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Thread: Romantic Compatibility of Instinctual Matches

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    Lightbulb Romantic Compatibility of Instinctual Matches

    Most individuals who study the Enneagram eventually ask themselves: "What kind of instinctual match would be the best for me in a romantic relationship?"

    Of course individual preferences vary, but there are two main factors that determine how helpful and satisfying an instinctual match is for you in a romantic (long-term) relationship:

    Your first instinct being "soothed" by your partner (through their second, most balanced instinct) and/or you both being on the same wavelength – in the same "flow".




    SX first individuals typically yearn for finding that “special someone”, so their priority should be finding someone who is “good” for them. Is that a fellow SX first person?

    SX first people fare the best with someone who is actually not a fellow SX first individual.
    This may seem counterintuitive – because SX first people desire close intimacy so much, shouldn't they be with another SX first person? But the opposite is true. We often desire what is not the best for us. With SX first people, they too late (or not at all) realize that a fellow SX first person brings a very similarly neurotic attitude towards SX into the relationship (at average to unhealthy mental levels), which is rather counterproductive to the couple's welfare. The shared obsession with SX intimacy can lead to isolation, addictions, and more. Additionally, SX first people have a tendency to "give their all" in romantic relationships, and can "lose" themselves in them, so it is best when their partner brings a much more balanced attitude towards SX into the relationship, so that neither one of them gets "burned out". A person who is SX blindspot won't be able to provide them with enough balanced intimacy, similarly to a fellow (average to unhealthy) SX first person, as well as not value it enough. In contrast, SX secondary people have the most balanced view on intimacy and SX matters (at average to healthy mental levels).
    Following that, the best match for SX/SO is SP/SX or SO/SX, and for SX/SP it is SO/SX or SP/SX.

    The only aspect that makes the same flow matches not the clear “winner” is the fact that one person’s first instinct is the other’s blindspot, which can lead to the SX partner being uninterested by the main concerns of their partner, and also create a certain lop-sidedness.

    For example, while the Sx/Sp individual benefits a lot from the balanced view on Sx from the So/Sx person, the latter does not get their So instinct-related neuroses soothed. However, the upside to this match is the fact that both people are in the same flow and hence have the same attitude towards life. It could be concluded that the ideal scenario for this match would include a healthy So/Sx individual – because in that instance, their amount of neuroses would be rather small and less significant. However, a couple like this will go through tough times when the So/Sx person becomes unhealthy – their So-related neuroses emerging, they will seek out help in that area, which the Sx/Sp person is unable and unwilling to give.

    In that respect, the exchange between Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx would be more stable and equal, both individuals benefitting from the other’s second instinct – but at the cost of moving “against” the other’s life direction in some way or another, being in opposite flows. Also, one instinct (their shared blindspot) would continuously get neglected in the relationship, which might be negative. That is why the opposite flow match is not the sole “winner”, but on the same level as the same flow match.



    SX last individuals usually feel like they have a myriad of other things to do rather than to focus their attention on finding (and keeping) a romantic relationship.

    SX last people may grow the most in a relationship with someone who is not a fellow SX last person. However, SX being their blindspot and therefore low on their list of relationship requirements, they will naturally gravitate towards to and feel the most comfortable with someone who shares all of their values and won't try to "push" them for any special kind of intimacy.
    Following that, the best match for SO/SP is SO/SP or SP/SO, and for SP/SO it is SP/SO or SO/SP.

    Those two matches are on the same level, because in the Identical stacking case, the couple will face identical blindspots and weaknesses, which can be a source of frustrations; and in the other match, both people will be able to help the other with their first instinct, but they go in opposite flows, which can create confusions and irritations.



    SX second individuals have the most balanced take on SX matters, and their most beneficial match depends primarily on their own individual goals.

    SX second, as already mentioned before, have the most balanced attitude regarding SX. They do not need help with it like SX first people, nor do they preferably not have to deal with it like SX last people; in fact, they’d prefer it if their partner wasn’t SX blindspot like them.

