Keto diet
Has anyone on this forum tried Keto before or is currently on it?
If you have tried it before, how did it go for you ? Why did you go on it? Was it effective to that purpose?
Any side effects to consider? Any tips or tricks? Resources for beginners? Other diets you prefered?
: ) thanks for sharing your experience. I can't imagine what it would be like living on 0 carbs!Originally Posted by Maan
how long were you on it and were there any side effects once you went off it?
Definitely check out the keto subreddit.
The best advice I can give you is to take electrolyte supplements for the first week or two.
SP/SX
5w4
I wouldn't do it. The poster posted their results, and the effect of dieting as an idea is pretty much just to induce neurosis. I'm not sure anything you could eat without feeling obviously sick is going to have a worse effect on your health than "Oh no, I can't eat this, am I eating enough of that...?" If you're using the diet because you're neurotic anyways, I'd just address that instead. If you're dieting because you're an athlete or you just have some dietary restriction due to being in a religion, that's to achieve an end. If the diet itself is the end, you're just killing yourself worrying about your health.
I've tried Keto before, and I am not on it anymore. Thankfully.Has anyone on this forum tried Keto before or is currently on it?
If you have tried it before, how did it go for you ? Why did you go on it? Was it effective to that purpose?
Any side effects to consider? Any tips or tricks? Resources for beginners? Other diets you prefered?
It went okay for a while, until I got the infamous "Keto rash" (on my stomach).
That was the point when I knew for sure it wasn't right for me... The rash disappeared right after I ate more carbs again.
Other side effects were lower energy, fatigue, brain fog, etc.
I wanted to lose body fat. Keto wasn't any better than just counting calories or other methods.
If you want to lose body fat, then go with whatever diet fits your body and your personal food favorites the best, and count calories.
Ideally you count macros, so that you get enough protein in your diet and don't lose too much muscle when you are in a caloric deficit.
Currently I am eating with these macros: 35% Carbs, 30% Fat, 35% Protein.
Combined with a flexible diet (mostly fruits and vegetables, but also some processed stuff) and intermittent fasting.
This works pretty well for me. If you are a Meso-Endo like me, those Macros could work well for you.
If you are an Ecto-something, eating higher Carb and lower Fat than that could suit you better.
Keto seems to work best for people who are Endomorphs and love fatty foods.
Besides, Vegan seems to work best for health-conscious Ectomorphs.
I've tried both, neither worked too well for me. Too many negative side effects.
And it is very easy to end up being deficient in nutrients.
Seems very unhealthy. Vegetables and fruits is the main source of vitamins and it seems crazy to limit it to only 5% (and eliminating fruit completely????). What works for me is cutting out white flour, dairy and unnatural sugars. I feel gross after eating alot of dense food like bread, pasta, meat etc and it also gives me stomach issues which is the reason I eliminated flour in the first place.
The fact that people experience "keto rash" like Medusa mentioned (I had never heard of it before) should raise a red flag for most people that it is not healthy.
Yeah, I find your advice quite sensible in this regard.
The thing is, not everyone gets the "keto rash". It depends on the person. For me, it definitely meant it was not healthy.
It might work for some other people. Other people never get that rash, supposedly.
Don't need a diet, I love myself
You can eat a lot of vegetables even if they are only 5 percent of you caloric intake. You can also get all the nutrition that comes from fruit by eating vegetables.
The side effects are due to your body going through withdrawal. Sugar, especially processed sugar, is highly addictive. For me the side effects lasted about two weeks. For others they last a few days. Some people have no side effects at all. The point is don't mistake symptoms of withdrawal for symptoms of ketosis.
Getting the keto rash is rare. I have heard it goes away eventually, but if you do get it then it is probably best to try something else.
SP/SX
5w4
Just try it yourself.
Stick with it for a couple weeks/months and see if your body responds, you never know.
People have unique metabolisms, therefore the nutrients/balance maybe be appropriate for one person, inappropriate for a second, and detrimental for a third.
For example, some people might benefit from a high protein diet which would lead them to feel high energy and healthy, but for others the identical diet would problematically lead to weight gain and fatigue. Such people might need a low protein/high carbohydrate diet for the same effect, due to differences in how their bodies metabolise food.
Therefore, through trial and error, you're going to have figure out what works for YOU.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 07-15-2017 at 02:52 PM.
The Keto rash is actually not as rare as it may seem.
