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Thread: LII, do you agree?

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    Default LII, do you agree?

    Hi all, I'm new to this forum. My name's Alex and I'm from Italy (forgive me in advance for any grammar mistake I'll make).

    So, I've been investigating a lot to understand my MBTI best-fit type, but Socionics impressed me more than MBTI itself did. That's why I'm here and I hope you can help me clarifying my Socio-type.

    My first choice has always been LII. I think I have a very strong Ti, developed better than any other function. I like schemes, systems, classifications and I always find myself thinking about something in order to analyze it. For example, when I watch TV advertisements, I like to think about "why did they choose this character to make that certain advertisement" or "why did he say these words instead of saying something else", often trying to find the way I would have done it.

    When sticking to logic (especially in my class), sometimes people call me "cold" or "impassive", but they know I don't want to offend them in any way. It's like I always seek harmony but never expand it to others.

    Talking about Ne, I think school is the primary place where I need to use it. When copying with a long/boring assignment, or preparing for an oral test, you won't find me doing the conventional job (studying any single page), but I'd rather find a new way to face it: invent strange theories, apply systems to the subject, philosophize a lot. The other day, just to give you an idea, I had an Italian oral test. It was about "I Promessi Sposi" ("The Betrothed"), the famous novel. Instead of just telling the story of one chapter, I analyzed Renzo's feelings with the 5 emotions model of "Inside Out", by mixing two or more basic emotions. Due to these crazy ideas, my schoolmate say I'm a bit weird (but in a good way).

    My friends see me as reliable, often asking me about any kind of logical problem. If you ask them, they'd define me "perfectionist", "aloof" or just "smart". I don't have a constant out-of-school relashionship with them, but they kind of understand me and always respect me for my way of thinking.

    The greatest struggle was to find my point on the j/p (rational/irrational) dichotomy. I think I am a j. I'm organized, prepared (even though I love improvising) and not that adaptable in changing situations. I don't see myself moving to another country in just a few days. Also, I'm very punctual and early-starting. I always try to give my 100%, at times using strategies to increas my income with less effort.

    So what do you think? Am I a LII/INTj?

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    I think you should fill out a questionnaire. I'm not saying I'll read it but you would have a better chance of being accurately typed that way.

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    If you make a video with the questionnaire in my signature I'll watch it and tell you what I think. You can also do it written but then please fill out all the questions for best results.

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    Ok, I'm going to post it as soon as I can (after school).

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    Tell me about yourself.
    I’m Alex, 16 years old and I’m from Italy. Yeah, such a beautiful country.

    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
    I’m attending a scientific lyceum, 10th grade. At the moment I’m studying for my IGCSE exams (Mathematics, Physics, Geography, Biology, English). Let’s say I like most of the subjects, but I really can’t stand the Italian school method. I’d rather build my own school where students learn what they want, instead of covering too many areas in a usless and overly-superficial way. I don't like subjects like History. Italian culture is strongly funded on its past and I find pretty meaningless to study all those facts twice (1st/8th grade and 9th/13th grade). One time is enough. For me school is quite easy. Always As and some Bs with not much effort. I like it when a topic is challenging, that's why I spend more times on the subjects I am least comfortable with.

    What are your values, and why?
    Live and let die. I don’t care about others’ thoughts on me and my actions. I just let them speak and say what they want. My friends always tell me I’m honest and humble. If I know the truth I always speak up. I never criticize others for their ideas even if I know they’re wrong. I don’t like to embarrass people: I just want anything to be quiet and normal. Don’t bother me and I won’t bother you. I hate when people try to get what they want by cheating. It's just not meritocratic and not logical.

    What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
    My day is pretty normal and I tend to see my life in week patterns. Studying aside (which takes me often less than 2 hours and a half), I spend my time at home, alone. I have a LOT of hobbies. First of all: Music. I love listening, playing and composing music. I play the bass, the violin and the drums and I always find myself drumming my fingers on the desk. This means I always have a piece of music in my head. Maybe due to this strong influence, I have perfect pitch and it’s so cool (but annoying at times). I can recognize any musical note, like a car horn, a bell, a beep. I also have eidetic memory: I can easily remember (by visualizing information in my mind) the tracklist of an album, the length of a song or the pages of an assignment. As you can see, I’m interested in personality typing (since 23/12/2015, I love dates) and I like anything which can be synthetized with a scheme, a map or a classification. Another hobby: thinking. Yeah, the core of my daytime. I always analyze things and I think it’s what I do most of the time. I’m also obsessed with time, counting days. On my phone I have a day counter with all my important life events (both since and until). For example, by looking at it, today I can say I've lived 5844 days. Going out with people is not one of my hobby. I prefer staying alone, spending time doing whatever my mind tells/suggests me to do. I also like writing poems since poetry is an art based on rhythm. I am an hardcore Green Day, Muse and Ramones fan. So hardcore that I spent the whole autumn/winter 2016 interpreting, forecasting and recording the positions of 2016/2017 Green Day singles in the US music charts.
    It's not an hobby, but on the 14th of January I went to a Green Day concert. I don't like loud and crowded places. The list would go on (collecting things, such as stones, coins, postcards, stamps, reading lots of interesting things on the internet and things like that).

    Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
    I am cold most of the times. I never display any emotional gesture and I feel embarrassed when so. When I am with a close friend, or talking about topics I like, I completely change my attitude, becoming very open. I am reserved and I HATE working in groups. Individuality must be awarded. As I said, I never go out with friends, but at school I have a peaceful yet detached relation with them. There is an inverse proportionality between my analytical behaviour and the level of friendliness I have with someone: the more I know a person the less I analyze him/her.

    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
    In both cases: someone to discuss with. I want nothing else. Just someone to have a good intellectual exchange with. I don’t give a shit about appearence.

    What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?
    I always have problems for being too honest. Sometimes I say things that should not be said, then I bite my tounge off. I just can’t stand two-faced people who aren’t fair with themselves and others. Also, I happen to have arguments with friends who don’t follow the logics and deny the truth in front of my eyes. Although I may have this kind of problems, they are very unlikely to happen more than once a month. I’m usually a person who does his own business. I don’t care about others.

    How would your friends describe you?
    Aloof, silent, genius (ok, I often say they exaggerate here), detached, organized, funny (weird sense of humor), phlegmatic (they are envious of my “never-anxious attitude”). They always come to me to exercise for tests, oral tests or philosophical question. They say "you are an oracle", meaning that they can rely on my information. I'm happy about that but I don't think it's fair to treat me this way. My help is not for any kind of emotional support. I'm not good at that. Unless I have to calm down someone.

    What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    I’m quick to do anything (study in a little), they are always surprised when I calculate things fast in my mind (like square roots) or I remember dates ecc. Some say I am very good at sketching things and writing poems. Personally, I like my perfectionism: doing things giving my 100%. My willpower is one of my main traits. If I want it then I can do it. Also, ideas, ideas, ideas. My mind is always full of random ideas which may never have a practical use. I often try to exploit them and most of the time it’s a success. School is the main place where I share those ideas. This may be the reason why I have a good impression on teachers, who define me “creative”. Friends also say I have a good rethoric and like to have "inspiring" conversations, as they say, with me. I'm always punctual, often arriving at the meeting point very early (15/20 minutes before).

    What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
    I’m intransigent and stubborn. I like to do things my own way and it takes a lot of time before I can trust someone, after having analyzed his words and actions for days. Consequently, I’m not so adaptable in difficult situations (I consider it my greatest weakness). My friends also say I’m too unemotional. They’d like me to spend more of my time with them. I put too little effort on my appearence (ordinary clothes, ordinary haircut, ordinary shoes) but health is one of my main concerns. I’m not good at respecting authority. There is no problem if I agree with your way of thinking, but if you want me to respect meaningless rules just because “you want it”, don’t expect me to be mild. I can become rebellious and defensive when my principles are not respected. In the end, they say I’m too precise. I am pedantic when I see grammar and numerical mistakes, inaccurate layouts, correcting others not because “I want to criticize you”, but because “I care”. I hate to repeat things.

    In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
    I am VERY indipendent. Since 1st grade I haven’t had any need for help (homework, time managing, money managing) by anyone. At times, it can even annoy me being helped when I already know how to do something. Usually I am the one who helps (even if I’m not the most altruistic person on this planet). Looking in depth, though, I need help in some areas, such as the emotional field. I need someone helping me to become more trustful, gragarious and willing to take more risks.

    What things do you find to be a chore? What things do you enjoy more than others?
    I don’t like studying boring topics or being forced to read “this book”. For example, now I’m answering all these questions and I find this activity quite boring. Also, listening to some of my teachers’ lessons/monologues. I prefer an interactive lession with questions and active participation (I might be a declarer type). In fact, when given the opportunity to present some of my new ideas to the class (secret alphabets, how to create your signature, how to analyze a country using charts only and shit like that), I like my classmates to interact and ask other things. What do I enjoy more than others? Thinking, obviously.

