ups and downs and breakups.
What I don't like about mirror relations, which I saw mentioned, is the lack of warmth in some way. And sometimes there's misunderstanding and miscommunication, which leads to arguments. With mirror relations, when it's good it's really really good (the vibe, mutual understanding and sympathy, mental stimulation, etc) and when it's bad it's really bad (pain over mutual expectation of a caregiver in that both of us are weak in sensing so who'll take care of who?, arguments and irritation in general).

[BuddyL]

I've been in a long term mirror relationship with an ESE.

Generally it's a positive relationship. Lots of mutual understanding, little miscommunication issues after we sorted out our differences. At the beginning, it was quite bumpy since we communicated differently. I had a bad habit of bottling things in while he always expressed himself in the immediate context. However, we've gotten a lot better about that. He respects I need time to sort out my thoughts and I try to be patient with him when he lets out all his emotions. So this isn't really a problem anymore.

The best part of the relationship, in my opinion, is we have such a strong friendship. Our conversations are usually deep and interesting. I can be myself around him as he can with me as well. I feel like he's the only one who truly understands me and can deal with me. We have similar interests which make our relationship fun and entertaining. He appreciates my savage sense of humor, which is really important to me. We generally enjoy each other's company.

What's missing, however, is that I find there often is a lack of passion in the relationship. Things can be quite dull and routine, and sex-life can be lacking as well. We have different needs when it comes to seeing each other. As an extrovert, he wants to spend all his time with me, however, I prefer to have some alone time. Also, I do have some anxiety when his energy levels are too high, and can get a bit overwhelmed. That's about the extent of our problems.

Still a good relationship though. Can definitely see us getting married in the future.

[Rebelondeck]

..................Can definitely see us getting married in the future.

If I were you, I'd think long and hard about that. Don't concentrate on how well you get along in the moment; I'm sure it's quite good. Picture when life becomes rather predictable and whether or not both of you will really stay on the same course in the long term. ESEs tend to want to control things while SEIs tend to resent attempts at control or smothering.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

If I were you, I'd think long and hard about that. Don't concentrate on how well you get along in the moment; I'm sure it's quite good. Picture when life becomes rather predictable and whether or not both of you will really stay on the same course in the long term. ESEs tend to want to control things while SEIs tend to resent attempts at control or smothering.

a.k.a. I/O

Rebelondeck, you are a braver man than I. I happen to agree with you, but the last time I gave someone relationship advice, I lost a friend. It didn't help that things turned out the way socionics predicted.

I've concluded that giving relationship advice to non-duals is a lose-lose situation. If you are wrong and they stay together, you become that person who tried to break them up and spoil their happiness. If you are right and they break up, you become that person who planted the seeds of doubt into what would have otherwise been a perfect union. You become responsible for the failure of their relationship.

I no longer give relationship advice. The texts are there for anyone who wants to read them. There is a very great chance that they are correct in what they say, and that's about it.

[Rebelondeck]

@Adam Strange, both Shaebette and BuddyL gave hints that I have seen in other such relationships as becoming increasingly divisive - the miscommunications, irritations and different needs. However, I think any two types can co-exist happily under the right set of conditions. As far as losing friends, I'm old-school and have looked all my friends directly in the eye; otherwise, they're only acquaintances. No one should take my advice at face value without first thinking about it themselves - one person's enlightenment is another's garbage.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

@Rebelondeck, yes, any two types can co-exist under the right set of conditions. In particular, how much compromising they are willing to do, and how good they think a relationship can be.

Personally, I had no duals anywhere in my life growing up, and no examples of duals, so I thought that my parent's Mirror relationship (LSE-SLI) was a model of success. My parents seemed to get along, they rarely fought (but when they did, it was a blow-up, as if they had been harboring resentments for a long time), they loved and depended on each other, but they did nothing together, had no other friends, and their marriage seemed to be similar to two prisoners waiting out their life sentences in the same cell. My mother confided to my sister that sex was a distant memory for them.

I have pictures of them when they first met, and they seemed so happy. My SLI father had found an LSE woman exactly like his own LSE mother, only better, and my mother found a smart, hard working Delta introvert in law school whom she could boss around, who was similarly rational to and was a great improvement over her own old-country domineering LIE father.
Neither one was able to apply the kind of pressure on the other that they needed to be a working pair. Instead, they just kept to their separate ways and complained to us kids about the other one.

My LSE mother had a childhood IEE friend who lived in Denver with her husband, and when we were kids, our family went there to visit for a few days. I thought we had a great time, but we never went back. Recently, I was looking through old family albums, and I found a picture from that visit of my mother, my SLI father, and my mother's IEE friend sitting at a table. My father had the most unfamiliar expression on his face. He was happy, and so was the IEE, and my mother was looking puzzled and angry. My father still speaks warmly of the IEE. Ah, Socionics.

