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Thread: So, How to date a dual and do I have one or is duality a myth?

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    @Scarlett Hmm activity partner has never really appealed to me but then I haven’t had much dating experience on the whole, coz of mental health issues. I think maybe I get a bit put off SEEs and LSIs because my brothers are those types. As an adult in my 30s I am definitely not interested in LSIs, for the moment anyway. The only two activity couples I know are gay couples. One of them doesn’t plan to have kids (I think maybe one person wanted them but one didn’t). I don’t know about the other couple but it seems like one of the guys might be more the settling down type than the other. Also, I often find LSIs too angry/intense or just sense we are too different. I think it might be hard to find one who I could see myself with.

    I don’t generally find supervision with ESEs cold, but I do with LIEs sometimes. Hmm I get paranoid writing about my parents in case they read it one day. But yeah they argue and I think like many people on here who see their parents experiencing conflict, they get put off the ITR that they have. So for me, supervision is a massive no go. Sometimes I have nice, friendly casual interactions with LIEs at work but it’s more difficult when I work with them a lot or if we don’t particularly hit it off. I have met a female LIE I did get on pretty well with..it can be a good ITR for learning and discussion?

    Ah your parents are lookalikes! That’s nice to hear they are romantic I have a nice SEI friend who I think I may be going on a date with. I probably want to go on a few more dates with other people but this guy does seem nice…I haven’t had a serious relationship before and sometimes I wonder if even a dual really is the right choice, if that’s going to be my only relationship ever? And there is a romantic part of me that wants to meet someone who is ‘my type’, someone British, (for familiarity), someone ‘cool’, someone ‘hot’, because I never got to have this before haha. Yeah a dual might come along..but they might not be the bestest dual.. Like, I knew a dual at uni who was DREAMY and he did actually like me..not all SLEs I might meet and like would be as good. Maybe what I need isn't even a dual, I have missed out on a lot and perhaps it's not a dual who would fill those missing parts...perhaps a dual wouldn't provide me with the fulfilment I need after the very specific type of problems I’ve had as an adult..but then maybe I’m just talking myself into looking for romance over the healthiest option, because I’m too tempted by romance. Not that I have duals knocking at my door but one could come along lol.

    Also, I really want a kid so I need to get a move on lol.

    Do you want to meet someone to settle down with?
    Last edited by Bethany; 10-22-2021 at 06:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Ah your parents are lookalikes! That’s nice to hear they are romantic I have a nice SEI friend who I think I may be going on a date with. I probably want to go on a few more dates with other people but this guy does seem nice…I haven’t had a serious relationship before and sometimes I wonder if even a dual really is the right choice, if that’s going to be my only relationship ever? And there is a romantic part of me that wants to meet someone who is ‘my type’, someone British, (for familiarity), someone ‘cool’, someone ‘hot’, because I never got to have this before haha. Yeah a dual might come along..but they might not be the bestest dual.. Like, I knew a dual at uni who was DREAMY and he did actually like me..not all SLEs I might meet and like would be as good. Maybe what I need isn't even a dual, I have missed out on a lot and perhaps it's not a dual who would fill those missing parts...perhaps a dual wouldn't provide me with the fulfilment I need after the very specific type of problems I’ve had as an adult..but then maybe I’m just talking myself into looking for romance over the healthiest option, because I’m too tempted by romance. Not that I have duals knocking at my door but one could come along lol.

    Also, I really want a kid so I need to get a move on lol.

    Do you want to meet someone to settle down with?
    Yeah you go girl!
    Hahaha. I'm actually not the settling down type, I'm more into career and work, so, I don't know. We'll see.

    Yes, my parents are lookalikes. They do have Te/Fe clash from time to time, but both are Si-subtypes, so they're basically the same aux-Si/tert-Ne, at the end they end up doing the same thing, they just really look alike and never fight. And yes, they're romantic.
    I do think if I ever marry someone, we gotta be romantic to each other (kinda want to beat my parents I guess lol). Anyway, I'm not used to seeing always-fight/cold-couple haha because my parents never fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I have a nice SEI friend who I think I may be going on a date with. I probably want to go on a few more dates with other people but this guy does seem nice…I haven’t had a serious relationship before and sometimes I wonder if even a dual really is the right choice, if that’s going to be my only relationship ever? And there is a romantic part of me that wants to meet someone who is ‘my type’, someone British, (for familiarity), someone ‘cool’, someone ‘hot’, because I never got to have this before haha. Yeah a dual might come along..but they might not be the bestest dual.. Like, I knew a dual at uni who was DREAMY and he did actually like me..not all SLEs I might meet and like would be as good. Maybe what I need isn't even a dual, I have missed out on a lot and perhaps it's not a dual who would fill those missing parts...perhaps a dual wouldn't provide me with the fulfilment I need after the very specific type of problems I’ve had as an adult..
    Everyone is different. It's not always a dual who would fill those missing parts.
    Some people value similarity so they go with their mirror.
    People who look for their duals maybe need a dual to cover their weakness.