I used to be in a Keto FB group, and most people somehow didn't want to talk about the rash.
After more research, I came to the conclusion that a lot of people start Keto but don't actually stick with it, for several reasons; and that is probably a big part of the reason why not too many people report getting a rash. They simply don't stick with it consistently for long enough to get it. Basically, the vast majority of people have tried Keto, and those people who report being on it are in the early stage. Beyond the early stage, it is rare to find people who still do Keto without occasional "cheat meals". Sure, they exist, but based on what I have read and seen, it seems like only very few people stick with Keto happily, strictly, and unproblematically.
I don't necessarily want to scare off the OP. If they are one of the few who love and do well on Keto, great.
If they get the rash, just stop. It is not just a "detox" phase, it is literally your body saying you don't have enough Carbs.
Even when your body switches to using ketones for fuel, a lot of functions of the brain are still based on carbs I have read...
The only thing that got rid of my rash and the rash of those I have talked to was eating more carbs again.
Anyway,
Good luck.
P.S: The rash appeared rather prominently after around 3-4 weeks. Red little pimples on my stomach. When it seemed like I'd get pimples like that on my back too, I stopped.
Though I've been really lazy and gotten off the diet, the best I've felt was when I was doing spanish keto. I ate fish for protein and healthy Omega 3s(DHA/EPA)... ate a lot of healthy fats in avocados,nuts, olives, coconut oil/meat. Ate cheese for the butyric acid. Grass fed butter Ate a ton of green vegetables(broccoli,spinach). If you are committed to exercising regularly, cyclical keto is very good. One thing about this diet though is that your body gets rid of fluids especially easy on this diet. As a result, you need to drink a ton of water. With the fluids go the electrolytes, so drinking a couple of cups of chicken/beef broth a day while adding some potassium salt(no-salt) to the liquid is a good way to get extra electrolytes. Magnesium supplements are important as well This is the best diet for weight loss imho.
While I think this is a good diet... I don't think its the best diet If you are at an optimal weight, I'd recommend doing something similar... but in addition not going completely into ketosis... instead eat foods with resistant starches along with the above. Most people don't realize that chemistry behind what they are eating. For example, if you boil a potato... if you eat it right after you cook it, you'll be eating a ton of starches that are easily digestible. If you chill the potatoes before eating them however, the starches will reconfigure into something called a resistant starch that do not digest very easily. Instead the bacteria in your gut will take the resistant starch and convert it into butyric acid(which quite frankly I think is one of the most important things that people are missing from their diets in the modern age of food consumption). Most people produce far too much propionic acid, which I do not think that our brains(and bodies) are built to handle. If you eat oatmeal, don't cook the oats... instead soak it over night in some sort of milk. Rice that is cooked and chilled has a ton of resistant starches. Beans have resistant starches. Also fiber(both soluble and insoluble) are very important.
If you are at a healthy weight, I also do not see the point in avoiding fruit or other important vegetables that have vital minerals/nutrients.
Model X Will Save Us!
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I was on the Atkins diet twice, and spent most of the time there in ketosis.
The first time I tried it, it took about a week to get into ketosis, and it wasn't really a hardship, but I pretty much ignore my body regardless of what is happening to it. I did get a keto rash, but ignored it and it eventually went away. While I was on the diet, I lost weight and effortlessly kept it off, became a slightly better runner, felt like my joints were "greased" and easier to move, and felt more alert most of the time. In the two years that I was on that diet, I was not hungry once. When my body needed more food, I would feel tired, but never hungry. I had my blood checked several times, and my good cholesterol was up, the bad cholesterol was down, and I generally felt good every day. The doctors were amazed.
What eventually broke that diet regimen was my craving for chocolate. I just could not give up chocolate. Eventually, I included more and more of it into my diet and dropped out of ketosis, and then dropped the diet entirely so I could eat some of the things I hadn't eaten in years.
The diet allows you to eat just about as much fat and protein as you can stand, and you will still lose weight. What most people don't realize about the diet is that it is a low-calorie diet. You are allowed to eat only certain things, and even though you can have as much bacon and eggs as you want every day, you eventually get so tired of them that it becomes hard to keep eating them. Hence, low calorie.
When I went off the diet, I regained the weight I had lost, and got hungry again. I concluded that carbs make you feel hungry.