Having married (and divorced) a woman of the same type as my father, I can say that this method of selecting a mate (marrying a parent) leaves a lot to be desired.

With respect to the increasing divisiveness you see in Sahebette's and BuddyL's descriptions of their relationships, I can verify that that happens with Mirage relationships, too.

To paraphrase the inimitable @niffer, Duality or GTFO.

[Rebelondeck]

@Adam Strange I deviate from Socionics in that I think that the relationships with the better potential for a meeting-of-the-minds are Dual, Super Ego, Semi-dual and Illusionary while the ones having the most potentially divergent perspectives are Benefit, Supervision, Quasi-identical and Mirror (being the worst). The rest are somewhere in between. However, all type combinations can form strong long-term relationships so long as common objectives and an acceptable division of roles (or labour?) can be established.

a.k.a. I/O

[FDG]

I only have mirrors as friends, but i´d find a close relationship with them quite difficult.
The difference in temperament (EJ-IP) makes them unpredictable to me, and our timing for each other predictability is wrong - I initially expect them to be predictable, they´re unpredictable (and I get screwed), then they realize they should be more predictable if they want to keep the friendship going, but I have formed a model in my mind of their behavior taking into account their unpredictabilty, so I react by being unpredictable myself, and they get pissed off since they tried to adapt to me...it´s not that easy to overcome.

I´m talking about personal friendships, at work it´s different, cooperation with mirror partners can be useful.

[BuddyL]

@Adam Strange, both Shaebette and BuddyL gave hints that I have seen in other such relationships as becoming increasingly divisive - the miscommunications, irritations and different needs. However, I think any two types can co-exist happily under the right set of conditions. As far as losing friends, I'm old-school and have looked all my friends directly in the eye; otherwise, they're only acquaintances. No one should take my advice at face value without first thinking about it themselves - one person's enlightenment is another's garbage.

a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, yes, any two types can co-exist under the right set of conditions. In particular, how much compromising they are willing to do, and how good they think a relationship can be.

Personally, I had no duals anywhere in my life growing up, and no examples of duals, so I thought that my parent's Mirror relationship (LSE-SLI) was a model of success. My parents seemed to get along, they rarely fought (but when they did, it was a blow-up, as if they had been harboring resentments for a long time), they loved and depended on each other, but they did nothing together, had no other friends, and their marriage seemed to be similar to two prisoners waiting out their life sentences in the same cell. My mother confided to my sister that sex was a distant memory for them.

I have pictures of them when they first met, and they seemed so happy. My SLI father had found an LSE woman exactly like his own LSE mother, only better, and my mother found a smart, hard working Delta introvert in law school whom she could boss around, who was similarly rational to and was a great improvement over her own old-country domineering LIE father.
Neither one was able to apply the kind of pressure on the other that they needed to be a working pair. Instead, they just kept to their separate ways and complained to us kids about the other one.

My LSE mother had a childhood IEE friend who lived in Denver with her husband, and when we were kids, our family went there to visit for a few days. I thought we had a great time, but we never went back. Recently, I was looking through old family albums, and I found a picture from that visit of my mother, my SLI father, and my mother's IEE friend sitting at a table. My father had the most unfamiliar expression on his face. He was happy, and so was the IEE, and my mother was looking puzzled and angry. My father still speaks warmly of the IEE. Ah, Socionics.

Having married (and divorced) a woman of the same type as my father, I can say that this method of selecting a mate (marrying a parent) leaves a lot to be desired.

With respect to the increasing divisiveness you see in Sahebette's and BuddyL's descriptions of their relationships, I can verify that that happens with Mirage relationships, too.

To paraphrase the inimitable @niffer, Duality or GTFO.

With all due respect to the "duality or bust" mentality, I don't think it's one I can personally live by. I understand non-dual relationships can have their difficulties, but at the same time my boyfriend is more than just a type, and I think it'd be silly for us to rule out marriage without giving it our best shot when we do happen to get along extremely well in the present. I know it can be seen as naive, but whether it can work or not, time will tell. But for now I'm pretty fine with our relationship. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned marriage too early on haha... we're both still quite young, and the future stresses me out anyway.

Also, as an introvert who hates socializing, I'm not going to make any bets I'm going to meet a good dual and everything will just work. If my mirror boyfriend and I happen to fall apart, sure, I'll go out and attempt to look for a dual, but as of now I won't think about that. In contrast to your parents' relationship, although it's a far younger relationship, my bf and I do happen to share similar hobbies, topics of interest, mutual friends, personal values, plenty to keep us going. I'd also like to mention the lack of passion is pretty much only felt from my end, as I am currently suffering from anxiety and bipolar depression, but my boyfriend tends to think we're good in that aspect. There are some things to work on, but I still feel like it's a pretty decent relationship overall.