    Besides that, they’d appreciate it like the other stackings if they were in a relationship with someone who is of the same flow (and not SX blindspot) and/or who soothes or matches their first instinct.
    Following that, the best match for SO/SX is SO/SX or SX/SO, and for SP/SX it is SP/SX or SX/SP.



    Certain instinctual matches are simply too incompatible with each other for the long-term.

    The worst matches are:
    SX/SO with SP/SO, SX/SP with SO/SP, and SO/SX with SP/SX.
    Why are they the worst? First, opposite flows. Secondly, even though they share the same secondary instinct, this commonality provides no benefits nor calming influence, and is overshadowed by the threatening occupations of the other’s first instinct, which is the other's blindspot. What is one person's neurotic obsession is the other's least valued, and "falsely" flowing aspect. Neither person values what the other is the most concerned with, nor can either one person help the other with their weak spots. No wonder their instinctual desires, and hence their instinctual beings are the most opposite.

    That is why I recommend people to avoid this kind of instinctual stacking match in dating. No matter how much the two may be infatuated with each other, the problems arising later in the long-term relationship are usually too difficult to resolve sensibly. Instinctual stackings do not change, so they are deeply embedded in someone's psyche – trying to change someone's flow or blindspot is a futile endeavor. Even if the people have a rather compatible intertype relation in Socionics, this intertype stacking match can have an underestimated, quite negative impact on their longterm happiness as a couple.




    Here the matches for each stacking, from most to least beneficial:

    Sx/So: Sp/Sx or So/Sx > Sx/So > So/Sp or Sx/Sp >> Sp/So
    Sx/Sp: So/Sx or Sp/Sx > Sx/Sp > Sp/So or Sx/So >> So/Sp

    So/Sp: So/Sp or Sp/So > Sx/So or Sp/Sx > So/Sx >> Sx/Sp
    Sp/So: Sp/So or So/Sp > Sx/Sp or So/Sx > Sp/Sx >> Sx/So

    So/Sx: So/Sx or Sx/So > Sp/So > Sx/Sp > So/Sp >> Sp/Sx
    Sp/Sx: Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp > So/Sp > Sx/So > Sp/So >> So/Sx




    For dating and close friendships, I’d recommend people to focus on the stackings in the first two or three halves of the row.

    For example, an Sx/So individual should focus on Sp/Sx, So/Sx, Sx/So people.
    An So/Sp individual should focus on So/Sp, Sp/So, Sx/So, Sp/Sx people.
    An So/Sx individual should focus on So/Sx, Sx/So, Sp/So, Sx/Sp people.


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    Last edited by Olimpia; 08-22-2019 at 08:13 AM. Reason: New insights and experiences
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    Great that you posted it here

    I personally find myself surrounded with an army of SP/SX people wherever I go so... Adore them a lot. They have a sense of relationship/the right amount of intensity and give zero fucks about society as it is. And are very much proficient in pragmatism (unlike me). I don't care that they're awkward, reclusive, or erring on the side of security. That's like all I prefer in a person.

    Did I mention that Ryan Gosling is awesome. Badass SP/SX puppy


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    There is explosive intimacy between two Sx-firsts and it is fucking amazing! Other aspects suffer but I think it's worth it. I'm dating an Sx/so and I'm Sx/sp and I can see how it is a potentially rocky situation but the depth of connection is mind blowing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    There is explosive intimacy between two Sx-firsts and it is fucking amazing! Other aspects suffer but I think it's worth it. I'm dating an Sx/so and I'm Sx/sp and I can see how it is a potentially rocky situation but the depth of connection is mind blowing.
    Double SX relationships are intense for sure.

    Do you know the sociotype of the person you are dating?

    I've found that the successful and long-lasting Sx/Sp + Sx/So couples were comprised of either Identicals or Duals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    There is explosive intimacy between two Sx-firsts and it is fucking amazing! Other aspects suffer but I think it's worth it. I'm dating an Sx/so and I'm Sx/sp and I can see how it is a potentially rocky situation but the depth of connection is mind blowing.
    Yes, I know what you're talking about - ups and downs, like the two poles of magnets switching around. You feel so close one day but the repulsion is just as strong the next. SX and SX is freaking dynamite! It usually magnifies existing extremes, both are so electrified they will never be the same again afterwards. Syn and conflow couples are even more contrarian that way, it really is digging deep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Double SX relationships are intense for sure.

