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Thread: My comments to DCNH

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    @Aki http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...identification

    Idk how accurate this is but it correlates face shapes to DCNH, it works for my case though.

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    oval

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    I have a vague heart-shape, so probably closest to oval, which fits me without referring to any existing DCNH system, since i type as the Creative subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    What's interesting is it makes sense for humans to start out H-like. H is max adaptability, and when we are children we don't have any control so all we can do is adapt to survive. It also makes sense for D to be the final step.
    This isn´t how many families work in 2018 (or even before). Mothers don´t kill their children if they "do not adapt" to what they require.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post

    2. this is where i err'd. im not sure if you caught it, but for a brief time i had a post up saying each DCNH has 2, not 1 like Tallmo's thread says, boosted functions. one is boosted more from what ive seen, but i'll get to that in a second. H boosts both PoLR and Ignoring. what is EII Ignoring? Fe. what does Sol strongly insist? a high Fe type. secondarily in your case it seems, EII PoLR is Se -> Sol's Se valuing claims from you (but your insistence you dont)
    Idk what you're saying lol, H have boosted mobilizing and demo


    3. it seems odd, though, if we go by that one subtype VI wikisocion page, if you do have a "soft" face, that seems to mean you must be an Inert type. Fi-EII doesnt fit for you, not from how you seem. but i have a possible explanation for that. in that deleted post, i attributed a sub-DCNH Temperament to each main DCNH. that is: H, for example, primary function boost is PoLR, secondary is Ignoring. H1, H2. H1 is just H, H2 is D-H ("like" D). if this division is correct, and you are indeed H2>H1 as you seem to be, this explains why you are not super introverted-introverted-introverted (Inert subtype + Introvert main type + Introverted DCNH).
    you've lost me at H1.

    IEI N (oval) doesnt make sense Temperament-wise* nor function-wise (*N i simplify to 'sticks up their ass/rules (for themselves - they are not Ds)' guys).

    but who knows.
    I thought I was C... but maybe H makes more sense, Idk.

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    When people think about functional boost DCNH they usually fall in trap at looking the function in its purest form.

    How I view it:
    D . To be in charge.
    C To go against the establishment.



    How about role in N?
    Has somewhat realistic view of the world. Knows how it functions what to follow. Takes it in form a societal norm.

    How about PoLR H?
    This person tries his/her best to tolerate pressure and possibly adapts to it.

    but very very different.
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    C = heretics (and quite happy to fit this lol)


    anyway, I agree with what YXPR said, that DCNH can almost be seen as it's own separate theory and using the IEs to describe causes more confusion all around.

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    Stewie and Brian: Beautiful C & N couple?
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    Just came on to say from my observations H type has increased Fe and C type maybe increased Fi but in the context of myself and my duals this has already been said as in CReative function and POLR.

    ALso H type eyes for me I recognise as not harsh but receptive and kind of deep/penetrable, able to take stuff in, whereas C is the opposite kind of hard and flatter and a literal inability to take stuff in.

    EDIT Also another observation C types are over-represented among mothers I meet, I suppose having a child is a creative act. It sometimes makes for lack of supportive conversations though.


    EDIT: The mothers I meet are stay at home mothers, probably D, N, and H are equally mother but are less likely to stay at home possibly, that whole I can do it my way C thing
    Last edited by Guillaine; 10-11-2018 at 11:28 PM.

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    Maria (who is part of SHS, interprets for Dr G and does a lot of the Model G translations) mentioned DCNH subtypes of IEI quite a bit in this hangout recently completed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yhl...K9kNkQ&index=4
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    Creative subtype? From sluggish cognitive tempo article.
    Johnny Head-in-Air is an absent-minded boy who seems unaware of his surroundings.

    Last edited by BrightDemonSheep96; 10-01-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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    I'm thinking few ILE's I know who make good stark contrast to me.

    First:
    Super impulsive guy who still has his life together. He has a safe base. This make me think of D type. He really thinks similarly when compared to mine thinking and solves problems similarly (when you look beyond the superficial mask). He has far more energy than I do. His PoLR is very clear and his Ni tends to be very Wile E Coyote kind of Ni. He also lacks the depth of thinking I have but on the other hand he is more of a doer. He came to me and apologized his behavior, LOL. He is very bipolar when it comes to those modes.

    Second:
    Very bland kind of guy. It is like he has some organization but also lacks all the edges. Has similar interest to mine. Hard to figure what he truly is without knowing more. That said the self control is more of self established which is a good thing. I'm inclined to say strong N.