    In my case, I think I'm balanced enough, so I don't really need anyone to cover my weakness.
    And I'm a really independent person. Some people need a partner to make their life easier, I can't relate to that, I don't need help in anything, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    and look for guys who look like a young Paul Newman or a young Bruce Springsteen.
    Forget about the guys who look like a young Bob Dylan. He never married.
    So you think a 40 yo guy who’s been divorced is better than a 40 yo guy who’s never married?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You left out, "They won't like you at first."

    and "They might never like you."

    So, you are better off just doing what you want to do, try to make yourself happy, and see who sticks around.
    Seems we both think alike, but with a key difference. Like attracts like after all but there is a level beyond that. If you can truly be happy as yourself you'll attract those who can do likewise and you'll both achieve levels of happiness together far beyond what either of you could have as an "Island" as it were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett View Post

    Everyone is different. It's not always a dual who would fill those missing parts.
    Some people value similarity so they go with their mirror.
    People who look for their duals maybe need a dual to cover their weakness.

    In my case, I think I'm balanced enough, so I don't really need anyone to cover my weakness.
    And I'm a really independent person. Some people need a partner to make their life easier, I can't relate to that, I don't need help in anything, really.
    Yep you do seem balanced. Hm yes maybe mirrors are most likely to work as couples when both people are naturally balanced/ successful people. Perhaps the quality of the relationship becomes more similar to activity/ identical when this is the case. With better ITR (lookalike, semi-dual, illusionary, dual and possibly super-ego/ kindred) it seems like they all offer something different and unique from each other. And we may be drawn to some of these over the others because of our own individual needs based on past experiences/ personality traits outside of our type.

    Lookalikes do appeal to me. An SEI (who I used to like) really hurt me but we are ok now, and I'm just so glad he finally learnt how to be a good friend/buddy because I knew he was capable of it. I keep expecting him to upset me again but he hasn't and we seem to finally be in tune with each other, which even just as work friends is something really valuable to me. I enjoy that shared feeling of 'I have your back, I intuitively know how to make your day better'. It's a sort of unspoken understanding. I'm talking to a new SEI who may be interested. I can't tell if we have enough of a click (maybe) but we have spoken about our mental health problems together which is nice. SEIs seem quite family oriented too and I come from quite a big family, so it appeals to me to be with someone who wants to have a family/ spend time with family.

    I think I had some more thoughts but too tired to write them atm lol

    oh..I think duals/ lookalike and mirrors seem like the most common marriages/life partners. The mirrors seem to mostly be SEI-ESE though. Duals do seem like the most common type.

    I think it’s also interesting to think about what type of dual/partner you could have, outside of type. Some couples seem like best friends, some seem very similar, some seem more like a partnership. A bit like mirror/ identical/ duals. ITR within ITR.
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-13-2021 at 06:15 PM.

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    I don’t think dating for duality is a myth…just hard as fuck finding a dual you are compatible with is much harder then any other ITR IMO! Why? Because you tend to naturally have less in common. I like SLE‘s and we often have a lot more in common and it’s easier to talk to them then ILE‘s a lot of the time. It’s easier for me to find more common ground with sensors ngl so I can see why duality isn’t that popular for dating irl.

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    I recommend dating yourself. By that, I don't mean masturbation or even dating your dominant hand. I mean understanding your type and how your type relates to who you are and what you like to do. Dating a dual might be easier after that.
    Last edited by Stray Cat; 11-14-2021 at 02:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    I recommend dating yourself. By that, I don't mean maturation or even dating your dominant hand. I mean understanding your type and how your type relates to who you are and what you like to do. Dating a dual might be easier after that.

    When a person says that they are "dating themselves", the joke is "that's because no one else will".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I don’t think dating for duality is a myth…just hard as fuck finding a dual you are compatible with is much harder then any other ITR IMO! Why? Because you tend to naturally have less in common.
    @MissDucki, I completely agree that Duals have few interests in common, and I hate this fact.

