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    Hi Deltas & Delta's guests,

    Last week I just changed my typing from ILI to SLI since I think it fits me better, still I don't think I focus on healthy lifestyle as Si-egos are usually described but I guess I am one of a kind

    If you feel like I don't fit here, just tell me and I will kill you all and go back


    P.S. @Adam Strange, I was reviewing my old questionnaire (without reading my own answers, questionnaires are too long you know) when I notice this comment by you

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Reading your questionnaire, I saw about 8 ILI's, 4-5 LII's, and 2 LIE's. I would lean toward ILI, but the calmness.....the calmness......
    Sorry for bringing something so ancient, but I wanted to ask if this calmness (if you still remember) feels like Si-doms? before I thought it could be E9 thing but if I am Si-dom I think it could be because of that so what do you think

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    I hope you will find your type. Its only then that things will start making sense in Socionics.

    "Simo", that sounds Finnish?
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I hope you will find your type. Its only then that things will start making sense in Socionics.

    "Simo", that sounds Finnish?
    Thanks and "Simo" is not a name really and I don't even like it

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    @Simo Either type is cool! Boiiii you can't just enter Delta with a blatant death threat!! If needed, I can put my " or not?" radar to the test What material can I go through? Healthy lifestyle is only one component, as you say each TIM manifestation has its quirks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    @Simo Either type is cool! Boiiii you can't just enter Delta with a blatant death threat!!
    Oh I wouldn't go as far as to make a death threat, it is just a friendly warning
    If needed, I can put my " or not?" radar to the test What material can I go through? Healthy lifestyle is only one component, as you say each TIM manifestation has its quirks.
    Sure put it to the test, but are you sure it is not broken?
    & btw after a week or so I may get busy with other stuff & my access would be limited

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    Oh I wouldn't go as far as to make a death threat, it is just a friendly warning


    Sure put it to the test, but are you sure it is not broken?
    & btw after a week or so I may get busy with other stuff & my access would be limited
    That disqualifies you for SLI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    That disqualifies you for SLI
    So what am I qualified for?

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    Why ILI to SLI? What motivates the change? What made you think you were ILI? And what makes you think you are SLI?

    Not saying that you aren't X because I don't know, and those questionnaires seems no better way to know someone's type than tests. And ppl assessments are sometimes hilarious. I prefer tests.
    Last edited by Kiba; 07-08-2017 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    So what am I qualified for?
    What do you genuinely think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    Why ILI to SLI?
    well I read SLI descriptions and they seems to apply, and I never related to Ni prediction skills. still I admire people who are visionary & have goals to achieve, but I haven't ever described myself as visionary, seeing through time, or having prediction skills.

    What motivates the change?
    reading SLI's descriptions

    And what makes you think you are SLI?
    this would be too long to answer

    Not saying that you aren't X because I don't know, and those questionnaires seems no better way to know someone's type than tests. And ppl assessments are sometimes hilarious. I prefer tests.
    I think people assessments here are way better than in MBTI forums, still sometimes they are hilarious even here.
    personally I don't trust both tests & ppl assessment, I need to be convinced

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    What do you genuinely think?
    Genuinely?!
    I may like to joke a lot in forums as this is not something I do a lot irl, but I don't joke in my self-typing so if I said I think I am SLI then I mean it (still I could be wrong though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    Genuinely?!
    I may like to joke a lot in forums as this is not something I do a lot irl, but I don't joke in my self-typing so if I said I think I am SLI then I mean it (still I could be wrong though)
    My my. No, you misunderstood - it's about the reasons! On top of those you gave in the OP. You said to @Slugabed it's too long to elaborate but we're still curious (you already distinguished yourself from but how does fit, and not another base function?). That is the very nature of your hypothetical dual if you're indeed SLI