    Me:
    Kind of sluggish at times with peaks of energy. I have always liked philosophical thinking and understanding depths. Low level of impulsivity. Depressive episodes. I have been called kind and nice person. People still say that when they know me better it is like I do not really but emphasis on feelings. I still know that I have PoLR. It sneaks out from somewhere like in terms of keeping right distance all the times and saying something randomly weird that cuts relational ties temporarily out of the picture. The only person that really get carried away this has been my supervisor type (EII-N).

    So based on this who am I. I'm again between C and H and possibly D.
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    I tend to see people lots of people settled in their ways everything seem so settled around them. You really have push something through around them. These people are normalizing.

    Then there are those who are on the pulse of time and do not usually see big picture from idealistic viewpoint (I like to call those people D's). They try respect standard protocol and provide it to N's. They try to push those protocols to C's as well but C's just I take care of it later in their own way.

    Then there are C's. They just do things in their own way. Hardly follow things to the letter. When I'm around some sort educational thing I just don't listen or I laugh at it how it demeans improvisational qualities of life. I only want the gist of it. They are usually internally focused. For example when I speak I do not look at people by taking deep concentration. Therefore my video followed some sort of rehearsed script when I only faced webcam. I usually go all over the place with my analysis. C's do not play normal social games.

    H's. They usually have fun when C's prod other people and tear new holes to the fabric of reality.

    D's will make C's work for them and C's will push their views on N's, N's just kick H's ass and finally H's will put D's in order.


    So if we think that D will provide some help to C's it is usually seen as too obtrusive when it goes too far. It hinders freedom. When C's might complete things for D the help hardly goes both ways. D's see C as uniquely resourceful people but ultimately out of place. For example I have seen N's and D's doing things for each other. C is the odd one out. They get no networking help in D/N environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    H's. They usually have fun when C's prod other people and tear new holes to the fabric of reality.
    Sounds relateable, maybe I am H after all xD

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    Aren't these DCNH descriptions somewhat skewed towards northern European / Anglo-Saxon and related cultures?

    How would a N subtype look like in a multi-active culture?

    https://www.crossculture.com/the-lew...-of-behaviour/
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    I started to look those items and was bit confused at first but the key word there are drivers and fears. So yeah it is like I'm independent and then fixer.

    It is like I look for stability (not order) but it is hard to get. I tend to get in serious problems with fixed rules and environments. I do not want to follow it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post


    I started to look those items and was bit confused at first but the key word there are drivers and fears. So yeah it is like I'm independent and then fixer.

    It is like I look for stability (not order) but it is hard to get. I tend to get in serious problems with fixed rules and environments. I do not want to follow it.
    That makes sense, you'd be firmly in the chaos half, in the independent quadrant but your dot more towards fixer. I also don't like fixed rules and environments, because it feels restraining, suffocating, but I do like to create my own order. So, the order has to come from me rather than being imposed from outside.

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    it's very interesting why people take seriously baseless heresies as subtypes, which are another typology
    more to say, from a dude which is not an author of the typology and hence that heresy is not Socionics from any point

    then by the usages of random wrong ideas are gotten and rationalized wrong types
    @Venus Rose
    "INFP EII"

    EII is the rational type. The dichotomy of rationality has identical description as judgment. It's nonsense to assign yourself the both dichotomies. If you got and sure having P by MBTI methods, then you can't be rational type in Socionics. Also INFP is IEI by dichotomies in Socionics and has other functions. There can't be switching as MBT typing methods are mostly based on dichotomies.

    I'm tired to see the evident nonsense on typology forums.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    it's very interesting why people take seriously baseless heresies as subtypes, which are another typology
    more to say, from a dude which is not an author of the typology and hence that heresy is not Socionics from any point

    then by the usages of random wrong ideas are gotten and rationalized wrong types
    @Venus Rose
    "INFP EII"

    EII is the rational type. The dichotomy of rationality has identical description as judgment. It's nonsense to assign yourself the both dichotomies. If you got and sure having P by MBTI methods, then you can't be rational type in Socionics. Also INFP is IEI by dichotomies in Socionics and has other functions. There can't be switching as MBT typing methods are mostly based on dichotomies.

