LTRs with Conflictors?

[Jarno]

The guardian angel thing applies best to Supervisors, not really to Conflictors.

Yes i agree, supervisors are a bit more guardian angel. But conflictors are close to supervisors. I guess it must be their 1st function that gives a feeling of guardian angel. great, we have cleared that up again. thanks.

[Jeremy8419]

My guardian angels are all fat and smell like cheese

[Myst]

Hey guys... So I'm finally admitting today (after a long, long period of denial) that I've been in a serious relationship with my conflictor.
I never felt like we were on the same page about anything and it was exhausting having to always explain my motives behind literally everything. He wanted to talk about things I never wanted to talk about and vice versa etc. He would get upset at me being me and I would try to play it off like it never bothered me but it did blah blah blah


Anyways I'd like to make it into a topic

Okie so.. wondering about anyone's experiences spending extended amounts of time with their conflictors?

I only had a month long relationship with my Conflictor (IEE). But we did spend quite some time interacting so yeah it counts as extended enough amounts of time.

It first seemed really good but then he noticed there were more and more lows with the highs. I didn't notice that (I'm not so aware of some moods/emotions and the whole thing was so new with me with how he affected me initially) but in hindsight I have to say he was right. The deeper I wanted to get into things the less we could be on the same page, too. I tried really hard to adjust to his stuff - while I actually failed to adjust because we were too different - and I didn't realize when it passed the point of what's acceptable. I would have noticed this much sooner in every other case, but not with him because I was pretty much blinded for a while because of the attraction (which initially was very strong between us). It was really sobering though when I realized in hindsight what was going on. I sure learned from it...

I always felt like my brain was being slightly shut off... like because I was confused and couldn't do anything the way I normally could I just was sort of frozen in time.

Yes, we both had this. He commented on this near the end of the relationship, for me it took a little more time to realize this was going on. I remember I only had one stable anchor left mentally which was that I wanted to find out if we could align ourselves on long term goals. I knew that this was something that had to be clarified and that it could be a deal breaker. It would have been, but I did break up with him before I got to clarify that. Though during the breakup process, I did find out that we would definitely not have been able to align on long term goals - he was not the type who really had long term ambition for sure, he just pretended and then showed his real face at the end.

I knew I wasn't being myself but I also couldn't generate anything to say around him bc I was getting no external information. We had a lot of silence. Everything was about him and he basically was comfortable not knowing anything about me. He always got angry because he felt like I should have just volunteered information, but I need to know people actually want to get to know me. I'm not going to talk about anything unless I think you want to hear it, that's a principle I stand by for myself.

I don't want to vent so much, though. I'd rather hear about other people's experiences.

Please do vent. I'm very interested in this topic.

Also... my parents are Betas. Does anyone find if they had problems with a parent that they seek out partners of that same type or type with the same values?

Yah, Gamma Rational parents (duals with matching subtype), Gamma Rational boyfriends. I did learn from those relationships though, attraction to these types remains but I know now to get into it now for any kind of longer term relationship.

In addition, I would also like to add the benefits of dating your conflictor (and I would like to hear others on this as well):
-You can see your worst self (and grow rapidly from it)

I dunno about that. I did see in hindsight (when no longer blinded by the attraction and his Fe demo) that I must've not looked very cool with my behaviour towards the end of the relationship but what's sad is that I was doing all that just to try and adjust and fix things trying to have his interests in mind. Except I didn't realize his actual interests were different from what I thought they were. That's in part because he did not express it for a long time when he was bothered by something, though.

-You develop an extremely strong center through the friction and turmoil
-You get strong/you realize nobody can hurt you anymore

Actually, yes, I had an experience after about 3 weeks (3 intense weeks, mind you) in that relationship, that was really really shit while strengthening myself up through it. I really pushed through it and I felt like I will never be affected by shit like that in future. And another such experience (which was shit in another way but still shit, yah) on the last day of the relationship (a few hours before I finally had my blinders removed and so I decided to break up with him). It was completely awesome.