After a year or so passed, I decided to go back onto the diet. Breakfast consisted of a half or full pound of bacon fried in grease, two eggs cooked in the bacon grease, and a cup of heavy whipping cream sweetened with Splenda. I completely cut out bread, pastries, milk, sugars, soft drinks, deserts, most fruits, and basically anything that wasn't fat or protein. Once again, I lost weight and felt better, but after about six months, my teeth were plaqueing up heavily and I developed intestinal bleeding, which scared the blood out of me. (Lol.)
I attributed these things to the fat tearing up all the tubes in my body. I think that tooth plaque is similar to the stuff that clogs arteries, and I was producing a lot of it. I think my arteries were being torn up, along with my intestines, so I dropped all the fat and protein and switched to a strictly Vegan diet. (How's that for just blindly trying stuff without reading the manual?)
The bleeding stopped in one day. My teeth became almost completely free of plaque in a week. And then my fingernails got horizontal ridges from a protein deficiency. I added an amount of salmon equal to the size of a deck of cards to my diet, and the ridges vanished.
I've read books which say you can reverse heart disease by eating only plants, and I think eating mostly plants has improved my health, but I personally can't seem to get enough protein from a diet of plants alone. Your mileage may vary.
I now have salmon and pickles or olives for breakfast, along with almond milk and a small amount of Ezekial 4:9 cereal and a vegetable protein supplement to the almond milk. I probably overload on protein at breakfast, but it starts the day.
Morning snack is an orange or a half-banana or a pear, or a handfull of almonds or cashews.
Lunch is a salad with all vegetables and no dressing, or sometimes a bowl of purely vegetable soup, and coffee. No soft drinks, no milk, no fruit juices, only water or tea or coffee.
Afternoon snacks are raw celery sticks.
Dinner might be a falafel with hummus, some tabouli, or just another salad. If I'm in a restaurant, I'll have anything that doesn't include red meat or potatoes, which I dislike. Fish, maybe some pasta dish, maybe something the restaurant is known for. No alcohol at all.
Sometimes, rarely, maybe twice a month, I will have a Burger King Whopper or a McD sausage egg McMuffin, no cheese, because I like them. They are guilty pleasures. Maybe once every six weeks I will binge on a pint of vanilla ice cream, but I know it it terrible for me. I'll also eat one or two chocolate bars a week.
@Adam Strange, your journey reminds me of my own... There seems to be a trend of some SP blindspot people getting into extreme diets (when they move to SP), but then they also end up nutrient-deficient in many ways because they mess it up.Or they simply fail to listen to their bodies. (To be fair, that can happen to different stackings, too.)
I probably should have mentioned that during my Keto phase, I was hardly eating any meat. It was almost like Vegetarian Keto.
So it was technically the worst... haha.
Actually, if I remember correctly, Keto also gave me some plaque issues... Sigh.
I did Atkins years ago and lost 40 lbs in about 6 months. It definitley works; however, it's extremely difficult. I have been trying to do it again, I just can't stick to it. I think if you can make it past the first week, you're good to go. Whenever I start it, I get super ill and have zero energy. I don't know if I am a good source though because I quite literally only ate meat for two years -- not even salad. My stomach shrunk so much that when I would eat anything other than meat, I would get horrible stomach cramps.
Oh and let's be honest, the second you go off this diet, you're going to gain everything back. We all say we'll work out and continue to eat good to prevent this, but it never happens. You get those first few tastes of sugar and carbs and it's all downhill from there and good luck dealing with getting even fatter. I'm sorry, just being honest. Diets like this are extremely difficult. I think it is much wiser to eat how you want and just workout.
Personally, I don't think the Keto diet is worth it, because you can get healthier and lose weight/fat (sustainably) without having most of your calories come from fat.
You can easily manage 5% carbs if you eat 10,000 calories of other shit.
Another thing is nutrient loss. If you cook broccoli in water for example the nutrients migrate from the broccoli into the water. Which is ok if you drink the broth too.
I basically agree with you, if you want to lose a good amount of fat it may be for you but is an extreme diet.
Those shit carbs are worse for you than fats. Protein reduces appetite when ingested. Fat has a neutral effect on appetite. Carbohydrates at first lower appetite but then the appetite comes back with a vengeance and makes you hungrier than even before you ate.
I had a nutrition professor say never eat anything white. Except cauliflower. But what you said does reduce potato starch. Actually never heard that before. Had to look it up. I am reading a book on nutrition and metabolism right now. Biochemistry is complex and boring as fuck. lol.