    What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?
    I want to become a statistician. Numbers, data, charts, graphs, tables. That’s my world. I think it’s always been clear to me. I just have to work hard to accomplish my goal and, at times, it’s scary to think about faliure. Besides this, I’d also like to become a music producer. Money is not important to me: I just need to do what I like.

    If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
    “Rock all night, think all day”. I’d buy a recording studio on an isolated mountain with thousands of instruments from all the world, entire discographies of my favorite artists (also classical music, Beethoven and Vivaldi are my myths) and spend the rest of my life playing and inventing music, also analyzing relationships beetween mathematics and music. Interdisciplinarity is important to me. I’d jump from observing the universe with a mega-telescope to write a novel about the first thing that comes to mind. Rest? Nah, I don’t have time for that.

    What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?
    I like order. At times my desk can be a mess, but I know I’ll tidy up soon. I love putting things in order (when I have time, I have to do it WELL). My room is very ordinary, as you could expect. A 1000 pieces puzzle of a ship on one side, my drowing of “The Resistance” artwork [the Muse album (Origin of Symmetry is better, though, it’s pure genius)]. On my wardrobe, a poster of the band I play in. Talkin’ about daily chores: well, I don’t say I like routine. It’s quite boring and repetitive. But in makes me feel comfortable. I need structure but I don’t like it. It’s strange to think about it.

    How do you behave around strangers?
    That’s an easy one. I am silent, with a predictable robotic respect of social norms (I have to mantain my reputation). Never start a conversation. If one asks me something though, I always try to respond in a soft way.

    How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
    I like arguments. I often take part in an argument for the sake of exercise my logical thought. But when in serious conflict, I try to isolate myself and do something else, acting like I am superior to the other person. If someone insults me (very rare, I don’t know why) I always find a way to counterattack him. My sense of humor helps me to do that. If the problem with that person persists, then I actvate my “don’t-give-a-shit mode”. Useful all of the times.

    What is one common misconception that people have? Explain why it is wrong.
    “For you everything is easy”. I can’t quantify how I hate this sentence. Just because I’m good at school they think I’m “God” (oh, just so that you know, I’m agnostic). They always compare their performance to mine to see if they did well. What a useless method. I make mistakes and I’m happy about it.

    What did you do last Friday?
    School, homework, 2 hours of bass, swimming pool and TV. Fantastic, don't you think?

    Who do you admire, and why?
    People who do what they want to do. It doesn’t matter who they are, if they’re rich or poor, famous or unknown, powerful or not. They accomplished their biggest goal.

    What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?

    As said, I am an agnostic. The existence of God can’t be neither proven nor disproven. I need more information. This said, I think that clergy is something wrong. We don't need it. Faith is something else.

    What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?

    Politics? No, I don’t care about it. Power is not something I seek.

    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
    I like to work with people that do what should be done. I can’t stand incompetence, inaccuracy and distraction during a work group. This is the main reason why my teachers always give me the “leader” role, even though I don’t like it that much. I don’t want to control people. Efficiency? Yes, but ideas first. Original is better than ordinary. When I am the leader I give assignments to every member of the group, that will share his work in a second moment with others.

    What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
    Mathematics. I don’t know why. Maybe because is the one that I struggle the most with. A love/hate relationship.

    How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
    I am very dutiful. “Work first, then play” is one of my mottos. When I have not completed an assignement I feel guilty. If I am not prepared, though, I love improvising and it always results in something good. From others I expect competence, collaboration and creativity (my CCC rule).

    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    First of all I don’t think I’ll have a child. But if so, then I’d be not very strict with him. I’d let him explore and understand the world, fulfilling any of his curiosities. I’d try not to influence him with my point of view and help him only when he really needs it. I don’t know if it’s the right way, but that’s how I would do it.

    What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
    We only live once. We can’t spend our lives being subordinated by someone we don’t want to obey. I think we should bet on our future. Build our life from the fundamentals to get what we want. And (here comes Einstein) never stop questioning, always asking “why?”. We exist to understand.

    I hope my answers are focused enough.

    You may need some test results: In almost all the tests I scored as LII. Sometimes as ILI. I did the SOLTI-160 twice scoring as LII, but it looks like I'm constructivist (the only Reinin dichotomy I don't fit at all). Also, I'm an Enneagram 5 and in the Big 5 I have low Extraversion, high Openness, low/average Agreeableness, high Conscentiousness and low Neuroticism.
    Last edited by User Name; 05-25-2017 at 07:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Tell me about yourself.
    I’m Alex, 16 years old and I’m from Italy. Yeah, such a beautiful country.

    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
    I’m attending a scientific lyceum, 10th grade. At the moment I’m studying for my IGCSE exams (Mathematics, Physics, Geography, Biology, English). Let’s say I like most of the subjects, but I really can’t stand the Italian school method. I’d rather build my own school where students learn what they want, instead of covering too many areas in a usless and overly-superficial way. I don't like subjects like History. Italian culture is strongly funded on its past and I find pretty meaningless to study all those facts twice (1st/8th grade and 9th/13th grade). One time is enough. For me school is quite easy. Always As and some Bs with not much effort. I like it when a topic is challenging, that's why I spend more times on the subjects I am least comfortable with.

    What are your values, and why?
    Live and let die. I don’t care about others’ thoughts on me and my actions. I just let them speak and say what they want. My friends always tell me I’m honest and humble. If I know the truth I always speak up. I never criticize others for their ideas even if I know they’re wrong. I don’t like to embarrass people: I just want anything to be quiet and normal. Don’t bother me and I won’t bother you. I hate when people try to get what they want by cheating. It's just not meritocratic and not logical.

    What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
    My day is pretty normal and I tend to see my life in week patterns. Studying aside (which takes me often less than 2 hours and a half), I spend my time at home, alone. I have a LOT of hobbies. First of all: Music. I love listening, playing and composing music. I play the bass, the violin and the drums and I always find myself drumming my fingers on the desk. This means I always have a piece of music in my head. Maybe due to this strong influence, I have perfect pitch and it’s so cool (but annoying at times). I can recognize any musical note, like a car horn, a bell, a beep. I also have eidetic memory: I can easily remember (by visualizing information in my mind) the tracklist of an album, the length of a song or the pages of an assignment. As you can see, I’m interested in personality typing (since 23/12/2015, I love dates) and I like anything which can be synthetized with a scheme, a map or a classification. Another hobby: thinking. Yeah, the core of my daytime. I always analyze things and I think it’s what I do most of the time. I’m also obsessed with time, counting days. On my phone I have a day counter with all my important life events (both since and until). For example, by looking at it, today I can say I've lived 5844 days. Going out with people is not one of my hobby. I prefer staying alone, spending time doing whatever my mind tells/suggests me to do. I also like writing poems since poetry is an art based on rhythm. I am an hardcore Green Day, Muse and Ramones fan. So hardcore that I spent the whole autumn/winter 2016 interpreting, forecasting and recording the positions of 2016/2017 Green Day singles in the US music charts.
    It's not an hobby, but on the 14th of January I went to a Green Day concert. I don't like loud and crowded places. The list would go on (collecting things, such as stones, coins, postcards, stamps, reading lots of interesting things on the internet and things like that).

    Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
    I am cold most of the times. I never display any emotional gesture and I feel embarrassed when so. When I am with a close friend, or talking about topics I like, I completely change my attitude, becoming very open. I am reserved and I HATE working in groups. Individuality must be awarded. As I said, I never go out with friends, but at school I have a peaceful yet detached relation with them. There is an inverse proportionality between my analytical behaviour and the level of friendliness I have with someone: the more I know a person the less I analyze him/her.

    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
    In both cases: someone to discuss with. I want nothing else. Just someone to have a good intellectual exchange with. I don’t give a shit about appearence.

    What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?
    I always have problems for being too honest. Sometimes I say things that should not be said, then I bite my tounge off. I just can’t stand two-faced people who aren’t fair with themselves and others. Also, I happen to have arguments with friends who don’t follow the logics and deny the truth in front of my eyes. Although I may have this kind of problems, they are very unlikely to happen more than once a month. I’m usually a person who does his own business. I don’t care about others.

    How would your friends describe you?
    Aloof, silent, genius (ok, I often say they exaggerate here), detached, organized, funny (weird sense of humor), phlegmatic (they are envious of my “never-anxious attitude”). They always come to me to exercise for tests, oral tests or philosophical question. They say "you are an oracle", meaning that they can rely on my information. I'm happy about that but I don't think it's fair to treat me this way. My help is not for any kind of emotional support. I'm not good at that. Unless I have to calm down someone.