-You try harder to empathize with things you wouldn't normally want to

This one not really. I did emphatize a little bit with him in hindsight but he did not behave in a fair way at all after I finally made him understand that I was really breaking up with him.

I'll just simply walk away from people who are not compatible with me. Will be better for them too, of course.

So, in short, you build tons of character from being with your conflictor. I don't regret a single thing.

I'm going away to a different area from where I live for the summer, so hopefully that will give us space and time to heal/move on from each other bc we were pretty horrible to one another despite having a strong bond between us. It was too rocky to ever build trust.

Sorry to hear that, reading your type thread where you talked about it in much better terms tbh

So do you type him SLI now?

[Myst]

My grandmother is LSI. When I was younger we’d constantly fight, she’d slap me every time I disobeyed some of her rules. My grandfather is ESE and when he wanted to make some journeys and I would try to make suggestions, my grandmother would get defensive and angry (omg possibilities, quick I need to put my head in the sand). The older I got the more I toned back and to keep the peace and have a harmonious relationship with her I’d just shut my mouth as soon as I felt that I am about to overstep some boundaries. Worked pretty well so far, there’s still a certain uneasiness between us, but no fighting anymore. She still tries to drill me in line, I just listen and nod and as soon as she's gone, I do whatever I like again.
As long as one of the parties is wise enough to yield sometimes, you can have shallow but harmonious relations.

I really wonder how you'd get into a romantic relationship with your conflictor ? LSI girls hate me from the first second they see me and always give me death stares as soon as I am in their 5 mile radius. I get the message and just stay away from them. It’s like we both instinctively know we couldn’t stand each other. That said I have no clue how someone could mistake a LSI for a SLI or vice versa. They are so inherently different.

Quasis are similar and for sure I can mistake them for each other sometimes. I don't have the IEE-hate instinct apparently at all. I don't mind them, I can even really enjoy the Fe demo, I only realize these people are IEE from observing my internal reactions to them after intense/substantial enough interaction with them. By "internal reactions" I mainly mean, they tend to make my Ne overloaded and that has a peculiar feeling to it. (I learned this after interacting with a couple of them.) Also, they seem to react subtly evasively to the Ti from me in a certain way. And, finally, what I do notice reliably enough after a while is the personal tone to their Fi creative thingie. That's something I can find hard to react to beyond just being polite and nice because my ideas for Fi boundaries are so very different.

Agreed there can be superficially good relations on the social distance. Not on any closer distance than that.

[scio]

@Myst I'll PM you so we can vent together
Yeah, the ethical partner would probably always be the first to realize the incompatibility.
He was very much in denial the entire time, he wouldn't let go even though I was constantly getting hurt by him.
I'm glad you had your blinders removed and left. Mmm I definitely want to hear about how the Ne overload would
make you feel. I always left just in a state of confusion. He didn't seem to want to talk about anything, all of our conversations felt
sort of unfulfilling. I developed a nervousness over time around him because any attempt I would make to start a conversation just seemed "unnatural" to him so he would simply leave me hanging and not respond.....It felt horrible.
I do type him SLI but it could also be that we were duals and far too immature for each other. Well...no. HE is too immature for ME. Lol
Rereading what I wrote in my typing thread makes me a bit interested in why I feel/felt so strongly about him and how it did feel amazing for bits of time.
The good was incredible but the bad was the lowest I've ever been. He brought out everything in me, like he was trying to rip my insides out of my body.

