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Thread: Differences Enneagram type 6 versus 8

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    Default Differences Enneagram type 6 versus 8

    To me, those are the two most interesting types to contrast. I see them getting confused often so I went about delineating and exploring what distinguishes them. Disclaimer: I find it distracting to narrow it down to 8 versus cp6, or both SX variants. That can happen later, but it's important to see through the essence of the types first. And again remember, it's about motivation when talking enneagram, the instincts just show in which realm this motivation unfolds. Like 6 SO wants to be secure within a community or cause while 6 SX wants to be secure with something that connects to them like a significant other. With that in mind, here's the guide for you. Please comment what you think and want to add/suggest/correct, with IRL stories if you like.




    SHADOW

    One of the most prominent features of an Eight is that they become controlling and vengeful when unhealthy. They stop focussing on building their own strength and begin to take strength from others. They see external attempts to blanket them everywhere. They will boss up, asserting their will to create a feeling of being in charge, leaving another as disempowered as they dreaded they themselves would be. Their defense (aka attack) mode makes them spiral into fearing outward oppression more and more, their surrender is impossible. The Eight will become a megalomaniac shoving away everything that's between them and their throne. They drift from controlling themselves and defending others to controlling others and defending themselves. Their true innocent and vital nature becomes dictatorial.

    A Six is in complete distrust when they are unhealthy. Everything in the world is a menace to them. Their suspicion and vigilance in order to feel secure develop into a paranoia aimed at conservation of what they can hold on to (hence Sixes are called Traditionalist sometimes). It has to be set and established for them, they don't destroy like an Eight would. Paranoia shields them from others, further making them worry about being forsaken. Their ability to be loyal and a troubleshooting companion is wasted as they are now withdrawing their faith out of insecurity. And so others withdraw, and the Six becomes even more suspicious and less devoted. And if they're counterphobic, they'll destroy what makes them insecure, causing more harm than good on both sides. The counterphobic Six has polarizing attitudes around caution. They would be the person beating up an Eight bully, both ending up hospitalized.


    DECISION PROCESS & REACTIONS


    The Eight makes decisions from the gut. That happens quickly and impulsively with confidence. There is less place for being wary since the eight goes the pragmatic route toward the strength they desire. They like to implement it all the way they want it directly. Their drive is to be self-reliant and potent, so there's no room for anxiety games, trust issues, or thinking what could go wrong since that downsizes them. They simply cannot allow themselves to be afraid.

    The Six makes decisions from the head. They ponder, often getting into a spiral of worry. So it takes more time, especially for the phobic type. They can self-defeat. The counterphobic Six is willing to decide to `act against´ faster but again it comes from a calculated mindset. It's cerebral and in fright of different scenarios that they thought up. The Six won't be a visionary leading their fate, they navigate life to evade certain fates, especially their worst-case-scenario that's always present.

    Eight is confident in their ability to handle things, they confront it all as it comes. They even provoke it! "Try me!" is the Eight's challenging phrase. Eights would rather be the one taking the first step, act > react. Their leader courage is inbuilt. They are the forward-charging improviser of the gut triad, with the Nine as the accommodator who tags along, and the One who micromanages. There's nothing fearful about their disposition. That would be weak anyway, which is unacceptable. To fear is to submit to danger already - and submission is the Eight's absolute kryptonite. They instinctively feel that they MUST project larger-than-life power (confer Ice Cube as a good example), otherwise they portray the opposite, subjugation. They'll step on you before you step on them.

    Six prepares, observes nervously. React > act, their courage is lacking, the phobic Six in particular may end up as a coward. They will only provoke to test someone's standpoint out of feeling uneasy and quizzical. "Is it really like that?" is the Six phrase. They are way more future-oriented because that is where a potential threat rests - or could rest. A six chases a castle of glass more than often, and they designed it themselves since their experience tells them to distrust, to question. Nothing is ever safe enough for a Six. Reacting to anything, you will see their skepticism. It'll show in the body language, too. Observe Ryan Gosling who's counterphobic. He fidgets around, the trembles, he looks into every direction. You spot a Six by how they double-check, all the time.


    RELATIONS


    Eight would never choose to really chain themselves to anybody. If they have the opportunity, that is. Eights suffer under their lack of freedom in a way, especially with a seven-wing. But they already know about this lack of opportunity. The world, for the Eight, is unjust, unbalanced. As mentioned above, it's all about eating or being eaten, it's black-and-white here, and they just toughen up to deal with it as good as they can. They will relate to another only as the one with more power. Lust is powerful and takes instead of giving (ensuring dominance), which can motivate Eights into a union.