Oh, and about oils. Try some sardines.
"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
Another example is sweet potatoes. People will hear that sweet potatoes are healthy(and they are). People will get them and instead of boiling them which is the most effective way of cooking them... they will put them in the oven and cook them at high temperatures. This pretty much turns the sweet potato into candy, breaking down the more complex starches into simple sugars. The GI of oven cooked sweet potato v.s. boiled sweet potato is incredibly different.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
Speaking of sweet potatoes and nutrient loss. I bought some sweet potato chips/fries things in the health section of the store. Sweet potatoes have a lot of Vitamin A. These sweet potato chips have 0% Vitamin A. lol. That is typical. I actually have found chips though that have retained their nutrients. I think drying is where more most nutrients are lost. Our society is overfed and undernourished at the same time. Tons of calories. Few micronutrients.
And I was an idiot who juiced carrots and other things. All that sugar without the fiber to slow it down and absorb it. At least the juice kept the nutrients tho. I also put my sweet potatoes in the oven. lol. Thanks for the info. I have no clue about cooking foods.
"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
Lol, I'm not even sure how they pulled that off. They had to have torched those chips.
Model X Will Save Us!
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I tried it and ended up dropping down to 18.9 BMI. While most of the weight I lost was probably water-weight, an 18.9 BMI is still dangerously close to being underweight. I started focusing on building lean muscle mass instead, which is healthier than being thin.
I also couldn't sleep, making any of the cognitive benefits more-or-less irrelevant.
My nutritionist friend's professional opinion is that it's unhealthy to cut carbs out completely, and that doing so could damage the liver, among other things.
Welp, I was on keto for the past 3 months. I lost around 9kg, and while still in the normal BMI range I would've kept losing weight had I not stopped. Physically I felt fine, except for the fact that I developed the keto rash, and that is why I stopped now, among other things. Not eating any carbs is fucking miserable, though, and it impacted my mental health because I couldn't figure out what to eat by the end since I was so sick of eating meat and eggs and salad.
I'm eating carbs now but staying away from any refined ones like sugar and white flour and my weight has been static at where it was when I stopped keto, with less fluctuations than before. Honestly for losing weight it's really quick. I wasn't even doing it for that, but I can't deny the lucrative aspect. It might be worth it, in the short term, if you manage to control yourself enough afterwards to not go into a carb binging frenzy. Thankfully I can.
The worst part of all of this is that I was doing it to counter insulin resistance. But it turns out, it might have made my insulin resistance worse. I'm going to go for high fiber, + exercising now.
There's two keys to losing weight: less calories, more exercise.
That's all. Everything else is fluff.
If you want to be healthy, I would avoid excess carbs, get quality protein, and eat the veggies.
It's not really that complicated. If you have allergies or something like Crohn's or diabetes, it has to be more complicated. But that's an exception to the rule.
A lot of people have an issue staying satiated when dieting. To some degree, that problem can't be helped. But a lot of people find fewer carbs to be helpful. Fiber helps some people.
There's a genetic subtype that regulates rate of sugar clearance from the blood. A sugar drop will cause feelings of hunger. If you have the genetic subtype where sugar is cleared more quickly, carbs will make you feel hungry more quickly. But you're also less likely to get diabetes. But you can't handle fasting as well either.
If you're the other subtype, carbs will stay with you longer, but you are at a greater risk of diabetes from carbs.
The gene in question is the CLTCL1 gene. Populations descended from native Americans and similar hunter gatherer societies tend to have the more diabetes prone subtype at a higher rate. Populations that are more agricultural historically tend to have the other.
As far as weight goes, 70% is genetic and 30% is not. Have realistic expectations. If you try to lose too much weight, your body is going to counterbalance your attempt.
Last edited by Aramas; 12-15-2020 at 05:14 PM.
That diet is so stupidly popular among Sea Org. I swear a quarter of the SO must be on the keto fad.
I don't see the point in most diets personally. If you want to lose weight, track calories and burn calories. You can still eat like shit and lose weight. I did just that a year ago, lost 5 inches on the waist and better believe I was still eating my Mcnuggets. Just didn't go over 1,600 calories a day, walked a total of 5 miles a day, did lots of calisthenics every day, and did powerlifting three times a week. That's all there was to it, easy as hell, just be consistent and don't drop the ball.
That being said I have considered many times becoming dietary vegan for purely disciplinary reasons.
