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Thread: Articles from SSS website on valued functions (in Russian)

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    Default Articles from SSS website on valued functions (in Russian)

    http://socionicasys.org/biblioteka/s...st-v-socionike

    http://socionicasys.org/biblioteka/statji/o-poniatiyah-cennost-anticennost-okn


    "The topic of values ​​in socionics is popular, but not deep enough and systematically studied, many questions remain unclarified. Do the values ​​of dual TIMs coincide? How are the values ​​of TIM and kvadra correlated? If the values ​​unite the quad on the basis of attractive information, then how can one call the association based on the rejection, rejection or inability of the quadra to cope competently with the processing of certain information? We will try to answer these and other questions in our article."

    "However, it is worth remembering that the dual TIM has different function signs. The question arises: what information will be valuable for us - submitted in the signs of our block of Superids or in the signs of the block of the Ego dual?"
    Last edited by Petter; 04-15-2017 at 01:38 PM.

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    I think this alternative interpretation makes more sense.

    Ego: interesting, I am confident so I want to help you.

    Super-Ego: interesting, I am not confident but I would like to figure it out myself.

    Super-Id: not interesting, I am not confident so I appreciate help from you.

    Id: not interesting, I am confident but you should figure it out yourself.

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    "Thus, the area of ​​incompetence of the quadra is a set of minus areas of functions, information on which the quad is not able to competently handle."

    "
    Gamma: -BI (variability and instability, gloomy prospects, negative predictions and sharp changes with a minus sign), -BL (illogicality, abstract logic, theorizing, fuzzy, lack of order), CHE (emotional "swings", contrasts, emotional expansiveness , Low-energy states-despondency, apathy, tears), -Chs (attempts to solve problems by force, capture, attack, attack, aggression)."

    Unfortunately, SSS has a really distorted view on the ILI. It seems like +/- do more harm than good to them.


    --------


    Here are some comments by SSS from 2016.

    I:

    "Okay, can you give me some examples of binary-like rules and some examples of paradoxical logic?"

    SSS:

    "For the most part this is any example that can be either true or false. Like your given expressions. Any argument which suggests that there is only right and wrong. Here we assign the majority of laws. There will be clear 'you can' and 'can not'."

    "It's not so much about the expressions, it's more about the way of thinking. Strict logic with binary-like rules VS. paradoxical logic capable of processing philosophical abstractions."

    I:

    "
    can you describe how you (IEI) use -L when reading that article?"

    SSS:


    "And are you sure that you know that this is my usual way of thinking? We must understand that for me -L is a value function. But low-dimensional. I read it with great interest and memorize it as norm. That is perfectly normal to me that article is contradictory and paradoxical. It creates a feeling of great significance."


    http://www.arturekert.org/miscellaneous/quantum-seeing-in-the-dark.pdf

    SSS actually thinks IEI is more inclined to read this article than ILI. OMG!
    Last edited by Petter; 04-16-2017 at 11:05 AM.

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    Thanks for sharing! And hm

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    He perfectly described why I disregard the theory of valuation all together and see it as redundant, it's incredibly stupid this lack of falsification is the reason why socionics is looked upon as a joke.

    Socionics, using the term "value", intuitively understand what is meant by this word - the importance, the importance of information. Value is a qualitative descriptive attribute that can not be measured. In SSS, we attribute these signs to not sufficiently reliable for the definition of TIM. In the process of diagnosis, we can only assume that if for a person certain information is important, then most likely it refers to the functions of the Ego blocks or Supper. However, at the same time we understand that information from non-value blocks may also be important at a certain stage of life or under certain conditions. For example, if an ILE girl wants to meet a boyfriend and start a family, then for her information on the ethics of relationships (BE) becomes important at some point in her life. Another example, in the age of filling the SuperEgo block for a teenager, information on aspects of this block becomes meaningful. If the filling of the model is distorted and "hangs" on certain blocks or functions, one can observe an accentuation on the functions of non-value blocks. In such cases, only a tool of the dimension of functions helps to correctly determine TIM. That is why SCS experts primarily rely on the parameters of functions, rather than on descriptive signs. At the same time, we can not deny the fact that information on the blocks of the Ego and Supper is in fact a value for every person in the normalized filling of the model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    He perfectly described why I disregard the theory of valuation all together and see it as redundant, it's incredibly stupid this lack of falsification is the reason why socionics is looked upon as a joke.
    I agree with you. I have always been skeptical of valued functions (and quadra values) in Socionics.

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    @domr @niffer

    I was looking in the forum for the article that niffer has suggested to me (Age development and information content of the psyche) and found this thread.