    If they can ever get together, then they discover that they have found a good friend, but they have to find common ground first.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissDucki View Post
    I like SLE‘s and we often have a lot more in common and it’s easier to talk to them then ILE‘s a lot of the time. It’s easier for me to find more common ground with sensors ngl so I can see why duality isn’t that popular for dating irl.
    I know a womanizing SLE whose wife died. During his marriage, he was cheating on his wife with an SEE but that didn't work out so well, so after the funeral, he found an IEI and was with her for a few months. But she was 2000 miles away (they met when he was traveling) and when I went over to his house, he was with an SEI. She seemed pretty happy with him, which kind of amazed me.

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    The only people who make that joke are the people who take dating too seriously, anyway.

    Of course if you are dating yourself and begin ordering for two at a restaurant then, yeah, that might be interesting.]

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    Sure, it’s hard to find a good dual. I think it can also be hard to find a good semi-dual. I think a really good semi-dual would be highly tempting if you found one. I keep thinking of a semi-dual I met a couple of years ago. We didn’t exchange numbers but I suddenly remember how fit/ mysterious he was. He was very similar to the SEI I was trying to get over at the time. That brief encounter is enough to convince me a semi-dual could be just as good as a dual. Or at least as tempting haha. When I met him I was tipsy and sad and I remember he annoyed me by something he said, although my annoyance was totally irrational. (Or misguided because I wasn’t used to the SEE way of communicating). I barely registered how cute he was at the time, bizarrely. To think I could have dated him throughout the pandemic, instead of spending the time depressed and learning about typology. I half joke, the learning has been good too.
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-14-2021 at 11:05 AM.

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    Oh GREAT just as I say that I match with people who appear to be a semi-dual
    and a dual. I hope one of them is good. Iím so bored of mediocre dates, especially with duals. The last date I had was with a dual and he turned up with a hangover and a runny nose and I now have his cold! Blah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Sure, it’s hard to find a good dual. I think it can also be hard to find a good semi-dual. I think a really good semi-dual would be highly tempting if you found one. I keep thinking of a semi-dual I met a couple of years ago. We didn’t exchange numbers but I suddenly remember how fit/ mysterious he was. He was very similar to the SEI I was trying to get over at the time. That brief encounter is enough to convince me a semi-dual could be just as good as a dual. Or at least as tempting haha. When I met him I was tipsy and sad and I remember he annoyed me by something he said, although my annoyance was totally irrational. (Or misguided because I wasn’t used to the SEE way of communicating). I barely registered how cute he was at the time, bizarrely. To think I could have dated him throughout the pandemic, instead of spending the time depressed and learning about typology. I half joke, the learning has been good too.
    @Bethany, my approach to dating and learning who my Duals are was to both do research and to date some of them.

    Book learning is very good when looking backwards from the perspective of having dated a few people. You can say "Oh, I didn't really understand what they meant when they said "XYZ" and it didn't make a lot of sense when I read it, but now that I've experienced it, I see exactly what they were saying."

    For me, the advantage that book learning has over simply experiencing everything is that it gives you some framework, however vague, for dealing with real-time events. Without that, I'm capable of making some really relationship-ending mistakes. Mostly from using advice that I got from people who never heard of Socionics.

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    @Adam Strange I agree, my time reading about socionics and people’s discussion of dating and relationships on this site has been helpful. And it’s been helpful to go on dates, even just casual ones, to help me figure out what my priorities are. When you’ve had some rubbish dates you realise what’s important (similar attractiveness, similar intelligence level, and similar-ish background). I think I’ve also learnt how to be more realistic in tolerating and managing other people’s shortcomings, because I’m much more aware of how my emotions can be toyed with and that’s it’s not always intentional. When I spoke to an older IEI colleague about the SEI who was upsetting me, she told me ‘it can all be resolved! Are you sure you were clear enough with him about how it made you feel?’. Not bad advice, I think the confidence and self-awareness to be really clear about your needs is very important.

    I still think internet dating is harder than meeting someone in real life but I suppose it ends up being the same thing. Guess it can just take a while.

