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Thread: My comments to DCNH

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    @Tallmo , have you observed if DCNH subtype remains stable during one's life, or if it does change ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    @Tallmo

    what do you think of Annie Clark? she seems like she could be a C gamma NT

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TlaYxoOO8
    She definitely seems C

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    @Tallmo , have you observed if DCNH subtype remains stable during one's life, or if it does change ?
    No I haven't seen any real subtype change. But I think it could happen. It's difficult though because the person would have to do much work outside of his comfort zone in order to make the change happen.

    Usually it's stable

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    She definitely seems C
    @Tallmo don't pull any punches what base type do you think

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    @Tallmo don't pull any punches what base type do you think
    I dont know, maybe LIE?

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    what do you make of the sensing content in that video

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    I read this book "Surrounded by Idiots" which talk about a system "DiSC" which talks about 4 types and in colours. The leader type (red) which achieve and are into competition, the funny/creative guy (yellow) who have many friends and good communicator, the stable and stubborn person (green) who do what they say and is trustworthy. The every guy. And the analytic (blue) who is also introverted as the green and want more information all the time, love to analyse. The book go into depths and have many descriptions. Also it have the "red-blue type" and other mixes and the yellow and blue are in conflict. Probably the red and green too etc. Its pretty much a better and more worked out verson of DNCH. I wonder who had the idea first, where it comes from and why is Gulenko so dull?



    personlighetstyper.png

    http://thomaserikson.com/books/surrounded-by-idiots/
    https://www.meetingsinternational.co...les.php?id=265

    DiSC overview:
    https://www.discprofile.com/what-is-disc/overview/

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    @Tallmo Interesting observations, thanks for sharing. I just have to say that Gulenko types Steve Jobs EIE. And EIE is the hardest type to live with, he says. Also he self-types LII-C, not LII-N.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    I just have to say that Gulenko types Steve Jobs EIE. And EIE is the hardest type to live with
    Gulenko types to EIE more than should.
    the hardness of EIE depends on IR
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Pretty sure I'm Harmonizing now. Reading Tallmo's description gives me the impression I'm not C, but that I could be compatible with C.

    Edit: I have a string of conflicting relations with D, including quadra members. That also reinforces it.


    I personally think the order of comptability goes like this:

    D with N and C with H (very compatible)
    H with N and C with D (second highest compatibility, partners get along ok for the most part with no real conflicts, but no deep understanding either)
    Identical subtypes (can be boring IMO, not much happens but good understanding overall. I voted this less compatible then former pair, but I think they are about equal actually)
    D with H and C with N (very incompatible)
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; 04-08-2018 at 03:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    @Tallmo Interesting observations, thanks for sharing. I just have to say that Gulenko types Steve Jobs EIE. And EIE is the hardest type to live with, he says. Also he self-types LII-C, not LII-N.
    He types his wife as EIE if I remember correctly?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    Pretty sure I'm Harmonizing now. Reading Tallmo's description gives me the impression I'm not C, but that I could be compatible with C.

    Edit: I have a string of conflicting relations with D, including quadra members. That also reinforces it.


    I personally think the order of comptability goes like this:

    D with N and C with H (very compatible)
    H with N and C with D (second highest compatibility, partners get along ok for the most part with no real conflicts, but no deep understanding either)
    Identical subtypes (can be boring IMO, not much happens but good understanding overall. I voted this less compatible then former pair, but I think they are about equal actually)
    D with H and C with N (very incompatible)
    Actually subtype-duals aren't the most attractive but they are the best for long term stability:
    *Ds love other people who also love winning, this energizes them
    *Cs love other people who are enthusiastic, orienting towards uncharted territory, this energizes them
    *Ns love other people who are interested in order and stability, this gives them confidence
    *Hs love other people who are very accommodating and chill, they love when their values are espoused

    However:
    Ds get annoyed by other Ds gradually because they mutually want people to control and don't want to be controlled.
    Cs get annoyed by other Cs gradually because they mutually want to impress and can't get this from someone who does the same
    Ns get annoyed by other Ns gradually because they isolate each other focusing on their on routine and order
    Hs get annoyed by other Hs gradually because they keep trying to adapt to each other endlessly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    Pretty sure I'm Harmonizing now. Reading Tallmo's description gives me the impression I'm not C, but that I could be compatible with C.

    Edit: I have a string of conflicting relations with D, including quadra members. That also reinforces it.


    I personally think the order of comptability goes like this:

    D with N and C with H (very compatible)
    H with N and C with D (second highest compatibility, partners get along ok for the most part with no real conflicts, but no deep understanding either)
    Identical subtypes (can be boring IMO, not much happens but good understanding overall. I voted this less compatible then former pair, but I think they are about equal actually)
    D with H and C with N (very incompatible)
    I agree on the compatibilities. Thats pretty much my experience. If your subtyping yourself then read the original articles. Im just giving scattered comments in the OP. Not complete descriptions.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 04-09-2018 at 04:32 PM.

