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Thread: Social Issues Don't Exist

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    Default Social Issues Don't Exist

    I've determined that social issues don't exist. Black Americans owned black slaves, and there were Jews in the Nazi party. People just start believing in social issues because they don't want to have to feel guilty for being selfish, and people after that latch onto the idea of social issues because it sounds like a nice, clean explanation and it's a widely supported, unquestioned idea like various religions used to be. But it isn't an explanation at all. The world is very small. All issues are personal. "Social issues" is a waste of energy tilting at windmills.

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    Well, I wouldn't go as far to say that social issues don't exist, but rather that social issues are exaggerated and made to appear worse than they really are when you compare present day social issues to past social issues. The truth is blacks were severely oppressed up until the 1960s in the US and the Jews were oppressed by German Nazis back in WWII. It's also evident that in the Western world, women had significantly less rights 100 years ago than they do today.

    However, there's a problem when you try to apply notable social issues from the past to today and pretend they're just as bad now or close to as bad where significant progress has been made. Sure, perfect equality does not exist today in the modern age and work still needs to be done to reach true equality, but we're slowly progressing to egalitarianism so to say that we're far away from equality nowadays is just being disingenuous and/or exacerbating the social issues of today IMO.
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    Sounds like an so last point of view.


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    I'm so-last and I strongly disagree. I've been trying for a long time to formulate the language for why I disagree - why I believe in sociology, basically - and I still haven't been able to do it, so I don't want to reply, except to comment on the instincts thing. Nobody's ever disputed sp/sx for me.

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    It just seems as clear to me as my hand in front of my face that I wear jeans and not hijab, speak a certain English vernacular and not Spanish, and spend my days in a cubicle instead of in a mine because of the time and place in which I was born and my socioeconomic status. How does this not apply to everything, including the ideas I have about race, for example? It doesn't necessarily follow that all identity politics is 100% legitimate. But the idea that everything is about the individual and there is no society strikes me as so patently absurd that I don't know how to address it.

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    To very broadly say "social issues don't exist" sort of undermines the real reasons for why many social issues are made up victim ploys... namely that identity politics is intentionally promoted by the far left as part of a Marxist political ideology, and the idea that your oppressed status is the explanation for your failures is empowering and requires no effort. But if you were a Jew living in Austria during the Nazi occupation I really doubt you'd be saying "social issues don't exist"... that being said they're not a big problem currently, usually very greatly exaggerated and misrepresented, and we have far bigger problems.
    Last edited by rat200Turbo; 06-18-2017 at 09:42 PM.

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    I mainly chalk up my shitty station in life to my bad genetics/pedrigree. intelligent industrious people, regardless of race, tend to do fine financially
    Last edited by suedehead; 06-19-2017 at 12:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    I mainly chalk up my shitty station in life to my bad genetics/pedrigree. intelligent industrious people, regardless of race, tend to do fine financially
    Right.

    I'm pretty sure that if you changed only one thing about me, that being the color of my skin, my outcomes would be significantly different.

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    @Wyrd

    I had a discussion the other day about how all the drama and shit you see on the news and media is not something people really see in their lives. The new finds the most racist and worst things to report on and then people think these things are commonplace when it's a rarity.

    And it's really annoying. The media controls what people focus on and how they think about society. It's pretty obnoxious and sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Right.

    I'm pretty sure that if you changed only one thing about me, that being the color of my skin, my outcomes would be significantly different.
    nope, because you'd still have the same intelligence-level, temperament, etc.
    Last edited by suedehead; 06-19-2017 at 01:29 AM.

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    They do exist. People were talking about skin color in previous posts. If I grew up in a black inner city neighborhood, I could be just like those guys. That environment produces people like that. It's not a race thing, anybody raised in that area is susceptible to it. Black culture needs to be addressed. It is a toxic environment. There were no guns or gangs where I grew up.

    Those outliers still don't change the fact that there was systematic terror against Jews in Nazi Germany.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    nope, because you'd still have the same intelligence-level, temperament, etc.
    Intelligence and temperament matter, but not as much as race.

    Statistically, the outcomes for the lowest quintile for whites is the same as for the highest quintile of blacks.

    https://www.thenewprogressive.net/ul...ge-statistics/

    Also, here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/annehelenpe...kk5#.fdp78A55r

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    nah, those influences are fairly easy for a rational person to avoid unless they come from an extremely broken home. Black communities the world ever generally suck because we have low fluid intelligence on average
    blacks often come from a broken home. why is it irrational to join a gang for protection in those neighborhoods? it isn't irrational to join a gang in prison either. I may join the Aryan Brotherhood if I got sent to prison. I may have to.
    "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearsofaclown View Post
    They do exist. People were talking about skin color in previous posts. If I grew up in a black inner city neighborhood, I could be just like those guys. That environment produces people like that. It's not a race thing, anybody raised in that area is susceptible to it. Black culture needs to be addressed. It is a toxic environment. There were no guns or gangs where I grew up.

