Se polr vs Se seeking

[Fay]

I wonder if this is more Se polr behavior, or Se seeking...


I'm quite short, usually wherever I go I'm the shortest of all, the same for my weight, I'm a thin person so I'm that stereotype of an overall small girl. My physical strenght is basically nonexisting and this often attracts Se ego types. They feel like they should take care of me and help me survive, because I tend to have an overall fragile look. Whenever I try to open something and I don't have enough strenght, or I carry something heavy I usually get a reaction, "Oh you're so cute for trying that hard, let me help you," and they do something that would take me hours in a few seconds.


I really like this kind of help and I even try to maintain a look like that. Probably an extreme example would be the fact that I got into crazy eating habits and restrictions once, because I was obessed with this ideal of a fragile ethereal woman.


The other less pleasent thing about Se types and me however is, that I sometimes feel unappreciated for my abilities among them. They see me as a child they should take care of, but not their equal. I don't have this issue with any other types but them and I find it to be very humiliating. I feel like they try to make me feel inferior, or submissive and I really hate that idea. I'm a very independent and individualistic person and I'm strong in my own way and it really hurts me when I feel like they totally overlook it. I usually treat people as my equals and I want to be treated the same way, but I totally fail with Se egoes at this. We always have this annoying parent/child relationship that really pisses me off. This is probably more likely with gamma SFs than beta STs even though it has happened with both.

[wasp]

that runs contrary to anything written about Se-egos, especially in the context of relationships. that sounds more like some fancy bdsm roleplay to me.

what Ni-leads do isn't equatable to mindless submission. it's purposeful submission. the Se-ego mentality is more like, "swallow my words, taste my thoughts, and if it's too nasty then spit it back at me," which is why Ni-leads work well with Se-egos. it's like the influx of Se from the Se-ego fills the Ni-lead with second-hand Se and their immediate response is to fire back once they've hit their Se tipping point, kind of like they've "maxed out", but first they must simmer. essentially Ni-leads know when to pounce. it's deliberate, calculating, that's the whole point. Ne-egos don't care for it. Ni-leads may not take kindly to it either but Se-egos have what they want, Se, whereas Ne-egos don't want Se. if you find yourself feeling stifled, drained, even resentful after interacting with Se-egos then you're probably Se-PoLR, but if you feel invigorated afterwards, then it's more likely that you're Se-seeking.

just assume that dynamic types are more prone to adjusting than static types.

see: daenerys (IEI) and khal drogo (SLE) or varys (ILI) and everyone else in the kingdom (the kingdom itself relies heavily on power structures = Se). it may seem like daenerys and varys are in a weaker position because of their (perceived) fragility or vulnerability, but they're more like lion tamers, whereas sansa (EII) is constantly getting rekt by joffrey and the power structure (Se) meanwhile margaery (Fe-ego?) knows how to deal with it.

[User Name]

It's kind of strange because I know for sure that my and are 1D, but I still can't figure out which one is the Suggestive and the PoLR. I avoid at all costs. But I don't seem to like behavior so much. Is this possible?

[FDG]

Yeah I know a number of people with the kind of "power-hungry" Se who behave that way. I don't look especially fragile, I believe it's just their attitude with almost everyone. More apparent with beta ST than gamma SF. My approach is to really exploit any chance when they may appear inferior / make a mistake to really focus on their mistake and inability, this evens out the relationship, even though I mostly try to completely avoid interactions with those kind of people.

[Adam Strange]

I wonder if this is more Se polr behavior, or Se seeking...


I'm quite short, usually wherever I go I'm the shortest of all, the same for my weight, I'm a thin person so I'm that stereotype of an overall small girl. My physical strength is basically non-existing and this often attracts Se ego types. They feel like they should take care of me and help me survive, because I tend to have an overall fragile look. Whenever I try to open something and I don't have enough strength, or I carry something heavy I usually get a reaction, "Oh you're so cute for trying that hard, let me help you," and they do something that would take me hours in a few seconds.


I really like this kind of help and I even try to maintain a look like that. Probably an extreme example would be the fact that I got into crazy eating habits and restrictions once, because I was obessed with this ideal of a fragile ethereal woman.


The other less pleasant thing about Se types and me however is, that I sometimes feel unappreciated for my abilities among them. They see me as a child they should take care of, but not their equal. I don't have this issue with any other types but them and I find it to be very humiliating. I feel like they try to make me feel inferior, or submissive and I really hate that idea. I'm a very independent and individualistic person and I'm strong in my own way and it really hurts me when I feel like they totally overlook it. I usually treat people as my equals and I want to be treated the same way, but I totally fail with Se egoes at this. We always have this annoying parent/child relationship that really pisses me off. This is probably more likely with gamma SFs than beta STs even though it has happened with both.

This is actually a problem I have with short women.

In real life, I am driven to dominate and control social situations (probably due to my insecurities, whatever....). This drive is subtle, but it is always there, just below the surface. Put me into any social situation, and I'll gradually rise to a position of power and influence, until I feel that no one there can control me. If I think that the situation also has potential, or if it interests me, I can easily add leadership to the mix, but my main drive is to be in a position where I can't be controlled, and I do that by presenting a strong-willed, driven personality.

