Gordon Ramsay

[moloko]

I reeeeaaaaally like Gordon Ramsay.



So fuckin irrational. You can just feel the Se-Ti here. lol
I vote ESTp.

[wasp]

i think he has a great sense of humor. he's not supposed to be funny at work. his restaurants have been awarded 16 michelin stars in total. he doesn't get those by pussyfooting or wise-cracking when everything's going to shit. he does it by strapping himself the fuck in and getting shit DONE, even if that means stepping on his employees toes every once in a while (or, alternatively, all the time). he doesn't get angry because it's fun to yell at people for no reason, he gets angry because these people have been doing this job for years, and what you see on tv isn't a holistic representation of what happens before and after those scenes. missing context. there's time constraints, there's human errors and there's technical errors, there's a lot of history between ramsey and his employees that we don't see. where he chooses to yell at his employees, the rest of us would probably just break down crying, slit our wrists, and crawl into a hole and die. even then, though, i don't think he takes pride in yelling at them. he's funny when it's appropriate, such as on talks shows or anywhere that isn't high-stakes. he'll crack jokes, pull pranks, and have himself a grand ol' time.

his children even describe him as a "big kid" and his family (seemingly) adores him. i'd love to hear how a man THAT dedicated to his family could possibly be Fi PoLR. i always interpreted his penchant for children as a sign of Fi-seeking, but i've observed this pattern in LSEs more than i have LIEs. EIE just seems like an edgy typing that people like to throw out to give the false impression that they've tapped into something "deeper" than the rest of us. Ij temperament? how is he energy-conserving? i can definitely see some aspects of LSI in him, but it seems like a huge stretch to label him any Ij type. most of the evidence that i've seen supporting beta ST could apply to any type in the pragmatic club, at least that's what it seems like from my pov. he's the Ej temperament in a nutshell. he even VIs as LSE with his slightly hooded eyes and tense yet approachable grin. if there's any validity to the photo compositions of temperaments and their respective "sitting" positions, then he's pretty clearly Ej in that department as well. (extroverted, at the very least) i don't see how Si isn't observable when that's literally what his job revolves around. why is it assumed that he doesn't care about working conditions? he had a strong disdain for a restaurant owner who forced his children to work 10am-10pm 7 days a week:

[neproblems]

Completely agree with LSE


"Extroverted logic deals with the external activity of objects, i.e the how, what and where of events, activity or work, behaviour, algorithms, movement, and actions"

Sounds perfect for managing a kitchen


"Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail"

Sounds perfect for being a chef


http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i...on_elements/Si

[squark]

Ij temperament? how is he energy-conserving? i can definitely see some aspects of LSI in him, but it seems like a huge stretch to label him any Ij type. most of the evidence that i've seen supporting beta ST could apply to any type in the pragmatic club, at least that's what it seems like from my pov. he's the Ej temperament in a nutshell.

Agree. The EJ energy is really apparent.

[Leader]

Estj

[wacey]

Watching 'Master Chef' USA, seeing Ramsay as judge, it is clear to me the majority informational element is logic of actions. Each episode he teaches the logic of actions of how to cook a dish before any given challenge, and the home cooks must master the steps as they remembered and learned them. At which point he judges how closely they paid attention to his steps. Its interesting to note the SEI crash and burn in the face of this. This is Te clear as day. He does this on a continuous basis in every single show he is in.

[darya]

Yeah, LSE makes most sense. Very irrelevant, but my cousin's husband has the same exact face and is definitely LSE.

[Kill4Me]

LSE-Te:

https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/lse-te/

[Kill4Me]

LSE-Te is more than obvious. Ramsay is too quick to show his hand on everything. Ti/Se cognition automatically closes off information loops, so that more and more information is cached within their own network. This is represented externally by a more tight-lipped demeanor and the classic LSI poker face. Ramsay is like a big sloppy dog. he craves attention and loves for nothing more than to share his knowledge....his transparency is kinesthetic and he is always spilling the beans. There's no filter. He has no filter, there is no intermediary between him and the environment that thinks before taking action.

Ti/Se also has a cognition for hierarchy. Although Ramsay does yell at people, he usually ends up forming a strong bond with them. It's out of liking. He's affectionate even towards the people who would be lowest on the food chain. The guy is clearly not hierarchically inclined.

LSI makes for somebody that prefers to be the power behind the throne. Ramsay is poking his chest out in front of everybody and saying, "look, I'm in charge." He's comfortable being the head honcho. LSIs don't have that kind of bravado. Ti keeps them bunkered down in their own little fort. They are typically among the types most critical of bravado.