    What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    I’m quick to do anything (study in a little), they are always surprised when I calculate things fast in my mind (like square roots) or I remember dates ecc. Some say I am very good at sketching things and writing poems. Personally, I like my perfectionism: doing things giving my 100%. My willpower is one of my main traits. If I want it then I can do it. Also, ideas, ideas, ideas. My mind is always full of random ideas which may never have a practical use. I often try to exploit them and most of the time it’s a success. School is the main place where I share those ideas. This may be the reason why I have a good impression on teachers, who define me “creative”. Friends also say I have a good rethoric and like to have "inspiring" conversations, as they say, with me. I'm always punctual, often arriving at the meeting point very early (15/20 minutes before).

    What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
    I’m intransigent and stubborn. I like to do things my own way and it takes a lot of time before I can trust someone, after having analyzed his words and actions for days. Consequently, I’m not so adaptable in difficult situations (I consider it my greatest weakness). My friends also say I’m too unemotional. They’d like me to spend more of my time with them. I put too little effort on my appearence (ordinary clothes, ordinary haircut, ordinary shoes) but health is one of my main concerns. I’m not good at respecting authority. There is no problem if I agree with your way of thinking, but if you want me to respect meaningless rules just because “you want it”, don’t expect me to be mild. I can become rebellious and defensive when my principles are not respected. In the end, they say I’m too precise. I am pedantic when I see grammar and numerical mistakes, inaccurate layouts, correcting others not because “I want to criticize you”, but because “I care”. I hate to repeat things.

    In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
    I am VERY indipendent. Since 1st grade I haven’t had any need for help (homework, time managing, money managing) by anyone. At times, it can even annoy me being helped when I already know how to do something. Usually I am the one who helps (even if I’m not the most altruistic person on this planet). Looking in depth, though, I need help in some areas, such as the emotional field. I need someone helping me to become more trustful, gragarious and willing to take more risks.

    What things do you find to be a chore? What things do you enjoy more than others?
    I don’t like studying boring topics or being forced to read “this book”. For example, now I’m answering all these questions and I find this activity quite boring. Also, listening to some of my teachers’ lessons/monologues. I prefer an interactive lession with questions and active participation (I might be a declarer type). In fact, when given the opportunity to present some of my new ideas to the class (secret alphabets, how to create your signature, how to analyze a country using charts only and shit like that), I like my classmates to interact and ask other things. What do I enjoy more than others? Thinking, obviously.

    What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?
    I want to become a statistician. Numbers, data, charts, graphs, tables. That’s my world. I think it’s always been clear to me. I just have to work hard to accomplish my goal and, at times, it’s scary to think about faliure. Besides this, I’d also like to become a music producer. Money is not important to me: I just need to do what I like.

    If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
    “Rock all night, think all day”. I’d buy a recording studio on an isolated mountain with thousands of instruments from all the world, entire discographies of my favorite artists (also classical music, Beethoven and Vivaldi are my myths) and spend the rest of my life playing and inventing music, also analyzing relationships beetween mathematics and music. Interdisciplinarity is important to me. I’d jump from observing the universe with a mega-telescope to write a novel about the first thing that comes to mind. Rest? Nah, I don’t have time for that.

    What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?
    I like order. At times my desk can be a mess, but I know I’ll tidy up soon. I love putting things in order (when I have time, I have to do it WELL). My room is very ordinary, as you could expect. A 1000 pieces puzzle of a ship on one side, my drowing of “The Resistance” artwork [the Muse album (Origin of Symmetry is better, though, it’s pure genius)]. On my wardrobe, a poster of the band I play in. Talkin’ about daily chores: well, I don’t say I like routine. It’s quite boring and repetitive. But in makes me feel comfortable. I need structure but I don’t like it. It’s strange to think about it.

    How do you behave around strangers?
    That’s an easy one. I am silent, with a predictable robotic respect of social norms (I have to mantain my reputation). Never start a conversation. If one asks me something though, I always try to respond in a soft way.

    How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
    I like arguments. I often take part in an argument for the sake of exercise my logical thought. But when in serious conflict, I try to isolate myself and do something else, acting like I am superior to the other person. If someone insults me (very rare, I don’t know why) I always find a way to counterattack him. My sense of humor helps me to do that. If the problem with that person persists, then I actvate my “don’t-give-a-shit mode”. Useful all of the times.

    What is one common misconception that people have? Explain why it is wrong.
    “For you everything is easy”. I can’t quantify how I hate this sentence. Just because I’m good at school they think I’m “God” (oh, just so that you know, I’m agnostic). They always compare their performance to mine to see if they did well. What a useless method. I make mistakes and I’m happy about it.

    What did you do last Friday?
    School, homework, 2 hours of bass, swimming pool and TV. Fantastic, don't you think?

    Who do you admire, and why?
    People who do what they want to do. It doesn’t matter who they are, if they’re rich or poor, famous or unknown, powerful or not. They accomplished their biggest goal.

    What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?

    As said, I am an agnostic. The existence of God can’t be neither proven nor disproven. I need more information. This said, I think that clergy is something wrong. We don't need it. Faith is something else.

    What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?

    Politics? No, I don’t care about it. Power is not something I seek.

    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
    I like to work with people that do what should be done. I can’t stand incompetence, inaccuracy and distraction during a work group. This is the main reason why my teachers always give me the “leader” role, even though I don’t like it that much. I don’t want to control people. Efficiency? Yes, but ideas first. Original is better than ordinary. When I am the leader I give assignments to every member of the group, that will share his work in a second moment with others.

    What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
    Mathematics. I don’t know why. Maybe because is the one that I struggle the most with. A love/hate relationship.

    How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
    I am very dutiful. “Work first, then play” is one of my mottos. When I have not completed an assignement I feel guilty. If I am not prepared, though, I love improvising and it always results in something good. From others I expect competence, collaboration and creativity (my CCC rule).

    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    First of all I don’t think I’ll have a child. But if so, then I’d be not very strict with him. I’d let him explore and understand the world, fulfilling any of his curiosities. I’d try not to influence him with my point of view and help him only when he really needs it. I don’t know if it’s the right way, but that’s how I would do it.

    What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
    We only live once. We can’t spend our lives being subordinated by someone we don’t want to obey. I think we should bet on our future. Build our life from the fundamentals to get what we want. And (here comes Einstein) never stop questioning, always asking “why?”. We exist to understand.

    I hope my answers are focused enough.

    You may need some test results: In almost all the tests I scored as LII. Sometimes as ILI. I did the SOLTI-160 twice scoring as LII, but it looks like I'm constructivist (the only Reinin dichotomy I don't fit at all). Also, I'm an Enneagram 5 and in the Big 5 I have low Extraversion, high Openness, low/average Agreeableness, high Conscentiousness and low Neuroticism.
    Thank you, this is helpful.

    The most obvious point here is weak Fe: "I always have problems for being too honest. Sometimes I say things that should not be said, then I bite my tounge off."

    This is very much characteristic of weak and cautious Fe (aka 1D Fe where one is pretty much oblivious to it). The strong Ti is also obvious, there are tons of examples.

    However, there are recurring Se themes here too:

    "I am very dutiful. “Work first, then play” is one of my mottos."
    "I like to do things my own way and it takes a lot of time before I can trust someone, after having analyzed his words and actions for days."
    "If someone insults me (very rare, I don’t know why) I always find a way to counterattack him."
    "I am VERY indipendent. Since 1st grade I haven’t had any need for help (homework, time managing, money managing) by anyone. At times, it can even annoy me being helped when I already know how to do something. Usually I am the one who helps (even if I’m not the most altruistic person on this planet)."

    To summarize: you seem to be a diligent, organized, but also suspicious person.

    I think you should look into LSI. Even ILI may be more likely than LII.

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    Thank you.
    Now I know for sure I am a Ti dominant type. That's why I think I'm not an ILI, also because I'm not interested in business or money.
    I don't think I can relate to the LSI that much. I'm not so confrontational and I don't seek power. For example, when being a leader in group activities I don't try to make everyone work. If someone doesn't want to I just let him do, as long as he is quiet. I can not criticize people easily and I don't put effort in my appearance. Also, LSI should mean Ne PoLR, but my Ne is not low. I have never scored as LSI in any test. What do you think? Other thoughts anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Thank you.
    Now I know for sure I am a Ti dominant type. That's why I think I'm not an ILI, also because I'm not interested in business or money.
    Not all ILIs are interested in business or money, there are other manifestations of out there.

    I don't think I can relate to the LSI that much. I'm not so confrontational and I don't seek power. For example, when being a leader in group activities I don't try to make everyone work. If someone doesn't want to I just let him do, as long as he is quiet. I can not criticize people easily and I don't put effort in my appearance. Also, LSI should mean Ne PoLR, but my Ne is not low.
    Yes, those are fair points.

