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Thread: So, How to date a dual and do I have one or is duality a myth?

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    1) find a dual
    2) learn to date a dual
    3) learn to duel a dual

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    Its always the same story: duality exists, but only if youre on the same page with everything else. Aka, duality doesnt really do anything, because apparently other factors are more important. So why even bother if duality can only manifest itself correctly when all other needs are met. Does it even exist on its own then, or is the "joy" and "energizing" and all that shit simply a product of love of a person with whom you are on the same page with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've had relationships which were primarily sexual, but they didn't last. With LTR's, it has been friendship first.

    One weird thing (to keep this thread on-topic) is that, while I like talking and spending time with my duals, I don't find them instantly hot the way I do Mirage partners. This reaction might be specific to me, since I haven't read about it anywhere else. I've met some incredibly, objectively hot female duals, and I kind of do not connect their hotness to a desire for action the way I do with Mirage types. I have a more "I like you. I think we could get along" reaction to duals.



    I'd like to hear from other LIE's about this, to see if their reactions are the same. I could explain my approach by saying that I'm subconsciously anticipating that ESI's don't want to be desired for their beauty alone, since that can change, but I might be stretching things here to account for some unfortunate bending of my mental twigs.
    yeah lsi women are sexy and they are also usually quite forward...

    they usually have completely different circle of friends and expectations about life though.

    I also have many LSI male friends. We usually do sports or Se-related activities together. But I can´t hang out with their friends, and they can´t easily hang out with mine.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    Conflict are always the same. E3 or E8 LIE with SEI E9. I know of 3 couples like this IRL. The SEI is always a E9.
    You might have mistyped them and they are maybe actually duals.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    As if dating isn't hard enough already!
    I would stimulate the groin area. Your dual should respond favourably to that.

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    I've been platonically dating an ESI Dual for several months now. We've gone out to eat and gone on short day trips but she's been holding me at arm's length.
    Our dating schedule started out as one date every six weeks, then four weeks, then three, and on our last date, she wanted to go out again a week later, but then she cancelled at the last minute, "because she had to work" on a weekend.

    Yesterday, my LSE buddy called me to say hi.
    "How's your love life, guy?", he said, brightly.
    "About the same. Nothing's changed."
    "I just called to check up on you. I saw a different car in your driveway a few days ago. It was there overnight."

    Lol. This guy needs to get a life.

    "That was a rental van. I got it to move a saw I bought, and I returned it yesterday.
    "I actually had a date scheduled with this woman I'm seeing, but she cancelled at the last minute."

    "Oh." He sounded crestfallen, like the world had ended. "Well, there are more girls out there. You'll find one."

    "I'm not worried. I'm going to let this one sit for a while and think about it. We've been having these eight-hour dates on the weekend, and I'm pretty sure she's Dualized whether she knows it or not. I'm just going to wait for her to realize that she misses me."

    "What?" My LSE buddy couldn't believe it. In that one word, he made it clear that he thinks that she's gone and I'm delusional. Well, there is a possibility that he's right, to be honest. But instead of going there, I said
    "Yeah. We've been on eight hour dates, Don! Duality works like that. Two people don't think that they have anything in common, then after they spend enough time together and then are apart, they start to realize that they miss the other person."

    "Uh huh." Long, long pause. Then, "Hey, do you still have those transistor numbers I need to buy? I can't seem to find your email."

    "Yeah, I'll text them to you."

    And I'll hope that I'm right and that she'll call or text for another date. Lol. We'll see.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-26-2021 at 04:43 PM.

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    Well, I might have met one. He seems pretty shy for an SLE though. A bit SLI-ish. I think there needs to be more alcohol involved on our outings, for our personalities to come out..He seems alright, we are just friends atm. However, there is another dual that looks interesting too. Hm.

    Compared to other dates I’ve had with duals it’s a lot better
    Last edited by Bethany; 05-03-2021 at 05:46 PM.

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    So I had a bit of a sleepless night last night, but I had some thoughts I wanted to share. I’ve met up with a dual a couple of times recently and can’t tell if I like him. What came to me whilst lying awake, comparing the dual to the last person I liked..well I don’t know if the dual resembles my ‘imago’ enough (imago=someone like my dad). It’s a psychological theory that we are attracted to people like the parent of opposite sex, for security seeking reasons or something.