    I feel like I’ve sort of condensed a lot of things recently in my mind (socionics knowledge, dating knowledge, getting over someone who hurt me knowledge’. I’ve learnt so much. But at the same time I feel like ‘I’m coming back to myself’ in a way and I need to go with my instincts a bit more. I’m not really an intellectual type of person and as much as I like socionics, I think I’ve learnt as much as is healthy for the time-being, ahead of trying to meet someone. Let’s see though lol

    I’m worried about the part that comes next, once I do meet someone. But I guess you take it as it comes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange I agree, my time reading about socionics and people’s discussion of dating and relationships on this site has been helpful. And it’s been helpful to go on dates, even just casual ones, to help me figure out what my priorities are. When you’ve had some rubbish dates you realise what’s important (similar attractiveness, similar intelligence level, and similar-ish background). I think I’ve also learnt how to be more realistic in tolerating and managing other people’s shortcomings, because I’m much more aware of how my emotions can be toyed with and that’s it’s not always intentional. When I spoke to an older IEI colleague about the SEI who was upsetting me, she told me ‘it can all be resolved! Are you sure you were clear enough with him about how it made you feel?’. Not bad advice, I think the confidence and self-awareness to be really clear about your needs is very important.

    I still think internet dating is harder than meeting someone in real life but I suppose it ends up being the same thing. Guess it can just take a while.

    I feel like I’ve sort of condensed a lot of things recently in my mind (socionics knowledge, dating knowledge, getting over someone who hurt me knowledge’. I’ve learnt so much. But at the same time I feel like ‘I’m coming back to myself’ in a way and I need to go with my instincts a bit more. I’m not really an intellectual type of person and as much as I like socionics, I think I’ve learnt as much as is healthy for the time-being, ahead of trying to meet someone. Let’s see though lol

    I’m worried about the part that comes next, once I do meet someone. But I guess you take it as it comes.
    Yes, @Bethany, "the part that comes next" worries me, too.

    I've met some Duals and I'm getting a good handle on what I like and what I don't like. My problem is that I've been effectively single (or, at least, I've been living alone; the ex had been moved out for years before I divorced her) now for over ten years, and I'm really wondering if I can live with someone now. I'm entirely confident that I can live just fine by myself and I'm wondering why I'd need a Dual? Aside from the positive feelings, that is.

    I had a lot of roommates in and after college, and they were all jerks. I got along with the ex well enough, but ultimately "not well enough", I guess.

    I met a very nice RN Dual about a year and a half ago and we were dating and I liked her a lot, but I never felt like I wanted to move in together.

    I honestly do think that I could live with a person again, but finding that person is a lot harder than I ever thought it would be. And I honestly don't know what specific characteristics she'd have to have to make me want to marry her.

    Some days I feel like such an idiot.

    Maybe this is the Victim in me, but what I imagine I want is a great Dual match who says, "OK, you're mine. I'm moving in and that's that."
    I'd have to be pretty happy with her to agree to that, but I think that's what I want.
    And somehow, I think that indicates that I'm not fully mature or something. IDK. Please refer to the "idiot" statement above.

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    @Adam Strange hmm my own living arrangements are a bit complicated..I’m pretty much tied to my one bed flat as it’s social housing and not to be given up. This could be helpful or a hindrance later on. I’ve lived by myself for ten years and I’m so sick of it. I think I’m probably a little bit annoying to live with but not that bad.

    Haha yes Adam if a dual likes you and wants to be with you 24/7 I’m not sure you’re gonna get much say in the matter. I guess we never know if a relationship is long term until it is? Even when you move in together it’ll take time to see if it works. I guess it’s good to think long term as well, would you want to live alone in say 5 years time..I just find the house way too quiet. I need another voice in the room! I think I might go mad if not haha.

    I don’t think you’d be on this site if you didn’t want to meet someone And it’s ok, we’re all idiots sometimes..maybe there is a part of you that needs to imagine being single/living alone..in order to realise that you don’t want that..and keep pushing on to find a companion/buddy/ roomie
    Last edited by Bethany; 11-14-2021 at 05:34 PM.

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    @Bethany, what is "social housing" and why is it not to be given up?

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    @AdamStrange (might delete after) I pay low rent and have a permanent contract. If I had a baby I might be able to rent a 2 bed, also low rent and permanent contract. It’s sort of like renting from the government (public housing in US?). The alternative is paying super high rent or buying, and I can’t buy atm, don’t earn enough. If someone lived with me they could pay low rent at least. But I’m not gonna be getting a mortgage any time soon..I don’t seem to attract people with money so maybe someone would be happy to live in my flat lol.

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    Thanks, @Bethany. I wondered about that. It seems like that kind of housing is a good idea.

