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Thread: EII-LSE Duality (INFj-ESTj)

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by COOL AND MANLY View Post
    @Pano Lou. I think you are Se valuing as well. You seem to enjoy putting people in their place. You do it excessively too and you take it personally. Like I don't know what happened between you and vesstheastralsilky. But you seem to enter every thread she is in with the purpose of making her feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. That may seem fine to you because no one is speaking of it, or because she isn't one of the cool kids, and I generally think she is old enough to deal with it by herself. But it reflects on you badly. At least from my point of view. I didn't say anything about your ESE typing but it made me chuckle. I would expect my dual to be aware of the things that make me flare up.
    Actually, she is pretty cool. I like her and she's really freaking smart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    My conflict with astralsilky is, if you're curious, she has personally slighted me before. I have tried, in my own capacity, to mend fences with her several times, so yes, she frustrates me. And no, I don't enter "every thread" she makes. What are you even talking about? I don't comment on her threads about people's typings, as they are her subjective view. Anything she has to say about her own quadrant, I don't question because I believe she's typed correctly. I do hold her as an authority on the subject of alphas and even typology in general. I have never questioned that. If you want to get involved in this, you can go look at it yourself but yes, I understand it's petty drama. I don't care if she's one of the "cool kids" or whatever, if you want to view the forum like that.

    I didn't type myself as ESE either. It seems Whatever I type myself as, there's always someone who disagrees lol. I've been around on forums for years and I'm not surprised much by anything people say anymore.

    As for my typing, I VI as LSE, I don't think I'm an ethical type. My ITR's make sense for LSE. I know that EII is my dual, regardless of what Venus Rose may say. I know that ILI is my supervisor, SEI is my supervisee, SLI is my mirror, etc.

    I take on a different persona online than I do IRL and I am a bit of a troll. If you're interested in more "real life" interactions with me, you can look at my type me thread and let me know. There is even a video. I respond to all posts on there.
    I didn't speak of her competency, but I don't feel strongly against it to the point where I question her opinions. I know some people who type me Se-ego. It doesn't matter to me. I'm curious. But I wouldn't actually fight them over it.

    Yeah, I saw your thread but I'm not sure about your type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COOL AND MANLY View Post
    I didn't speak of her competency, but I don't feel strongly against it to the point where I question her opinions. I know some people who type me Se-ego. It doesn't matter to me. I'm curious. But I wouldn't actually fight them over it. It's their perception.

    Yeah, I saw your thread but I'm not sure about your type.
    Well, no it's not her opinions I have a problem with. She's smart and knows her stuff, I won't deny it. But she did put me down personally. Which is what I have a problem with.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    LSEs like the "classical feminine beauty",
    hmm...

    I've seen a lot of EIIs looking like that, I mean, long hair, cute dress, soft voice...that kind of stuff.
    Well, I am like this. Though I wouldn't say I am like the picture. I have a sadder, melancholic offbeat "4" vibe.

    LSEs also like the typical feminine traits, like cooking, decoration, kindness...
    I am terrible at cooking lol and still haven't learned the patience to do so properly. I absolutely value compassion and sincerity/honesty and would not want to be that close to someone who does not. I do have my own taste in things, and I like being able to express myself that way so perhaps "decoration" can count under that...though I have ideas I am myself a little too unconfident in which one is the right one to pursue.

    the -I like to please others- kind of chick etc.
    I would say I don't like getting into unnecessary confrontations and do sometimes have a hard time saying "no" sometimes to certain people, can be rather shy and timid at times etc. but I don't really see it as "I like to please others" sort of thing.

    LSEs males also like to portray the typical masculine attitudes and to be in charge (take all the decisions, etc).
    Doesn't sound terrible to me if done in the right way, I can be pretty "yielding" but also extremely stubborn about certain things that matter to me. So not all the decisions would go over to my other half...
    At the same time, I don't like the idea of a very traditional and boring dynamic. More than anything though, I tend to focus on SX when it comes to relationships (chemistry, intensity, connection stuff) rather than things people do for someone they care about (SP) or what they look like to others (SO).

    Not all the girls can stand that, enjoy pleasing others or have that kind of look.
    I wouldn't really describe myself as enjoying pleasing others, I think I enjoy pushing against the norm or convention and giving voice to something new, creative, exciting...And I love when others are able to do the same, to be themselves, to be passionate, and to freely talk about what matters to them.