    And then it suddenly came to me that I spoke to a guy on an app a few months ago (who I think is a dual) and I think I prefer him. I know I haven’t met him but well, I want to message him again. He has dark hair and eyes like guys I often go for, and there is something soulful and cheeky about his look. Like my dad, at his best. Maybe this imago stuff is important.
    Last edited by Bethany; 05-07-2021 at 08:05 AM.

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    I think that Imago stuff is very important. The LSIs that I have dated both looked like my LSE mother when I was very young. Slender and short dark hair. I just have this magnetic attraction to women like this.

    I’m currently dating a Dual who has long brown hair and she’s attractive, but intellectually so, not viscerally so.

    My new hair cutter is a female LSI. Slender and dark-haired and single and unsuitable in every way that my two previous LSI GFs were, plus some, and I tell myself that I’m not going to go there in the slightest respect and yet I find myself looking at her, thinking No but feeling Yes, and I thank god I’m not entirely stupid.

    Imago counts for a lot. It was one of the first layers of stone put down when the foundation was built, so it’s pretty important in determining how the building will go. But it’s not everything. It’s not fate, or necessarily even a good idea.

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    My mind’s going round in circles. Maybe, maybe I am simply comparing this current dual dude to the last guy I liked too much. Or he just wasn’t at his best the second time I saw him. Or maybe his look is just a bit different to what I go for. Yeah I should probably see him again. The first time I met him was years ago, in a club. He tried to dance with me, and I said no. (I didn’t want to hook up with anyone at the time, but I did sort of think..he seems ok though). So, there was some attraction. Then I got back in touch with him recently. Similarly to what you say @Adam Strange, there is possibly a good intellectual connection- we both like the same music so that’s quite a good thing and could be really fun to enjoy that together. Maybe there are more layers to peel..hmm

    thank you guys, it means a lot to get input on this.

    I also recently ENDED correspondence with the guy I used to like so I am probably still letting go of that a bit
    Last edited by Bethany; 05-07-2021 at 05:42 PM.

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    Yeah none of the guys I’ve liked a lot in the past were right for me, it’s true. Maybe they were too much of an ‘ideal’ based on imago or were similar to me.

    Maybe gut feeling is not everything..

    He seems very much like a Creative subtype at least.
    Last edited by Bethany; 05-07-2021 at 05:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Imago counts for a lot. It was one of the first layers of stone put down when the foundation was built, so it’s pretty important in determining how the building will go. But it’s not everything. It’s not fate, or necessarily even a good idea.
    Uh huh. It’s complex I guess!

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    @Bethany, Re: Music: For reference, Gazelle from Zootopia is clearly IEI. Her Tiger dancers, of course, are SLE.

    https://imgur.com/a/OXtq491


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efsXt-H5t-0

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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    I thought the imago was more psychological than physical? Both my parents are Indian but I have been mostly attracted to white guys...

    but I don’t know...my type seems to vary in many ways esp. concerning physical features, socionics types etc. I don’t think I see traits of my father in them in any substantial way (aside from traits that anyone could have like being quiet or introverted). Eh...yeah. I guess I don’t approach the imago thing from that POV (that there’s some impression of your parent in people you like).
    I just realised that the one dual I really really liked back at uni was E7 (a good E7). I’m more familiar with 7s than 8s (siblings are 7s) and this new guy is an 8 so I guess that’s a bit of getting used to.

    Hm I’m not sure how the imago works. Maybe it’s a mix of familiarity but also reminding you of yourself somehow.

    Also I suppose you don’t want them to remind you too much of your parents. (Defo not too like my mum, sorry mum lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Bethany, Re: Music: For reference, Gazelle from Zootopia is clearly IEI. Her Tiger dancers, of course, are SLE.

    https://imgur.com/a/OXtq491


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efsXt-H5t-0
    I can see the resemblance... I always say that I can only dance good when the music’s good

    Also, SLE seem to find my lack of music knowledge funny. I just can’t hide it in front of them.

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    Yep I am most attracted to Cs, not always but often. But not the right Cs. There have only really been a couple of Estps I was physically attracted to..they were all e7 actually. The current guy at least has nice C eyes..


    Funnily, a really cute SLE-H I met once actually resembles the SEI-C I liked recently. Same smile. Same smile as my SEE brother too. We’re all just mirrors of each other lol.