    Those outliers still don't change the fact that there was systematic terror against Jews in Nazi Germany.
    I never denied that. All I'm saying is you can't have one single causal factor as ethnicity or skin tone when there are people who are wacko enough to basically join the enemy side from that perspective. And if that isn't the only causal factor, then there has to be something at play that no one has noticed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    It just seems as clear to me as my hand in front of my face that I wear jeans and not hijab, speak a certain English vernacular and not Spanish, and spend my days in a cubicle instead of in a mine because of the time and place in which I was born and my socioeconomic status. How does this not apply to everything, including the ideas I have about race, for example? It doesn't necessarily follow that all identity politics is 100% legitimate. But the idea that everything is about the individual and there is no society strikes me as so patently absurd that I don't know how to address it.
    "No society" is a bit harsh, but this kind of broad Society that people think of seems to not exist at all. I think the sort of contextual things you mentioned are the antithesis of Society in some way. Like there are many different, smaller societies, and that's why all the "social issues" don't exist in the sense that @strangeling agreed with. Some broad The World would homogenize things too much, but no world would leave everyone a bunch of solipsistic animals. The real state of things has to be set up rather differently than people think for people to do stupid and terrifying things like enslave only people of their own skin color or help perpetuate genocide against their own ethnicity and somehow evade inclusion in what they're doing. Sociology seems to have started with Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft, and those seem rather different from "issues in society" in the way people think of since those are societies rather than some human macrocosm. And societies, as non-universal, is more in line with historicism than Society. And I mostly just think of these societies as basically groups of people, not really connected to Society as an idea ta all. And the idea of Gesellschaft was something people joined out of rational interests, and since there's nothing rational about wanting to be oppressed, all "social issues" would be in Gemeinschaft, and therefore personal, not what people think of as Society at all.

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    I don't see why you take a socio-economic problem and reduce it to its simplest, most superficial observable aspect which is race correlations while there are plenty of poor asians, mexicans, and whites that end up funneled into the same bad circumstances based on their birth status, and race just isn't the core problem whatsoever. Why not confront the problem itself as culture, economics, poverty, and so on? What does this superficial thinking about race add to solving this complex problem, if anything? @Adam

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    what is with these "x not real" posts, last time it was potential

    i feel like this is the opposite of what say stoner philosophy does which is excavate assumptions and negate conclusions by attacking the assumptions, but instead of doing it in a Ne Te way this is some weird Ni Ti version where they build some solipsistic lingustic alternate reality from the ground up and then try to push their conclusions. i wonder if the two met what that would look like. i feel like these are species of the same cognitive dysfunction though which is reasoning without grounding

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    i feel like these are species of the same cognitive dysfunction though which is reasoning without grounding
    It's not really a dysfunction. It's just how reasoning works. People argue from different grounds and sometimes you can't get to one from another at all.

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    A "social issue" is the result of people having applied universal principles, such as justice or fairness, as an abstract concept to the entire society.

    A world without social issues is a world where nobody gives a crap about what happens to you. Police beats you up? Too bad, nobody gives a crap, and at any rate the police is more powerful than you, so you should just suck it up. Encounter racism/sexism? Not my problem. You got raped? Not my problem, perhaps it's your own fault. Born into a poor family? Not my problem, perhaps it's your own fault.

    Live in a world without social issues, and you'll see hell for what it really is.

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    This thread is kind of evil, but also cool. Nice perspective. Sometimes someone spend all their live trying to rescue "victim people of society" and it really is a problem within themselves and their relation to their parents. etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    This thread is kind of evil, but also cool. Nice perspective. Sometimes someone spend all their live trying to rescue "victim people of society" and it really is a problem within themselves and their relation to their parents. etc.
    The answer is probably that people just have this image of "Society" that doesn't exist more than anything. It reminds me of this argument about whether or not black people can be racist. Someone will always bring up that there are neighborhoods that you can go in and get killed for being white. I think it's obvious that black people can be racist. But it isn't institutional racism quite the same way as what white people have done to black people, even if it can be pretty serious, but it's still nonsense to say that black people can't be racist.

    So there are societies, but there isn't Society, and societies can have issues. And the problem is people looking for issues in Society when that doesn't exist instead of actually focusing on the issues in the societies that they're actually in. You can rescue people from their relationships and things like that and that's way easier than rescuing "The Oppressed". Rescuing The Oppressed is rescuing a concept, and at the very least that's way harder and not necessary to rescue a person, or even all of the people that that label would apply to. To rescue a concept you have to be a concept, and I think that might be a lot of what drives this whole urge in the first place. Just some ridiculous myth. But it's a myth that isn't working for anyone at all because it ends up with everyone paralyzed.

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