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    I think I'm observing the following link:

    Dominant: seems like benefactor
    Creative: seems like mirror/supervisee
    Normalizing: seems like superego
    Harmonizing: seems like supervisor

    I think troll said something like this, but now I'm beginning to observe/confirm it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    @Tallmo

    re: Obama -

    What do you think of DCNH and VI (visual identification)? There might be more comprehensive DCNH VI traits, but in general I'm somewhat new to DCNH, VI, and this forum too, so haven't read that much. Anyway, in my >20x experience when I've been able to clearly decide on a shape this has never been false: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p..._DCNH_subtypes

    I've seen Obama typed as ENTp (EP), ENFj (EJ), INTp (IP). If you look at his face (google image "obama face"), it is definitely oval. This matches EP-D -- so Obama is an ENTp (or at least not the other types)?

    Since you seem to have extensive experience/history with DCNH, perhaps you can quickly jog your memory and report how many do or don't fit that basic VI formula? I'm sure I don't need to tell you, but sometimes face shape is not clearly one or the other -- for those cases, better to tally those as "dubious (lean yes) / dubious (lean no) / dubious (???)" and don't add them to the main yes/no count or something.

    Thanks!
    I dont really pay attention to face shapes so I cant tell you. Yes Obama is an obvious D subtype. Im not entirely sure of his type but I think he seems LIE.

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    Obama is the best, hard for me to see him and the zucc being the same type though

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    if we could determine temperament by face shape we could all go home anyway

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    I definitely try to adapt to whatever there's a lack of... like if everyone is boring I try to impress, if there's no energy I try to dominate conversation, if people are attention whores I back down and sip my tea, if people want to command its obviously just easier to give up my agenda...

    Most of the time people are more extroverted than I am so I am more N and H


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    Obama is distancing (inert/ethical/whatever) ESE. Dominating per DCNH. His marriage is identical relations.

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    university of chicago [1] constitutional law professor and president of the united states, barrack obama, ESE..? head executive [2] of the united states whose integral is LIE? seems unlikely



    [1] aka gamma-ville
    [2] the executive branch being almost by definition a Te function in the government

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    university of chicago [1] constitutional law professor and president of the united states, barrack obama, ESE..? head executive [2] of the united states whose integral is LIE? seems unlikely



    [1] aka gamma-ville
    [2] the executive branch being almost by definition a Te function in the government
    And this is exactly why you don't type people by reading their biography.

    Nothing you said contraindicates ESE. Inert ESEs are often academically focused and are particularly fond of history, law and related disciplines. As president, he did a lousy job mostly because he was too nice to people he should never have been nice to.

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    that's funny I imagine we're talking past eachother then, because you think he did a lousy job and therefore that supports ESE but I think he did an amazing job and that militates against ESE

    and I didn't read his biography to get that, to me that is straight common knowledge (for anyone with sufficient knowledge of the man to even begin to type him, at least) and common sense

    with regard to common sense, all I can say is if you think ESE (inert) are academics and lawyers then we have fundamentally very different perceptions of the type

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    that's funny I imagine we're talking past eachother then, because you think he did a lousy job and therefore that supports ESE but I think he did an amazing job and that militates against ESE
    Either way, doing a good or lousy job neither confirms nor contraindicates any type. For example, if he had a dual marriage instead of identical, he might have been able to lean on his partner's analysis and accomplish much more of his vision, but that's just speculation.

    There have of course been LIE presidents, for example, Bill Clinton

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    oh I see, you have an entire world of idiosyncratic typings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    oh I see, you have an entire world of idiosyncratic typings
    If you mean I can actually assess types well enough, then yes. As far as I can tell my assessments are the same as Gulenko's, which makes sense because I use his ideas extensively.

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    so did gulenko type bill clinton LIE and obama ESE or not? if he did, why not just say so at the get go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    so did gulenko type bill clinton LIE and obama ESE or not? if he did, why not just say so at the get go
    I honestly have no idea about that, I'm just saying in cases where Gulenko has a type for someone it agrees with my assessment. Can't say that for others (e.g. Filatova)

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    lol alright, glad we got the cleared up

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    That's why I was asking you to jog your memory (think about the people you know and who you've main and DDCNH typed), but if you don't want to that's fine.
    I cant confirm this from memory, it's hard to tell whats square, round etc. But it's usually very easy to type someone by DCNH without any extra tricks.

    If I remember correctly this hypothesis was made by a former forum member (JohDo). (I think he self-typed H-LII). ? Old threads might have more information.