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    I've mainly been attracted to Hs but honestly can work with anyone on the CH axis. DN on the other hand is just stressful to deal with.

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    Ever since I learnt about socionics I’ve been keeping an eye out for SLEs on dating apps. I think I was able to spot some fairly quickly as I’d already learnt about mbti and enneagram. That was around a year and half ago. In that time I think I may have matched with 2 cute duals but I ended up unmatching them. Don’t really know why, just happened for whatever reason. Wasn’t really ready to date. I think they do exist but this makes me think it would take around a year to match with one I liked again and that’s too long to wait lol. (In early 30s)
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-07-2021 at 01:49 PM.

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    Find the person you are able to relax around and be yourself with.

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    Love is stronger than duality.
    “Preferiría no hacerlo”

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    Tbh I sort of just cluelessly ended up with my dual. Had no idea. I wasn't even into Socionics much until recently realizing I was mistyped and seeing that my real type doesn't make me think the system is just garbage. I don't fully subscribe to duality theory (or any other theory, really). I think typology should be taken with a grain of salt. With that said, my partner and I had a lot of chemistry at first, but then we had some compatibility issues for a while, most of which pertained to communication. I wasn't even sure whether our friendship would remain intact back then, let alone more. We finally worked through those and it was like everything clicked into place from there. We still have conflicts, we just are able to resolve them now and we weren't able to before.

    The main point I'm trying to contribute here is that people seem to have this ideal in their minds when it comes to duality, as though it's all going to be easy and there won't be too many compatibility problems. I actually had worse ones with him than I did with anyone else I've been close with. On the other hand, I've never been in a relationship that's this serious and certain before.

    We do both relate to intertype dynamics but they aren't everything. I just see those dynamics as things that make the relationship more satisfying or fulfilling, not things that make it require less work. We meet each others' needs and desires because those dynamics just so happen to be present in a way we can relate with Socionics duality, but duality is not something that means you won't have problems that make you feel as though you can't possibly be duals and are probably conflictors at some point.

    People usually don't fit their types to a T so your dual may not even be what you're hoping they will be. Sometimes those deviations can be positives though, too...so venturing outside of type matchmaking can be a positive thing.

    Your dual isn't necessarily what you even want in someone. If I matched certain stereotypes about my type's leading function my boyfriend would hate it, lol. Then there's also the fact that my Socionics type is supposed to be conservative and traditional, but I'm strongly opposite of that and that was one of the main things that initially attracted us to each other in the beginning (and still does). We both prefer outside of the box thinking and being progressive because we value autonomy and independent thinking.

    With that in mind, there's not much point in seeking a dual if you ask me. Relationships require work and love is what makes people willing to work through things. That is what's most important. Compatibility increases in time when you're in a relationship because of all the things you've worked through, compromises you've established, and so on. I think it's naive and too idealistic for people to expect immediate compatibility based on duality. One of many reasons is that there are so many non-type related dynamics involved with that. Character, whether you speak the same language fluently or accidentally use the wrong words and create misunderstandings which cause fights, common interests, the influence your life experiences have had on you both, and so on.

    Duality just isn't necessary or important. What matters is simply finding a healthy relationship in which there is mutual love, trust, openness, and so on.
    Last edited by Noir; 10-07-2021 at 06:59 PM.
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    Actually, I have loved a dual before, although I wasn’t with him. In fact I knew 2 duals in my university years. I really wasn’t confident back then and not really ready for a relationship due to personal reasons. In the first week of uni an SLE randomly joined my house mates and I at a bar and he quickly became part of our little group. I liked him as a friend straight away and maybe if I hadn’t had my own issues I might have been interested. As I got to know him, I did question whether I liked him and I have some pages in a diary somewhere where I write enthusiastically about how enthusiastic he is haha. He was a good friend for a year and yes he liked me I’m pretty sure and was told later on. He left at the end of the year to do other things and I remember feeling sad.

    In my second year I heard that another guy liked me and this time I was interested back. But my anxiety had got so bad I talked myself out of letting anything happen or at least I put it off. He was around in the art studio and I was glad I got to see him sometimes. At some point he started seeing someone else. Even though I was sad I do remember at various points of the year just feeling happy he existed etc lol. He was def a dual. Later on I liked an EIE and most recently an SEI, and the feelings for them were deep/fierce and quite beautiful at times for the SEI, but later on too intense.