    I'm tired to see the evident nonsense on typology forums.
    The main hole in your reasoning is that you assume that everyone uses the dichotomies to type themselves in MBTI when on MBTI forums that's frequently looked down upon. Most are encouraged to type via the functions and then place dichotomies second. Moreover, the high level descriptions in MBTI are problematic since they place stronger emphasis on the extraverted function which doesn't make sense. And, rationality and judging are not the same thing in all respects, especially when it comes to temperament if you're using the high level descriptions as your guide. For example, whereas Ij in socionics is characterized by a need for and desire to obtain stability, stability is most commonly associated with MBTI Si. I personally disagree with the MBTI interpretation of sensing functions, but when you're using that system you have to abide by those definitions for it to be useful. Another example is that gamma types are characterized as having a plan to see their vision fulfilled. That's a very NJ idea in MBTI if we're going by the high level descriptions.

    This is the exact problem I've talked about before. If there is no standard for how to type in either system, then there will be inconsistency everywhere when trying to translate between them. So, when translating, unless you're being consistent with your mechanism of typing, it's completely pointless. For example, if you're just using high level descriptions, then I think it's very likely that most INTJs in MBTI will type as LSI in socionics.
    ----- FarDraft, 2020

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    @FarDraft
    Your avatar is inspired by Ti - your base function. Clear logical laws of the game with simple black/white dibs. That desk is the system. You like this.
    It's not the probalistic mess of Te.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    Obama is the best, hard for me to see him and the zucc being the same type though
    I have them as business relations EIE vs LIE but the autism is strong in zucc

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    https://www.tutorialspoint.com/indiv...p_behavior.htm

    Task-oriented Roles

    Roles allotted to individuals according to their work and eligibility is known as task-oriented roles. Task-oriented roles can broadly divide individuals into six categories initiator, informer, clarifier, summarizer, reality tester and information seekers or providers respectively.

    • Initiator − The one who proposes, suggests, defines.
    • Informer − The one who offers facts, expresses feelings, gives opinions.
    • Clarifier − The one who interprets, defines, clarifies everything.
    • Summarizer − The one who links, restates, concludes, summarizes.
    • Reality Tester − The one who provides critical analysis.
    • Information seekers or providers − The one who gives information and data.
    Relationship-oriented Roles

    Roles that group individuals according to their efforts made to maintain healthy relationship in the group and achieve the goals are known as relationship-oriented roles. There are five categories of individuals in this category − harmonizer, gate keeper, consensus tester, encourager, and compromiser.

    • Harmonizer − The one who limits tension and reconciles disagreements.
    • Gate Keeper − The one who ensures participation by all.
    • Consensus Tester − The one who analyzes the decision-making process.
    • Encourager − The one who is warm, responsive, active, shows acceptance.
    • Compromiser − The one who admits error and limits conflict.
    Individual Roles

    Roles that classify a person according to the measure of individual effort put in the project aimed is known as individual roles. Five types of individuals fall into these roles − aggressor, blocker, dominator, cavalier, and avoidance.

    • Aggressor − The one who devalues others, attacks ideas.
    • Blocker − The one who disagrees and rebels beyond reason.
    • Dominator − The one who insists superiority to manipulate.
    • Cavalier − The one who takes part in a group non-productively.
    • Avoidance − The one who shows special interest to avoid task.
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    Normalzing subtype. The source of putting toilet paper the right way and toothpaste squeezing jokes.

    Example of D+N pair. The woman (-N) tells her pseudo psychopathic husband (LIE-D) to pick up towels.


    Truly dominant extroverted people are extremely overwhelming (they basically make me shit my pants).

    Like this one
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Gulenko's characterisation of intertype relationships may be problematic. DCNH is oddly similar to this system of personality traits, which also describes four types:

    * Explorer (matches C)

    * Builder (matches N)

    * Director (matches D)

    * Negotiator (matches H)


    Unlike DCNH, however:

    * Explorers are attracted to other Explorers.

    * Builders are attracted to other Builders.

    * Directors are attracted to Negotiators and Negotiators are attracted to Directors.

    The more non-type-related stuff you strip out, the more it clarifies a lot of seemingly contradictory observations, DCNH being one of the most powerful such sieves I've come across.
    @xerxe, what do you think about the correspondence between these two systems?

    In Helen Fisher's Personality system, I test as a Director. In Gulenko's system, I believe I test as a D, although in the descriptions of the types in his latest book, I have some N traits.
    In Helen fisher's system, I would be most attracted to a Negotiator, and I think that's very true.