    One thing to keep in mind though, LIIs have valued Fe and Si as well as Ti and Ne. What this means is that they seek out atmospheres and people that make them feel good and allow the free expression and exchange of ideas and thoughts in a lighthearted exploratory way. What you mentioned about intellectual exchange does seem to be in line with this.

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    Yes, I always try to be with people who encourage me to express my opinion and ideas freely. When with someone I don't know very well or who doesn't share my same interests I can be reserved and not eager to share any of my thoughts. I can relate to Alpha Quadra.

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    I'm going to post you some of my recent test results.

    This is the SOLTI-160:

    Screenshot (76).png

    Screenshot (77).png

    As you can see, LII > ILI > ILE > LIE > LSI.

    Talking about sociotype.com, I got LII-0/INTj (with ILE, ILI and IEE as other choices). My quadras were:

    Alpha: 30, Beta: 22, Gamma: 19, Delta: 29.

    On the socionics.com Socionics Type Assistant (as well as the Turbo XL) I scored INTj in both modes, with an average scoring factor of 0.86.

    It looks like I'm a LII from the tests. I still have doubts though.

    My Ti is high, consequently my Fe is low. This puts me in the LxI/IxTj family. I value Ne more than Se. Does anyone has other ideas. Please I need them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    I'm going to post you some of my recent test results.

    This is the SOLTI-160:

    Screenshot (76).png

    Screenshot (77).png

    As you can see, LII > ILI > ILE > LIE > LSI.

    Talking about sociotype.com, I got LII-0/INTj (with ILE, ILI and IEE as other choices). My quadras were:

    Alpha: 30, Beta: 22, Gamma: 19, Delta: 29.

    On the socionics.com Socionics Type Assistant (as well as the Turbo XL) I scored INTj in both modes, with an average scoring factor of 0.86.

    It looks like I'm a LII from the tests. I still have doubts though.

    My Ti is high, consequently my Fe is low. This puts me in the LxI/IxTj family. I value Ne more than Se. Does anyone has other ideas. Please I need them.


    Tadaaaah IEE at your service. People asking for ideas are my favorites. <3 Here are some options for further development.

    Filatova's cards for some more fun and a novel method.
    More novel things: Sociotypograph.
    Another test.
    Browse through this thread (also look into criticism of the questionnaire there).
    Last edited by Chae; 05-26-2017 at 02:52 PM.

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    Every quadra's values sound relatable on paper if presented the right way. To decide between alpha and gamma, or more specifically LII and ILI, find some ESEs and SEEs and figure out if you prefer getting hit by an Fe or Se freight train.

    As for your Ne/Se question, you seem to exhibit more Se than what is typically seen in LIIs, but I consider it normal if you are the inert subtype.
    SP/SX
    5w4

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    Thank you for your responses and resources.

    @Chae, I've taken the Filatova's cards test: I stuck with one card, which I could easily relate to, and it came out to be the LII one. Talking about the Sociotypograph, I prefer all the LIIs dichotomies, but the emotivist/constructivist one. I do think I'm a constructivist type. But the main (Jungian) dichotomies were Introvert, Intuitive, Logical and Rational, so, again, LII. For the functions questionnaire (which I don't think it's completely accurate) I scored very high , followed by high and , average and and low , and .
    My real question is: do you think I have as my creative function? I mean, can you understand it by looking at my writing style (considering the fact that I'm not English native speaker). You are an IEE, so I hope you can help me.

    @Syynth, I'd be more confortable with , by far. I feel that I like ESEs more than SEEs.

    Also, what happened to Wikisocion, if anyone knows, I can't open that anymore...
    Edit: It's alright, just typed wikisocion.net instead of wikisocion.org and it worked.

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    @User Name Imma go through your questionnaire first, didn't observe you so far.

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    First Part (had to divide since I used too many element symbols):



    Tell me about yourself.
    I’m Alex, 16 years old and I’m from Italy. Yeah, such a beautiful country ().

    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
    I’m attending a scientific lyceum, 10th grade. At the moment I’m studying for my IGCSE exams (Mathematics, Physics, Geography, Biology, English). Let’s say I like most of the subjects, but I really can’t stand the Italian school method (, ). I’d rather build my own school where students learn what they want, instead of covering too many areas in a useless and overly-superficial way (, ). I don't like subjects like History. Italian culture is strongly funded on its past and I find pretty meaningless to study all those facts twice (1st/8th grade and 9th/13th grade) (, , ). One time is enough (, ). For me school is quite easy (). Always As and some Bs with not much effort (). I like it when a topic is challenging (), that's why I spend more times on the subjects I am least comfortable with (, ).


    What are your values, and why?
    Live and let die ( ). I don’t care about others’ thoughts on me and my actions ( >). I just let them speak and say what they want (). My friends always tell me I’m honest and humble (, , >). If I know the truth I always speak up (). I never criticize others for their ideas even if I know they’re wrong (, ). I don’t like to embarrass people: I just want anything to be quiet and normal ( > ). Don’t bother me and I won’t bother you (). I hate when people try to get what they want by cheating (, , devalued ). It's just not meritocratic and not logical ().

    What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
    My day is pretty normal and I tend to see my life in week patterns (,). Studying aside (which takes me often less than 2 hours and a half), I spend my time at home, alone (, and ?). I have a LOT of hobbies (). First of all: Music. I love listening, playing and composing music (,). I play the bass, the violin and the drums and I always find myself drumming my fingers on the desk (?). This means I always have a piece of music in my head. Maybe due to this strong influence, I have perfect pitch and it’s so cool (but annoying at times) ( ). I can recognize any musical note, like a car horn, a bell, a beep (). I also have eidetic memory: I can easily remember (by visualizing information in my mind) the tracklist of an album, the length of a song or the pages of an assignment (). As you can see, I’m interested in personality typing (since 23/12/2015, I love dates) and I like anything which can be synthetized with a scheme, a map or a classification (, , , ). Another hobby: thinking (). Yeah, the core of my daytime (). I always analyze things and I think it’s what I do most of the time (, ). I’m also obsessed with time, counting days (). On my phone I have a day counter with all my important life events (both since and until) (). For example, by looking at it, today I can say I've lived 5844 days. Going out with people is not one of my hobby. I prefer staying alone, spending time doing whatever my mind tells/suggests me to do. I also like writing poems since poetry is an art based on rhythm (, ). I am an hardcore Green Day, Muse and Ramones fan ( bands). So hardcore that I spent the whole autumn/winter 2016 interpreting, forecasting and recording the positions of 2016/2017 Green Day singles in the US music charts ().
    It's not an hobby, but on the 14th of January I went to a Green Day concert (). I don't like loud and crowded places (devalued ). The list would go on (collecting things, such as stones, coins, postcards, stamps, reading lots of interesting things on the internet and things like that) (, ).

    Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
    I am cold most of the times (, > ). I never display any emotional gesture and I feel embarrassed when so (devalued ). When I am with a close friend, or talking about topics I like, I completely change my attitude, becoming very open (). I am reserved and I HATE working in groups (> ). Individuality must be awarded (,). As I said, I never go out with friends, but at school I have a peaceful yet detached relation with them (, > ). There is an inverse proportionality between my analytical behaviour and the level of friendliness I have with someone: the more I know a person the less I analyze him/her ( > ).

    At this point I am extremely confident you're PoLR.

    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
    In both cases: someone to discuss with. I want nothing else. Just someone to have a good intellectual exchange with. I don’t give a shit about appearence ( >).

    What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?
    I always have problems for being too honest (). Sometimes I say things that should not be said, then I bite my tounge off ( > ). I just can’t stand two-faced people who aren’t fair with themselves and others (, ). Also, I happen to have arguments with friends who don’t follow the logics and deny the truth in front of my eyes (, , ). Although I may have this kind of problems, they are very unlikely to happen more than once a month (). I’m usually a person who does his own business. I don’t care about others. ( > )

    How would your friends describe you?
    Aloof, silent, genius (ok, I often say they exaggerate here), detached, organized, funny (weird sense of humor), phlegmatic (they are envious of my “never-anxious attitude”) ( >:Fe). They always come to me to exercise for tests, oral tests or philosophical question (). They say "you are an oracle" (), meaning that they can rely on my information (). I'm happy about that but I don't think it's fair to treat me this way ( >). My help is not for any kind of emotional support ( PoLR again). I'm not good at that (). Unless I have to calm down someone ().