    I remember looking back on my feelings for the SLE and thinking ‘aw, wish it could have happened, however would it have lasted? I thought he seemed too sweet or nice or something lol. (Could have been fine though haha). That was before I knew about socionics.

    I don’t mind that I probs won’t end up with a dual- this girl is happy she’s overcome her mental health problems and finally has a shot at finding love. I still think that dual I liked was a good example of what love should feel like. I do want to find someone sweet/nice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    So I had a bit of a sleepless night last night, but I had some thoughts I wanted to share. I’ve met up with a dual a couple of times recently and can’t tell if I like him. What came to me whilst lying awake, comparing the dual to the last person I liked..well I don’t know if the dual resembles my ‘imago’ enough (imago=someone like my dad). It’s a psychological theory that we are attracted to people like the parent of opposite sex, for security seeking reasons or something.

    And then it suddenly came to me that I spoke to a guy on an app a few months ago (who I think is a dual) and I think I prefer him. I know I haven’t met him but well, I want to message him again. He has dark hair and eyes like guys I often go for, and there is something soulful and cheeky about his look. Like my dad, at his best. Maybe this imago stuff is important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think that Imago stuff is very important. The LSIs that I have dated both looked like my LSE mother when I was very young. Slender and short dark hair. I just have this magnetic attraction to women like this.

    I’m currently dating a Dual who has long brown hair and she’s attractive, but intellectually so, not viscerally so.

    My new hair cutter is a female LSI. Slender and dark-haired and single and unsuitable in every way that my two previous LSI GFs were, plus some, and I tell myself that I’m not going to go there in the slightest respect and yet I find myself looking at her, thinking No but feeling Yes, and I thank god I’m not entirely stupid.

    Imago counts for a lot. It was one of the first layers of stone put down when the foundation was built, so it’s pretty important in determining how the building will go. But it’s not everything. It’s not fate, or necessarily even a good idea.
    I'm not new to this imago stuff.
    Like I said before, my type of guy is always an SLI or LSI, just like my LSE dad. And it will never change I guess. Let's see who I will end up with.
    But all the "F" guys are never my type ever, ESI, SEE, IEE, EII (even though I realise there's this odd magnetic attraction every time I see an EII lol).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Fire View Post
    People usually don't fit their types to a T so your dual may not even be what you're hoping they will be. Sometimes those deviations can be positives though, too...so venturing outside of type matchmaking can be a positive thing.

    Your dual isn't necessarily what you even want in someone. If I matched certain stereotypes about my type's leading function my boyfriend would hate it, lol. Then there's also the fact that my Socionics type is supposed to be conservative and traditional, but I'm strongly opposite of that and that was one of the main things that initially attracted us to each other in the beginning (and still does). We both prefer outside of the box thinking and being progressive because we value autonomy and independent thinking.

    Duality just isn't necessary or important. What matters is simply finding a healthy relationship in which there is mutual love, trust, openness, and so on.
    THIS.
    I never think that a dual is what I want. It's quite the opposite I guess. I never want a feeling-person boyfriend, I don't want a too-chill-too-easygoing boyfriend, it's just not my type, all I want is someone dependable, logical, like my dad lol, I mean an SLI or LSI. These are my favourite types of boyfriend.

    But I do realise a dual is what someone needs for comfort.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    My mind’s going round in circles. Maybe, maybe I am simply comparing this current dual dude to the last guy I liked too much. Or he just wasn’t at his best the second time I saw him. Or maybe his look is just a bit different to what I go for. Yeah I should probably see him again. The first time I met him was years ago, in a club. He tried to dance with me, and I said no. (I didn’t want to hook up with anyone at the time, but I did sort of think..he seems ok though). So, there was some attraction. Then I got back in touch with him recently. Similarly to what you say @Adam Strange, there is possibly a good intellectual connection- we both like the same music so that’s quite a good thing and could be really fun to enjoy that together. Maybe there are more layers to peel..hmm
    Haha
    It's funny there's this ESI colleague, we've met like 3 times already (so he lives in another city) but the last 2 visits he missed me, my other colleagues said "Scarlet, ESI was looking for you" thingy, anyway last week we finally met again and just couldn't stop talking to each other. Lol. Like experiencing a dual relation, there's a sudden trust, and it's just really comfortable. He noticed one song on my playlist and he started telling me personal stories, I played another song and we tell each other another story. Haha. Yeah it's weird we're suddenly besties.