    Do you know the sociotype of the person you are dating?

    I've found that the successful and long-lasting Sx/Sp + Sx/So couples were comprised of either Identicals or Duals.
    He's IEE and I'm EII so we're mirrors. We've been dating for two years and some months now.

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    @Chae It IS digging deep. And I LOOOOOOVE IIIT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    He's IEE and I'm EII so we're mirrors. We've been dating for two years and some months now.
    Sounds good.
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    I don't think sp/sx and so/sx are the worst instinctual pairing IMO. The primary instincts do conflict, but having sx as the secondary instinct ensures that neither partner is too clingy or distant and both share the same intensity with interests.

    I would put this pairing on par with sp/sx and sp/so. A pairing that is neither good or bad could work well with duals or identicals only. Also, look-alike instead of quasi-identical fits better as a name kind of like SEE and IEE with a completely different first function, but the same second function.

    If I had to put a worst pairing for sp/sx, it would probably be so/sp. Completely different overall with little to relate to. I know compatibility is based on syn flow and contra flow, but I don't think it coincides with compatibility let alone it may not even be valid IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I don't think sp/sx and so/sx are the worst instinctual pairing IMO. The primary instincts do conflict, but having sx as the secondary instinct ensures that neither partner is too clingy or distant and both share the same intensity with interests.

    I would put this pairing on par with sp/sx and sp/so. A pairing that is neither good or bad could work well with duals or identicals only. Also, look-alike instead of quasi-identical fits better as a name kind of like SEE and IEE with a completely different first function, but the same second function.

    If I had to put a worst pairing for sp/sx, it would probably be so/sp. Completely different overall with little to relate to. I know compatibility is based on syn flow and contra flow, but I don't think it coincides with compatibility let alone it may not even be valid IMO.
    i have a similar experience. according to the theory, i would be most compatible with sp/so, and hell, no, definitely not for romantic relationships. (business relationships or something else is ok) even friendships can be tough, because of a lack of personal connection. sp/sx is not that bad. at least for friendships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lynn View Post
    i have a similar experience. according to the theory, i would be most compatible with sp/so, and hell, no, definitely not for romantic relationships. (business relationships or something else is ok) even friendships can be tough, because of a lack of personal connection. sp/sx is not that bad. at least for friendships.
    The stackings do not exist in a vacuum; certain sociotypes are more likely to be certain instinctual stackings.

    As far as I know, most Sp/So individuals are Si ego. If you don't value Si, a relationship with such a person could be problematic, depending on your exact Intertype relation.

    However, on a purely instinctual level alone, Sp/So can be good for So/Sx. Yes, you may be missing some Sx moments that you could get with someone who is not Sx blindspot. However, the So instinct of the Sp/So can be quite positive and enriching for an So/Sx.

    My father is my Conflictor (LSE-Si), but he is also Sp/So. We do have conflicts and awkward moments like it is typical for Conflict. However, once in a while we can connect on an instinctual basis: he has a very good take on politics and social dynamics, and I like to go for those things to him and let him explain or expand on those issues. I do quite value his take on those things. If he wasn't Sp/So, our relationship would be worse.

    Whereas with Sp/Sx, I do have had more friends than Sp/So ones in the past and present; but that is because of a good intertype relation, for the most part. My somewhat longer friendships with Sp/Sx individuals have all been with LSIs. With all the other types, my friendship with them was rather short-lived, unless there was something else we could connect on (mainly them being a fellow Type 4, but even then it is problematic).

    And I would never seriously date an Sp/Sx person, and I don't know any So/Sx person who would. Tbh, Sp/Sx to an So/Sx can be extremely weird or off-putting. They can be so removed from the "normal" social flow of things, and have such obscure interests and concerns, that it is just antithetical to what the So/Sx values. And vice versa, most Sp/Sx have some scorn for and look down on the typical So/Sx "social butterfly". Do you know of an Sp/Sx who genuinely likes Jimmy Fallon, for example? I don't.