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    You kidding? Most in here are horrendously biased and the messy that socionics theory is, doesn't help ppl to improve their typing skills. Plus, most ppl in mbti use tests for self typing. The only difference that I see between mbti forums and here (besides theory) is that ppl in there have a lot of generalized ridiculous stereotypes and ppl in here have stereotypes that they (themselves) constructed according their own biased understanding and aleatory observations, not theory itself or even descriptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    My my. No, you misunderstood - it's about the reasons! On top of those you gave in the OP. You said to @Slugabed it's too long to elaborate but we're still curious (you already distinguished yourself from but how does fit, and not another base function?). That is the very nature of your hypothetical dual if you're indeed SLI
    ok the short answer is that I read the SLI description last week & felt I relate to them.

    the long answer is I read it to type someone I know irl, and this person & I have what I think is business relationship, and her relation with her supervisor (who I type as LIE) is very positive, whereas I who was at the time self-typed as ILI have a not so great relationship (I still think he is the best supervisor in the division being very productive & always has a plan working hard toward achieving by delegating though, so he is kind of the stereotypical CEO personality in short and I will how he is working for a clear vision than most supervisors who work for getting good KPI scores only) so I thought if I am ILI then my business partner is SLI but that would be LIE supervisor but there relations seems too good for supervision relationship, so I thought what if I flipped our types me becoming SLI & her being ILI, then that would make more sense so I read SLI description and I can relate to them pretty much.
    of course this makes me the supervisor of the LIE guy but not sure if he feel being supervised by me, the only thing that could hurt his Si-PoLR is when I tell him from time to time that he should learn to relax since he works even in the lunch break & respond to work emails even after working hours, still I don't think this would bother him.

    Also there is my father who I think is ESE, I would describe may relationship with him as supervision rather than conflict since it is link one-side battle him supervising me on how to behave with others & what to say or do while with others, I actually wrote my comment regarding ESE-SLI relationship based on my relationship with my father than me really understanding type-dynamics, here is what I wrote there:

    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    From my experience here are few problems ESE-SLI relations may have.


    Major Problems:


    1. Fe Lectures: ESE tends to tell SLI how to behave with people (what to say or do), which is coming from good intention to help but it just get under SLI's skin and make them see ESE as controlling, so don't lecture them


    2. Fe Drama: when SLI make a mistake they feel bad & is trying to fix it, so the last thing they want to hear is how you feel about their mistake or worse how they should feel, so if they make a mistake either help them fix without the drama or take the attention away from them if it was in a social setting or there are many people around


    3. Fi-Ignoring: ESE seems as if they don't understand why SLI would prioritize Fi over Fe, specially when SLI express an Fi value/interest, then ESE say something like you should do this[Fe-thing that contradict with the Fi value], this feels like a rejection of them or that their values/interests are secondary to what the group values, so if SLI express Fi value acknowledge it even if you don't agree or think they don't know what's good for them just respect they have their own values/interests & don't push yours on them


    4. Always in a hurry: seriously why? I know it is because of Ni PoLR but SLI don't like to be hurried unless there is a reason


    Minor Problems:


    1. ESE tends to like bright colors whereas SLI darker colors (not sure if color preference is type related), this isn't really a problem if ESE don't enforce their preference on SLI or criticize SLI's taste


    2. Even if SLI don't seem to be doing anything doesn't mean you can make plans for them without discussing it with them first, SLI don't like it when others expect them to just tag along without considering their opinion


    3. SLI make his home comfortable for himself whereas ESE make his home comfortable for his guests, so if living together & don't agree on what is comfortable they may have some arguments but I think It can be resolve easily since SLI focus on his own room whereas focus on the living room


    Those are just my observations, and are based on the assumption that I typed ESE & SLI correctly
    so this is a short summary of the thought process, what do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    You kidding? Most in here are horrendously biased and the messy that socionics theory is, doesn't help ppl to improve their typing skills. Plus, most ppl in mbti use tests for self typing. The only difference that I see between mbti forums and here (besides theory) is that ppl in there have a lot of generalized ridiculous stereotypes and ppl in here have stereotypes that they (themselves) constructed according their own biased understanding and aleatory observations, not theory itself or even descriptions.
    well I don't think stereotypes will ever disappear because of how people learn things. you see people learn by association so when you teach a kid about shapes for example and want him to know what a sphere is you simply show him objects that are sphere shaped e.g. balls, pearls and so on then if you asked him about the shape of moon for example he will know it is sphere

    this sounds so basic but it is easy for things that can be observed & associated objectively, but when it comes to personalities the only reference people generally have is stereotypes so they associate each type with one or more stereotypes to understand what that type is