I appreciate the personal stories and precautions about the relationship, any attempt to help is welcome. But I'd also prefer not to dwell on the negatives too much as I'm fully aware of them. So if anyone has any positive experiences with mirror relationships, those would be appreciated as well.

[Rebelondeck]

With all due respect to the "duality or bust" mentality, I don't think it's one I can personally live by............

I think that duality is only one factor and may not count for much in the grand scheme of things. So many other factors have to mesh in order for a relationship to be successful, and the success of a relationship is certainly not measured by its duration.

a.k.a. I/O

[Shytan]

@Rebelondeck As much as mirror relations have the bumps mentioned, there is no perfect relationship. I would feel stifled in a relationship with a dual or semi-dual, having been around such before. They are too different. I think that mirror relations have great potential for long term success, so I would say that your ITR theory is wrong. Super ego relations are pathetic, and I would say the best relationships are with members of your quadra.

[Rebelondeck]

@Rebelondeck As much as mirror relations have the bumps mentioned, there is no perfect relationship. I would feel stifled in a relationship with a dual or semi-dual, having been around such before. They are too different. I think that mirror relations have great potential for long term success, so I would say that your ITR theory is wrong. Super ego relations are pathetic, and I would say the best relationships are with members of your quadra.

I've been told my that my theory is wrong by countless people so you're not alone. However, I sense that you too have reached a conclusion and are searching for corroborating evidence.

a.k.a. I/O

[Raver]

@Rebelondeck As much as mirror relations have the bumps mentioned, there is no perfect relationship. I would feel stifled in a relationship with a dual or semi-dual, having been around such before. They are too different. I think that mirror relations have great potential for long term success, so I would say that your ITR theory is wrong. Super ego relations are pathetic, and I would say the best relationships are with members of your quadra.

My mentality is quadra or bust, rather than dual or bust. They say the top 4 ITRs are duality, identity, activity and mirror in that order. Finding a dual is ideal, but non-Socionics factors can possibly cause potential issues. If you and @BuddyL found a quadra mate without such issues then that is acceptable if not better. Long term quadra relationships are criminally underrated in this forum IMO.

[Olimpia]

My mentality is quadra or bust, rather than dual or bust. They say the top 4 ITRs are duality, identity, activity and mirror in that order. Finding a dual is ideal, but non-Socionics factors can possibly cause potential issues. If you and @BuddyL found a quadra mate without such issues then that is acceptable if not better. Long term quadra relationships are criminally underrated in this forum IMO.

Believing that Duality is gonna solve all relationship problems is just stupid.

There is no magic bullet. Sure, ITR stuff matters quite a lot. But so does mutual attraction, and sharing similar goals and values when it comes to your future together as a couple etc etc.

Same Quadra is good; Dual is even better; and Mirage, Semi Dual, Lookalike, and Kindred are acceptable. With the other relations, you should proceed with great caution. Opposite quadra is unacceptable. That's my general philosophy on ITR romance.

I've written more about the individual factors here.

The gist of the blog entry:

Of course the best match is both your Dual and meets (...) your standards.

Second best is someone who is your Identity, Mirror, or Activity partner and meets (...) your standards.

Third best is someone who is your Semi-Dual, Mirage partner, Look-a-like, or Kindred partner and meets (...) your standards.

P.S: ALL MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS ARE DIFFICULT (because we are not naturally monogamous forever). No matter whether you are Duals or not! So... again, expecting Duality to magically erase that issue is naive, imo.

[Rebelondeck]

..........Long term quadra relationships are criminally underrated in this forum IMO.

Are you suggesting that the longer a relationship lasts, the more successful it is? I have taken a different perspective on success: can types work together to complete this body of work or attain this objective? I have seen couples stick together through thick and thin for decades but they weren't happy, never really were a team and never worked on anything together including their kids; I'm sure they had their individual reasons to stick together but Socionics would not have been a good litmus test. Socionics is not the key to happiness but it may offer a clue toward being able to work together toward common goals (if that is indeed one's goal); even if duality existed, I doubt that an abortionist will ever have a comfortable relationship with a right-to-lifer.


a.k.a. I/O

[dot]

Believing that Duality is gonna solve all relationship problems is just stupid.

There is no magic bullet. Sure, ITR stuff matters quite a lot. But so does mutual attraction, and sharing similar goals and values when it comes to your future together as a couple etc etc.

Same Quadra is good; Dual is even better; and Mirage, Semi Dual, Lookalike, and Kindred are acceptable. With the other relations, you should proceed with great caution. Opposite quadra is unacceptable. That's my general philosophy on ITR romance.

I've written more about the individual factors here.

The gist of the blog entry:

Of course the best match is both your Dual and meets (...) your standards.