    You are saying that Negotiators are H-types (Harmonizers) in Gulenlo's system. How did you reach that conclusion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You are saying that Negotiators are H-types (Harmonizers) in Gulenlo's system. How did you reach that conclusion?
    I guess because they're both really, really nice ?? I actually don't know, I stopped caring about this stuff and Socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    I guess because they're both really, really nice ?? I actually don't know, I stopped caring about this stuff and Socionics.
    Lol. OK, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoViD Spurdo 007 View Post
    Truly dominant extroverted people are extremely overwhelming (they basically make me shit my pants).

    Like this one
    lol at this woman being SLI...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @xerxe, what do you think about the correspondence between these two systems?

    In Helen Fisher's Personality system, I test as a Director. In Gulenko's system, I believe I test as a D, although in the descriptions of the types in his latest book, I have some N traits.
    In Helen fisher's system, I would be most attracted to a Negotiator, and I think that's very true.

    You are saying that Negotiators are H-types (Harmonizers) in Gulenlo's system. How did you reach that conclusion?
    Gulenko makes this comparison to Fisher's hormonal system in his book but I don't like it. I always test Director in the Fisher system, but in DCNH I could relate to all of the subtypes except Harmonizing.

    I like Model G, but I still don't like DCNH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Gulenko makes this comparison to Fisher's hormonal system in his book but I don't like it. I always test Director in the Fisher system, but in DCNH I could relate to all of the subtypes except Harmonizing.

    I like Model G, but I still don't like DCNH.
    Tbh reading the descriptions I got the impression that H was more of a "You are not supposed to be like this. What is wrong with you?!" subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Tbh reading the descriptions I got the impression that H was more of a "You are not supposed to be like this. What is wrong with you?!" subtype.
    DCNH probably tells place in social status hierarchy in terms of potential, it seems. So H is in the bottom. This however is more like an external viewpoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoViD Spurdo 007 View Post
    Truly dominant extroverted people are extremely overwhelming (they basically make me shit my pants).

    Like this one
    What.. the ...fuck. It that an ESE? How on earth is she ISTP?

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    From what I understand, DCNH changes based on life stages and even situation. You're the type that you are no matter what.

  33. #113
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    Gulenko says D is the least common (in your OP you said D and N most common) - do you still stand by this?
    Ania, I have changed my mind on some details. I'll get back to this thread tonight with an update.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

  34. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose Lamiac 007 View Post
    .

    Truly dominant extroverted people are extremely overwhelming (they basically make me shit my pants).

    Like this one
    I think she's a creative sub. has this typical scattered EP temperament. reminds me of an ESE girl that I once met at an art exhibition who was into voodoo. got extremly excited about the most mundane things too. she also reminds me of natalia taylor.

    https://youtu.be/HCg1CjGvxWk

    (Fe dom dresses as intuitive Fe dom, ha)
    Last edited by Alive; 11-25-2020 at 09:31 AM.

  35. #115
    ÉL QUE SABE, SABE DEAD's Avatar
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    I read SEE-C and it might as well have said:
    SEE-DEAD SUBTYPE.

  36. #116
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    Gulenko says D is the least common (in your OP you said D and N most common) - do you still stand by this?
    I made some updates. See my OP.

    I have changed my mind about D. They are less common than I thought.

    About D. This would be an example (Swedish politician). I don't know her main type.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

  37. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post

    Benefits of DCNH

    Basically 4 things imo:

    - Fills a huge gap in the understanding of compatibility
    - Makes typing easier.
    - Better understanding of how humans are specialized
    - Avoid common mistypings: H mistyped as IP main type, D mistyped as EJ main type etc.
    For the 4th benefit, IMO it might also be a drawback, it might lead to mistypes.

    For instance, if an ILE is socially awkward and s/he misunderstood the I/E dichotomy and s/he thinks that s/he is a LII. However, his or her Ne and Se are stronger than most LIIs. So actually s/he may think that s/he is a C-LII without finding out the fact that s/he is indeed LII.

    This is actually based on real life examples but the example is about MBTI. I encountered several people who claim that they are INTP but from my perspective they are indeed ILE. They believe that they are introverts for being socially awkward and they explain their Ne via subtypes. In the Chinese community there are one subtype system which claims to have a INTP subtype whose Ti is restricted by Ne perceptions and having a similar form of thinking described by the Process dichotomy. They believe that they are such a causal-deterministic, right-spinned and perception-based subtype of INTP.

    So I think subtype systems might help avoiding mistypings, but it might also cause mistypings. I think one should try to type people correctly within the 16 main types at first and then to use any subtype systems. Although DCNH is way much better than the MBTI subtype system I mentioned, I still believe that one should be typed within the 16 main types at first.

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