    I'm seeing 2 other guys, an SLI and LSI, and I can tell you the connections are all different.

    1. SLI (supervisor): I really like this guy, I kinda admire him, but he's too caring? I don't know. Asking so many detailed questions and he's like "you must be tired" sort of things. Don't you think I'm good and strong enough?
    2. LSI (mirage): So interested in him --> comfort. Every time I meet an LSI-Se, I'm always interested in him, so many interesting things I can get from his dom-Ti haha. And then we get along really well.
    3. ESI (dual): Comfort first --> now I'm interested. I have never been attracted to an ESI at the beginning, but we just get along really well. It's weird. We quickly trust each other, like we have met before, those sort of things. And then we get closer and find each other interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    I'm not new to this imago stuff.
    Like I said before, my type of guy is always an SLI or LSI, just like my LSE dad. And it will never change I guess. Let's see who I will end up with.
    But all the "F" guys are never my type ever, ESI, SEE, IEE, EII (even though I realise there's this odd magnetic attraction every time I see an EII lol).



    THIS.

    I never think that a dual is what I want. It's quite the opposite I guess. I never want a feeling-person boyfriend, I don't want a too-chill-too-easygoing boyfriend, it's just not my type, all I want is someone dependable, logical, like my dad lol,

    I mean an SLI or LSI. These are my favourite types of boyfriend.

    But I do realise a dual is what someone needs for comfort.
    @Scarlett, this is how I felt when I was in my late twenties. I wasn't sure about how to make it in the world and I needed help with achieving my main goals, because I felt that I wasn't strong enough to do it by myself. I needed me x2.

    I feel very differently now. Now, I know who I am and I'm strong enough to get what I need all by myself, and I'm now looking for someone who will cover my weaknesses. Someone who is really strong in those areas which I have pretty much ignored. In other words, I need a Dual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post


    Haha
    It's funny there's this ESI colleague, we've met like 3 times already (so he lives in another city) but the last 2 visits he missed me, my other colleagues said "Scarlet, ESI was looking for you" thingy, anyway last week we finally met again and just couldn't stop talking to each other. Lol. Like experiencing a dual relation, there's a sudden trust, and it's just really comfortable. He noticed one song on my playlist and he started telling me personal stories, I played another song and we tell each other another story. Haha. Yeah it's weird we're suddenly besties.


    I'm seeing 2 other guys, an SLI and LSI, and I can tell you the connections are all different.
    How strange that you are walking down the very same path that I walked. I have had two LSI GFs and was married to an SLI. I've had a lot of other collisions in the night, but those three are the ones who stood out. I actually think that I bedded two ESI Duals when I was dating a lot, but my immaturity or their selfishness caused me to keep looking.

    Anyway, let me share how these relationships turned out for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    1. SLI (supervisor): I really like this guy, I kinda admire him, but he's too caring? I don't know. Asking so many detailed questions and he's like "you must be tired" sort of things. Don't you think I'm good and strong enough?
    Yes, an SLI will take care of your health and that's useful, but no, you are not good or strong enough. Sorry. An SLI thinks that LIEs are useless for real work, and that LIEs make terrible decisions, so if you've been wanting to invest in that dream of yours, forget it. When you are around your Supervisor, you are on their territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    2. LSI (mirage): So interested in him --> comfort. Every time I meet an LSI-Se, I'm always interested in him, so many interesting things I can get from his dom-Ti haha. And then we get along really well.
    LSI. Great in bed, and that Role Fi really makes things feel all emotional and warm. Now try to work on a project together. Try to deal with their view of relationships that is fundamentally hierarchical with one person in charge. Try to deal with the fact that they want to put you into a prison cell. Strat compared the LIE-LSI relationship to that of Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham, and she was spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    3. ESI (dual): Comfort first --> now I'm interested. I have never been attracted to an ESI at the beginning, but we just get along really well. It's weird. We quickly trust each other, like we have met before, those sort of things. And then we get closer and find each other interesting.
    Yes, Duality is great, but you need to select for a Dual who is Healthy and Intelligent. There are some out there, but they are hard to find. Furthermore, I'd recommend trying to find a Dual who is interested in the same professional areas that interest you. Duality is a given, but common goals kick in the afterburners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post

    THIS.
    I never think that a dual is what I want. It's quite the opposite I guess. I never want a feeling-person boyfriend, I don't want a too-chill-too-easygoing boyfriend, it's just not my type, all I want is someone dependable, logical, like my dad lol, I mean an SLI or LSI. These are my favourite types of boyfriend.