This has stark consequences for my choices in romantic partners. I'm essentially a democrat and want us to be equals, but it is very hard for me to find a woman whom I can see as an equal partner. I find that I have to see them as equal in most ways and superior in at least one way in order to neither dismiss them as inconsequential or run over them.

As you said, @Fay, if a woman is small or petite, I have an e8 tendency to want to take care of her, which is not fair to her and not long-term interesting to me. As a result, all the women who have been long term partners with me have been taller than me (and thin, FWIW). It is a quick and easy way for me to attribute to them a superior position, and their slenderness displays their beauty.

The other thing I'm looking for in a partner (aside from Fi, of course), is evident Se. If a woman is strong-willed, if she is into judo or just has a strong body in general, then I assume that she can kick my ass (even tho I weigh 187 lbs and am stronger than most of the guys I know) and she can take care of herself and doesn't need a caregiver, so our interactions can move on to a more equal footing. High-dimension Se alone isn't enough, tho. I also need Fi. The SLI I was married to had both, the LSI didn't.

I'm working with an ESI-Se artist right now who is strong, slender, smart, and two inches taller than me. She is as independent as a cat, which I find very attractive. She also doesn't try to control me, or if she is controlling me, she's doing it in a way that is so subtle that I find it acceptable. She'd be perfect if she were in my age range.

[niffer]

I think that you are sort of answering your own questions here @Fay . If you mostly feel like you're on the edge of feeling unequal, inferior or submissive with gamma SFs consistently, then it's a red flag for being a delta NF (EII) yourself.

The behaviours that you enjoy from others seem to be oriented towards taking care of you i.e. jar opening (i.e. Si ego). If you overall feel that everything else about Se is annoying rather than enchanting, then you are not Se seeking but Se polr. It seems fairly straightforward to me.

[Saoirse]

I don't think Se has much to do with physical strength. I'm an advanced lifter by competitive weightlifting strength standards, and I'm Se PoLR.

I think @niffer raises a good point that the dynamics you describe as Se are actually others taking care of you, which is Si ego or the caretaker romance style.

Se would be more about them pushing you to do something, pushing to get their way somehow.

I feel a strong imbalance with being taken care of by LSEs (but not so much other Si egos for some reason--I guess I just want to be taken care of in a Te way, not an Fe or pure Si way ). Like you, I hate feeling like they don't see me as their equal. I'm not sure what the solution is. It's probable that you actually also take care of them in a way (if you're close), but in a less tangible way, so it's hard to feel equal. LSE-EII duality descriptions in particular suggest that LSEs don't show appreciation even when they feel it, exacerbating the problem--they might think of you as an equal but just be bad at showing it.

You mentioned how you think you feel toward Gamma and Beta Se egos, but how do you think you feel toward Alpha and Delta Si egos?

[Tearsofaclown]

Dany is not IEI. She is a serious type. Fi valuing. Varys is closer to IEI. Dany has more force than IEI.

[Tearsofaclown]

I don't think Se has much to do with physical strength. I'm an advanced lifter by competitive weightlifting strength standards, and I'm Se PoLR.

I think @niffer raises a good point that the dynamics you describe as Se are actually others taking care of you, which is Si ego or the caretaker romance style.

Se would be more about them pushing you to do something, pushing to get their way somehow.

I feel a strong imbalance with being taken care of by LSEs (but not so much other Si egos for some reason--I guess I just want to be taken care of in a Te way, not an Fe or pure Si way ). Like you, I hate feeling like they don't see me as their equal. I'm not sure what the solution is. It's probable that you actually also take care of them in a way (if you're close), but in a less tangible way, so it's hard to feel equal. LSE-EII duality descriptions in particular suggest that LSEs don't show appreciation even when they feel it, exacerbating the problem--they might think of you as an equal but just be bad at showing it.

You mentioned how you think you feel toward Gamma and Beta Se egos, but how do you think you feel toward Alpha and Delta Si egos?

Se polr is scared of force What is force? Heavy machinery. Shit like that. Not trusting your own strength. Just being uncomfortable by forceful action in the environment. Like these guys were drilling into the ground. WTF. I am not comfortable around such forceful things. It is normal to most guys.


I have seen that in descriptions of Se polr too or weak Se. fear of maiming or hurting others. not knowing your own strength. if you dont even know your own strength, how can you know the strength of a huge machine like a bulldozer? This one guy at work told another he was always afraid of hurting himself. He doesnt trust things. That is weak Se.

[Tearsofaclown]

Se seeking realizes the power of action:


Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.The slogan “Press On” has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race.

-Calvin Coolidge

[niffer]

Se seeking realizes the power of action:


Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.The slogan “Press On” has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race.

-Calvin Coolidge

I think all decisive types would be likely to value this mentality, not just Ni leads.

[Tearsofaclown]

I think all decisive types would be likely to value this mentality, not just Ni leads.

Maybe, but I think the idea of putting your head down and breaking your opponent's sternum is more Se-Ni.