You would have to really not know what you're doing with LSI to think that Gordon Ramsay is an LSI. SLE is a far better mistyping. I mean, LSI is just terrible. It's like a steak that never splits up into smaller pieces no matter how much you chew it. It's almost as terrible as typing Jung IEI (the ultimate worst typing in the history of socionics).

3w2 so/sp looks right. His core feature is arrogance, which in so/sp 3w2 is projected out into the social space more brazenly (like Muhammad Ali) than it is with sp/so 3w2. This fits with the cocky, self-confident and self-promoting character type of enneagram 3. He's also super competitive. Although LSE is a conscientious type, Ramsay is much too comfortable with being bad for a 1w2. He's a chef badass. He doesn't have a stick up his ass like Dr. Phil does.

[Kill4Me]

Here's also a clip of Ramsey with a SLE-Ti restaurant owner named Peter. You see as it escalates, the SLE won't back down and has a territorial response. Ramsey's machismo turns out to be more compensatory posturing (Te/Si doesn't get ugly until everything is lost and isn't really territorial; "hey we're trying to run a show here, get lost" compared to "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO COME IN HERE"):



Ramsey has no itch for the jugular. The LSE battle of oneupsmanship lacks a willingness to play the brutal power card in order to prevail. Trump displayed that itch for the jugular many times in the election. He's not going to be the adult in the situation. In this clip from Hoffa, Hoffa is a SLE. The only difference between SLE/LSE in this scene is at the end when Hoffa goes straight for Kennedy's jugular and says "And fuck your brother!". That's when it goes beyond Te/Si posturing. SLEs are constantly scratching their itch for the jugular in such conflicts even if it means permanently closing a door...and it doesn't matter who against. LSEs (unless all is lost) typically leave an open door. Thus, they don't display that itch for the jugular, unless, as I said they have hit rock bottom.

[Chae]

He easily succumbs to an SEE-Se here:



She is more upbeat than him ( demo), anti-measurement ( PoLR), and blatantly states she will tell him what to do and bosses him around. If Gordon was SLE this would've been a battle

[domr]

He easily succumbs to an SEE-Se here:



She is more upbeat than him ( demo), anti-measurement ( PoLR), and blatantly states she will tell him what to do and bosses him around. If Gordon was SLE this would've been a battle

He's a gentleman / chivalrous.

1:40-1:50

"I'm mentally writing this down in my mind."
"How much oil."
"Give me a time."

You can tell he is unhappy with her unstructured approach to cooking @0:53 when he rolls his eyes.

Ti valuing looking for the recipe.

[at sirac son of sirac]

He's a gentleman / chivalrous.

1:40-1:50

"I'm mentally writing this down in my mind."
"How much oil."
"Give me a time."

You can tell he is unhappy with her unstructured approach to cooking @0:53 when he rolls his eyes.

Ti valuing looking for the recipe.

He seems like gentleman to you as EIE because he is giving Ti instructions whilst being thug micro - controlling LSI aggressor.

[Chae]

He's a gentleman / chivalrous.

1:40-1:50

"I'm mentally writing this down in my mind."
"How much oil."
"Give me a time."

You can tell he is unhappy with her unstructured approach to cooking @0:53 when he rolls his eyes.

Ti valuing looking for the recipe.

Not a gentleman, see 1:36, 2:36! True, at least Ti value is coming out there?

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Gordon might be LSE and his daughter SEI

someone in the comments correctly points out that he handles the interview really well and lets his daughter be in the spotlight. Could be strong and unconscious Fe.



^his middle daughter might be delta NF

[perpetuus]

ESTp

8w7?

[Kill4Me]

Ramsay is clearly LSE.

Watch his shows...his cognition revolves entirely around external order/functionality (Te-dom). LSIs have paranoia around data/facts that aren't known, so if Ramsay were LSI his solutions would perpetually involve looking for and identifying problems that go into the deeper "undercurrents of dysfunction" and "poor information flow," rather than obvious, common sense stuff. He wouldn't get all excited and worked up say when he sees the rotten food in the fridge. Rather, it's the unknowns LSIs are looking for so the rotten food becomes a piece of data in their investigation, to sit back and assess. LSIs especially aren't quick to run a victory lap when they spot an obvious flaw but get more interested in the specifics of the actual problems they encounter and ask more questions about it. As they say, the LSI takes each bit of data in with a "puff of the pipe". Only in moments of extreme stress do you see them explode outwardly. Ramsay's problem-solving strengths occur in identifying hazards in the areas of behavior, timing, work, pace, action..."You're supposed to be doing this" "this needs to be coming out faster" "this food is rotten." He doesn't bring anything theoretical or specialized to the table. Ramsay has a cognition for problems distinctly "above ground" -- mostly just obvious, practical stuff that the others are too impractical or undisciplined to spot or care about.