    What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    I’m quick to do anything (study in a little), they are always surprised when I calculate things fast in my mind (like square roots) or I remember dates ecc (, , ). Some say I am very good at sketching things and writing poems (? ). Personally, I like my perfectionism: doing things giving my 100% (). My willpower is one of my main traits (). If I want it then I can do it (). Also, ideas, ideas, ideas (). My mind is always full of random ideas which may never have a practical use (, ). I often try to exploit them and most of the time it’s a success (,). School is the main place where I share those ideas (). This may be the reason why I have a good impression on teachers, who define me “creative” (, ). Friends also say I have a good rethoric and like to have "inspiring" conversations, as they say, with me (). I'm always punctual, often arriving at the meeting point very early (15/20 minutes before) ().

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    Second Part:

    What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
    Iím intransigent and stubborn (). I like to do things my own way and it takes a lot of time before I can trust someone, after having analyzed his words and actions for days ( ). Consequently, Iím not so adaptable in difficult situations (I consider it my greatest weakness) (). My friends also say Iím too unemotional ( PoLR). Theyíd like me to spend more of my time with them (). I put too little effort on my appearence (ordinary clothes, ordinary haircut, ordinary shoes) but health is one of my main concerns (). Iím not good at respecting authority (devalued ). There is no problem if I agree with your way of thinking, but if you want me to respect meaningless rules just because ďyou want itĒ, donít expect me to be mild ( >, ). I can become rebellious and defensive when my principles are not respected (, . In the end, they say Iím too precise (). I am pedantic when I see grammar and numerical mistakes, inaccurate layouts, correcting others not because ďI want to criticize youĒ, but because ďI careĒ (, ). I hate to repeat things (,).

    In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
    I am VERY indipendent. Since 1st grade I havenít had any need for help (homework, time managing, money managing) by anyone (,). At times, it can even annoy me being helped when I already know how to do something (). Usually I am the one who helps (even if Iím not the most altruistic person on this planet) (, ). Looking in depth, though, I need help in some areas, such as the emotional field (). I need someone helping me to become more trustful, gregarious and willing to take more risks (, , ).

    As far as I can tell, ILI > SLI. The person you need is the SEE.

    What things do you find to be a chore? What things do you enjoy more than others?
    I donít like studying boring topics or being forced to read ďthis bookĒ (, , , ). For example, now Iím answering all these questions and I find this activity quite boring (). Also, listening to some of my teachersí lessons/monologues. I prefer an interactive lession with questions and active participation (I might be a declarer type) (. ). In fact, when given the opportunity to present some of my new ideas to the class (secret alphabets, how to create your signature, how to analyze a country using charts only and shit like that), I like my classmates to interact and ask other things (,,. ). What do I enjoy more than others? Thinking, obviously ().

    What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?
    I want to become a statistician. Numbers, data, charts, graphs, tables. Thatís my world (). I think itís always been clear to me (, ). I just have to work hard to accomplish my goal and (, ), at times, itís scary to think about faliure (, ). Besides this, Iíd also like to become a music producer (?). Money is not important to me: I just need to do what I like (, ).

    If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
    ďRock all night, think all dayĒ (, , ). Iíd buy a recording studio on an isolated mountain with thousands of instruments from all the world, entire discographies of my favorite artists (also classical music, Beethoven and Vivaldi are my myths) and spend the rest of my life playing and inventing music, also analyzing relationships beetween mathematics and music (, , ). Interdisciplinarity is important to me. Iíd jump from observing the universe with a mega-telescope to write a novel about the first thing that comes to mind (). Rest? Nah, I donít have time for that. ( )

    What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?
    I like order ( or ). At times my desk can be a mess, but I know Iíll tidy up soon (, ). I love putting things in order (when I have time, I have to do it WELL) (, ). My room is very ordinary, as you could expect (). A 1000 pieces puzzle of a ship on one side, my drowing of ďThe ResistanceĒ artwork [the Muse album (Origin of Symmetry is better, though, itís pure genius)] (). On my wardrobe, a poster of the band I play in. Talkiní about daily chores: well, I donít say I like routine ( ). Itís quite boring and repetitive (,). But in makes me feel comfortable (:Si). I need structure but I donít like it (>). Itís strange to think about it (, ).

    How do you behave around strangers?
    Thatís an easy one. I am silent, with a predictable robotic respect of social norms (I have to mantain my reputation) (, ). Never start a conversation (rejected //). If one asks me something though, I always try to respond in a soft way ().

    How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
    I like arguments (). I often take part in an argument for the sake of exercise my logical thought (, ). But when in serious conflict, I try to isolate myself and do something else, acting like I am superior to the other person (). If someone insults me (very rare, I donít know why ()) I always find a way to counterattack him (). My sense of humor helps me to do that. If the problem with that person persists, then I activate my ďdonít-give-a-shit modeĒ (, ). Useful all of the times ().

    What is one common misconception that people have? Explain why it is wrong.
    ďFor you everything is easyĒ (). I canít quantify how I hate this sentence (). Just because Iím good at school they think Iím ďGodĒ (oh, just so that you know, Iím agnostic). They always compare their performance to mine to see if they did well (). What a useless method (). I make mistakes and Iím happy about it.

    What did you do last Friday?
    School, homework, 2 hours of bass, swimming pool and TV. Fantastic, don't you think? (, , )

    Who do you admire, and why?
    People who do what they want to do (). It doesnít matter who they are, if theyíre rich or poor, famous or unknown, powerful or not (). They accomplished their biggest goal ().

    What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?

    As said, I am an agnostic. The existence of God canít be neither proven nor disproven (). I need more information (). This said, I think that clergy is something wrong (). We don't need it (). Faith is something else.

    What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?

    Politics? No, I donít care about it (). Power is not something I seek (low ).

    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
    I like to work with people that do what should be done (). I canít stand incompetence, inaccuracy and distraction during a work group (, , > ). This is the main reason why my teachers always give me the ďleaderĒ role, even though I donít like it that much (). I donít want to control people (low ). Efficiency ()? Yes, but ideas first (). Original is better than ordinary (). When I am the leader I give assignments to every member of the group (), that will share his work in a second moment with others ().

    What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
    Mathematics (). I donít know why. Maybe because is the one that I struggle the most with (). A love/hate relationship ().

    How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
    I am very dutiful (). ďWork first, then playĒ is one of my mottos ( > , ). When I have not completed an assignement I feel guilty (). If I am not prepared, though, I love improvising and it always results in something good (, ). From others I expect competence, collaboration and creativity (my CCC rule) (, , + ).

    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    First of all I donít think Iíll have a child (). But if so, then Iíd be not very strict with him (). Iíd let him explore and understand the world, fulfilling any of his curiosities (). Iíd try not to influence him with my point of view and help him only when he really needs it (, ). I donít know if itís the right way, but thatís how I would do it ().

    What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
    We only live once (). We canít spend our lives being subordinated by someone we donít want to obey (). I think we should bet on our future (). Build our life from the fundamentals to get what we want (). And (here comes Einstein) never stop questioning, always asking ďwhy?Ē (). We exist to understand ().

    I hope my answers are focused enough ().

    You may need some test results (): In almost all the tests I scored as LII. Sometimes as ILI. I did the SOLTI-160 twice scoring as LII, but it looks like I'm constructivist (the only Reinin dichotomy I don't fit at all). Also, I'm an Enneagram 5 and in the Big 5 I have low Extraversion, high Openness, low/average Agreeableness, high Conscentiousness and low Neuroticism.





    *SEE-Fi Elvis gasping*

    INTp-Te all the way. LII is out the door, you focus so much on Te-Fi. The latter is especially pronounced, hidden agenda going hard. You totally reject Fe. Si isn't trying too much unless one asks for talents aka Ne, heh, the opposite end. LII would really overdo it the way you handle Fi. Se awareness is there but the element is weak, Ni purpose and time assessment is completely natural unlike logics which are demonstrative and also appear with strongly valued business logic. Too much Ne use to be SLI but expressive emotion aka Fe is the weakest and most hated point, not Se force, so ILI. Since you're the logical subtype, Fe is especially dependent on help and suppressed. The complementary person you request does not value Si comfort so ESE is not your dual congruently. You appreciate Se all over the place and acknowledge Fe when it comes with that, and Fi of course. The reason why you probably mistyped is that Fi is the strongest function in the logical subtype of ILI.

    Now @handjob come pick up your new ILI dual friend

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    Wow, thank you. That's a lot to read. I prefer to find another moment to do it in a proper way. Again, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Wow, thank you. That's a lot to read. I prefer to find another moment to do it in a proper way. Again, thanks.
    Aweh Take your time dear, I'm around okay You're welcome (to the forum in particular)!


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    That's a great analysis! It all makes sense. I'm a bit confused though, I have a few questions:

    - How come I tested so many times (and not just once or twice for example) as LII. I mean, I thought I was pretty much Rational > Irrational;
    - Where did my go? I've always thought it was my leading one;
    - What are my most obvious traits? It looks like I still misinterpret this function.