    They also like to feel intellectually superior, so a know it all is not really their option.
    Haha, I think I prefer intellectual equality more than any other option as it pertains to this.

    The typical girl who would admire his intelligence, who would wait for him at home, while cook the dinner and fold his socks. If she has artistic tendencies and read about politics, its a plus.
    Well he would probably admire my intelligence, and I his as well It would go both ways. Cooking dinner and folding socks sounds like a really boring dynamic and tbh I don't pay attention to those things lol chores annoy me. Though I would of course do my fair share...it just sounds boring though the way this dynamic is described. I have artistic tendencies and I would love someone who likes and appreciates that, maybe even has artistic tendencies himself
    I don't care so much about politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I would say I don't like getting into unnecessary confrontations
    While on practice you did it on this forum. You were senselessly rude. And then made strange demands to ban the ones who disagrees with you. You are conflicting by Fi types standards.
    You may do not like this for sure and try to avoid them more than EIEs, for example. But you do conflicts without reasons, what EII are the least to do.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.
    Whoa, who broke your heart?
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    Whoa, who broke your heart?
    No one. Just tired of not hearing the obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    No one. Just tired of not hearing the obvious.
    The whole point of duality is that your dual does know best. If you're unwilling to take them up on that, then duality doesn't even work. LSE likes a partner who takes them up on Te and Si. On the other hand, EII wants someone who would accept their sense of morality and humanitarianism as their own. Quite literally, that is the point of duality. You let your dual have free reign in their zone of influence.

    Moreover, taking care of your partner is something you should do in a relationship regardless of whether it's duality or not.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    "without a will or mind of their own" does not in any way sound like an EII... EII is like, "These are my values and I stick by them or die."
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    The whole point of duality is that your dual does know best. If you're unwilling to take them up on that, then duality doesn't even work. LSE likes a partner who takes them up on Te and Si. On the other hand, EII wants someone who would accept their sense of morality and humanitarianism as their own. Quite literally, that is the point of duality. You let your dual have free reign in their zone of influence.

    Moreover, taking care of your partner is something you should do in a relationship regardless of whether it's duality or not.
    All this results in LSE wanting EII to sit tf back and do wtf they are told or nothing at all because they don't know how to do what they are doing and LSE knows best. This contributes against the independence of an EII which is what some of them probably want for themselves. And as far as ethics and all that, how often does that come up day by day? Does it pay the bills? No? Then it's largely useless and some sentiment you can perhaps engage after your daily duties are done. Que LSE blind condescension and EII held back resentment. I'm not one to judge whether it's a fine arrangement or not, just be honest about what you want.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    "without a will or mind of their own" does not in any way sound like an EII... EII is like, "These are my values and I stick by them or die."
    Whether it's EII they want or not, this largely what they are after, because for someone to take the orders and make them feel as capable as they want 2 these are the requirements, lack of will and mind. Once again it's fine, it's just better to be upfront about those things at least within yourself.

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    @Lord Pixel ethics comes across a lot in relationships. Fi is the ethics of relationships. So whether to hold certain beliefs, accept/reject certain ideas, political beliefs, is all ethics. Not to mention EII is very good at creating and strengthening bonds between people... All valuable skills for an LSE.

    What are you gaining by "exposing" LSEs? No type thinks they're weird, but all types are imbalanced in some way. As for the truth of your statements, I've never dated an LSE so I don't know. I have some very good LSE friends, even DA in this forum, who is a sister to me... None of them come across like that to me.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