    The Six needs a guide. Something or someone they can confide in. An orientation. People, a partner, certain property (this is where the instincts start). A sign, just anything. Even just an idea, especially when they wing at Five. Six is helpless otherwise. They are clingy when in their phobic mode, have no problem with being the less powerful one at all, as long as they are safe. The cp Six will lash out quick, but they still doubt and look for a higher guidance. Six actually makes a good match to an Eight who's the leader.


    (DIS)INTEGRATION


    The Eight can borrow from the Five's intellectual approach when under stress. They observe, even when it's not necessary. They suddenly want to outsmart what makes them feel weak. They hoard secrets for unfulfilled vengeance when they are unable to overcome adversary. Although they'd do better not closing themselves off from this enemy. The Eight integrating Two is big-hearted because the realize how they can love another, and how they can receive love which seems foreign to them in their natural strong/weak tug-of-war state. Then, they are ready and open for affection and can reconcile things without being subdued. Even the angriest Eight has the potential to become a generous people-pleaser who is adored.

    The Six's desire to be secure through others can become a self-validation problem. Look at me! This cry of Three promises support from others. It's easier to say that than making all the efforts of being loyal oneself to earn loyalty in return. Disintegration always gives us a short route to deal with stress upon the core fear. In the case of the Six, wanting another person's approval can be a quick fix to get them the people to rely on. When that security is naturally given and the core fear at ease, the Six can become accepting and unity-seeking like a Nine, who is finally ready to be peaceful and not anxious.

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    So, Sixes are dumb and Eights don't even have to think in the first place because they're badasses, and all the 6s are going to like this post anyways because they need something to cling to, despite it insulting them. Woo woo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    So, Sixes are dumb and Eights don't even have to think in the first place because they're badasses, and all the 6s are going to like this post anyways because they need something to cling to, despite it insulting them. Woo woo.
    Nothing there about 6s being dumb, but rather them being cerebral. There is mention of dependency, but I think healthy 6s can learn to become independent.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    6w7-9w1-4w5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Nothing there about 6s being dumb, but rather them being cerebral. There is mention of dependency, but I think healthy 6s can learn to become independent.
    6s also think everything in the world is a menance, while 8s don't have either of those problems to overcome in the first place. Enneagram types are also supposed to be inescapable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Nothing there about 6s being dumb, but rather them being cerebral. There is mention of dependency, but I think healthy 6s can learn to become independent.
    6s can also be too independent. But:
    3. In fact, there is nothing like a phobic Six or a counterphobic Six. Regarding the dichotomies, Ichazo writes: "The dichotomies are not opposed as in dialectics but rather circulate as in trialectics. That is, they become polarities. They are not contradictory." [2] All Sixes alternate between phobic moments and counterphobic moments according to the circumstances of their lives. For any Six, phobia or counterphobia is a majority tendency; the other side is always present, even if some Sixes with dominant counterphobic qualities hardly like to admit it.
    8 type-wise is more anti-intellectual as opposed to 6 whose actually a head type so it is focused on thoughts whereas 8 just kind of "do" and dont think alot (esp w7 like Trump...). 6 is consciously counter-phobic and 8 is unconsciously counter-phobic.

    slightly OT but it's common that you see 8s that are overweight because it makes them feel bigger and more powerful and like they can consume the world


    Oh and I type gosling 9. Hes not reactive.
    Last edited by eko; 07-29-2017 at 09:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    So, Sixes are dumb and Eights don't even have to think in the first place because they're badasses, and all the 6s are going to like this post anyways because they need something to cling to, despite it insulting them. Woo woo.
    You are the one who's trying to insult actually, you have this tendency in many posts. Straw man deluxe. I can only encourage you to watch out for this fallacy, it's only hurting you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    You are the one who's trying to insult actually, you have this tendency in many posts. Straw man deluxe. I can only encourage you to watch out for this fallacy, it's only hurting you.
    Just because it seems/is insulting doesn't mean it's not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    Just because it seems/is insulting doesn't mean it's not true.
    Truth is good. And truth can hurt. I feel you. (My dual is spilling logics in a similar manner) Yet - it may help to differentiate between suggesting (empathetic, loving, lenient) and attacking (egocentric and condescending), it'll make much more of a difference in the people realm. Memo to myself as well obviously since I commit this crime daily, but the point is that before you mock, come up with something better yourself, otherwise you're a loyal opposition to what you criticize which brings about no change which would be better for both parties. Write your own 6 VS 8 guide, I'll read it and give feedback in a constructive manner.