    Now I'm going to read some ILI-Te descriptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    That's a great analysis! It all makes sense. I'm a bit confused though, I have a few questions:

    - How come I tested so many times (and not just once or twice for example) as LII. I mean, I thought I was pretty much Rational > Irrational;
    - Where did my go? I've always thought it was my leading one;
    - What are my most obvious traits? It looks like I still misinterpret this function.

    Now I'm going to read some ILI-Te descriptions.
    1. Define what you perceive as rational/irrational. Even if it happened many times, doesn't mean it's correct. I can punch you 3 or 10 times, that doesn't make it right.

    2. It hides behind Te. It's very strong in the questionnaire but you don't value it. If a test asks you for Ti you will answer with it, and since it's strong, it will have maximum impact. But this questionnaire asks how functions are intertwined. Which a normal test often fails to do, they merely target and measure isolated information elements. Here, it showed up "coupled" the way it works in reality. You always use business logic before system logic even if the latter is potent. Both Ti and Te show up in logical types but what's preferred makes the difference.

    3. The way you measure periods of time. You know how often something occurs, how long it lasts, what result there will be (that also indicates it's working with Te), what purpose something has, what can be predicted, what important life events there are, what could fail, what you'll do soon, how you have to invest your time, what you'd do for the rest of your life, what goal to set, what characterizes your daily life schedule, remembering dates (!! man, this was extremely striking in the questionnaire, I mean...), what repetition occurs, what comes first and comes later, when to wait, asking "why" (purpose again), betting on the future, punctuality, how things date back, how many times you have to do something (doing = also Te), detecting time patterns, independence aka having your own vision, observing a person over several days, being an `oracleī, knowing how something evolves.

    On the opposite end, since Ni always needs Se, you require: hard work, can-do attitude, busy interaction, people who know what they want and don't fuss over how they compare to others since they are already confident in succeeding, achievement, force, argumentativeness, someone who acquires power and control to back you up since you don't want it yourself, high assertive energy - look at the bands you listen to, risk-taking, effort/strength calculation, awareness of superiority aspects, someone to detect and counter your stubbornness/rebellion/defensiveness, a person who can make you like and do something yet also being fair in competition (Fi). Otherwise, force will not work on you. You request somebody who gives 100% like you, a person who likes challenge and struggle and also champions it, someone who seizes what they want like you, who creates things they want when something is wrong (Fi) instead. You will only find this type of vigilante justice in a Ti PoLR type, SEE in this case. ESE would never disobey the set rigid rules and standards, they need it. SEE does whatever the hell they want, especially when their principles are offended. You share the same mentality so the "comfort and abiding > strength and individual moral" type LII isn't a feasible typing, no discussion.

    Come on this is the most Se music ever you can't fight it


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    Thank you again, you're making it so clear (I think I'll never be able to truly type someone, me included). So, I loved your description and now I'm far more confident about it. You're right: I use it very frequently in my life, as you pointed out. You know, I've read about the Rational/Irrational dichotomy again and I don't seem to have a strong preference for j anymore.

    One last thing: by looking at my questionnaire, do you think I am an INTJ in MBTI or could I be something else?

    Edit: Yeah, you're completely right about Survival. And it's even one of my favorite songs!

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Thank you again, you're making it so clear (I think I'll never be able to truly type someone, me included). So, I loved your description and now I'm far more confident about it. You're right: I use it very frequently in my life, as you pointed out. You know, I've read about the Rational/Irrational dichotomy again and I don't seem to have a strong preference for j anymore.

    One last thing: by looking at my questionnaire, do you think I am an INTJ in MBTI or could I be something else?

    Edit: Yeah, you're completely right about Survival. And it's even one of my favorite songs!
    Chu <3 Don't worry, this forum will literally force you to learn it I used to be where you are now, it's a matter of what you do in between to make the difference. See how you are being ILI right now? You need a whole lot of volitional Se pressure to erase your future worries. I'm glad you loved it and feel confident. Good, because your overall approach doesn't seem very rational in the socionics sense, albeit rational in the common sense. That's why you're the logical subtype to strike a balance there.

    I highly disapprove of MBTI (so do the people here) hence I didn't pay attention, I forgot the function definitions anyway after learning about socionics.

    Yep. I like it as well It's a very Enneagram 3 hymn. I suspect your dual is SEE 3w2 because of that, or at least that would be your preference. It's an odd combination since you're a 5 but still, pretty interesting. Guess that's it at least for now, need help with something else on the forum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name
    LII, do you agree?
    Yes, I do agree.

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    It's ok for now. By the way I think my indecision will make doubts arise quite soon. Especially considering that I always misinterpret Socionics because I compare it to MBTI. That's why I feel like I won't be able to type anyone.

    It's still astonishing the way I constantly mistyped with LII. Maybe because I don't know the main differences.

    Some days ago I thought you could get your Socio-type by simply changing the last letter of the code (j/p), or by considering the leading function only. You showed me it's no way like this. It's time to stop taking boring tests and to start learning the theory by myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    It's ok for now. By the way I think my indecision will make doubts arise quite soon. Especially considering that I always misinterpret Socionics because I compare it to MBTI. That's why I feel like I won't be able to type anyone.

    It's still astonishing the way I constantly mistyped with LII. Maybe because I don't know the main differences.

    Some days ago I thought you could get your Socio-type by simply changing the last letter of the code (j/p), or by considering the leading function only. You showed me it's no way like this. It's time to stop taking boring tests and to start learning the theory by myself.
    Hehe cute! <3 It's the nature of so it's natural (if you were LII things would be clear-cut to you by now, Socionics itself is a very Ti-ish realm). After a while you can draw the distinction.

    That's why this site exists to help you understand Also look out to other people here.

    Ah, been there, done that. The two systems differ dramatically, so yes now you have to catch up on Gulenko & Co. first. Did you discover this? You can look up anything you like there.

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    I think you are LII too, based on your writing style (i see a lot of Ne -not in your questionnaire though- and very few Te -Te ignoring-, Ne is not often used by ILI and even more by LSI).

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Hi all, I'm new to this forum. My name's Alex and I'm from Italy (forgive me in advance for any grammar mistake I'll make).

    So, I've been investigating a lot to understand my MBTI best-fit type, but Socionics impressed me more than MBTI itself did. That's why I'm here and I hope you can help me clarifying my Socio-type.

    My first choice has always been LII. I think I have a very strong Ti, developed better than any other function. I like schemes, systems, classifications and I always find myself thinking about something in order to analyze it. For example, when I watch TV advertisements, I like to think about "why did they choose this character to make that certain advertisement" or "why did he say these words instead of saying something else", often trying to find the way I would have done it.

    When sticking to logic (especially in my class), sometimes people call me "cold" or "impassive", but they know I don't want to offend them in any way. It's like I always seek harmony but never expand it to others.

    Talking about Ne, I think school is the primary place where I need to use it. When copying with a long/boring assignment, or preparing for an oral test, you won't find me doing the conventional job (studying any single page), but I'd rather find a new way to face it: invent strange theories, apply systems to the subject, philosophize a lot. The other day, just to give you an idea, I had an Italian oral test. It was about "I Promessi Sposi" ("The Betrothed"), the famous novel. Instead of just telling the story of one chapter, I analyzed Renzo's feelings with the 5 emotions model of "Inside Out", by mixing two or more basic emotions. Due to these crazy ideas, my schoolmate say I'm a bit weird (but in a good way).

    My friends see me as reliable, often asking me about any kind of logical problem. If you ask them, they'd define me "perfectionist", "aloof" or just "smart". I don't have a constant out-of-school relashionship with them, but they kind of understand me and always respect me for my way of thinking.

    The greatest struggle was to find my point on the j/p (rational/irrational) dichotomy. I think I am a j. I'm organized, prepared (even though I love improvising) and not that adaptable in changing situations. I don't see myself moving to another country in just a few days. Also, I'm very punctual and early-starting. I always try to give my 100%, at times using strategies to increas my income with less effort.

    So what do you think? Am I a LII/INTj?
    Welcome to the forum.

    The j/p thing stressed me out a bit while I was trying reconcile socionics to MBTI type. I love my correlations. In the end I decided to keep the systems separate and I am fine with that. I feel like a mixture of MBTI INFJ/P since neither fit completely and I am pretty close on j/p.

    I think this is a good explanation of j/p in MBTI. http://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2015...-really-means/

    Let’s clear up some misconceptions

    A lot of people think that P types are disorganized or messy, and that J types are clean and neat. I want to get this out of the way now; the J or P preference is NO indicator of messiness or neatness. Both J and P types can be messy or disorganized. All the J or P letter at the end of your type means is that you show the world either your judging process or your perceiving process.