Also, I do want to add I hope you find a great EIE. I would so appreciate someone trying to work with me and adjust to me as you did for the IEE. IME, my LIE sister would just make me feel bad for "molding to her behavior". She would always just be herself and everyone else in the family had to watch what they did around her, because Fi inferior (I can laugh at it now but at the time it was scary lol) made her explode a lot when she was young. It becomes one-sided and what's worse is that the Fi user will not appreciate or even understand why you're acting this way. "Sharing" and "molding" isn't something they ever want to do. You'll be killing yourself trying to cater to the other person, and they will not appreciate it at all. That in itself breeds resentment. I long to find someone that is in tune with me as much as I am in tune with them. I need that. We need to go out and find the right people! I think that plenty of "abusive" relationships really are just conflict relationships. Thank you for your reply

[Myst]

@Myst I'll PM you so we can vent together
Yeah, the ethical partner would probably always be the first to realize the incompatibility.
He was very much in denial the entire time, he wouldn't let go even though I was constantly getting hurt by him.
I'm glad you had your blinders removed and left. Mmm I definitely want to hear about how the Ne overload would
make you feel. I always left just in a state of confusion. He didn't seem to want to talk about anything, all of our conversations felt
sort of unfulfilling. I developed a nervousness over time around him because any attempt I would make to start a conversation just seemed "unnatural" to him so he would simply leave me hanging and not respond.....It felt horrible.

Sorry forgot to reply to this. The Ne overload with the IEE guy was simply my trying to follow whatever he was rambling about, with 1000 questions in my head because he kept doing these weird jumps in trying to flesh out his thoughts. But this was probably because we were on a closer distance with me trying to get deeper in talking. So that's why he seemed especially bad with it. He was not able to really talk in a way that would truly make sense to me. A similar issue happened with another IEE (a girl) when I tried to get into real discussion with her. It wasn't "1000 questions" there though because I was familiar at least with the topic being discussed, so it was a bit better in that way.

Now, when I don't try to go too deep with IEEs then they are more moderate with this and it's just like, oh they talk about this then that and then that but I can follow that superficially by just not trying to understand too much of it and I also don't bother with trying to follow it when they do contradict themselves because on that superficial level of social talking it doesn't get in my way. So yeah by default I don't mind, it's whatever. All in all, when it's just superficial talking with me not trying to get the IEE to really flesh out their ideas so that I can truly follow and be on the same page with them, then the only Ne overload would be that it's a bit too many "crazy" ideas to listen to. But it's not too bad because they also can make it fun with the Fe demo when they decide to engage that too. The effect then is just a bit like a much milder version of the highs and lows that I had with that IEE guy on closer distance. With me realizing after a while that many of the ideas don't actually lead anywhere and tuning out of that part then, but I can still talk to them a bit if it's about some shared interest or something.

I did have the state of confusion with that guy, yeah, that's where I was trying to hold on to that last stable mental anchor (the goals orientation). He also had confusion, he told me it resulted in him thinking too much in a way that was not natural to him (Ti?).

I do type him SLI but it could also be that we were duals and far too immature for each other. Well...no. HE is too immature for ME. Lol
Rereading what I wrote in my typing thread makes me a bit interested in why I feel/felt so strongly about him and how it did feel amazing for bits of time.
The good was incredible but the bad was the lowest I've ever been. He brought out everything in me, like he was trying to rip my insides out of my body.

Sounds like Conflict on close distance yeah. I think this is a big red flag for the relationship, I honestly think you shouldn't continue existing in such a bad relationship, regardless of type.

Also, I do want to add I hope you find a great EIE. I would so appreciate someone trying to work with me and adjust to me as you did for the IEE. IME, my LIE sister would just make me feel bad for "molding to her behavior". She would always just be herself and everyone else in the family had to watch what they did around her, because Fi inferior (I can laugh at it now but at the time it was scary lol) made her explode a lot when she was young. It becomes one-sided and what's worse is that the Fi user will not appreciate or even understand why you're acting this way. "Sharing" and "molding" isn't something they ever want to do. You'll be killing yourself trying to cater to the other person, and they will not appreciate it at all. That in itself breeds resentment. I long to find someone that is in tune with me as much as I am in tune with them. I need that. We need to go out and find the right people! I think that plenty of "abusive" relationships really are just conflict relationships. Thank you for your reply

Thanks. Btw I read IEEs do adjust a lot too, idk, maybe they do in their own way and I just don't notice . That guy also said that he has this problem of focusing on other people's needs and neglecting his own and then he gets to resent it. But he was trying to fix this in himself. I think both he and I were in the process of learning more about what works for us in relationships and I'm sure it was a good experience for that lol.