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    LOL at face shape identification. I'm clearly either H or D based on that (oval or rectangular).
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    I'm not sure if you misunderstand or I. MAIN type/temperament cannot be determined by face shape. The question is if DCNH type/temperament can.

    e.g. ILE (EP temperament) w/ oval face = Dominating DCNH.
    yeah somewhere there's an article on DCNH and their link to hormones, which also influences face shape, thats probably the connection

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    Judging from your post there, you might be D. Loud, obvious, makes their presence known, etc. Then again, this is not me seriously typing you off one post.

    You also have H as a maybe in your type - so perhaps you are right with that? Keep in mind there's an unconscious bias by IJ/EP types to want to be C in my observations - so if you're really ILE, I'd be cautious.
    Well, I'm quite distancing person IRL. Normalizing type is the most balanced and well rounded person from societal perspective (not really me). Interpersonally trustworthiness comes from wanting to keep the peace.
    Measuring you right now

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    Guys let´s not take this stuff so too far.
    Many people are skeptical of VI even when it comes to standard socionics.
    Extending VI to DCNH you basically exponentiate the likelihood of reaching nonsense conclusions.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    It is like LII's speciality how they observe all kinds of shapes, sizes and movements. Gulenko's descriptions contain lots of it. It must be said that it is a hit and miss strategy. They like to make it sound like they are better at it than they really are still it seems far better than mine (dynamic sensing).
    Measuring you right now

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    Well, I love how you've described creative and harmonizing types as having almost this 'harsh' or 'sharp' look to their eyes. I've already noticed that in the guys I'm attracted to. It's like a look that stubbornly says "I refuse to be pinned down by your expectations of me" while still remaining open and wild, eccentric, 'crazy'. Well, at least that's the best way I can think of to put it.

    I think I'm definitely attracted to creative types most, but I'm not sure if I fit the harmonizing description It's tough to say. I guess most likely it's the best fit, though, but I feel like I've had to adopt traits of the creative subtype to make my life more fun and worthwhile. I haven't been able to find much Ne stimulation from the people/situations I was raised around.

    Edit: One other thing I've noticed is that I don't like prominent Se in a potential dating interest. I find it slightly threatening, or just off-putting. My own willpower is already strong enough for life. So it's just the Ne creative subtype that I like.
    Last edited by Xaiviay; 07-03-2018 at 07:53 PM.

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    Obama is D-ESI.

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    After some observation:

    D - Very much likely not me and I don't want to be like that either. It is like sometimes they tend have something underdeveloped in them in terms broadness of the mind. However they can show particularly good command of base.

    C - Maybe, maybe not. Not much of impulsiveness in me.

    N - I might humor many and pretend to follow something but in the end it is usually manipulated to become my own way which is not readily apparent. It has to be loose.

    H - Possibly. People say that I'm not fan of any sort of rivalry and territorial stuff and I prefer it like that. Not much of an adult. Quite docile.
    Measuring you right now

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    From the smallest sample size, I only have one person who I have watched grow since birth and I am quite sure he has never been H type, in the sense that from day 1 my son has been extremely difficult, pig-headed, loud, pushy, independent, contrary, attention seeking, inventive etc, at 6 weeks took him to a pediatrician who just said he was a "high crier" and nothing has changed since then in his temperament or personality I have just had to find ways to deal with it. that is my only example but I believe he is a c type and that has not started as anything else.

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    I am an obvious and relentless creative. People in some circles called me "Art" instead of my name. This happened more than once, in totally different circles who did not know each other, years apart. I had a career in music at 15 before I was struck with chronic illness which left me speaking in a whisper; then in my 20s, recorded my album singing through my whisper regardless. I definitely developed some more D qualities (and also got more into my low Se) because I had to stand up to doctors trying to kill me as well as people fucking with me all the time because I speak in a whisper. I no longer had easy access to managers and had to manage my own projects in order to bring my visions to fruition. But I am definitely a C sub, still; just with more dominant shades.
    It took me forever to find my type.
    People mistook me for EIE, which I knew was wrong (my best friend is EIE, I just knew his inner mechanics too well..)
    I was also mistaken for Ne or Se dom fairly often.
    This makes my confusion with typing so much more clear. There seemed to be vague shades of Pe (though I don't relate to the actual inner structure of Pe), and overuse of my creative function. I have a bit more 'wild energy' than Ni-subtype IEIs.

    My husband-- my soulmate-- is harmonizing. And my dating history shows a very clear avoidance of normalizing types.

    And my father is SLE -- probably harmonizing. Basically my 100% dual.. eep! Well, it's believable.

    This post is excellent!!!
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    @crAck what if my shape is triangle or diamond?

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