    My So/Sx mother has been married to my Sp/So dad for decades, and they are still together... Her only little issue with him is his Sx blindspot behavior at times of course, but no instinctual stacking is perfect, as this article shows. With an Sx/Sp, she probably would have an issue with his lack of social interests or concerns. With an Sx/So, she probably would have an issue with his ignorance of material security or other SP instinct related matters. No one is good at every instinct, so it is a matter of what you value more or less.

    The regular person values their first instinct the most in general and does not require the second instinct to be met by someone, both in friendship and romantic relationships, as well as feels the most on the same wavelength with people of the same flow. Being of the same flow is like being in the same Quadra; there is an unspoken agreement regarding the general path in life. And that is why Sp/So is technically the most beneficial for So/Sx, it is the stacking that gives So/Sx the best kind of SO guidance and support.

    Of course SX matters for relationships in general, and you could make the argument that both So/Sx and Sp/Sx value Sx enough that they would require someone to not be Sx blindspot. Or you simply value SX more on a personal basis. In that case, the most beneficial match for them would be Sx/So and Sx/Sp respectively (second most beneficial match in the ranking above). And indeed, those are the two most common matches for those stackings according to anecdotal evidence, besides an Identical stacking.

    I have actually thought about the recommendations for So/Sx and Sp/Sx extensively and considered changing them before, for it is not as black and white with them as it seems to be the case with the other stackings. Sx first naturally NEEDS someone with Sx to be truly happy, and Sx blindspot naturally prefers someone to not be so needy of Sx. But with So/Sx and Sp/Sx, it is much less clear and much more of a grey zone matter.

    I do have found that being of the same flow is rather crucial in family life. When you build a family, you fare much better if you are on the same general life path. For instance, I've found that So/Sx - Sx/So couples usually have a pretty chaotic life together that tends to be very unstable; this flow mismatch is obviously exacerbated by the fact they are both SP blindspot. Sx/Sp - Sp/Sx is naturally more stable in comparison, but there can also be odd disagreements regarding decision making for the children and so forth.

    In that respect, I cannot say with full conviction that Sx/So would be the most beneficial for So/Sx; it simply does not work that way. If you are one to have casual relationships, then I could make that recommendation, but other than that I cannot without some second thoughts.

    Perhaps the truly "most beneficial" match for So/Sx and Sp/Sx in a romantic relationship would be an Identical stacking (just like for the SX blindspot people), for they are of the same flow and both are not Sx blindspot. I do have to say, the best relationships out there are typically made of two So/Sx or two Sp/Sx people, for their take on SX is the best and they are on the same wavelength.

    P.S: I'd like to add that for romantic relationships, SX is obviously the instinct that is ideally the best matched in both partners. However, for "home building" and having a family life, the SP instinct is ideally present (either as first or second instinct). So when it comes to romance alone, an SP blindspot match could be best for an So/Sx; but when it comes to having and building a stable family life, Sp/So or Sx/Sp would take the cake. Because of the fact that having the SP instinct and being of the same flow in family life can be quite important and is ideal, and So/Sx does not care about Sx as much as it cares about So being met adequately, I ended up assigning Sp/So to So/Sx as being the most beneficial.

    P.P.S: I changed the recommendations for SX second a tiny bit and added more extra info as to why so.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 04-11-2017 at 01:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    The stackings do not exist in a vacuum; certain sociotypes are more likely to be certain instinctual stackings.

    As far as I know, most Sp/So individuals are Si ego. If you don't value Si, a relationship with such a person could be problematic, depending on your exact Intertype relation.

    However, on a purely instinctual level alone, Sp/So can be good for So/Sx. Yes, you may be missing some Sx moments that you could get with someone who is not Sx blindspot. However, the So instinct of the Sp/So can be quite positive and enriching for an So/Sx.