    Another misconception is that the ‘J’ for judging means ‘judgmental’. J types are no more judgmental than P types; judging simply refers to the decision-making process, and whether or not that decision-making process is shown to the outside world. J types extravert their decisions (judgments) while P types introvert their decisions (judgments).
    J (Judging) Personality Types

    If you are an IJ or EJ type, then your first extraverted function is a decision-making function (thinking or feeling).

    The decision-making functions are going to make the J personality type seem more decisive. They may seem to others to be better planners who like to have things ‘settled’ and organized. They probably prefer closure in their outer relationships, and they often like to have things decided and not ‘in limbo’. They often appear to be very task-oriented, and might like organizing their projects with to-do lists. Whether they are actually organized has nothing to do with their J/P preference, the J/P preference will only detail HOW the type likes to organize. Do they make their decisions through external interactions (talking, planning with lists and other external tools) or do they make their decisions through an internal, private process.

    Since the J preference only describes what someone shows to the OUTER world, they may internally feel very flexible, adaptable, and open to new information.

    Here is a link to socionics temperaments:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...8-Temperaments

    IJ temperament


    The IJ temperament, or balanced-stable temperament, was identified by Viktor Gulenko and includes the four rational introverts (one in each quadra): LII, LSI, ESI, and EII. Each of these types is also static.


    Typical characteristics:
    calm, balanced and inert
    "unflappable"
    rigid but not very fast gait
    may appear passive-aggressive
    usually very stable mood
    more reactive than active
    little inclination to fidget during long periods of inactivity
    IJs are both static and rational, so they see reality as mostly not changing and when it does, it's in abrupt "leaps" from one state to another. An IJ draws inner stability from a stable reality, especially as seen through his leading function. That makes him confident that things will probably remain as they are despite what he sees as minor disturbances; periods of clear upheaval are very disturbing and the individual is anxious that things will "settle down" one way or the other soon enough.


    As introverts, IJs tend to be calm and relaxed about initiating relationships with other people, mostly assuming that others will take the initiative, but will be more inclined to try to make sure a relationship is maintained once established.


    Perception of other temperaments:
    EP: IJs see EPs as unreliable, and too unpredictable in their impulses and initiatives.
    EJ: IJs see EJs as pleasantly energetic and willing to take the initiative and get things going in a balanced, constant way.
    IP: IJs see IPs as unreliable and unwilling to take any initiative, with too low levels of energy.
    IP temperament


    The IP temperament, or receptive-adaptive temperament, was identified by Viktor Gulenko and includes the four irrational introverts (one in each quadra): IEI, SEI, ILI, and SLI. Each of these types is also dynamic.


    Typical characteristics:
    relaxed
    go-with-the-flow
    movements are flexible, unhurried
    finds it easy to spend long periods of time in no activity, or at very low levels of energy
    little inclination towards fidgetiness when having to remain inactive for longer periods
    IPs are both dynamic and irrational, so they see reality as in continuous, gradual, often imperceptible change. An IP is soothed by this, seeing reality through his leading function. This leads to a relaxed inclination to take things as they come and adapt to them.


    As introverts, IPs tend to be relaxed and somewhat passive about initiating relationships with other people, mostly assuming that others will take the initiative.


    Perception of other temperaments:
    EP: IPs see EPs as pleasantly energetic in an unpredictable and therefore not boring way, also able to take for granted variations in levels of energy in others.
    EJ: IPs see EJs as annoyingly pushy and insistent in their initiatives; they may respect their energy levels but also wonder if they don't see that a lot of that energy is spent wastefully to no good purpose.
    IJ: IPs see IJs as boring and too concerned with stability.

    You can also check this out to get a basic idea.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-by-Functions

    Introduction to Ti


    Introverted logic is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Ti, L, structural logic, or white logic.


    Ti is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. It is like common sense, in that it builds on one's expectations of reality, through a somewhat personal, though explicable, understanding of general truths and how they are manifested.


    Types that value Ti naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They strongly prefer to make decisions based on their own experience and judgement, as opposed to relying on external authorities for knowledge, which they use only as a last resort. They also have respect for people with clearly defined and internally consistent opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, one's personal standards of truth are more reliable than public consensus.


    They see overly pragmatic views as shallow, and try to limit public discussion of mundane practical matters. They are especially sensitive to redundant information.


    Ti as Leading Function (LSI, LII)


    The individual views reality through the lens of logic, immediately recognizing the correctness and appropriateness of things and their proper place in reality and in his system of views and behavior. He freely makes logical assertions, often exaggerated, about new information and experience. He holds highest those rules to which exceptions do not exist, and is a habitual critic of people or things that don't follow a set of rules, whether they are those accepted by the community, or his own, or even the other person's. Although he is able to adopt others' rules, his own are always the last word, and these are subject to continual refinement. Often seen as "demanding", due to high standards.

    Introduction to Ni


    Introverted intuition is an introverted, irrational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Ni, T, temporal intuition, or white intuition. Ni is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, over-reliance on mental imagery, seeing intangible hints of trends and relationships between processes or objects. Types that value Ni always like to have in mind a specific plan for how things will develop in the future which is usually based on past trends that they deem likely to recur. To assess these trends they seek to gather information of what's has taken place and transverse the time axis backwards and forwards. Thus, they often devote little time for living "in the now" or "making the best of the present". They generally engage in pure leisure activities only for short periods of time, and even then their leisure activities generally involve mentally and psychologically demanding or competitive aspect.


    Ni as Leading Function (IEI, ILI)


    As a base function, Ni generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through mindful simulation of events, a person with leading Ni may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person becomes overly reliant on his mental simulations while disregarding attaining actual experience in areas that interest him, turning down opportunities without trying them out which leads to boredom. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events.
    Take your time sorting it. This is not a race.

    ďMy typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.Ē​ óC.G. Jung

     



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    Thank you for all your resources and links.

    I'm a bit confused. @Chae analysis is very accurate and relatable in a sense, but most of you still affirm I'm a LII.

    Why do you think I'm LII? What points of my questionnaire, according to you, show high and ? Does anyone think that more information about me is needed? Thanks in advance to anyone who will reply, but this theory it's driving me crazy, ending up thinking how I am "indecisive about indecision" or weird stuff like that.
    Last edited by User Name; 05-28-2017 at 02:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Thank you for all your resources and links.

    I'm a bit confused. @Chae analysis is very accurate and relatable in a sense, but most of you still affirm I'm a LII.

    Why do you think I'm LII? What points of my questionnaire, according to you, show high and ? Does anyone think that more information about me is needed? Thanks in advance to anyone who will reply, but this theory it's driving me crazy, ending up thinking how I am "indecisive about indecision" or weird stuff like that.
    If I am understanding your situation correctly, at this point you are stuck because you see Ne, Ni, Te and Ti within yourself. Rather than trying to determine what you value more, which can be tricky, I would advise you to look at the lower level functions and determine what you seek in a partner and what you don not value but are also bad at. Looking at the dual seeking functions should help you decide between LII and ILI.
    If you would, please share your thoughts on Si, Se, Fi, and Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rougerogue View Post
    If I am understanding your situation correctly, at this point you are stuck because you see Ne, Ni, Te and Ti within yourself. Rather than trying to determine what you value more, which can be tricky, I would advise you to look at the lower level functions and determine what you seek in a partner and what you don not value but are also bad at. Looking at the dual seeking functions should help you decide between LII and ILI.
    If you would, please share your thoughts on Si, Se, Fi, and Fe.
    : I don't think I have the ability to recognize physical states in others. Almost all the time I find myself constantly thinking or working, or both, so I can affirm that my mental process never stops. That's why I may have a hard time trying to do nothing (in a completely relaxed state). Therefore, my is surely not developed. Also, I don't value it, because I know I'll never reach such a state where pleasure and aesthetic (which I don't care about) are the fundamentals;

    : this function is far from what I am. I don't push people, apply pressure and seek power. But, as @Chae pointed out, I may have an unconscious need of it. This could explain my tendency to listen to music (Survival is the best example), or why I admire people who achieved their biggest goal in their lives, or even my (sometimes) hidden desire to go against the authority. My indecision may play an important role in this function, I don't know;

    : this is the function I understand the least. It's like I want relationships with others, but then I think about their negative aspects (I won't be able to make a relationship last, it may result in little time for my inner life) and I decide to give up trying. This might be the reason why I never go out with friends. It's like: "I'd really like it, butI never used to do that, so I'm scared to fail". It may sound strange, but I have just no other words to explain it in a decent way;

    : I like this function, but I know it's not my real attitude. I am always detached and aloof. For example, when I just try to hug someone, my friends act like: "It's a miracle!". Maybe just because I appear innatural. I never try to use it.