    MBTI have generalized stereotypes because their descriptions are very general and not so deep

    whereas socionics have a better and much deeper descriptions but it is written in a very abstract way removed from real life examples maybe to avoid stereotypes or they think it makes it more accurate idk, however since it is very abstract people only get the skeleton of the type without the flesh & skin so it will be unclear & confusing so to understand those abstract explanations people link them to their behaviors or the behaviors of others they know so basically they are giving the skeleton new flesh & skin but each one have different experiences so the finished product will be different for each person giving us what you called stereotypes constructed by the person based on his biased understanding not the theory

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    meme hotline Chae's Avatar
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    @Simo I'm critical. Why? Typing yourself through the types of other people misleads. They could be mistyped as you said, and also, it doesn't get to your core use of the elements. We wanna know stuff about JUST you alright What I aimed for came out in the LIE-SLI and home bit but that's not enough.

    Prioritize yourself there, only good courage, relationships don't matter for once. What you'd need to do as well is broadening your horizon to other possible types, contrasting the SLI description you've read with others that you may also identify with but missed due to zooming in.

    For instance, I got a tiny gut feeling that you could even be ESI-Se due to this very method and also good S-skills as we saw in the Delta interiors thread And the I indicated I am suspicious of, with the "better than yours" or "will kill you all". So, that may be an alternative. Time to send in @Adam Strange to use his razor-sharp Or @Zero for an idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    @Simo I'm critical. Why? Typing yourself through the types of other people misleads. They could be mistyped as you said, and also, it doesn't get to your core use of the elements. We wanna know stuff about JUST you alright What I aimed for came out in the LIE-SLI and home bit but that's not enough.

    Prioritize yourself there, only good courage, relationships don't matter for once. What you'd need to do as well is broadening your horizon to other possible types, contrasting the SLI description you've read with others that you may also identify with but missed due to zooming in.
    well I started by typing my colleague not myself, and since I don't know her enough I typed her through ITRs but it didn't make much sense, so I played with the assumption that I am an ILI to see if it will make sense & it did, so to confirm that I read the SLI descriptions
    For instance, I got a tiny gut feeling that you could even be ESI-Se due to this very method and also good S-skills as we saw in the Delta interiors thread And the I indicated I am suspicious of, with the "better than yours" or "will kill you all". So, that may be an alternative. Time to send in @Adam Strange to use his razor-sharp Or @Zero for an idea.
    I didn't read ESI-Se descriptions but I can eliminate that possibility by the fact that I don't think my Ti is that weak, also I don't relate to the aggressor style of Se-egos, also I am pretty sure that I got the LIE typing right if so and I am an ESI as you say is possible then duality sucks
    As for the "better than yours" or "will kill you all" this is something I would only say irl to people who is close to me & I know they won't take it as arrogance or threat since it is just to get a reaction, but in forums I don't care that much, the best one to ever react to this is @Aylen I just like how she respond (not even people I know irl can keep up with her) so she is my favorite & the only one I care not to hurt
    @Aylen this is not just a compliment, it is an invitation to hear your opinion

    Edit: @Chae about delta interiors thread, I actually googled few islamic style interiors but chrome crushed and I didn't feel like opening the history to get them
    Last edited by Simo; 07-08-2017 at 06:19 PM.

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    Well I think that theory and experience (practical knowledge) should be related. The problem is not just ppl typing others according their own experiences (and their aleatory observations), but typing others according their own biased understanding of theory, not theory itself.


    I mean, one thing is what a text says, other different is what someone understand and learn about it. One can simply misunderstand completely a text.

    Also, reading and understanding properly something doesn't qualify him/her to make an assessment of someone they don't know (at all), that's why tests exists and why there are schools about psychology and socionics (in this case), each one with their own methodology.


    So we have a lot of variables in here that basically turns ppl self typing and typing of each other in deception.
    Strangers (who doesn't hear or see each other) guessing the type of the other.