    What I think is that truth means and achieves nothing if you don't have a heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Truth is good. And truth can hurt. I feel you. (My dual is spilling logics in a similar manner) Yet - it may help to differentiate between suggesting (empathetic, loving, lenient) and attacking (egocentric and condescending), it'll make much more of a difference in the people realm. Memo to myself as well obviously since I commit this crime daily, but the point is that before you mock, come up with something better yourself, otherwise you're a loyal opposition to what you criticize which brings about no change which would be better for both parties. Write your own 6 VS 8 guide, I'll read it and give feedback in a constructive manner.

    What I think is that truth means and achieves nothing if you don't have a heart.
    This is somewhat true, but reprimanding me like some sort of Tumblr Eckhart Tolle isn't the best way to get that across. Most of getting people on your side is just a sort of knowing crowd dynamics. If no one thinks they can be angry, acting angry gets them on your side (see: most popular atheists). There's no one size fits all for anything. I'd write a constructive guide for 6 vs. 8 if enneagram seemed to refer to anything in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    This is somewhat true, but reprimanding me like some sort of Tumblr Eckhart Tolle isn't the best way to get that across. Most of getting people on your side is just a sort of knowing crowd dynamics. If no one thinks they can be angry, acting angry gets them on your side (see: most popular atheists). There's no one size fits all for anything. I'd write a constructive guide for 6 vs. 8 if enneagram seemed to refer to anything in the first place.
    If enneagram doesn't refer to anything, and no one size fits all for anything, and you don't care - why are you here? Reminds me EXACTLY of Singularity, stays on a Socionics forum bashing Socionics in vain wasting time. Raver's typology cycle is in progress there. Human nature is a wonder. If I am Tumblr Eckhart Tolle (which is great, he's an advanced thinker), you are both Don Quixote Denial is the greatest part of an addiction

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    i like delta NFs but I feel like on some level they live in a fantasy world that they have the privelege of espousing because others make the sacrifices they spend their time criticizing

    I dunno, I feel like theres value in it, but its more like one extreme that needs to be balanced, God help us if they ever ran shit for real

    then again, I imagine a time will come when perhaps that will be precisely what's needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    i like delta NFs but I feel like on some level they live in a fantasy world that they have the privelege of espousing because others make the sacrifices they spend their time criticizing

    I dunno, I feel like theres value in it, but its more like one extreme that needs to be balanced, God help us if they ever ran shit for real

    then again, I imagine a time will come when perhaps that will be precisely what's needed
    Delta perfects paradise on earth. We're the last ones. Just wait.

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    yeah I suppose every quadra thinks the one after them owes them one and is overly critical

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    yeah I suppose every quadra thinks the one after them owes them one and is overly critical
    Could be, essentially it's all about valued elements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    If enneagram doesn't refer to anything, and no one size fits all for anything, and you don't care - why are you here? Reminds me EXACTLY of Singularity, stays on a Socionics forum bashing Socionics in vain wasting time. Raver's typology cycle is in progress there. Human nature is a wonder. If I am Tumblr Eckhart Tolle (which is great, he's an advanced thinker), you are both Don Quixote Denial is the greatest part of an addiction
    It's not an enneagram forum in the first place.

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    There's too many complaints about people using neuroses as their type, and not enough about them making a type into a neurosis.



    ...barring the fact that every enneatype is itself a neurosis, but people can't weigh them equally enough. Only the annoying ones are actually seen as irl neuroses, while the outwardly more functional but equally destructive are seen as understandable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Shut the fuck up, dumbass.

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    People hate it whenever I quote things instead of just arguing bluntly, so if that's not good enough, ask about it afterwards. I think quoting things like this is generally more effective than arguing bluntly. This isn't even some sort of "obscure literature or lore" (as Alioth's called it). It's just Simon and Garfunkel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    It's not an enneagram forum in the first place.
    Nope but it's part of what we do, it would be one-dimensional not to branch out





    The forum people enjoy it and get interested in knowing about themselves which is our legitimate and original purpose here.

    @Alioth



    (The way you both act here makes me sure you are head types btw)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alioth View Post
    There's too many complaints about people using neuroses as their type, and not enough about them making a type into a neurosis.