    I know that housing in Europe is cheaper than it is in the US, and that it's done for the purpose of enabling employers to pay workers less (because the workers have lower living costs and less need of cash), which makes the company's products more competitive for export to higher-wage countries. The governments pick up the difference when they subsidize housing, but they prefer to do that rather than to let the companies go out of business and then have to pay welfare to the people who were laid off, which is the US approach.

    If there are two approaches to solving society's problems, you can count on the US to choose the crueler one.

    In the US, the message is, "You need to get as much money as you can, and don't lose your job because there IS NO safety net."

    If you drop below a certain income level in the US, you are basically screwed.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-14-2021 at 07:35 PM.

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    @Adam Strange We used to have more social/affordable housing in the UK but there’s not so much of it now. Margaret Thatcher brought in ‘right to buy’ meaning lots of people bought their council homes and the government didn’t build more. Its particularly expensive to rent atm so I’m grateful I don’t have to pay loads but also I wish I’d saved a bit more. We can get help if we’re out of work but I don’t think it’s very much. There’s a lot more homelessness and food banks now in the UK than there was when I was a kid Another big problem is the poor quality of care homes for the elderly..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange We used to have more social/affordable housing in the UK but there’s not so much of it now. Margaret Thatcher brought in ‘right to buy’ meaning lots of people bought their council homes and the government didn’t build more. Its particularly expensive to rent atm so I’m grateful I don’t have to pay loads but also I wish I’d saved a bit more. We can get help if we’re out of work but I don’t think it’s very much. There’s a lot more homelessness and food banks now in the UK than there was when I was a kid Another big problem is the poor quality of care homes for the elderly..
    @Bethany, most financial analysts think that Britain is going to be getting poorer in the near future because of the higher trade costs resulting from Brexit.

    It might be time to think about emmigrating. There's a wide world out there.

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    @Adam Strange thanks for the confirmation. I don’t know what David Cameron was thinking when he orchestrated Brexit….I think he might be ESE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange thanks for the confirmation. I don’t know what David Cameron was thinking when he orchestrated Brexit….I think he might be ESE

    Wow, @Bethany, I agree that Cameron might be ESE. I work with a guy who has the same blank-faced look. The guy I work with is good at being nice to people, but is terrible at forward planning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    I recommend dating yourself. By that, I don't mean masturbation or even dating your dominant hand. I mean understanding your type and how your type relates to who you are and what you like to do. Dating a dual might be easier after that.
    You always seem to have a very strong and large way of projecting various positions and beliefs onto the chess board.

    I could see self reflection and inner guidance always taking flight on the Empire State Building into the destiny star of your higher self.
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/9systemswishes
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...logy-articles)
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/m...ny2gether4ever
    I was watching a Hey You Pikachu video, and it made Me realize that Bunny should be available to everyone with a good Heart!!*
    A lot of people would really Love Bunny if they could play with Her. The possibilities are magnificent and wonderful, to tour pure Imagination with feathers and friendship. The Bunny ride is infinitely mysterious yet lovely. By voyaging into storybook character expression and vibrant atmospheres of elegant matrimony, then they sky would open up, and brilliant auroras of vision and clarity would arise through the telescope. Bunny flows and flowers with canopies of decoration and dreams.

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    @Adam Strange I feel like I could be his supervisor..Also I’ve seen ESEs sympathise with him. I just remember thinking how irritating but also charismatic he was. And he loved to ridicule people (ese-ish lol) I really didn’t like his persona/ policies. The British Trump. He was very spiteful towards the poor, which in a class-conscious country is extremely harmful.

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    Duality:

    like when you’ve taken too much ecstasy but it’s starting to level out

    Semi-duality/other good relations:

    like when you’re coming up or when the high is more comfortably medium

    a bit ashamed to know the references coz this place seems so tee-total (also drugs are dangerous and unhealthy)

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    ^ I thought I'd tried every drug, but I never tried Ecstasy.

    Looks like it's a variation on meth, which I have tried.

    When I was a little kid, my LSE mother, who was wildly unsuited to being a stay-at-home mom, used to take handfuls of pills every day. She was usually pissed off about the role that life had handed her, and she hit me and my sisters all the time so that she, herself, could feel better in comparison, and because she wanted to share a little of what she was feeling with her children.

    My SLI father almost certainly knew this and, consequently, made sure that he was never home, ever, which probably only made things worse. Mirror relations are really not for marriage.