That practicality ties into his Ti-ignoring because it gives him a general criteria by which any restaurant can improve its performance. Because he has a general criteria, he can move fast upon entering a new restaurant and make quick decisions. Ti-ignoring means that he doesn't have to get bogged down in collecting data about the restaurants he's improving (it would be a boring show in terms of placating the short-attention spans consumers have). He doesn't need Ti because Te-lead values common sense. Good old fashioned common sense trumps a more scientific approach for Te cognition such as Ramsay's.

It's clear that Ramsay's vulnerable function is Ni. That's what makes him so outwardly productive and practical in the external world. Ni is a rich, highly nuanced, detailed inner world that makes the outer world look like a needless distraction (or even somewhat non-existent). The more Ni you have in you, the less competent you will be at real world stuff (though every introvert will have this problem to some extent; Ni to a greater degree annihilates objective reality). This is what makes typings like IEI for Obama so highly amusing but flatly wrong. Obama is highly competent at outer world stuff....as just one example, he was an energizer-bunny star fundraiser for the democratic party just as a freshman senator lol. You will see a Woman president before you see an IEI president. When Ni-doms find a way to bridge their inner world with the outer world, that's where you largely see them coming out of their inner world to interact with the external environment and what they bring is something original and unique. The flip side is that when Ni is in the vulnerable function, this type of existence all gets flipped on its head and what you get is a highly practical, hyper-productive, in-your-face, Type A personality workhorse (i.e. Gordon Ramsay).

He's a posterchild for the classic overbearing LSE type.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Ramsay is clearly LSE.

No. LSEs have creative , not creative .

[Kill4Me]

No. LSEs have creative , not creative .[/COLOR]

No. Se is his demonstrative function.

He has Si-creative in spades.

[Kill4Me]

Also keep in mind that force is not a distinguishing feature between Te-dom and Se-dom. Te-dom imposes order. Te-doms will also yell at people and bully them....If you think that Te-doms are not forceful it's time to go back to the drawing board.

The most obvious thing is that Gordon Ramsay is in no way shape or form an introvert. And here on this thread you have a Te-dom saying point blank that Ramsay is Te-dom and you have an EIE saying that Ramsay is not a dual and an EII saying that Ramsay is a dual.

Just to demonstrate the bandwagon effect, I dredged up the most crazy LSI I could find. Here's a clip of an LSI whackjob that Piers Morgan interviewed, and specifically the clip highlights a situation where you see the LSI angry and still....cool as a cucumber.



LSIs don't show their hand. They stay tight-lipped. Now if that guy doesn't start getting all wound up and excited in that situation no LSI does and that's a far more explosion-inducing provocation than finding old lettuce in the fridge. And you think that guy is the same socionics type as this guy!!!



There's no fckin' way. The difference in cognitive range is worlds apart. Watch the clips. Introvert for Ramsay is a nutty conclusion to draw, never mind LSI.

[FDG]

Gordon Ramsay - ISFJ - Dreiser

Thats not a bad typing

[WVBRY]

I had assumed LSE for him.

Same here.

[Breather]

6w7

[golden]

Not Beta. Very good with Si ... a video I’ve watched of him teaching how to scramble eggs shows the kind of delicate touch (time be damned) he expects all the chefs he hires to employ.

That Kelly Ripa interview a few posts up is a good example of how soft and light his body language is compared to a Beta Se. Beta Se types have a steely, grounded quality, whereas he’s almost fluid. His boyish upbeatness with Ripa also implies that since his shitty behavior is situationally specific, it stems almost entirely from a set of beliefs about the right way to run a kitchen / restaurant.

Now, that can be part of kitchen culture, although it’s increasingly frowned on (so I’m told) and he’s an amazingly over-the-top employer of it. It’s also his entertainment shtick and I don’t know how much of it I’m supposed to take seriously.

Beta Se wil analyze any given situation’s power dynamics and don’t rely on shticks and rules the same way LSEs do. The LSE I was married to had a whole lot of these unwieldy strategies for being in charge and respected. Always wear a tie, always wear a beard, cultivate specific gestures that distract people so they attack you on things that don’t matter. Situate your office so the only entrance has a gatekeeper. Always have hire-fire power. Purge an organization of the people who don’t like you at the outset.