Second best is someone who is your Identity, Mirror, or Activity partner and meets (...) your standards.

Third best is someone who is your Semi-Dual, Mirage partner, Look-a-like, or Kindred partner and meets (...) your standards.

P.S: ALL MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS ARE DIFFICULT (because we are not naturally monogamous forever). No matter whether you are Duals or not! So... again, expecting Duality to magically erase that issue is naive, imo.

I agree my parents (mother and stepfather) are ESE and SEE and both are by far happier/ more succesful after being together for 15 years than some other couples I have seen.. idk. No matter what socionics says I hope they stay together. Thing is both let the other a lot of freedom to fulfill their needs, my mother can live out her caretaker tendencies/ Fe and Si related stuff, while my father is able to do lots of Se and Fi(?) related stuff. Both als have tons of experiences with relationships, so I guess with the right kind of maturity and life experiences and a healthy mind things can work out too.

[Adam Strange]

Are you suggesting that the longer a relationship lasts, the more successful it is? I have taken a different perspective on success: can types work together to complete this body of work or attain this objective? I have seen couples stick together through thick and thin for decades but they weren't happy, never really were a team and never worked on anything together including their kids; I'm sure they had their individual reasons to stick together but Socionics would not have been a good litmus test. Socionics is not the key to happiness but it may offer a clue toward being able to work together toward common goals (if that is indeed one's goal); even if duality existed, I doubt that an abortionist will ever have a comfortable relationship with a right-to-lifer.
a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, this bolded statement of yours is so true.

My parents are Mirrors, and they have been married for longer than I have been alive. They stick together, but they never do anything together. As I said, their lives together are a jail sentence, and now that my mother's mind is going, I can tell that my SLI father is thinking of his future with someone more compatible (an IEE, in particular). Their parenting method was for my mother to raise the kids and my father stayed at work as much as humanly possible. On the weekends, he would do National guard activities. My clearest memory of him was of him asleep on the couch after dinner in his suit, and he would leave for the office before anyone else got up and would come home after we had dinner. Basically, he made his marriage tolerable by never being in it.

As for my own supervision marriage, we also never agreed on how to discipline our son. I would insist that he get a job, any job, and she would say he was fine with bad grades and zero work experience. It was a major, major source of friction in our marriage. He has turned out to be a smart, very helpful kid, but he does exactly what he wants and nothing that he doesn't want, and if he didn't stand to inherit shitloads of money from my parents (he is their only grandson - I wonder why?) and his mother, I don't know what he'd do.

As for my wife and I being a team, we were never that. We liked each other, we got along, we made and saved money, but she hid tons of it away until the divorce. Her sister is her dual, and I always knew that if there were room in the lifeboats for only one of us, my wife would save her sister instead of me.

Some of my recent GF's have asked me about my relationship with my ex-wife, since we are in touch and seem to be friends. They wonder if we will get back together. Lol. That is an absolutely insane idea. Sorry, I've experienced duality since then.

You have to agree on values in a relationship. That is so, so important.

[Raver]

Believing that Duality is gonna solve all relationship problems is just stupid.

There is no magic bullet. Sure, ITR stuff matters quite a lot. But so does mutual attraction, and sharing similar goals and values when it comes to your future together as a couple etc etc.

Same Quadra is good; Dual is even better; and Mirage, Semi Dual, Lookalike, and Kindred are acceptable. With the other relations, you should proceed with great caution. Opposite quadra is unacceptable. That's my general philosophy on ITR romance.

I've written more about the individual factors here.

The gist of the blog entry:

Of course the best match is both your Dual and meets (...) your standards.

Second best is someone who is your Identity, Mirror, or Activity partner and meets (...) your standards.

Third best is someone who is your Semi-Dual, Mirage partner, Look-a-like, or Kindred partner and meets (...) your standards.

P.S: ALL MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS ARE DIFFICULT (because we are not naturally monogamous forever). No matter whether you are Duals or not! So... again, expecting Duality to magically erase that issue is naive, imo.

Yeah, I share the same sentiments. You hit the nail on the head Olimpia with this post.

Are you suggesting that the longer a relationship lasts, the more successful it is? I have taken a different perspective on success: can types work together to complete this body of work or attain this objective? I have seen couples stick together through thick and thin for decades but they weren't happy, never really were a team and never worked on anything together including their kids; I'm sure they had their individual reasons to stick together but Socionics would not have been a good litmus test. Socionics is not the key to happiness but it may offer a clue toward being able to work together toward common goals (if that is indeed one's goal); even if duality existed, I doubt that an abortionist will ever have a comfortable relationship with a right-to-lifer.


a.k.a. I/O

No, not at all. I'm saying that within quadra, these inter-type relations are the best and most successful in the long term in this order: duality, identity, activity and mirror. Of course, long-term relationships can last for a long period of time with opposing quadras, but they will not be happy with each other due to communication issues.