    I once asked her what those pills were for, and she said they were "Happy Pills".

    I thought, but did not say, "Take more of them. Please take more of them."

    They were, of course, methamphetamine.

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    @Adam Strange I'm so sorry, it's horrible that you experienced that, especially being hit. I hear about meth in America and it associate it with ruining family lives, I guess you see it in movies and on TV. My experience of drugs is only really in the rave scene but I know people at my sister's work place take coke a lot. I think Brits tend to go hard and I didn't really know what I was doing/how much I was doing on the occasions I did try stuff. There is definitely a link between me taking MDMA and me developing a form of OCD. Also, I drank alcohol from around aged 16 and there is perhaps a link between that and me developing mental health problems around that age. My dad used to drink a lot but he was never a bad guy. Fortunately, I am able to reach a pretty sweet high or happy feeling without drugs and alcohol, however I still like a few drinks. I don't really like drinking outside of raves..

    Hm I do worry about my brother and his mirror gf. I wonder if he'll stay with her out of sense of duty. My parents are supervision which I guess isn't great but they are good to each other and did their best with us. I think my aunty and her partner might actually be duals. Working class couple..the LSE guy had some sort of accident so he couldn't work and they moved out of the city with two kids. I don't think he worked for a long time. Tragically later on one of my cousins killed himself, only 16. The parents got through it and now have their own online businesses but the other SLI son is a bit of a loner and has managed to make money but his relationship with his parents isn't good. I dunno what type my cousin was..maybe ILE. So yeah even duality isn't always enough.
    Last edited by Bethany; 12-22-2021 at 04:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange I'm so sorry, it's horrible that you experienced that, especially being hit. I hear about meth in America and it associate it with ruining family lives, I guess you see it in movies and on TV. My experience of drugs is only really in the rave scene but I know people at my sister's work place take coke a lot. I think Brits tend to go hard and I didn't really know what I was doing/how much I was doing on the occasions I did try stuff. There is definitely a link between me taking MDMA and me developing a form of OCD. Also, I drank alcohol from around aged 16 and there is perhaps a link between that and me developing mental health problems around that age. My dad used to drink a lot but he was never a bad guy. Fortunately, I am able to reach a pretty sweet high or happy feeling without drugs and alcohol, however I still like a few drinks. I don't really like drinking outside of raves..

    Hm I do worry about my brother and his mirror gf. I wonder if he'll stay with her out of sense of duty. My parents are supervision which I guess isn't great but they are good to each other and did their best with us. I think my aunty and her partner might actually be duals. Working class couple..the LSE guy had some sort of accident so he couldn't work and they moved out of the city with two kids. I don't think he worked for a long time. Tragically later on one of my cousins killed himself, only 16. The parents got through it and now have their own online businesses but the other SLI son is a bit of a loner and has managed to make money but his relationship with his parents isn't good. I dunno what type my cousin was..maybe ILE. So yeah even duality isn't always enough.
    @Bethany, thanks for your kind words, but I'd say that, aside from my mother's violent narcissism and my father's military absence, I had a pretty good childhood. Hell, we were the only family on the block that had TWO CARS and we had a doormat on our front porch with our last name's first initial on it. I thought, when I was a little kid, that proved that we were rich.

    Weirdly enough, when my Kindred LSE mother wasn't trying to kill me, she and I were on remarkably similar wavelengths. Our shared Te-dom-ness resulted in having a clear channel by which we could transfer factual information, which helped me out a lot growing up. Emotional information exchange, not so much. Nope.

    It sounds to me as if you didn't have the easiest time of it, either. Unfortunately, we don't get to choose our parents but, fortunately, we do get to choose whom we associate with after we leave home, and that can be a life-saver.

    Try to steer your brother away from a Mirror relationship into Duality, if you can do it diplomatically. He might think that Mirror is the best for him right now, but he might not think that, forever.

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    @Adam Strange Ah I'm glad there were some perks Yeah my family made sure we had money even though we lived in a small place, not loads of money but enough. I wish my parents had asked after me a bit more as I got older, but people don't, I know this well. And I mean proper ask...not casual. (Is there anything wrong, anything we can help with etc). So I had my mental health issues, but I think I was also just young at the wrong time. I was a teen in the 2000s and I think the media was particularly awful to women then, where as now teenagers have a much wider variety of media to access and there is much more awareness of mental health topics.