  13. #173
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I have strong and consistent ethics and I don’t veer away from them neither for myself nor do I stand when others are confused and need ethical direction. I will often say “that is not good. Do the right thing.” I cannot enforce my ethical outlook as I lack the energy and care to keep pushing the envelope on people and it contradicts my introverted tendency to constric energy. Sometimes Fi creativity types like IEE and SEE can seem way more ethical and relationship building capabilities than myself because their energy flows outward but where they are breath I make up in depth. My relationships are near and dear to me and I am loyal to my core and there’s no wushu washy. That commitment to being a rock in relationships is also a part of my ethics and how I view one “should” be (a rule) in relationships.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    When I think of LSE I think of someone who wants to be with someone they can boss around, and they can have that and probably usually get that. And this has been said many times b4 so it's not new info. But I will say, who in their right mind wants to be bossed around in a relationship? Perhaps someone without a mind, or will, of their own. So let the sugar daddy get with his little bumpkin and the cougar take care of her babyboy, because these are usually the dynamics where both agree to a relationship like that. Wouldn't be surprised if many sugar daddies and mommas where LSE, they are literally paying for a mate to lack a mind and will of their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    When I think of LSE I think of someone who wants to be with someone they can boss around, and they can have that and probably usually get that. And this has been said many times b4 so it's not new info. But I will say, who in their right mind wants to be bossed around in a relationship? Perhaps someone without a mind, or will, of their own. So let the sugar daddy get with his little bumpkin and the cougar take care of her babyboy, because these are usually the dynamics where both agree to a relationship like that. Wouldn't be surprised if many sugar daddies and mommas where LSE, they are literally paying for a mate to lack a mind and will of their own.
    LSE can be bossy and aggressive but I can be stubborn and persistent and do things my way quietly when I know that I am right and when I present the results to an LSE they will say “oh I didn’t think of that” you know Te cannot think of everything
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.
    What you are describing sound nothing like Delta rational duality and whoever you are thinking of is likely not LSE at all. For example, take EII-D with LSE-N. EII would be mostly in charge of making decisions, while LSE is responsible for keeping things in order and taking on household chores. Even LSE-D male might take it upon themselves to wash the dishes after dinner. (Bill Gates for example has claimed to do this.) EII is yielding in communication, but also headstrong and confident in their areas of competence. LSE is also yielding type

    LSE are attracted to intelligent partners who can provide them with new perspectives. They also want someone who will take the lead in setting norms for emotional distance, communication, and relationship status, while communicating these explicitly so LSE knows exactly where they stand. They have no patience for relationship "games" and power plays, and lack subtlety in these areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    When I think of LSE I think of someone who wants to be with someone they can boss around, and they can have that and probably usually get that. And this has been said many times b4 so it's not new info. But I will say, who in their right mind wants to be bossed around in a relationship? Perhaps someone without a mind, or will, of their own. So let the sugar daddy get with his little bumpkin and the cougar take care of her babyboy, because these are usually the dynamics where both agree to a relationship like that. Wouldn't be surprised if many sugar daddies and mommas where LSE, they are literally paying for a mate to lack a mind and will of their own.
    This sounds like you're just taking bad qualities of a person you dislike and projecting that to all LSEs lol. I don't know what your problem is, but this doesn't sound like an LSE at all. Maybe closer to beta ST, having a partner they want to "conquer" but even that isn't as twisted and lacking in passion like that. Also, sugar daddies and mommies can be any type... It's not an actual relationship.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    This sounds like you're just taking bad qualities of a person you dislike and projecting that to all LSEs lol. I don't know what your problem is, but this doesn't sound like an LSE at all. Maybe closer to beta ST, having a partner they want to "conquer" but even that isn't as twisted and lacking in passion like that. Also, sugar daddies and mommies can be any type... It's not an actual relationship.
    I never said these qualities are bad. I don't have an issue with anybody wanting that, all I'm saying is be honest, if that's what LSE wants, which I think it is, then just say it. And of course sugar daddies and mommas can be any time, I'm just willing 2 bet most are LSE. I mean they use money to establish a power dynamic and solve the issue of contention in a relationship. They are paying to be the boss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I never said these qualities are bad. I don't have an issue with anybody wanting that, all I'm saying is be honest, if that's what LSE wants, which I think it is, then just say it. And of course sugar daddies and mommas can be any time, I'm just willing 2 bet most are LSE. I mean they use money to establish a power dynamic and solve the issue of contention in a relationship. They are paying to be the boss.
    My husband didn’t want those things. He wanted someone who was patient, ethical, fun and funny, about family life and traditional roles (a man is the man 60% of the time).
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My husband didn’t want those things. He wanted someone who was patient, ethical, fun and funny, about family life and traditional roles (a man is the man 60% of the time).
    The way I understand, LSE doesn't want power dynamics in a relationship, right? I would assume that would freak out PoLR Se. What are your thoughts on that? I become conscious of that in a relationship and I can't really ignore/avoid that.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    The way I understand, LSE doesn't want power dynamics in a relationship, right? I would assume that would freak out PoLR Se. What are your thoughts on that? I become conscious of that in a relationship and I can't really ignore/avoid that.
    no they don't. We just want a peaceful and creative environment full of love and support for our work and interests - me with cooking and him with his love of fixing motorcycles
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    My husband didn’t want those things. He wanted someone who was patient, ethical, fun and funny, about family life and traditional roles (a man is the man 60% of the time).
    This is a power dynamic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    The way I understand, LSE doesn't want power dynamics in a relationship, right? I would assume that would freak out PoLR Se. What are your thoughts on that? I become conscious of that in a relationship and I can't really ignore/avoid that.
    I don't think anybody can ignore avoid it.