    But I do realise a dual is what someone needs for comfort.

    .
    A big factor in attraction is pure familiarity which is why I think a lot of people go for people who are similar to their parents.
    as a more obvious example, the well-known trend that women with abusive dads have a higher tendency to get into abusive relationships in adulthood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Fire View Post
    Duality just isn't necessary or important. What matters is simply finding a healthy relationship in which there is mutual love, trust, openness, and so on.
    O and how are you supposed to find a person who you can be sure that you'll get along with and be satisfied enough with to be loving, trustful, and open to them? Fortune cookies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    O and how are you supposed to find a person who you can be sure that you'll get along with and be satisfied enough with to be loving, trustful, and open to them? Fortune cookies?

    How can you be sure that when you step onto a plane that you're also going to be walking off of it? The truth is, you can't. All you can do is reduce the risk by trying to make as many things as possible lean towards a good outcome, as you understand them at the moment.

    It also helps to be willing to work on a marriage, because they are all inherently imperfect to some degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    How can you be sure that when you step onto a plane that you're also going to be walking off of it? The truth is, you can't. All you can do is reduce the risk by trying to make as many things as possible lean towards a good outcome, as you understand them at the moment.

    It also helps to be willing to work on a marriage, because they are all inherently imperfect to some degree.
    Well the thing I want to say that socionics if you throw it out suddenly you have no where to look to tell what people you'll get along with. If it weren't for socionics, I'd have a very slim idea of how I'd interact with different people, hell I'd have probably ended up marrying a mirage before I ever thought of finding a dual. I just don't like dismissing duality as something which doesn't really matter, because it's a better idea to just go for a healthy relationship in general. But, at least in my experience, duality seems to fit my experience and can let me actually aim for someone who I can know I will be able to form a healthy bond with, as opposed to someone who I'll ultimately be unsatisfied with. I'm 99% sure this is just the Fi polr, but dismissing duality just because it isn't perfect on it's own is infuriating to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    O and how are you supposed to find a person who you can be sure that you'll get along with and be satisfied enough with to be loving, trustful, and open to them? Fortune cookies?
    Use poorly applied makeup to give yourself sexy abs, post pics of it, then always swipe right. Then, tell them every single detail about your life on the first date and don't try getting to know them or give them a chance to say anything themselves. When they do finally get a chance to, make sure you play devil's advocate against everything they share. You really have to make them show you they are being open and honest.

    I can't entirely tell whether you're joking. Usually I depend upon nonverbal cues to determine that, so talking online causes some misunderstandings sometimes. I'm pretty sure this was a joke? Sooo I'm replying with a joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baqer View Post
    Well the thing I want to say that socionics if you throw it out suddenly you have no where to look to tell what people you'll get along with. If it weren't for socionics, I'd have a very slim idea of how I'd interact with different people, hell I'd have probably ended up marrying a mirage before I ever thought of finding a dual. I just don't like dismissing duality as something which doesn't really matter, because it's a better idea to just go for a healthy relationship in general. But, at least in my experience, duality seems to fit my experience and can let me actually aim for someone who I can know I will be able to form a healthy bond with, as opposed to someone who I'll ultimately be unsatisfied with. I'm 99% sure this is just the Fi polr, but dismissing duality just because it isn't perfect on its own is infuriating to me.
    Ahh…so I guess it wasn't just a joke. In my opinion it isn't that hard. Live your life doing your thing, and as you meet people and form relationships with others, sometimes things gradually develop into something more. I mean…I don't know, that was terrible, sorry. This is so automatic to me that describing it is difficult, honestly…in my case it's like I just automatically discern things. My dual and I went through a horrible phase in which I didn't expect us to be compatible whatsoever, which almost ended our friendship completely. If not for us taking some time away from each other and working on our flaws, we never would've lasted. Self-improvement is always #1 priority, in my opinion. As long as that is there, the rest is able to be worked on. Then, there are other foundational components involved in relationships, such as communication, trust, and so forth. Those kinds of things are what truly determine health and compatibility in the grand scheme of things, although those do not make someone love the other. Instead, love is usually what inclines people to work on said things. I won't even befriend a person who is stagnant and isn't willing to improve themselves, take responsibility, admit when wrong, and they shift blame onto others, etc. Without self-improvement, it's impossible to form healthy relationships. Relationships take work, but if that's there, they won't work on anything. You're essentially signing up for beating a dead horse at that point.