I know opposing quadra marriages that have lasted for decades and they are not happy with each other in contrast to within quadra marriages that have lasted for decades and are happy with each other. The point of my post is that duality is overrated in this forum and within quadra relationships are underrated in this forum.

Ideally, you want to strive for your dual as that is the best partner to have in the long term, but if you cannot, looking for within your quadra for a partner is completely acceptable especially if other factors make this better. The whole point of Socionics inter-type relations is to strive for long-term relationships within your quadra.

[Olimpia]

@Adam Strange has only witnessed unhappy or broken long term relationships in his personal life, and the people in it weren't Duals, so his only conclusion is that Duality would solve all the problems, and that if they had been Duals, it would all have been different. Maybe, maybe not.

Again, long-term monogamous relationships are difficult in general, no matter the ITR. With a Dual couple, even the effortless interaction could become boring in the long run. One partner could see some hot person in the grocery store, or at work, and the different sociotype could make them seem more novel, different, exciting. Someone who is married to their Dual could fancy the hot neighbor across the street, who also happens to be the Mirror, so there is something exciting and new about this person. At the end of the day, we are all just animals, and there are limitations even to Duality.

The main limitation of the ITR theory is the factor attraction. People are attracted to all kinds of types besides their Dual, typically (thanks to the Imago or just generally hot people being around). Even when you are in a happy Dual relationship, you'll find other people attractive. A Dual who is even more attractive to you than your current partner could show up and show interest in you. What would you do then? The key in that instance, is personal values. By and large, the main thing that doesn't make people stray and mate with other primates (hehe) is not primarily ITR-related, but predominately based on the person's values. Only if cheating is not an option in their minds will they refrain from doing so. Otherwise, they'd just have sex with the hotter Dual who came along.

Ofc being in a happy, good relationship is influenced by ITR, and it helps a lot when it comes to deciding whether someone wants to cheat or not, but at the end of the day there will always be hot people around, and even Duality (alone) cannot prevent people from straying or at least having the desire for it.

[Rebelondeck]

.......... but they will not be happy with each other due to communication issues.........
.......... The whole point of Socionics inter-type relations is to strive for long-term relationships within your quadra.

I think there is a much bigger issue than communication and that is direction; if people are not travelling the same path, they won't be together at the end. I think the objective of Socionics intertype should be to determine if people are on the same path. Communication difficulties are usually of shorter duration and can be worked around if people are willing - willingness is key however because many don't try to adapt.

a.k.a. I/O

[dot]

I wouldn't even dare to say that someone can judge people's happiness through the 'opposing' quadra rule.. or whatever. We have no right to tell someone if they are happy or not.
Just saying because of the comments above.

[Raver]

I think there is a much bigger issue than communication and that is direction; if people are not travelling the same path, they won't be together at the end. I think the objective of Socionics intertype should be to determine if people are on the same path. Communication difficulties are usually of shorter duration and can be worked around if people are willing - willingness is key however because many don't try to adapt.

a.k.a. I/O

No doubt, that is why within quadra relationships, inter-type relations will be better in the long term compared to opposing quadras relationships and neighboring quadra relationships being somewhere in between.

[Rebelondeck]

No doubt, that is why within quadra relationships, inter-type relations will be better in the long term compared to opposing quadras relationships and neighboring quadra relationships being somewhere in between.

Not really. Input versus output oriented becomes a big player so one has to look at root temperament, but I've alluded to this before in several other posts.

a.k.a. I/O

[Raver]

Not really. Input versus output oriented becomes a big player so one has to look at root temperament, but I've alluded to this before in several other posts.

a.k.a. I/O

I have no idea of what you're talking about, don't obfuscate when there's no need to.

[Rebelondeck]

I have no idea of what you're talking about, don't obfuscate when there's no need to.

Perhaps these articles will show from where I'm coming; it'll take a while to sift through my posts. Like I had said before, I don't like much of the wording in the earlier articles because I unsuccessfully tried to use Socionics speak in some of them, but you may get the gist.
http://www.socionics.com/articles/thestrength.html
http://www.socionics.com/articles/mytake.html
http://www.socionics.com/articles/int_ext.html
http://www.socionics.com/articles/soc_pref_io.html
http://www.socionics.com/articles/behavetemp.html
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tterns-by-I-O?
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...of-it!-by-I-O?

a.k.a. I/O

[Rebelondeck]

many Ti and Te leads have very intense relationships with their dual and semi-dual Fe and Fi leads..........Creative Fe and creative Fi are so much less high-strung than Fe and Fi leading.......