    ...barring the fact that every enneatype is itself a neurosis, but people can't weigh them equally enough. Only the annoying ones are actually seen as irl neuroses, while the outwardly more functional but equally destructive are seen as understandable.
    Thus we have integration and self-improvement enneagram texts to counter that which is another purpose of the theory. What you wrote is a complaint in and of itself People are not static. Blame Naranjo for bringing in the concept in a wrong way, and society for being unhealthy apparently, which is both hard to change unless your mentality does.

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    I have the real book of ancient enneagram knowledge, actually:



    Any questions? That is, if mortal minds can comprehend.

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    @Wyrd test test #8744 #4832 #0922 satanic enneagram bot detected


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    im curious chae, what do you think of my enneagram type

    i honestly don't fully "get" enneagram, in that it seems so incredibly deep and yet at the same time people throw it around like its nothing, where its like I feel like if people really "got" it they would be near perfect, becauses its the project of fundamentally identifying your most primordial problem with tips on how to fix it. how can people not respond to that and treat it like some kind of "fun" method of categorization. I dont know if Ill ever get that

    not saying you do this, it appears to me like you have as good a grasp on anyone on this, so Im curious to know what you think

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Thus we have integration and self-improvement enneagram texts to counter that which is another purpose of the theory. What you wrote is a complaint in and of itself People are not static. Blame Naranjo for bringing in the concept in a wrong way, and society for being unhealthy apparently, which is both hard to change unless your mentality does.
    Then maybe he's the one at fault. I don't have the time or energy to seriously consume typology literature anymore, I just see the same old fallacies on these sites coming from somewhere. I think Wyrd articulated the point more laconically than I could have.


    Really, the only point I can't understand is why someone with a true fear of being harmed and controlled wouldn't consider altering his strategy if circumstances demanded it. It's implying that a fear of pain also grants you to capability to brute-force your way out of any scenario by sheer willpower alone. Like your fear really extends to parts of your person that the psyche alone can't fully control.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post


    Touche.


    @Alioth



    (The way you both act here makes me sure you are head types btw)

    Wow, being a nuisance makes you a head type, who knew. Idk how much attention you've been paying but most of my time here is spent doing the equivalent of slapping my internet cock around. Not an erect cock either, a flaccid cock. For no reason but it feeling good and doing no long-term harm to anyone. And, no offense, but if you really look at it it's not that far removed from your own behavior. I mean unless you can ascribe some profound social significance to posting tumblr gifs and arguing almost exclusively in gender studies jargon.


    But of course you can't seriously find fun in slapping your cock around on a cult pseudoscience forum because psychology doesn't have room for innocent fun, it's obviously a phallic reaction-formation or some shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Shut the fuck up, dumbass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    I have the real book of ancient enneagram knowledge, actually:



    Any questions? That is, if mortal minds can comprehend.
    I like that it has a bush

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    @Alioth Okay!

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    For me, and maybe because I'm one of the two, it's a very clear and easy difference to tell, except maybe most superficially through online writing.

    It's all about gut vs mental triad.

    gut types are .... not moved or concerned by reason especially when triggered. They don't take strength or certainty from getting verbalized reasons or evidence, even. Quite the opposite. 6s on the other hand want their mental, more rational and analytical needs tended to, or even in terms of their want for companionship.

    6s, eps counterphobic, will "use people" for closeness, and then basically drop them, out of a sense of security.
    8s, when triggered, are more likely to drop relational carpet bombs and have everyone become questionable in terms of relationship nature of stability. Although I wonder if that's more so true for logical type 8s.


    6s become judgemental about peoples appearance or ability to have success when gripped
    8s create more egoic-relational distance from people. But to me even their "using" of people feels very different than 6s using people, when gripped.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I am culturally raped to prefer 8s over 6s but I would rather hang around healthy 4s more than any other type I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    i honestly don't fully "get" enneagram, in that it seems so incredibly deep and yet at the same time people throw it around like its nothing, where its like I feel like if people really "got" it they would be near perfect, becauses its the project of fundamentally identifying your most primordial problem with tips on how to fix it. how can people not respond to that and treat it like some kind of "fun" method of categorization. I dont know if Ill ever get that
    There's a difference between knowing yourself and fully acting on that knowledge or realizing how to get to a better place. For instance, I work in a customer service position and the self-righteousness I deal with every day has really gotten to me lately. Sure, I know that I'm a good worker and I should let their comments roll off my back like water on a duck and all that, but does that help me not tense up whenever some scowling new person comes in each hour? No. It doesn't.

    Also, for me at least, a lot of it is self-deprecating humor.
    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
    Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd

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