    EDIT:
    "Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum."
    To err is human, but to persist (in the mistake) is diabolical.
    Last edited by Noir; 10-15-2021 at 07:10 AM.
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    Interesting discussion. I would also point out that many people are in healthy, loving non-dual relationships. Not everyone has the luxury of looking for a dual. Not everyone feels the need either.

    A lot of people probably end up with duals/ non duals because they feel somewhat comfortable with a person. Not because they have natural chemistry or admiration for them. Sometimes I wonder what’s better, someone with decent ITR (lets say our second or third choice of type) but who we have immediate attraction to or a dual who grows on you but isn’t your ‘type’? I mean type in the traditional, what’s your type, romantic type? lol. A dual who is ok haha.

    I think it’s so much about time and place whether someone who is ‘ok’ will be someone you decide to get to know and allow into your life.

    Edit:
    There is a dual on my Instagram who is cute and looks nice enough but there are few things that put me off messaging him. He’s friends with a whole bunch of people I sort of know which is off-putting to me. I think he fancies my sister too lol. Also, he’a not my ‘type’ in style/ I prefer a more quirky/ middle class style. However,I recall being on a night out and was trying to get over a crush and seeing him in a crowd thinking, hm I remember him from a party or something, he’s kinda cute…ended up forgetting about him though. If I end up messaging him I think it would only be in some crazy drunken depressed moment or something. I just don’t fancy him right now lol. And he is better looking than other duals I’ve considered so I don’t think it’s about looks.
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-15-2021 at 09:47 AM.

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    Thinking out loud: Also, things like lack of subtype/ strong subtype as well as one’s mental health levels at the time the relationship is gonna impact how strong the relationship feels.

    So for example I really liked an SEI who turned me down. We have crazy natural chemistry for whatever reason and although I’m a bit subtype-y I’m not sure he is. I think this makes our ‘friendship’ or whatever’s left of it feel similar to semi-duality rather than typical look-a-like. When we first met I was a lot more unhealthy and he was more confident so I don’t think the natural chemistry was so obvious. It’s almost like he is EP to my IP because he’s a bit more of an ambivert?

    Knowing him well it’s not like I’d choose him over a good semi-dual, but if another SEI as good as him came along I might go for it?
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-15-2021 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Furthermore, I'd recommend trying to find a Dual who is interested in the same professional areas that interest you.
    Do you think there is any ESI's that are airline pilots?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post
    Do you think there is any ESI's that are airline pilots?
    Yes, I do. I’ll bet there are quite a few of them. Pilots need to do immediate checks of the things in front of them in order to prevent problems in the future.
    Pure ESI.
    Just hang around airports and look for guys who look like a young Paul Newman or a young Bruce Springsteen.
    Forget about the guys who look like a young Bob Dylan. He never married.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Just hang around airports and look for guys who look like a young Paul Newman or a young Bruce Springsteen.
    Forget about the guys who look like a young Bob Dylan. He never married.
    Haha
    I'm actually in the industry (more like in the management though) so I'm around them all the time.
    But most of them are all SLI's, LSI's, and SLE's. SLI's make really good captains, by the way. See? I'm so into SLI's.
    All the SLE's keep chasing me, but they're just not my type. Anyway.
    And then we have the LSI's. I like them and we always get along really well. But only the LSI-Se, not the LSI-Ti.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Anyway, let me share how these relationships turned out for me.
    LSI. Great in bed, and that Role Fi really makes things feel all emotional and warm. Now try to work on a project together. Try to deal with their view of relationships that is fundamentally hierarchical with one person in charge. Try to deal with the fact that they want to put you into a prison cell. Strat compared the LIE-LSI relationship to that of Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham, and she was spot on.
    By the way, what's her subtype?
    Do you think because it doesn't match? You're LIE-Te and she's LSI-Ti?

    I'm a LIE-Ni and I'm not really good working on a big project together with an EII-Ne, feels like in a contrary even though we're semidual, I think because of the subtype.