Even in secondary modes, I don't equate dominant Ti with generating intensity although it may be done to them but they'll first try to step back rather than engage, and dominant Fi can frequently wind itself tight simply because it's not a perfect world.

a.k.a. I/O

[FDG]

Just quickly interjecting.

Long-term relationships don´t have to be romantic.

You may very well refer to a work or personal relationship, without the romantic monogamous component.

I think socionics wants to evaluate this type of relationship, too, since it comprises the largest amount of our daily interactions.

[Rebelondeck]

Just quickly interjecting.

Long-term relationships don´t have to be romantic.

You may very well refer to a work or personal relationship, without the romantic monogamous component.

I think socionics wants to evaluate this type of relationship, too, since it comprises the largest amount of our daily interactions.

I think this is the most fruitful use of Socionics because when libido and animal attraction are in control, objective analysis is out the window. Even for a third party analysis, observations likely have a huge feral component. Socionics can perhaps be used to analyse a failed romantic relationship if indeed objectivity can be regained.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Bethanyclaire]

@Adam Strange I deviate from Socionics in that I think that the relationships with the better potential for a meeting-of-the-minds are Dual, Super Ego, Semi-dual and Illusionary while the ones having the most potentially divergent perspectives are Benefit, Supervision, Quasi-identical and Mirror (being the worst). The rest are somewhere in between. However, all type combinations can form strong long-term relationships so long as common objectives and an acceptable division of roles (or labour?) can be established.

a.k.a. I/O

hmm there seem to be quite a few mirror couples around though? I think I would find a mirror relationship the easiest to start. They are the only ones I seem to notice on dating apps at least.

Do you think that mirror relationships between particular types are less common? For example, they might be less common between thinkers? (LIE and ILI) or (ILE and LII). I have seen examples of mirror couples for all the feeler types..also between SLE and LSI.

They seem to be good couples. My SEE brother is a changed man since being with his ESI haha.

I had a look at your list in your article 'the strength in relationships'. I think you are correct about super-ego, semi-duality and illusionary being in the top 4 for relationship strength but I think maybe mirror comes next after those..roughly! Maybe I'm wrong..maybe mirrors are just the easiest to start out of the 5.

I've never really been strongly attracted to semi-duals/ illusionary or super-ego types but I do think I could be, if I was looking out for them more. However, something doesn't quite appeal about them..based on the friends I have of these types. It's like there would be 'something missing'? I wonder if they would have the same amount of problems as mirrors, just different problems..or the mirror might have a stronger connection but more practical problems?

If seems like duals have by far the least problems..and it's hard to know which ITR is the next best. Really, it does come down to the individual..I have been attracted to most types at one point or another I suppose (though not recommending all types!)

It's extra hard when you're in a pandemic and relying on dating apps and photographs and profiles, rather than real life. rubbish lol

sorry i've just realised how old the post is i'm commenting on!

edit: maybe i am just scared of duality? this is not for you to answer i know but it may be true

[Rebelondeck]

@BethanyR Mirrors tend perceive things similarly and in that sense, they may initially find commonality rather attractive; however, both tend to assume similar roles within a project or a household so treading on each others toes is quite common - also because they rarely agree on priorities, objectives and or approaches. It's doubtful that your brother and his wife will be able to successfully pursue truly joint ventures unless one is recognized by the other as the leader due to superior intellect, education, drive, resources and or status - and even then. It's when they're even in everything (true mirrors) and when they also have to depend on one another that problems seem to surface quickly.

a.k.a. I/O

[Bethanyclaire]

@BethanyR Mirrors tend perceive things similarly and in that sense, they may initially find commonality rather attractive; however, both tend to assume similar roles within a project or a household so treading on each others toes is quite common - also because they rarely agree on priorities, objectives and or approaches. It's doubtful that your brother and his wife will be able to successfully pursue truly joint ventures unless one is recognized by the other as the leader due to superior intellect, education, drive, resources and or status - and even then. It's when they're even in everything (true mirrors) and when they also have to depend on one another that problems seem to surface quickly.

a.k.a. I/O

interesting..well I think it would be hard to tell if someone was a 'true mirror' or not, that sounds like it might seem good at first! so it's something to think about. I suppose when I think about the mirror couples I know, they do seem quite independent (each quite focused on their careers, and maybe one of them pushed the other to be that way) and they seem to 'bond' over shared interests (holidays, outings, watching tv together). So maybe it is not exactly the 'meeting of the minds' you mention about other relationships..They do seem to admire each other though.

hmm perhaps I could see myself feeling a bit trapped with a mirror, because I might expect more from them that they can give. A little like I do with my IEE friends. Thanks for your comments, it's something to think about!

and no offense to IEEs, they're good mates

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

The biggest thing with mirrors is mostly the Ep-Ij clash or the Ej-Ip clash.