    My father is my Conflictor (LSE-Si), but he is also Sp/So. We do have conflicts and awkward moments like it is typical for Conflict. However, once in a while we can connect on an instinctual basis: he has a very good take on politics and social dynamics, and I like to go for those things to him and let him explain or expand on those issues. I do quite value his take on those things. If he wasn't Sp/So, our relationship would be worse.

    Whereas with Sp/Sx, I do have had more friends than Sp/So ones in the past and present; but that is because of a good intertype relation, for the most part. My somewhat longer friendships with Sp/Sx individuals have all been with LSIs. With all the other types, my friendship with them was rather short-lived, unless there was something else we could connect on (mainly them being a fellow Type 4, but even then it is problematic).

    And I would never seriously date an Sp/Sx person, and I don't know any So/Sx person who would. Tbh, Sp/Sx to an So/Sx can be extremely weird or off-putting. They can be so removed from the "normal" social flow of things, and have such obscure interests and concerns, that it is just antithetical to what the So/Sx values. And vice versa, most Sp/Sx have some scorn for and look down on the typical So/Sx "social butterfly". Do you know of an Sp/Sx who genuinely likes Jimmy Fallon, for example? I don't.

    My So/Sx mother has been married to my Sp/So dad for decades, and they are still together... Her only little issue with him is his Sx blindspot behavior at times of course, but no instinctual stacking is perfect, as this article shows. With an Sx/Sp, she probably would have an issue with his lack of social interests or concerns. With an Sx/So, she probably would have an issue with his ignorance of material security or other SP instinct related matters. No one is good at every instinct, so it is a matter of what you value more or less.

    The regular person values their first instinct the most in general and does not require the second instinct to be met by someone, both in friendship and romantic relationships, as well as feels the most on the same wavelength with people of the same flow. Being of the same flow is like being in the same Quadra; there is an unspoken agreement regarding the general path in life. And that is why Sp/So is technically the most beneficial for So/Sx, it is the stacking that gives So/Sx the best kind of SO guidance and support.

    Of course SX matters for relationships in general, and you could make the argument that both So/Sx and Sp/Sx value Sx enough that they would require someone to not be Sx blindspot. Or you simply value SX more on a personal basis. In that case, the most beneficial match for them would be Sx/So and Sx/Sp respectively (second most beneficial match in the ranking above). And indeed, those are the two most common matches for those stackings according to anecdotal evidence, besides an Identical stacking.

    I have actually thought about the recommendations for So/Sx and Sp/Sx extensively and considered changing them before, for it is not as black and white with them as it seems to be the case with the other stackings. Sx first naturally NEEDS someone with Sx to be truly happy, and Sx blindspot naturally prefers someone to not be so needy of Sx. But with So/Sx and Sp/Sx, it is much less clear and much more of a grey zone matter.

    I do have found that being of the same flow is rather crucial in family life. When you build a family, you fare much better if you are on the same general life path. For instance, I've found that So/Sx - Sx/So couples usually have a pretty chaotic life together that tends to be very unstable; this flow mismatch is obviously exacerbated by the fact they are both SP blindspot. Sx/Sp - Sp/Sx is naturally more stable in comparison, but there can also be odd disagreements regarding decision making for the children and so forth.

    In that respect, I cannot say with full conviction that Sx/So would be the most beneficial for So/Sx; it simply does not work that way. If you are one to have casual relationships, then I could make that recommendation, but other than that I cannot without some second thoughts.

    Perhaps the truly "most beneficial" match for So/Sx and Sp/Sx in a romantic relationship would be an Identical stacking (just like for the SX blindspot people), for they are of the same flow and both are not Sx blindspot. I do have to say, the best relationships out there are typically made of two So/Sx or two Sp/Sx people, for their take on SX is the best and they are on the same wavelength.

    P.S: I'd like to add that for romantic relationships, SX is obviously the instinct that is ideally the best matched in both partners. However, for "home building" and having a family life, the SP instinct is ideally present (either as first or second instinct). So when it comes to romance alone, an SP blindspot match could be best for an So/Sx; but when it comes to having and building a stable family life, Sp/So or Sx/Sp would take the cake. Because of the fact that having the SP instinct and being of the same flow in family life can be quite important and is ideal, and So/Sx does not care about Sx as much as it cares about So being met adequately, I ended up assigning Sp/So to So/Sx as being the most beneficial.