The reason to have all these rules is so you don’t really have to analyze power on the fly. He wasn’t so good at that and didn’t even like the word “power” and would resent it when I used that word to describe how he did in fact consolidate power for himself.

LSI = quieter, stiffer, more subdued and monotone, highly analytical, have Fi role and ime use it extensively in their professional lives. Also ime, when they do lose their shit, they are pretty specific in what they say. Either there’s a very good logical argument with outrage over your illogic, or, if it’s personal, even if they’re kind of out of control they still know exactly how to cut you deep. Ramsay is clumsy at power posturing, which is why it’s entertaining to some people ... it’s about an old-fashioned institutionalized abuse culture in which no one is supposed to take any of it personally.

LSE works.

[khcs]

Gordon Ramsay - ENFJ - Hamlet

[Jarno]

EIE-Ni

[Marep]

LIE

[toska]

Gordon Ramsay, LSI-Se

[QueenTiger666]

SEE-Se

[on a peaceful hiatus]

LSE

[Rusal]

Hello all. My first post here, English is not my first language, so bear with me.

I think it's a lucky case that Ramsay fills his type ans subtype profile so well (it can be seen even in the profession he chose) that it's easy to type him, unlike other people sometimes. From Gulenko:

An aesthete with a taste for gourmet, they love original dishes and beautiful, expensive objects of quality.

The way he speaks:

Briskly conducts conversation and/or jokes.

And watch his movements closely. He seems restless all the time:

movements are gusty, sharp, quick and impulsive; often embody a restless demeanor.

Other signs is the fact that he cares about his employees, which I found puzzling since he treats his inferiors so harshly but it seems that he functions that way: can treat them like trash but ensures that they work under good conditions or that they are paid on time. Reality TV is fake, but it would be draining for someone fake it so much, so my conclusion is that Ramsay really is like what we see but his producers just egg him on so that his shows sell. In an interview his son even described him as a person who "works hard and plays hard", which describes his personality type so well.

So, LSE-Si.

[mightylizard]

LSI-Se. Would not stand a chance again me. I have always sensed that. I think that if he tried pulling any intimidation tactic I would straight up laugh in his face and make a smartass reply. Also, he loves loves loves crushing the dreams of innocent Delta NFs who consider themselves "professional chefs" because they enjoy cooking nice meals on Sunday for their family.

Yes, he is obviously playing a reality tv show character. That said, it is most likely just an exaggeration of himself. I don't think he is nearly as big of an asshole as he plays up on tv.

I think that he is counterflow, and I am leaning towards So/Sp - they like to punish people with words. Enneagram 8, 3, or 1.

[Goth detective]

All I hear in this thread is so much "an LSI wouldnt do this, an LSE would react like this", with no actual deconstruction of how his actions and utterances correspond to information elements. Anybody typing Gordon Ramsay as Te-Si valuing and Ti IGNORING(????) is only fooling themselves.

Obvious LSI. That video of him standing back when an Se lead picks a fight with someone outside the restaurant is pretty clearly Gordon having cautious Creative Se and managing his territory with less bombast than the Se lead.
Open your eyes, please.

[Goth detective]

someone in the comments correctly points out that he handles the interview really well and lets his daughter be in the spotlight. Could be strong and unconscious Fe.

>Strong and unconscious Fe

I disagree entirely with this, but what I'm more in awe at is that you then type him LSE....??????

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

>Strong and unconscious Fe

I disagree entirely with this, but what I'm more in awe at is that you then type him LSE....??????

Hi

I have not studied socionics in depth and i am in awe that you are in awe

Thanks for the quote. I remain at your disposal for any further information that may be needed.

[Goth detective]

Hi

I have not studied socionics in depth and i am in awe that you are in awe

Thanks for the quote. I remain at your disposal for any further information that may be needed.

I will be a torrent of information, like the Niagara falls of knowledge, spilling and splashing with all the wealth of wisdom you could only dream of, darling.

[Lycantrope]

ESI-Se

[Lycantrope]

he is obviously playing a reality tv show character. That said, it is most likely just an exaggeration of himself

agree, check this video of when he was younger and working for Marco Pierre White:

[Rusal]

I watched some stuff and reconsidered-

I think SLE CD/DC might be a better option for him.

The hand at 0:37 and treating people like a ragdoll 1:09

His face when he was younger had a pronounced SLE slant.

I'll have to watch more but he might be a Fe valuer

[Djangr]

LSI