    Not better than a guess who game.
    Last edited by Kiba; 07-08-2017 at 10:26 PM.

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    that's exactly why I feel like I can't really type anyone (myself included) and I'm mainly guessing... even identifying a single reinin dichotomy is tough

    I also feel like interpersonal interludes can take on the character of a myriad of sub personalities, along with more persistent social masks, which further complicate things

    "I contradict myself? very well; I contradict myself-- I am multitudes"

    a lot of times the usefulness, the result, is in the discussion itself, not a conclusion reached in that moment, but an interesting data point or interaction that will come together later, when everything else is in place too--but one must lay that groundwork somehow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    Well I think that theory and experience (practical knowledge) should be related. The problem is not just ppl typing others according their own experiences (and their aleatory observations), but typing others according their own biased understanding of theory, not theory itself.
    this is pretty close to my own perception of socionics. i'm obviously a huge fan of the theory but i realize that it can only explain so much and there's no guarantee that we're all gonna come out with the same interpretation of text that's been (mostly) machine translated from a slavic language to english. it can be annoying to read "[x type] vs [y type] differences" threads where most people just fall back on c&ping direct quotes from socionics descriptions, instead of applying their own knowledge/understanding of the theory (no matter how "incorrect" it may be, as long as we're building upon it in some way, rather than just regurgitating what the rest of us more or less already know), but i concede that it's equally annoying when they try to pass off their own typings of individual people as undeniably correct and then proceed to project that prejudice onto all representatives of that type. the reverse happens, too, where they'll assign a "good" or "bad" type to someone based solely on the flimsy grounds of their own personal attitude toward that particular person, which can pack just as much of a punch as a racial slur, if timed correctly, but apparently it's a point of pride for some. it happens everywhere.

    i'm a fan of the theory because i've seen quite a few of these patterns play out in the real world so it helps me solidify those observations while providing me with tangible expressions for said observations. now i have an arsenal of words and phrases to describe a phenomenon that i've always been vaguely aware of, without relying too heavily on the theory itself. "psychological distance" is one word that frequently pops up in my vocabulary nowadays. it was just so confusing when i was being typed on my "type me" thread and the crux of the typings i got revolved around weird, "we get along, so you're this type" or, "oh, you do that very specific thing? you must be this type" reasoning, and you can feel their attitude toward you shift as you're typed x, y, z, as if you, yourself, have somehow changed along with your 3-letter type code. maybe it's because i do a lot of self-analysis so it can be irritating when i feel like all of that has been invalidated because i said/did one thing and now that one thing defines me, or anyone, for that matter, and i remember finding it so strange when i first read the type description for esi and i thought to myself, "this kind of person sounds great?" but then i came here and saw all the hate directed that way and i wondered to myself how it was that anyone could despise a person who quite literally wants to make the world a better place by diminishing "evil". granted i scored eii on the socionics test, but even after reading the other type descriptions and comparing/contrasting those with the group-perception on here, and elsewhere, it felt off. also it's interesting to note that i posted the same questionnaire i posted on here, on other platforms, and every group typed me differently, but then again my vague style of writing has always allowed a lot of room for projection and the like.

    btw don't worry about responding to this post if you're not feeling it, also sorry OP for temporarily hi-jacking your thread for my own purpose, sometimes i just get inspired by things i read and run off on my own little tangents until my fingers are like "for the love of god please stop nobody cares"

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    For the first few years into MBTI/Socionics, it was very difficult for me to determine if I were S or N oriented and I have known many N-types who have had the same difficulty. Not nearly as many S-types seem get into this conundrum. I attribute this to having had to survive in a S-world that is ruled by accountants and contract lawyers. N-types are better suited to management, overseer or system-level jobs though not necessarily better than S, but in order to get there, they usually have to show proficiency at S-type jobs. This can marginalize many N-types who are inept at physically- and or factually-based work, and are not top-shelf academics. I'm one of the successful ones but I now know that I'm habituated on qualitative data that is quantifiable due to the jobs and socializing that I've had to do over my lifetime - I've been wearing S-clothing for so long that it now feels comfortable but I'm far from being LSI.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 07-09-2017 at 12:46 PM.