    P.P.S: I changed the recommendations for SX second a tiny bit and added more extra info as to why so.
    Well, this analysis is absolutely brilliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, this analysis is absolutely brilliant.
    Haha, thank you!
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    Lol at Sx-first being the most beneficial to nobody, not even themselves. Oh well, at least I don't care very much about benefiting anyone but myself anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Lol at Sx-first being the most beneficial to nobody, not even themselves. Oh well, at least I don't care very much about benefiting anyone but myself anyway.
    Haha, I've never even thought of it that way before.
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    I'm not saying you should give a shot at this for enneagram compatibility but that's exactly what I'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    I'm not saying you should give a shot at this for enneagram compatibility but that's exactly what I'm saying.
    I've tried to come up with a compatibility overview for the core types before, but I ran into a couple of problems.

    The main problem being that the overview did not truly reflect reality as I see it.

    In short, I ended up with this:

    1's most beneficial type being 4.
    2's most beneficial type being 5.
    3's most beneficial type being 6.
    4's most beneficial type being 7.
    5's most beneficial type being 8.
    6's most beneficial type being 9.
    7's most beneficial type being 1.
    8's most beneficial type being 2.
    9's most beneficial type being 3.

    Now, you may say that doesn't look too bad. It looks alright.

    However, I find that in real life, those matches do not always or rarely work ideally.
    For instance, I cannot see all 1s gaining the most benefit from a relationship with a Type 4, or all 3s benefitting the most from being with a Type 6 etc.
    (Mainly because those types are their disintegration points, which those types tend to find unappealing.)

    I kept thinking about this issue, and came to the conclusion that Tritype matters.
    I discovered an intriguing "Enneagram/Tritype dual" connection in several long-term married couples, including my own parents (my mother is the "Enneagram/Tritype Dual" of my father), which lead me to believe that I was more unto something with including the Tritype.

    I have written an article about that before: how one's "Enneagram Dual" depends on one's Tritype.
    Meaning, your tritype's types form together certain "main orientations", and the ideal Enneagram core type is the one that matches those.

    Here is my post.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 04-12-2017 at 09:53 AM.
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    Yes, post it, please.

    My ex and I were a 5 and an 8, and I found that to be very productive but not very warm.
    My last GF and I were a 6 and an 8, and I found that to be very warm and not very productive. However, there were extenuating circumstances regarding productivity (Mirage).

    You might not want to make a "best" chart. That might be too difficult.

    Have you seen this? http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Enneagram-Type

    or this: http://www.donnafisherjackson.com/se...tionships.html

    or this, from http://www.9types.com/writeup/enneag...ationships.php :