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    Didn’t know Bruce Springsteen was ESI. I really dig political ESIs, they’re not the ones I typically notice though. There is a quiet but sassy ESI lady in my office and she makes lots of quips and comments about work politics, it’s so much more interesting than everyone else’s moaning and squabbling

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    @Scarlett

    So I mentioned 2 duals above that I thought I might be interested in.

    Turns out one of them just seemed too ‘laddy’ or bad boyish for me..sometimes I go for this type but it’s not my fave. My brother is a SEE bad boy..I have mixed feelings about cool/edgy/ cheeky guys but really I think I belong with someone softer.

    The other SLE didn’t seem attractive when I re-met him. Perhaps it can happen with a dual
    that you think of them as initially more attractive than they are.. :/

    Also I just find people faces generally a bit weird atm, coz you’re so used to seeing them
    covered up haha.

    That’s cool you’re dating some interesting people! I would be open to illusionary too..

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    A big factor in attraction is pure familiarity which is why I think a lot of people go for people who are similar to their parents.
    as a more obvious example, the well-known trend that women with abusive dads have a higher tendency to get into abusive relationships in adulthood.
    Our parents ITR may influence what we think of as a ‘healthy’ relationship too..my parents are supervision so perhaps a relationship with clearly defined roles appeals to me for example..

    Semi-duality for example always seemed weird to me. I did briefly consider dating a semi-dual in the past but only one.. as a hypothetical idea, semi-duality doesn’t instantly appeal. Could be to do with the fact my parents relationship appears a little cold (unlike semi-duals).

    i have thought about it enough to know it could work but that’s taken a lot of thinking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Does it even exist on its own then, or is the "joy" and "energizing" and all that shit simply a product of love of a person with whom you are on the same page with
    Yeah is passionate/healthy love simply it’s own kind of duality..regardless of types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Scarlett

    So I mentioned 2 duals above that I thought I might be interested in.

    Turns out one of them just seemed too ‘laddy’ or bad boyish for me..sometimes I go for this type but it’s not my fave. My brother is a SEE bad boy..I have mixed feelings about cool/edgy/ cheeky guys but really I think I belong with someone softer.

    The other SLE didn’t seem attractive when I re-met him. Perhaps it can happen with a dual
    that you think of them as initially more attractive than they are.. :/

    Also I just find people faces generally a bit weird atm, coz you’re so used to seeing them
    covered up haha.

    That’s cool you’re dating some interesting people! I would be open to illusionary too..
    I'm the opposite, the ESI's seem too soft for me, I think I belong with someone more logical.
    Yes Illusionary is one of the best ITR I think. It's Dual, Activity, Semidual, Illusionary, Mirror, Identity and Look A Like.
    We're supposed to get along really well with our illusionary partner, and that's the reason I end up dating LSI's all the time. Well not all the time, but mostly. Because he's more like my type, more rational and not too soft like an ESI.

    I wish I can meet a more-logical-and-not-too-soft ESI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Our parents ITR may influence what we think of as a ‘healthy’ relationship too..my parents are supervision so perhaps a relationship with clearly defined roles appeals to me for example..

    Semi-duality for example always seemed weird to me. I did briefly consider dating a semi-dual in the past but only one.. as a hypothetical idea, semi-duality doesn’t instantly appeal. Could be to do with the fact my parents relationship appears a little cold (unlike semi-duals).

    i have thought about it enough to know it could work but that’s taken a lot of thinking
    So for you supervision relations appear a little cold? And you would prefer relations like this? How about duals?
    My parents are look-a-like and they're so romantic to each other. I think because they're both extroverted? Haha. Because the other look-a-like couple, my LSI-ESI close friends, they don't appear romantic.


    Haha.
    Seems like I'm online again.

    Ok so I mentioned 1 dual above that I thought an ESI, turns out he's actually quite extroverted, I can see his tert-Te clearly. It's not inferior-Te.
    That's why the first time I met him, we got along instantly. He's my activation partner! Because I usually kinda "ignore" inferior-Te at the beginning, that's why I'm never interested in ESI's at first.

    Anyway I meet new different people at work every day. I kinda see the pattern which ones I get along well.
    Basically everyone, but I mean, the vibe. It's always different.
    Last edited by Scarlett; 10-22-2021 at 10:03 AM.

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