Ip/ep, Ij/ej compatibility is often where a lot of times an INFp will prefer to be around even an ENFp because of how comforting and harmonizing it can be to the Ej of his own quadra. ENFjs often find INFps too soft and weak and INFps find ENFjs too harsh and prickly. I think a few times I was viewed as 'not having enough confidence' for ENFjs but my confidence levels were more than fine. My Ip energy was just irritating to them and vice versa.

It's often an underrated kind of Si-ish comfort thing- like it just feels good. But problems with ENTps/ENFps and to a lesser extent ESFps & ESTps still exist for an INFp - but they don't have this comfort issue.

Mirrors will often agree with each other though. It can be very friendly and even loving if they can accept each other's energy better but I think they often avoid each other or take each other 'in small doses' because of the energy clash thing. Mirrors feel much more respectable when they are empowering and cheerleading each other more from a safe distance rather than getting too directly involved.

I also wonder sometimes if the extroverted Mirror will over value the Introverted mirror too much, think of them as a "precious thing that needs their saving" and the Introverted one will not know how to communicate what they really think of the Mirror without misunderstanding or miscommunication. It's often usually very positive- just hard for the introvert to express. Or if that's just an IEI-EIE thing I've often experienced myself lol.

[The Reality Denialist]

According to my experience my mirrors often need SNRI's.

[Rebelondeck]

.....hmm perhaps I could see myself feeling a bit trapped with a mirror, because I might expect more from them that they can give. A little like I do with my IEE friends.......

IEEs don't usually make IEIs feel trapped although they can be overly nosy at times and many have a knack for uncovering closely kept secrets; most IEEs (like SLEs) can easily be told to go away because they, by nature, tend to give lots of space to others and to be metaphorically absent a lot - personal freedom is the mantra of most Eps. Now, EIEs have been known to invade the space of others so I can understand IEIs getting trapped feelings from their behaviour and perhaps reacting badly to perceived assaults even though none were intended.

a.k.a. I/O

[Bethanyclaire]

IEEs don't usually make IEIs feel trapped although they can be overly nosy at times and many have a knack for uncovering closely kept secrets; most IEEs (like SLEs) can easily be told to go away because they, by nature, tend to give lots of space to others and to be metaphorically absent a lot - personal freedom is the mantra of most Eps. Now, EIEs have been known to invade the space of others so I can understand IEIs getting trapped feelings from their behaviour and perhaps reacting badly to perceived assaults even though none were intended.

a.k.a. I/O

Maybe I’ve just been through some bad patches with them before I learnt about socionics, or as I’ve been learning about it. They can pressure me into stuff sometimes..can be good but not necessarily.


The friendships seem to be better now I’m not trying so hard to please them. I do this too much generally, and I never realised how exhausting it was until I tried having some breaks from speaking to people. I don’t want to be intolerant of my friends but I do know it’s unhealthy to put my friendships before everything else in my life. This feels important to me atm anyway. So I can better acknowledge deeper feelings of loneliness or boredom in myself. Also just to have space and some time just for me.


Also I wouldn’t worry quite so much about disagreeing with IEEs now.


I had an EIE bestie in high school but we grew apart when our lives took different paths. I think we will reconnect though. It’s true I remember feeling like I was being attacked or like she was lying about things/being selfish, on occasions, but on reflection she was probably just worried about me or being overprotective.

[UDP]

I think some people are much better suited or balanced out by their mirrors than others.
It's too similar for me, but it seems to work or last more for others who prefer the similarity.
I also think it's 'easier' for ethical types tbh, especially if they are higher Sx / sx oriented.
Two mirror T types, probably especially STs, feels quite blockly and lacking traction?

[Bethanyclaire]

Mirrors/look a likes make me laugh. (Not all..but often). And I feel like they get my ‘sad’ side. I’d always be on the look out for these types as friends at the least.

[Scarlett]

hmm there seem to be quite a few mirror couples around though? I think I would find a mirror relationship the easiest to start. They are the only ones I seem to notice on dating apps at least.

Do you think that mirror relationships between particular types are less common? For example, they might be less common between thinkers? (LIE and ILI) or (ILE and LII). I have seen examples of mirror couples for all the feeler types..also between SLE and LSI.

They seem to be good couples. My SEE brother is a changed man since being with his ESI haha.

I had a look at your list in your article 'the strength in relationships'. I think you are correct about super-ego, semi-duality and illusionary being in the top 4 for relationship strength but I think maybe mirror comes next after those..roughly! Maybe I'm wrong..maybe mirrors are just the easiest to start out of the 5.

I've never really been strongly attracted to semi-duals/ illusionary or super-ego types but I do think I could be, if I was looking out for them more. However, something doesn't quite appeal about them..based on the friends I have of these types. It's like there would be 'something missing'? I wonder if they would have the same amount of problems as mirrors, just different problems..or the mirror might have a stronger connection but more practical problems?