    Table of Enneagram Marriage Frequencies.jpg
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-11-2017 at 04:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Whereas with Sp/Sx, I do have had more friends than Sp/So ones in the past and present; but that is because of a good intertype relation, for the most part. My somewhat longer friendships with Sp/Sx individuals have all been with LSIs. With all the other types, my friendship with them was rather short-lived, unless there was something else we could connect on (mainly them being a fellow Type 4, but even then it is problematic).
    So you think activity relations are poor when it comes with sp/sx and so/sx, which is understandable. However, how is your interactions with sp/sx that are your identical or your mirror? You cannot limit so/sx and sp/sx to merely having success with their dual with one example from your main post when your experience with sp/sx is limited primarily to your activity partner. I think there is potential for sp/sx and so/sx with their identical and/or mirror and not just their dual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    And I would never seriously date an Sp/Sx person, and I don't know any So/Sx person who would. Tbh, Sp/Sx to an So/Sx can be extremely weird or off-putting. They can be so removed from the "normal" social flow of things, and have such obscure interests and concerns, that it is just antithetical to what the So/Sx values. And vice versa, most Sp/Sx have some scorn for and look down on the typical So/Sx "social butterfly". Do you know of an Sp/Sx who genuinely likes Jimmy Fallon, for example? I don't.
    Just because you wouldn't, doesn't mean another so/sx would. My interactions with other so/sx is decent within my quadra, but poor outside of my quadra. This has led me to think that the sp/sx and so/sx interaction is far from the best instinctual match, but it is also far from the worst. It would be on par with sp/sx and sp/so as a instinctual pairing that can be beneficial for duals and identicals or perhaps even more. You simply haven't provided enough examples other than syn-flow/contra-flow theory and a few examples of you not getting along with your activity partners that were sp/sx in the long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    My So/Sx mother has been married to my Sp/So dad for decades, and they are still together... Her only little issue with him is his Sx blindspot behavior at times of course, but no instinctual stacking is perfect, as this article shows. With an Sx/Sp, she probably would have an issue with his lack of social interests or concerns. With an Sx/So, she probably would have an issue with his ignorance of material security or other SP instinct related matters. No one is good at every instinct, so it is a matter of what you value more or less.
    That's great that your parents are still happy married, but what are their types? That would influence things greatly in one direction or the other. Personally, I think sp/sx and so/sx has greater potential for success than sp/sx and so/sp for a long term relationship. Socionics type would probably have the greatest influence in changing the dynamic with enneagram type having a lesser impact.
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    I really dont believe in some perfect "match" between any types or instinct stacks. No one is going to come save you. If an sx/sp is dating a so/sx, the soc first vs last is a HUGE difference and if both are unhealthy, which people usually are, or average at least, it will cause a lot of strain with time because they just dont understand eachother. Im dating a so/sx right now, and right now its interesting because we are so different but with time there will probably be some strain and my mind gets blown when he says stuff like "When I was depressed I felt like I couldnt tell anyone, because then my thoughts would spread to everyone, and everyone would be depressed" (hes also 7) which is his worry about "spreading disease" to the rest of society (soc). I would never in my life think about something like that. I dont know how to comfort him with soc issues because I just dont get it.

    With people having the same blindspot instinct there is a ton of more understanding and relating to eachother which is super important in a long term relationship obviously.
    If both parties are healthy it would be better, but then again, only you can make yourself healthy and its by acknowledging your patterns and enneagram is a great tool made for it.
    And btw, I know happily married people where both partners are sx first. I usually dont go for sx first, at least not sx/sp because they remind me of myself and because I dont like myself I go "yuck", subconsciously, just realized this lol.

    I will agree with this though: a bad bad pairing is sx first with sx last because on top of the sx last not understanding the sx first at all, there is turbulence in an sx first thats not in the other instincts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    So you think activity relations are poor when it comes with sp/sx and so/sx, which is understandable. However, how is your interactions with sp/sx that are your identical or your mirror? You cannot limit so/sx and sp/sx to merely having success with their dual with one example from your main post when your experience with sp/sx is limited primarily to your activity partner. I think there is potential for sp/sx and so/sx with their identical and/or mirror and not just their dual.
    I think all relations are worsened by the "same second instinct, different blindspot" matches.
    That includes So/Sx-Sp/Sx, as well as So/Sp-Sx/Sp, Sx/So-Sp/So.

    And this is not just based on my own personal experience, anecdotal evidence and theory, but also this article:

    Stackings that share the same middle instinct but not the leading one can be said to be most opposite in their orientation. If there is any attraction between people of these stackings, it usually forms on basis of overlap of their middle instinct (e.g. sx/sp and so/sp may have involving discussion about sp-topics). They soon discover, however, that their primary motivations and desires couldn't be any more different, that they do not truly understand each other's orientation and primary desires. Feeling that it is difficult to bridge the distance, they often part ways. Often it happens that one of them finds that the primary orientation of the other is too disruptive to their own world (e.g. so/sp feels like sx/sp is too sharp and socially unrefined in self-expression). In such worst case scenarios, one of the people involved may try to eliminate or somehow suppress the other person. This pairing holds the most potential for misunderstandings and conflicts of all other stacking combinations.
    The only kind of ITR that can work with that particular stacking match is Duality, as far as I know.
    But even then, it is problematic. I know of an Sx/Sp-So/Sp duality couple, and they have to go to couple's therapy. I do not know the details, but I am pretty sure it is because their instinctual beings are the opposite.