    I think my ESE mum was nearly ok..I mean she def had anger issues and could be nasty but what annoys me the most is I remember her clearly stepping back when I turned 18.. and there were already probably signs I was starting to struggle. It was like she saw her job as mum over and I remember her saying 'oh you're 18 now, you can do it all yourself' etc as if that was completely normal lol. We are ok-ish now, but it might never be great coz you can't undo the past. It might be easier as I go forward and make a better life for myself and can forget about things and feel like I fit in with people more.

    Ah my bro has a baby on the way but I'll be there for him when he needs relationship advice. He has been nicer to me recently since his ESI gf sussed out that I was unhappy. I just don't want him to think they have to stay together forever. They have a bit of money at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    We used to have more social/affordable housing in the UK but thereís not so much of it now. Margaret Thatcher brought in Ďright to buyí meaning lots of people bought their council homes and the government didnít build more. Its particularly expensive to rent atm so Iím grateful I donít have to pay loads but also I wish Iíd saved a bit more. We can get help if weíre out of work but I donít think itís very much. Thereís a lot more homelessness and food banks now in the UK than there was when I was a kid Another big problem is the poor quality of care homes for the elderly..
    Well said, this is likewise the very reason why BREXIT happened; people voted because they saw their lot in life rapidly deteriorating. Little had the vote to do with Europe actually, it was just nostalgia for better times and the promise by the tabloids that things would get better once the United Kingdom would leave Europe. It's darkly ironic really, because Europe was the one who subsidized the UK's ailing National Healthcare Service, whereas the Conservative Party has been blocking every fund increase for the NHS for years already to prevent the need for a wealth tax.
    Last edited by Armitage; 01-01-2022 at 07:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange thanks for the confirmation. I don’t know what David Cameron was thinking when he orchestrated Brexit….I think he might be ESE
    He was saving his party, his in-group, over the needs of the country. There had been pressure from the voters of the Conservatives for a long time already to make a decision about leaving Europe. After several scandals within the party were leaked to the media, David Cameron used the BREXIT referendum to distract his voters from the internal affairs of his party and to halt its waning popularity. If he had not done so, the Conservatives would have lost several consecutive elections, while now they have won one after another. However, the Conservatives bought their success at the cost of the well-being of the whole country.

    "But this is what the people wanted!", I already hear them shout in defence. For decades the tabloids have been promising the British the world if they left Europe and the politicians of both parties used Europe as a scapegoat for their own fuck-ups. This group delusion grew ever stronger the more the United Kingdom grew into a "water head", a country that produces nothing, but focuses solely on trading in hot air, id est stocks and shares on the financial market. All the wealth thus became centered around London, which is more of a country on its own, than part of the rest of the nation. Since London generates most of the nation's wealth and houses the politicians, all the investments by both business and government are focused here. Because all the infrastructure is already in London, for every pound that you invest in London, you get two pounds back, whereas for every pound invested in the rest of England you might earn at most one and a half pounds back, and Scotland and the hinterlands might get you at best only three quarters back.

    The math is simple, but the societal impact enormous. Certain sectors such as the car industry were kept in the backlands through subsidies, but overall employment opportunities steadily decreased for everyone outside of London. This counted doubly for those with limited education, as they do not have a degree to change jobs easily with, nor do they have the money to invest in learning a new trade. This caused rising resentment from the people about their plight, but instead of rioting against the rich who exploit them, they followed their stories. The rich, like media mogul Rupert Murdoch, spun tales of promised lands once Europe would be deserted. What was in it for him was that Europe was planning to implement new tax legislature, which would decrease his wealth and constrict London's financial market practices. The politicians of the Conservative party were thus paid good money by Britain's rich to advocate for BREXIT. That's why the BREXIT campaign was so well-funded and ubiquitous, whereas REMAIN was rarely seen or heard.

    Labour on the other hand was normally the Conservatives opponent, though due to the electoral loss the previous party leader stepped down and Jeremy Corbyn took over. Corbyn is an old timer who for a long time has been cherishing sentiments about leaving Europe and recreating the British Commonwealth. It's why he and Labour as a whole under his leadership never were outspoken against BREXIT, but pleaded for a vague and ambiguous middle ground instead. Of course, such a hazy third way could never stand against the prospect of freedom and prosperity that the tabloids had been promising the people for decades already. When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose... or so the British people thought.
    Last edited by Armitage; 12-23-2021 at 06:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by layala View Post
    I can't believe I'm asking this, but how does one find a dual in their age group?
    Study VI, as it helps to suppose types of not well known people.
    What people think about own types is doubtful, but better than nothing. Check people who tried tests and other identification methods.