[Myst]

@vertu

I think this is a good comparison of Fe PoLR vs Fe DS (for ISTx types) if you are still curious by any chance:

Fe section here http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya
vs
Fe section here http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya

[Tallmo]

Okie so.. wondering about anyone's experiences spending extended amounts of time with their conflictors?

Yes. My conflictor is LIE. We studied at the same university and were friends during that time. It kindof works as long as the distance is there. But it starts to feel lonely after awhile because people naturally want to bond more after spending more time together. All bonding attempts seemed in vain. Maybe some shared interests we could talk about, but it is impossible to build over the distance. There were glimpses of closeness, sometimes when drinking alcohol, and then it went away. Very unsatisfactory. But the LIE had many projects going on so he brought me into all kinds of activities.

Does anyone find if they had problems with a parent that they seek out partners of that same type or type with the same values?

My mother is ESI and I've been with some ESI women, so maybe there is a connection. Maybe I was able to suffer through the discomfort for awhile because there was something familiar in the ESI. But quasi-relations are a big waste of time, based on my experience (and socionics).

In addition, I would also like to add the benefits of dating your conflictor (and I would like to hear others on this as well):

I don't think there are any benefits from the relationship itself. But because LIEs have a totally different approach to things than I, they can inspire me to do things I don't normally do. That's a good thing. But the relationship itself is horrible.

[The Reality Denialist]

All I can say: ESIs tend to strangle my mind.

I've worked under ESI supervision. It was major pain for both. Their ways...
Then I know one ESI who has exactly the same weekly clean up routine that she has followed for decades. Now she can not do it anymore and cleaning help from social services won't do so she tortures her children with this (it's a big house) on weekly basis (one lives 300 km away and other one 60 km away).

I can not tolerate this kind of stubbornness.

[scio]

@Myst yes sorry again for the late response. I'm gonna probably stay off this site for awhile as it is kind of manipulating my perception of people in my life. I don't wish to be as judgmental of my peers as I have become. As for the Fe PolR section...I do think that fits better. I would type him as SLI but I'm also just thinking he was just a narcissist and it wasn't type related. He made me feel as though I didn't exist and would literally forget about me. He would reply to things when it was convenient for him and when I expressed to him that I was offended by this because he could go so long without talking to me he said that replying just to reply is "babying me". He wouldn't change anything when I said I was offended by it because it didn't make personal sense to him. So... I think I was kind of making excuses for his behavior. He would literally reply to what I said often with made-up answers like I would say "how are you today?" and he would say stuff like "i just wanna eat lots of chicken" like ????. This is not even a good example of that but most of our conversations were like "bloop bloop" "blop" and just frustrating in this sense because they were pointless and extremely irritating. He saw NO value in having a coherent conversation and it felt a lot like narcissistic manipulation "word salad". The human language to him was essentially useless so me being a human being wanting to follow his thoughts was basically fruitless. Even more obvious, he wanted to know nothing about my day or how I spent my time so would never know what to say when I asked, making me feel like an idiot for even being curious about him in a personal way. Idk he has lots of friends. I kept trying to understand and be okay with basically having no conversations of any actual substance but I couldn't. He would get immediately interested when I asked him direct questions and he would answer clearly and he loved teaching in the same way that an SLI would but I think he was just not a great person in general. I felt neglected and ashamed for wanting reciprocation bc he never understood the point. He couldn't respond in a conversation, he couldn't show up on time, he would never think of me and try to help make my life easier. To him, the "integration of our lives" was a laughable idea...but that's what I'm all about. I wanted to share ideas and thoughts and projects and he just wanted to sit and we could be on our computers seperately doing nothing actually together. It felt like he just wanted me to be a live dummy for his comfort. So it was doomed to be horrible from the start.