    Hope this is helpful. By the way, I'm becoming more and more confident in my typing as an ILI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    : I don't think I have the ability to recognize physical states in others. Almost all the time I find myself constantly thinking or working, or both, so I can affirm that my mental process never stops. That's why I may have a hard time trying to do nothing (in a completely relaxed state). Therefore, my is surely not developed. Also, I don't value it, because I know I'll never reach such a state where pleasure and aesthetic (which I don't care about) are the fundamentals;

    : this function is far from what I am. I don't push people, apply pressure and seek power. But, as @Chae pointed out, I may have an unconscious need of it. This could explain my tendency to listen to music (Survival is the best example), or why I admire people who achieved their biggest goal in their lives, or even my (sometimes) hidden desire to go against the authority. My indecision may play an important role in this function, I don't know;

    : this is the function I understand the least. It's like I want relationships with others, but then I think about their negative aspects (I won't be able to make a relationship last, it may result in little time for my inner life) and I decide to give up trying. This might be the reason why I never go out with friends. It's like: "I'd really like it, butI never used to do that, so I'm scared to fail". It may sound strange, but I have just no other words to explain it in a decent way;

    : I like this function, but I know it's not my real attitude. I am always detached and aloof. For example, when I just try to hug someone, my friends act like: "It's a miracle!". Maybe just because I appear innatural. I never try to use it.

    Hope this is helpful. By the way, I'm becoming more and more confident in my typing as an ILI.
    That is helpful. At least it helps to rule out LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    It's like I want relationships with others, but then I think about their negative aspects (I won't be able to make a relationship last, it may result in little time for my inner life) and I decide to give up trying. This might be the reason why I never go out with friends. It's like: "I'd really like it, but I never used to do that, so I'm scared to fail". It may sound strange, but I have just no other words to explain it in a decent way
    Precisely. This (red) is key mentality, and is still valued. Not strange at all, just how ILI thinks about the world. No need to be ashamed of or confused by caution, it just necessitates a vigorous and affectionate handling in reverse.

    So once more I noted suggestive . There's a subconscious expectation for someone to keep getting in your zone aggressively being confident in succeeding, while you help them out achieving more of a "time flow" inner state that cools them down, and make their energy applicable (). You already think long-term but predicted future failure causes hesitation. You require your time to be invested well and safely in a person who can establish a relationship easily, which happens though the -creative function of SEE. Productive is also needed in a partner since action and usefulness should contribute to your wish that it should work out. A non- - valuing person could not appreciate your constant preoccupation. That points to Gamma values and a counterpart that can not only put the thumbscrews on you to make you try, but also a relationship-savvy one.

    You also summed up the other elements helpfully, I liked those, too.
    Last edited by Chae; 05-29-2017 at 05:28 PM.

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    Thanks, it looks like it's another step toward ILI.

    I think it's useful to share my thoughts on the four functions left as well.

    : I've always understimated this functions, maybe due to the fact that I misunderstood it from the beginning. Anyway, I feel that it's strong but I kinda cannot percieve it all. It's like I often use it but I never understand WHEN I use it. is my world. I live in my mind, but I never "daydream" in the real sense of that. I can deeply think for hours but mainly about real things (related to the real world, mainly the past but also the future). Sometimes I enter weird loops. The greatest example: thinking about thinking. This is how one of my interior monologues looks like: "I'm thinking about thinking. Shit, I entered the loop! Let's try not to think about thinking" ... 2 seconds later ... "Wait! Did I just think about not thinking about thinking? Why do I always think? Yeah I'm so crazy." I hope you understand it.
    I don't know if it's on topic, but I love using metaphores everywhere. Also, I never lose the track of time. If you ask me what time it is, it's like I feel that is more or less that certain time. And with a little bit of luck I often guess it right.

    : my violin teacher defines me a "pragmatist". When I go to lessons I only bring what I REALLY need. For example, if I have to play the exercise no.4, I will not bring the whole music book. Just the page I need. Same as for studying. I study the most important parts only and then I try to fully exploit their potential.

    : I think that in my class there are a lot of IEE. Thus, I can say I live in a environment. There are aspects of this function that I like and dislike as well. At times I can be even envious about their innate ability to generate lots of ideas and to jump from topic to topic (which I can do, but I don't find it natural). But when it comes to finish things I arrive at the point to hate it. Example in 4 steps:
    1) I'm having a conversation about music with a leading friend;
    2) Something unexpected happens in the environment;
    3) My friend runs away to see what happened, completely forgetting about our conversation;
    4) I have no one to talk with now.
    Afterall, I like Ne a lot, but I don't feel it "mine". I wish though.

    : I thought it to be my leading function 'til the other day. I felt it so natural and innate. Yeah, I change my mind a lot. Maybe a leading would not do it so easily. My eternal indecisiveness has made me doubt about it. Also, somewhere I read that types usually explain things in a theoretical way. I don't. I often try to use real life examples to make it clearer to my interlocutor.

    Didn't know where to include it: I can make a joke about almost anything.

    Thank you again. You're helping me a lot. I'm not writing in other discussions just because I may share misleading information.

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    I think of introverted intuition in the case of ILI to be "monitoring" the congruence of one's own plans (Te), feelings (Fi) and actions (Se). There's a pragmatist bent, like you mentioned, because excess of any kind caries an inherent concomitant cost with it to bring everything back into balance. Too much excess and you might never reach an equilibrium or waste all your effort just trying to get things back on track when there's much more to be done with said time and energy. If you're aware of these dynamics and generally appreciate them then I think that militates strongly towards ILI

    dominant introverted intuition, as I understand it, is concerned with the harmony of the internal situation (in the case of ILI). situation is defined as a broad complex encompassing both affective and objective content; whereas I understand introverted thinking dominance as primarily focused on their logic as the cornerstone of everything and seeks less to create an overall balance between everything but to create the most solid and comprehensive internal logical scheme, to which the rest gives way and has its place defined for it as part of, not a dynamically equillibrated state (ILI), but as a more rigid deterministic structure (LII)

    in other words, introverted perception tends to first weigh everything "as is" and then Te tends to arrange it in terms of cost/benefit informed by Fi values and Se realities. LII "sets" the values "up front" via dominant Ti and then proceeds to arrange everything on the basis of that (Ti supplants Fi as the "value giver" in many ways, and LII devalues Se as well as Te, preferring to structure things according to the preferred mental model--shaping its own reality according to subjective logic rather than, as with ILI, the free floating implications and cross talk between sensation, feeling, and thinking, being dominant giving rise to a post hoc order established on the basis of conscious pragmatism [dominant Ni + creative Te])
    Last edited by Bertrand; 05-29-2017 at 09:20 PM.

  35. #35
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    For your last post, pragmatism and real life application indicates . would've figured out things in theory (compare to @thehotelambush who writes about function elements on his own) being sure about it, the uncertainty is part of the future and past focus. Daydreaming and luck are mostly related to , what you said about loops and keeping track of temporal things point at ILI again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Didn't know where to include it: I can make a joke about almost anything.
    That sounded interesting, how do you go about it?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    That sounded interesting, how do you go about it?
    Honestly, I don't know. During the lesson I can often come up with a joke. I like changing a word with a similar one to make the sentence funny. It's mostly based on the sound and the rhythm of the words. Sometimes my jokes are way too implicit and hidden. In these cases I hate to repeat the joke or just explain it to my interlocutor.
    Also, at times it's a row of them. If I like the environment and I'm encouraged to speak I become simply unstoppable.

  38. #38
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    : It's like everything gets a new perspective and I don't even know it. Base IE is weird. Just now I saw in my minds eye shoe laces suddenly it jumped from shoe and tied itself around the earth and swang itself further away from its current location. It's hard to control. You just accept things and let them do their own things. How to apply it properly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    : It's like everything gets a new perspective and I don't even know it. Base IE is weird. Just now I saw in my minds eye shoe laces suddenly it jumped from shoe and tied itself around the earth and swang itself further away from its current location. It's hard to control. You just accept things and let them do their own things. How to apply it properly?
    What you say makes me a little less confused. What you wrote just does not appeal to me. I think that is a wonderful function, I have some practical use of it but it's not so strong to be my creative function. On the other hand I seem to have quite a strong . I asked some of my friends if they see me more pragmatic or "an explosion of ideas". Although they told me I always have good ideas, most of them confirmed my creative .
    KEEP IT LIGHT AND KEEP IT MOVING

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    What you say makes me a little less confused. What you wrote just does not appeal to me. I think that is a wonderful function, I have some practical use of it but it's not so strong to be my creative function. On the other hand I seem to have quite a strong . I asked some of my friends if they see me more pragmatic or "an explosion of ideas". Although they told me I always have good ideas, most of them confirmed my creative .
    I'm not sure an LII (Ne creative) would be seen as having "an explosion of ideas." Rather they tend to be interested in the abstract, theoretical, or speculative, things that don't have an immediate practical use or effect but are more for gaining understanding or mental entertainment.

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