    I've given a different definition of value in the last days, I was saying that it stems from our core functions, that I was suspecting would have been the base and DS.
    The theory of age development of Model A says though that it's our ID to form first, and Ego functions only develop through adolescence.

    So domr, I suspect you'll like knowing this, in here the definition of values is debated too, which is what I've asked you to respond to in terms of switching to our ID/unconscious. Maybe you're right and we really contain a vivid part of our unconscious from when we were kids, and it's that part we turn to when switching "values".

    Very interesting, any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    "Id forms first," requires a really high bar or standard because it's not derived from the model so it fundamentally changes the entire theory. This childhood development theory doesn't add enough value or seem credible enough to do that.
    Yeah you're right, I meant to correct it, it was actually the entire Vital block (subconscious) to be mentioned in the article, the ID idea of the origin is a speculation mentioned in here, that the russian article doesn't mention. This other hypothesis implements the theories of Erikson and Piaget. All in all, this is speculative, you're right, but so is socionics, if we are to make rules out of it it will take to study some different real systems, and implement their bones to the socion. The theories of the development of the psyche proposed by Piaget, Erikson and others are a good source to implement to the Model A, me thinks. And it's funny 'cause it's as if they're actually already embedded in there.


    IMO the valued functions axiom is worthy of being included into Analytical Psychology because it changes the model from being club (NF,ST,NT,SF) based to Quadra based. The Quadras add a substantial amount of value in that they explain core values or corporate culture, and explain why types that are seemingly very different (clubs) in reality tend to like each other and get along great (Quadras). If someone wants to remove the valued function axiom then they need a better way to explain this chemistry.
    Oh yeah there are so many things that make some sense inside of socionics...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    The theory of age development of Model A says though that [...] and Ego functions only develop through adolescence.
    Actually it says Ego functions start to develop in the early 20s.

    It says the Super-ego develops throughout adolescence.

    At least from the SSS article that I sent you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Actually it says Ego functions start to develop in the early 20s.

    It says the Super-ego develops throughout adolescence.

    At least from the SSS article that I sent you.
    Correct.
    http://personalitycafe.com/socionics...mistyping.html

    Do you have any idea where the info might be from? She quotes SSS but the info is not in there

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    Correct.
    http://personalitycafe.com/socionics...mistyping.html

    Do you have any idea where the info might be from? She quotes SSS but the info is not in there
    It's linked in the first sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    It's linked in the first sentence.
    I mean an article that provides the same info she gives. The articles she links say nothing about the model she comes up with...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    I mean an article that provides the same info she gives. The articles she links say nothing about the model she comes up with...
    She's explaining this SSS article which she linked in her first sentence: http://socionicasys.org/biblioteka/s...noje-razvitije .

    I'm not sure what you mean. It's all there in the article. She may have elaborated on it some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    She's explaining this SSS article which she linked in her first sentence: http://socionicasys.org/biblioteka/s...noje-razvitije .

    I'm not sure what you mean.
    Hm, it's that in the SSS article there's no reference to any division in ages and blocks of the Model A. She says she sums it up but that information is actually not in there,,, if I'm not hallucinating, that's it.

    I was trying to make sense out of it earlier, why would the ages be as she describes, and I couldn't find that backed in the SSS article, to me it looks like a rather stretched schematization, interesting nevertheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    Hm, it's that in the SSS article there's no reference to any division in ages and blocks of the Model A. She says she sums it up but that information is actually not in there,,, if I'm not hallucinating, that's it.

    I was trying to make sense out of it earlier, why would the ages be as she describes, and I couldn't find that backed in the SSS article, to me it looks like a rather stretched schematization, interesting nevertheless.
    It is in there. It's just a long article.

    It ties the blocks to specific age ranges and talks about them starting with this section title: "Stages and features of the filling of mental functions. Distortion of TIM of the psyche" (which I got after google page translating). It's from about a 3rd of the way down the page onwards.

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    lol O_o I swear I've read it twice earlier and that part wasn't there, now it is... IDK shame on my translator!

    It's still funny how they want to make us live up to 200 years old, and the ages development still seem a bit too stretched to me, in terms of psyche... it's like most people I know are the same as when I used to know them when they were kids, each with their own special psyche traits

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    Imagine the Knowledge you could have accuired in that time.
    she doesn't seem very happy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    Imagine the Knowledge you could have accuired in that time.
    What knowledge?

    Most stop learning after high school, college if they are lucky.
    The people who generate knowledge are typically working in college as researchers or in industry as analysts.
    Everyone else is just regurgitating their work after a reporter sums it up and publishes it online.

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