I can't do it. I have to have animal products. Plus it's too much work to do vegan right. No telling what kinds of deficiencies I'd end up with. Being omnivorous is best way to make sure you're not missing anything.
A 2018 study published in The Lancet has produced results, based on an analysis of over 15,000 people over 25 years, about the mortality effects of a low-carbohydrate diet.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...135-X/fulltext
The study (along with its figures) indicates that both low-carb and high-carb diets are associated with higher mortality.
Thanks for that.
great usage of Se there. Maybe your awareness of physical reality does exist in a void.
Tbh the only "diet" I like is classic old school Weight Watcher points. I used that this week and lost 5 pounds and I exercised more and I feel a lot stronger/better. My entire body just feels harder. I need to lose about 35 more pounds & gain more muscle so I'm going to keep it up. I could never do a diet that is too restrictive- I like old school WW the best because I can have everything I want I just have to make the points for it. I don't like restricting myself too much by specialized diets where so many foods are off-limits. Sweets/junk/trash just tastes good and doesn't fill you up and the system naturally limits those things as you really don't have the points for them much anyway.
Yeah the hardest thing about it is staying on track and counting points- it can be easy to drift off without encouragement or support- that's kind of a tricky thing about it- that yeah you can have everything you want, but if you're not counting your points accurately and being stringent with it it's not going to work. You can't just half-ass do them in your head, you really need to write them down and stay on course for it to be effective. For three weeks in a row what I was doing wrong was I was counting points for breakfast but then in the middle of the day I just lazily gave up and ate too much for lunch & dinner and so program didn't work- but now I just force myself to do it for all my meals and it works great.
The newer system is too Te and dumb though. I don't like it... they made a lot more foods free or decreased the point values of "healthy" foods - like apples used to be 1 point now they are 0 on the new plan, but like if you want a can of soda that's now like 9 points instead of 3 points in the old system or something like that... to encourage healthier eating & to stop people from eating foods that are objectively more unhealthy. But really I'd rather do the old school program - I don't need that much hand holding to not stupidly try to waste all my points eating snickers bars ((which is like in the classic system, they changed things around because they were too worried people would just use all their points on fast food or junky shit - which isn't very practical anyway because you'd still be hungry and over-eat anyway...)). You don't idiotically use the entire points a day on snickers bars or pepsi like the Te managers thought people would - but on the old school program I can STILL have a treat sometimes without feeling like cutting myself.
That literally shows how stupid you are where you not only delude yourself but want to gaslight others. It's got everything to do with Se which you know nothing about. Being aware of static reality is upheld by Se leads. You got rashes from a fucking dumb fad diet knowing you've got health challenges isn't "ignoring Si" it's actually Si PoLR. That's literally textbook EIE Si PoLR, which btw isn't just about being a total dumbass about health stuff, but Si is about psychological stability which you show you don't have.
Stop cherrypicking socionics like your rashes and go leech off some other type. Probably a type that no one else has been verified so you can keep up with your delusional self-image without running the risk that I'm still around and you're still full of shit piggybacking off me.
@Lolita I never said I didn't know what the rash was from. I just ignored it. And you don't know my life or anything that led up to that point, you don't know my worldview, you don't know shit about how I act on my feelings and what I base my decisions on. Plus, check the definition for 'gaslighting', I have not tried to gaslight anyone.
You're here claiming EIE for everyone who even dares to say they're SEE without being 'verified' and have your cronies like your posts to give you a little self esteem boost so you can continue on your battle typing crusade instead of offering constructive feedback on the threads asking for an SEEs opinion, or just interacting calmly with others. If you're such a strong verified SEE go ahead and give good feedback and advice on how an SEE behaves, talks and thinks, and then we can discuss.
I'm not going to get scared just because you called me stupid and a gaslighter, and I would really like to see where Si is about 'psychological stability' because you clearly show you don't have it either, resorting to petty insults of the like. (And btw, mental illness is a real thing. Are you saying no sensor suffers from it?)
We can talk shit like this all day and there's going to be no proof about who's frothing at the mouth behind the screen because we can both claim that we aren't and there's no way to confirm that. On my end this discussion is finished, I have asked you once before to take your comments about my type to my (outdated) typing thread since you have no trouble digging through my posts for proof. If you can discuss it calmly without resorting to being petty I will hear you out, but I don't think you will. Goodbye.
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