  24. #184
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    Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

    My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

    My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

    On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

    Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

    Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

    But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

    He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

    That’s LSE EII family for you.
    Last edited by Allegra; 01-30-2019 at 06:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

    My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

    My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

    On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

    Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

    Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

    But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

    He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

    That’s LSE EII family for you.
    @Allegra, I agree with you. I have long thought that a healthy LSE-EII duality was the best duality in the Socion, exactly for the reasons you mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

    My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

    My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

    On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

    Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

    Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

    But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

    He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

    That’s LSE EII family for you.
    Gender wise this probably worked out nicely for the the folks you know, but even with EII female and LSE male this isn't like the consistent norm. How this would work out with genders flipped who knows. I'm sure many female LSEs marry LSIs. I'm pretty confident on that one. Especially since Si in the US has been trained to look at handy skills and such to signify whether a man is a man, and most LSI probably are some hard workers and can naturally be handymen, that plus the introversion being different enough to be interesting and the ST commonalities, yea, most LSE women are married to LSI men. Most EII men are probably married to EIE women, since they literally try and take on the task of an EII therapist and trying to fully understand EII.

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Gender wise this probably worked out nicely for the the folks you know, but even with EII female and LSE male this isn't like the consistent norm. How this would work out with genders flipped who knows. I'm sure many female LSEs marry LSIs. I'm pretty confident on that one. Especially since Si in the US has been trained to look at handy skills and such to signify whether a man is a man, and most LSI probably are some hard workers and can naturally be handymen, that plus the introversion being different enough to be interesting and the ST commonalities, yea, most LSE women are married to LSI men. Most EII men are probably married to EIE women, since they literally try and take on the task of an EII therapist and trying to fully understand EII.
    I wouldn’t be surprised you are absolutely right. My grandparents are an example of such a union and their marriage was not a pleasant one when they were younger, but for NTR reasons they didn’t separate or divorce. Over the years they mellowed and are now living together like a couple of old friends, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing all things considered. The other female LSEs I know are also married to IxTx types such as LII or SLI, assuming I typed them all correctly.

    I do know one unmistakable male EII female ESE couple and they are doing quite well, married for over 10 years with children.

  28. #188
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

    My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

    My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

    On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

    Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

    Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

    But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

    He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

    That’s LSE EII family for you.
    that's my husband and I. i would love to get to know another EII, would you ask your sister if she's willing to have a friend?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  29. #189
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Jumping in a little late here, but as an EII with experience with several LSEs in various types of relationships (spouse, child, friend), I don’t think it’s a LSE characteristic to want subservients. It can come across like that sometimes, I suppose. They want things to work well (particularly as they view it working well) and often the path to functionality requires other people’s actions. They don’t always have the most intuitively feelings-aware approach. Therefore, when they try to get other people to do what (they see as) needs to be done, it can come across as bossy.

    None of the ones I have known have intrinsically wanted to control someone for the sake of the control. That doesn’t mean I don’t think an LSE could ever be like that; but in that case I’d say it’s more a matter of health and something else going on in them apart from type.

    As a matter of fact, I personally have issues with feeling controlled and can overreact to that feeling. So I require someone who is sensitive to that and who will be assertive with their wants without pushing me over or around. Some of that comes from my childhood experiences, so I wouldn’t say I’m necessarily typical of EIIs in that regard, fwiw. But the man I married, who I type as LSE, has handled that well overall so far.

    He has repeatedly told me he wants a partner in life and that he greatly values my mind and ideas and opinions. Right after we got married I had a lot of work and he was in a slow period so he did a lot of the organizing and housework. If anything, he was my sugarbaby, lol. Now it’s evened out a bit (though for the foreseeable future I’ll be in charge of meal planning), but throughout it all I have never felt like a servant or pet.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    This is a power dynamic.
    He sees it as more roles which are traditional
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  31. #191
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babooshka View Post
    Childlike types need to be spanked sometimes too.


    It’s not childlike so much as low energy, inability to relax, fragile and sensitive looking, whistful and whimsical
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  32. #192
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    I don't know about other LSE women, but I certainly couldn't see myself with an LSI. SLI perhaps, but not LSI. There's not that much in common.