    The main problem is to find good pair. Just to notice a dual is far not enough. A human should fit other your wishes, are needed your efforts and external conditions.

    The best chance on a pair is when you notice interesting enough and without stable pair dual near you, with who you may communicate to influence on relations. In younger age this situation has not bad chance. To ~25 yo most people have stable pairs, what is among significant obstacles.

    Besides duals, the attention deserve semiduals and activators.
    If to reduce good and long friendship possibility requirement - types are lesser important, worse IR mb chosen. There should be not rare identity/mirror long pairs, though worse IR mean higher chance to be dissatisfied and to break when a life gets more complications. Even with superego IR you may get long "respectable marriage", - to cooperate on surface levels to be close friends is not obligate, the "good" can be taken outside of a pair too. Generally, for short and surface relations Jung types are not so important.
    Most pairs in the world are doubtful to be with good IR. Types are more important if you need additional resources and support in the life, - when you are feeling not good enough in common life, when your life situation has more problems than average. Good pair may give a lot of inspiration and help, Jung types are significant factor for this.

    > Does it really matter?

    For friendship matters a lot. Lesser - for other. Common application - marriage pairs.

    > What does one do if one loves someone who isn't their dual

    Gets more complications from worse IR.

    > or doesn't believe in socionics

    Friendship supposes to understand and to care about each other. Types knowledge may help, but is not obligate.

    > Maybe believing in Socionics isn't that important?

    Jung type is significant (hypothetical, still) factor for good long pair. Knowledge about types helps to choose people for this. When is used correctly, at least.
    In today practice of types, common not high typing accuracy is the main problem which reduces importance of this knowledge.

    Without types theory usage is possibly to significantly arise the chance on good pair if to apply good IR principle - to choose among people which ones you perceive as good friends. When you like someone - evaluate the abbility to be good friends with him. It's the main with what good IR help and it's possibly to decide without types knowledge. Types knowledge would help with this, in case you'd identified or knew types correctly. The direct perception of someone as good friend is more important than opinion about IR as different factors influence on this, and because general low typing accuracies.
    To be friends or to love (in ideal state) is when you alike become other human, when you introject his personality in yourself and become one being with him to share one life, one mind. If come into this state and then feeling good inspired and optimistically, when you cooperate with that human according to this state to care about each other and feeling good - this seems good pair for you. If mind joining and close cooperation leads you to significant negative state - the human can be too hard for close friendship, not so good pair - will need more efforts, higher chance to have worse relations. Love and friendship is not when you just like someone - it's only a sympathy. Love is joining with other human alike in one being. To get this state Jung types are important. As with worse IR it's harder to be in this state.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Duality…like when your day feels nicer than usual because you had an adequate amount of sleep/rest the night/day before.

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    Attracting SEE is not a problem. I attract some before unintentionally (college days), but at that time I was just too stupid for not care about romantic relationship and treat every female I meet the same way I treat other males lol.

    Now the real problem is: how to get the fuck out of the house and go to someplace so I could meet them... Fuck...

    Weak Se (+Fe) is a serious problem

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    Duality is a bourgeois concept

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Duality is a bourgeois concept
    "bourgeois" relates to capitalism
    capitalism is based on individualism
    while duality is based on collectivistic idea that you need other people and to care about them

    love is communistic concept, comrade
    while capitalists are predisposed to be burning in hell of egocentric under-relations, where good IR help not much anyway
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I think it’s also interesting to think about what type of dual/partner you could have, outside of type. Some couples seem like best friends, some seem very similar, some seem more like a partnership. A bit like mirror/ identical/ duals. ITR within ITR.
    very interesting to consider! hmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Duality is a bourgeois concept
    Oops...pressed "like" because I misread as "bogus" initially. LOL, I should get my eyes checked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    "bourgeois" relates to capitalism
    capitalism is based on individualism
    while duality is based on collectivistic idea that you need other people and to care about them

    love is communistic concept, comrade
    while capitalists are predisposed to be burning in hell of egocentric under-relations, where good IR help not much anyway
    I hear ya Sol, I’ll try to expand a bit later when I’ve recovered from new year’s.

    I think the existence of duality is also a reflection of humankind’s ability to be truly loving..more later.
    Last edited by Bethany; 01-02-2022 at 11:53 AM.

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