That is one way I see Se. Like a running back. Jim Brown. Fucking rolling over people. Give me your best one on one. That kind of stuff.

And why Top Gun is beta. same thing. one on one.

[Bertrand]

yeah I feel like that coolidge quote could easily apply to LSE, Ni/Se tends to value "right time right place" as well, although LSE probably weighs the Se factor as primary so its perfectly appropriate for them

[Tearsofaclown]

yeah I feel like that coolidge quote could easily apply to LSE, Ni/Se tends to value "right time right place" as well

Se is force. Si is more finesse. Jim Brown is Se. Force.

I said before that Se is comfortable in the uncomfortable. Look at Eminem. Sheer will. Force. He put his head down and drove through people too. Si types dont do that.

Mike Tyson -- force

Ali -- force

Connor Mcgregor- speed and precision. Still force.

One finger push ups are Ni. Trying to control the environment with minimal effort.

etc.

Bruce Lee. One inch punch. lol. Trying to control Se with one finger. Using one quick small motion to cave in your chest is Se/Ni. I will flat out say that Si/Ne types lack the will. Nietzsche is the Ni dom archetype for a reason. No Si user talks like him. lol.

[Bertrand]

yeah but time is separate from finesse... finesse is precision in space (Si). granted, "wasted time" is more of a Te Ni concept, but Se still considers timing a thing (because speed is a function of force over time). so since speed is a factor, throwing yourself at something long term may not be a Se thing per se, since it seems like they would be more about overcoming barriers via leveraging high force over low time (what we would call "violence of action" in the military), not necessarily persistent force over time (although that could be a thing too, to me pure sustainable endurance is more Si too)

[Tearsofaclown]

yeah but time is separate from finesse... finesse is precision in space (Si). granted, "wasted time" is more of a Te Ni concept, but Se still considers timing a thing (because speed is a function of force over time). so since speed is a factor, throwing yourself at something long term may not be a Se thing per se, since it seems like they would be more about overcoming barriers via levering high force over low time (what we would call "violence of action" in the military"), not necessarily persistent force over time (although that could be a thing too, to me pure endurance is more Si)

lol... I really dislike weak Ti and Ni for this very reason.

You know what precision in space is? The right TIME. You just defined Ni as Si. Your definition of time and events is gibberish. Nothing happens without time. Time is always happening. It is never separate from anything.

And you just gave a great example of Si-Ne. A roundabout way of saying what is obvious to anyone with half a brain. You wrote a paragraph and said nothing.

[Bertrand]

if precision in space is time (Ni) what is precision in time? you're the one defining Si as Ni

[niffer]

Maybe, but I think the idea of putting your head down and breaking your opponent's sternum is more Se-Ni.

Decisive is Se-Ni.

[Fay]

I don't think Se has much to do with physical strength. I'm an advanced lifter by competitive weightlifting strength standards, and I'm Se PoLR.

I think @niffer raises a good point that the dynamics you describe as Se are actually others taking care of you, which is Si ego or the caretaker romance style.

Se would be more about them pushing you to do something, pushing to get their way somehow.

I feel a strong imbalance with being taken care of by LSEs (but not so much other Si egos for some reason--I guess I just want to be taken care of in a Te way, not an Fe or pure Si way ). Like you, I hate feeling like they don't see me as their equal. I'm not sure what the solution is. It's probable that you actually also take care of them in a way (if you're close), but in a less tangible way, so it's hard to feel equal. LSE-EII duality descriptions in particular suggest that LSEs don't show appreciation even when they feel it, exacerbating the problem--they might think of you as an equal but just be bad at showing it.

You mentioned how you think you feel toward Gamma and Beta Se egos, but how do you think you feel toward Alpha and Delta Si egos?

I'm quite sure that most people who feel like they should take care of me are SEEs. I actually have two sided relationship with them, one is that I make them see my own abilities and the fact that I can take care of myself and they step off from being so dominating over me and we can even become good friends, or they don't and we get into conflict sooner or later. SLEs don't do this as much, though they do tend to be attracted to how vulnerable I look like. I simply have an issue with people who try to dominate me or make me feel inferior in some way, my most natural reaction is to resist, because I'm too proud to accept someone being liket this to me.

When it comes to alpha SFs, I can get along fine with SEIs, less with ESEs as I find ESEs to be too pushy when they try to get close to you. SEIs for me are good friends for relaxation and when I just want to have a quiet nice time in a good company, but they are not really people that I would praise too high. I think they're too lazy and their lack of ambition actually pisses me off in most of the cases, but as friends, I just tolerate this.
Unfortunately there is a lack of deltas in my life, but I think I know a few SLIs, who I really like and enjoy their company. I like how comfortable and at ease they can make me feel. That is the thing about Si, they don't really push it or force it over you, it just comes naturally. The other thing about delta STs though is that I usually find it hard to find a common ground with them. They have different interest, different values and like different things so I usually don't really have anything to share with them. When I get to know them it's usually just a friend of a friend and we meet in a group of common friends, but we rarely get too close as there is a lack of a common ground.