If seems like duals have by far the least problems..and it's hard to know which ITR is the next best. Really, it does come down to the individual..I have been attracted to most types at one point or another I suppose (though not recommending all types!)

It's extra hard when you're in a pandemic and relying on dating apps and photographs and profiles, rather than real life. rubbish lol

sorry i've just realised how old the post is i'm commenting on!

edit: maybe i am just scared of duality? this is not for you to answer i know but it may be true

Hahah this is so funny, one of my best friends is an IEI, this post sounds just like her.

Which ITR is the next best? Go for your activator!

I've seen the interaction between female IEI and male LSI, it's amazing.
An LSI is actually my type, and he's my mirage, but even so, like you said, something's missing. There are some moments where I realise he doesn't completely get me. But when he's with my IEI friend, I can see they mesh really well.

But the funny thing is, my IEI friend is in relationship with an ESI (which is my dual), and there's always problems and disconnection between both of them, but they get through everything so all good. We're all close friends but the ESI always comes to me, seems like I'm the only one who really gets him, again, we mesh really well.

Anyway,
Like I said, after dual, I think the next best thing is activation. Positive.

About mirror, I've dated a mirror before.
It's good, we're NTJ's are very rare so it feels good when you meet someone who's exactly like you. Well, not really exactly the same, but you know, we're very similar.
Similar strength, similar weakness, we're both logical, we're both strong, it's just like the Underwoods couple in House Of Cards.
Not very warm, but who needs warmness anyway. We're romantic in our own way. We're both really independent and like others said, we both very focus in our success.
We broke up because he moved overseas for his study/work. It's a good experience. We were young anyway. But I always knew I wouldn't spend the rest of my life with him.
A year after that I also moved overseas, but different country, lol.


The point is, if you're in a mirror relationship, just be aware both parties have the same strength and weakness, don't expect them to change to become like your own dual because they're not.
And, if both parties are F (feeling type), I think it's better, because if you both are thinkers then it's not going to be warm sweet romantic, but when you both are very logical who needs those nonsense.


But yeah, if we're talking about really long term relationship, like 40-50 years, I imagine dual or activity are still better than mirror.

[Scarlett]

-double post-

[Bethanyclaire]

Hahah this is so funny, one of my best friends is an IEI, this post sounds just like her.

Which ITR is the next best? Go for your activator!

I've seen the interaction between female IEI and male LSI, it's amazing.
An LSI is actually my type, and he's my mirage, but even so, like you said, something's missing. There are some moments where I realise he doesn't completely get me. But when he's with my IEI friend, I can see they mesh really well.

But the funny thing is, my IEI friend is in relationship with an ESI (which is my dual), and there's always problems and disconnection between both of them, but they get through everything so all good. We're all close friends but the ESI always comes to me, seems like I'm the only one who really gets him, again, we mesh really well.

Anyway,
Like I said, after dual, I think the next best thing is activation. Positive.

About mirror, I've dated a mirror before.
It's good, we're NTJ's are very rare so it feels good when you meet someone who's exactly like you. Well, not really exactly the same, but you know, we're very similar.
Similar strength, similar weakness, we're both logical, we're both strong, it's just like the Underwoods couple in House Of Cards.
Not very warm, but who needs warmness anyway. We're romantic in our own way. We're both really independent and like others said, we both very focus in our success.
We broke up because he moved overseas for his study/work. It's a good experience. We were young anyway. But I always knew I wouldn't spend the rest of my life with him.
A year after that I also moved overseas, but different country, lol.


The point is, if you're in a mirror relationship, just be aware both parties have the same strength and weakness, don't expect them to change to become like your own dual because they're not.
And, if both parties are F (feeling type), I think it's better, because if you both are thinkers then it's not going to be warm sweet romantic, but when you both are very logical who needs those nonsense.


But yeah, if we're talking about really long term relationship, like 40-50 years, I imagine dual or activity are still better than mirror.

Thanks for your comments! Yes..I think I agree with what you're saying about mirrors. I think a lot of mirror couples do get together quite young and some of them will last but lots will out grow each other.

I am not opposed to an activity partner but it's not a type I'm naturally attracted to. Maybe they are just a bit awkward on first dates! I think I find I can find their 'se' a bit intense on a first date lol. My little brother is an adorable LSI so I know it can be a nice relationship. Really, I want to be be open-minded as I want to meet someone and don't want to wait tooo long. We are coming out of lock down soon haha.

The types I don't want to date (at this point in my life) would be: conflictor, quasi-identical, benefit..and not keen on contrary or supervision. Not sure about look-a-like or kindred as I have a lot friends of this type already and maybe that's enough And I think it is probably wise to be cautious about mirrors- they'd need to be a really really good one.