    But from what I've seen, there are more male EIIs than female LSEs. So if LSE women aren't marrying the EII men, what are the EII men doing?

    Well, I know one who was interested in me ended up with a likely-IEI for a while. And a likely-EII married an LII. And an EII I know is with an SEI girl. And I know of a likely-EII who's with a likely-SEE. Then some are old and single.

    Hm. I wonder whether it has something to do with EII men wanting to go fast and LSE women wanting to go slow.

    LSE
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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I don't know about other LSE women, but I certainly couldn't see myself with an LSI. SLI perhaps, but not LSI. There's not that much in common.

    But from what I've seen, there are more male EIIs than female LSEs. So if LSE women aren't marrying the EII men, what are the EII men doing?

    Well, I know one who was interested in me ended up with a likely-IEI for a while. And a likely-EII married an LII. And an EII I know is with an SEI girl. And I know of a likely-EII who's with a likely-SEE. Then some are old and single.

    Hm. I wonder whether it has something to do with EII men wanting to go fast and LSE women wanting to go slow.
    @Director Abbie, don't marry an SLI, either. My LSE mother did, and while they are still married, my SLI father said the sex stopped after six or seven years. Plus, they have nothing to say to each other. It's a miracle that they stuck with each other. But it's not a particularly good miracle.

    Remember, "Duality or GTFO".

    Also, my LSE sister married a male IEI. I guess that, since she has a more "male" personality, she was looking for a guy who was a bit softer. Their marriage is a disaster. I'm not sure they even like each other. They also are still married, but not because the IEI is faithful. It's because my sister pours a LOT of money into the relationship. (I wish she could meet an EII.) If she stopped supporting him and buying him toys, he'd be out of there like a bullet leaves a gun.

  34. #194
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    [...] and LSE women wanting to go slow.
    Why do you want to go slow? And is this something you envision could ever change or adjust? I'm not questioning the validity of that desire, just curious about your reasoning and how your brain and motivations work.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()



    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

  35. #195
    a two horned unicorn renegade Nihilist 007's Avatar
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    There are some claims that contrary types can quite well hang around together without a third party. They can usually follow each others thinking at least better than their respective mirrors. The problem is of course rest of the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    There are some claims that contrary types can quite well hang around together without a third party. They can usually follow each others thinking at least better than their respective mirrors. The problem is of course rest of the world.
    @Troll Nr 007, this is exactly the problem with my parents (Mirrors). They get along tolerably well with each other when it is just the two of them, but the introduction of a third party to the couple exposes their differences and probably makes them feel like their partner isn't as "on board" as they should be. That third party could be friends, acquaintances, or children.
    Can you guess how many friends my parents have? Can you guess how much time they spent with their children?

    When I visit them, it is like watching two lifers in a jail cell.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Why do you want to go slow? And is this something you envision could ever change or adjust? I'm not questioning the validity of that desire, just curious about your reasoning and how your brain and motivations work.
    I think I read somewhere that NFs liked to move fast and STs liked to move slow.
    But I've also gotten the impression that men generally move faster than women.
    If both are true, the male NF would move a lot faster than the female ST.

    Personally, I think I would be a poor example in this area for NTR reasons, so other examples would be welcome to either support or refute the theory.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  38. #198
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I think I read somewhere that NFs liked to move fast and STs liked to move slow.
    But I've also gotten the impression that men generally move faster than women.
    If both are true, the male NF would move a lot faster than the female ST.

    Personally, I think I would be a poor example in this area for NTR reasons, so other examples would be welcome to either support or refute the theory.
    Oh, the theory is fine, and we can explore that, sure. At the moment I am more curious about you personally, including NTR things. If that's too private for this public forum then that's ok.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()



    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

    "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." - Francis Thompson

  39. #199
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    EII dont care about being emotionally pleasant. Thats Fe, making people happy. Fi only cares about own feelings
    This 100000000%

    That’s because EII are sure of their correctness and rightness because they lead with strong ethics and will get their “society” to recognize ethics despite group think. I do have strong feelings of love and compassion for people despite being and coming off as a know it all and stubborn and conceited. I am one of the most accepting and inviting individuals I know. Funny how that works
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  40. #200
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    The subjective/objective of the white/black functions.
    is others' ethics/feelings, is own ethics/feelings.
    is others' thoughts/logic, is own thoughts/logic.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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