[scio]

@Tallmo yeah I think that due to the relationship being so naturally bleak, my only way to cope was to think of how it was helping me over time. it was survival lmao

[scio]

@unsuccessfull Alphamale I'm sorry about that. I bet all of your ideas would have been great working under an SEI
Yeah that really is a lot just to avoid change hmmm

[GuavaDrunk]

So it was doomed to be horrible from the start.

Given your description, it sure sounds like it. If someone cannot see past the tip of their own nose to act in the interest of your needs instead of their wants, then they're not good enough to deeply invest in. Glad you're out.

[scio]

Thanks @GuavaDrunk

[Myst]

@Myst yes sorry again for the late response. I'm gonna probably stay off this site for awhile as it is kind of manipulating my perception of people in my life.

If it affects you that way (manipulating the perception in the wrong way, instead of some good way to integrate the ideas into your worldview) then yeah good idea to stay away from socionics.

I don't wish to be as judgmental of my peers as I have become. As for the Fe PolR section...I do think that fits better. I would type him as SLI but I'm also just thinking he was just a narcissist and it wasn't type related. He made me feel as though I didn't exist and would literally forget about me. He would reply to things when it was convenient for him and when I expressed to him that I was offended by this because he could go so long without talking to me he said that replying just to reply is "babying me". He wouldn't change anything when I said I was offended by it because it didn't make personal sense to him. So... I think I was kind of making excuses for his behavior. He would literally reply to what I said often with made-up answers like I would say "how are you today?" and he would say stuff like "i just wanna eat lots of chicken" like ????. This is not even a good example of that but most of our conversations were like "bloop bloop" "blop" and just frustrating in this sense because they were pointless and extremely irritating. He saw NO value in having a coherent conversation and it felt a lot like narcissistic manipulation "word salad". The human language to him was essentially useless so me being a human being wanting to follow his thoughts was basically fruitless. Even more obvious, he wanted to know nothing about my day or how I spent my time so would never know what to say when I asked, making me feel like an idiot for even being curious about him in a personal way. Idk he has lots of friends. I kept trying to understand and be okay with basically having no conversations of any actual substance but I couldn't. He would get immediately interested when I asked him direct questions and he would answer clearly and he loved teaching in the same way that an SLI would but I think he was just not a great person in general. I felt neglected and ashamed for wanting reciprocation bc he never understood the point. He couldn't respond in a conversation, he couldn't show up on time, he would never think of me and try to help make my life easier. To him, the "integration of our lives" was a laughable idea...but that's what I'm all about. I wanted to share ideas and thoughts and projects and he just wanted to sit and we could be on our computers seperately doing nothing actually together. It felt like he just wanted me to be a live dummy for his comfort. So it was doomed to be horrible from the start.

Yeah wow, this is doomed. Btw the chicken example seems very random Si to me lol.

[Hermit Soul]

I haven't been in a LTR with a conflictor, but I have been in the same working environment as my conflictor. It was the biggest nightmare ever. My conflictor happens to be an unhealthy version of her type too,
and she will constantly pick on me non-stop.
My conflictor hates to hear me talk, she told me that I speak too slowly and hearing me talk makes her feel like falling asleep, and she would often interrupt me and cut me off halfway whenever I am speaking, so I decided to stay silent. Then when I decided to stay silent, my conflictor picked on me again for not talking. No matter what I do, my conflictor can never be satisfied, and they will constantly find new things about me to pick on. I ended up sinking into depression, and I have to leave my job for my mental health.

I don't think I can ever be in a LTR or even become friends with my conflictor. For my own mental health sanity, I need to stay away from them as far as possible. I'll remain polite around them, but at the same time, I'll make sure to keep my distance from them and keep our relationship professional.