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    @Rebelondeck actually according my experience, N types have much more problems with self typing and I think it's due the main nature of Intuition: the consideration of possibilities. I think its easier for a sensorial type to know their type because S tend to be practical and oriented to take charge/solve things and base results on observable evidence more than possibilities and tangents.
    On the other hand, I think that we all have the kind of problem of feeling that we live or we've been pushed into S/N worlds... In my case I think that all the educational system it's basically Nj, and it was a hell for me since Sp was forced to spend 18 years getting knowledge from an unnatural way (sit and listen for hours looking at a board acquiring abstract theoretical knowledge instead of practical/sensorial one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    .........main nature of Intuition: the consideration of possibilities.......
    ....I think that all the educational system it's basically Nj..............
    I do not think N-types consider possibilities any more than S; they just consider possibilities from two different angles - usually top down versus bottom up. I think the elementary/high school and trade school systems are run by mostly Sjs who have been trained by the N-types that dominate the university systems. I think that Sp-types are disadvantaged in most schools because they tend to be tactile or visual learners where schools tend to be verbal/written because it's easier for the teachers.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @Slugabed @paranoid

    I totally agree with you, but those you see as having biased understanding actually think they understand the theory and since there is no singular authority to determine whose understanding is correct, it is basically useless to argue with them. that being said I don't claim to be perfect so maybe I see them as biased but it may actually be me who is biased (unless the other guy is making an obviously stupid claim, then he is just stupid)

    Also, about the having proper understanding doesn't qualify a person to type a stranger:
    that is true but some people want to help, others do as a defensive mechanism e.g. you type as their conflictor but but you both get along so either they change you or face the harsh truth of being biased all that time about their self-typing which is something most people avoid

    Quote Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
    btw don't worry about responding to this post if you're not feeling it, also sorry OP for temporarily hi-jacking your thread for my own purpose, sometimes i just get inspired by things i read and run off on my own little tangents until my fingers are like "for the love of god please stop nobody cares"
    don't worry about it, I very much liked what you wrote, and I do hi-jack others' threads (and mine as well) actually if you see me and my brother talk you would be shocked how we move from topic A to topic Z then ask ourselves "why are we talking about this again? oh I was trying to make that point but I had first to explain that other thing which lead me to that and bla bla bla"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    For the first few years into MBTI/Socionics, it was very difficult for me to determine if I were S or N oriented and I have known many N-types who have had the same difficulty. Not nearly as many S-types seem get into this conundrum. I attribute this to having had to survive in a S-world that is ruled by accountants and contract lawyers. N-types are better suited to management, overseer or system-level jobs though not necessarily better than S, but in order to get there, they usually have to show proficiency at S-type jobs. This can marginalize many N-types who are inept at physically- and or factually-based work, and are not top-shelf academics. I'm one of the successful ones but I now know that I'm habituated on qualitative data that is quantifiable due to the jobs and socializing that I've had to do over my lifetime - I've been wearing S-clothing for so long that it now feels comfortable but I'm far from being LSI.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    when I started learning MBTI I first typed as istp (based on the letters only not cognitive functions) since
    1) I was and is still am very reserved & introverted,
    2) I am not the ideas generation type but rather the type who is good with their hands [In elementary school I was the best at art class where we learn to draw & paint but since the teacher liked my work I got special tasks assigned only to me as glass painting, flower pots coloring, and others. also I was good sewing I even made few dolls for my sisters out of used clothes, finally I loved nature & animals specially cats, I have kidnapped little kittens from their mother but my grandma forced me to return them (I have even brought frogs & small chameleon home & got myself kicked out)]
    3) I have always been the cold-hearted, insensitive, logical person, and the best at math too
    4) as for P well schedules were never meant for me even though I don't like to be late

    after learning about congnitive functions I knew I wasn't an Se type, Si types were health freaks & traditionalist in MBTI so out they go
    I was left with INTP & INTJ the later seemed too scheduled and confident for me, so I settled with INTP not really feeling satisfied


    so socionics comes and I became an ILI < getting tired and trying to finish quickly

    and now here I am claiming to be SLI

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