    I'm not sure how that stacking match works with Identity. It might work with an Identical, for you see things identically with one (duh ), so that evens out the instinctual mismatch of values. However, that would be even more difficult than it is the case in a Duality situation. I'd say Mirror is out, Mirror is the worst in-Quadra relation anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Just because you wouldn't, doesn't mean another so/sx would. My interactions with other so/sx is decent within my quadra, but poor outside of my quadra. This has led me to think that the sp/sx and so/sx interaction is far from the best instinctual match, but it is also far from the worst. It would be on par with sp/sx and sp/so as a instinctual pairing that can be beneficial for duals and identicals or perhaps even more. You simply haven't provided enough examples other than syn-flow/contra-flow theory and a few examples of you not getting along with your activity partners that were sp/sx in the long term
    As I said before, instinctual stackings do not exist in a vacuum. If you enjoy an interaction with an So/Sx as an Sp/Sx and they are your Identical or Dual, that doesn't mean that the instinctual stacking itself is "good" or ideal. Rather, the ITR relationship makes the interaction with said stacking "better" in experience. Another way to think of it, is to see the instincts as values. Just like there are Quadra values, so there are instinctual values; the instinctual stacking is about the values of the individual, from most to least important. With an Identical or Dual, you share very similar values. That balances out the lack of matched values with a certain instinctual stacking.

    That makes me wonder, which stacking do you find to be the worst for you?
    And have you ever considered being possibly Sx/Sp before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    That's great that your parents are still happy married, but what are their types? That would influence things greatly in one direction or the other. Personally, I think sp/sx and so/sx has greater potential for success than sp/sx and so/sp for a long term relationship. Socionics type would probably have the greatest influence in changing the dynamic with enneagram type having a lesser impact.
    I do not see why Sp/Sx - So/Sx would have more success than Sp/Sx - So/Sp. The latter match has more shared values: both value Sp and both are in the same flow; in addition, they can help each other out in their weaknesses. In the former case, both value Sx and that's it; they cannot help each other much either.

    My parents are LSE-Si and ESE-Si respectively, Look-a-likes.
    So sure, Socionics ITRs matter (more). If you are Duals, you can technically be any instinctual match and make it work long-term (with more or less issues or enjoyment). But my ranking is not about that, it is about the enjoyment gained from the stackings themselves. My overview looks at the stackings separately. I am pretty sure that the Sx/Sp Dual hates or is annoyed by the So/Sp occupations and concerns of his partner. I bet that if she was Sp/So, they'd have less stress and issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I really dont believe in some perfect "match" between any types or instinct stacks. No one is going to come save you. If an sx/sp is dating a so/sx, the soc first vs last is a HUGE difference and if both are unhealthy, which people usually are, or average at least, it will cause a lot of strain with time because they just dont understand eachother. Im dating a so/sx right now, and right now its interesting because we are so different but with time there will probably be some strain and my mind gets blown when he says stuff like "When I was depressed I felt like I couldnt tell anyone, because then my thoughts would spread to everyone, and everyone would be depressed" (hes also 7) which is his worry about "spreading disease" to the rest of society (soc). I would never in my life think about something like that. I dont know how to comfort him with soc issues because I just dont get it.

    With people having the same blindspot instinct there is a ton of more understanding and relating to eachother which is super important in a long term relationship obviously.
    If both parties are healthy it would be better, but then again, only you can make yourself healthy and its by acknowledging your patterns and enneagram is a great tool made for it.
    And btw, I know happily married people where both partners are sx first. I usually dont go for sx first, at least not sx/sp because they remind me of myself and because I dont like myself I go "yuck", subconsciously, just realized this lol.

    I will agree with this though: a bad bad pairing is sx first with sx last because on top of the sx last not understanding the sx first at all, there is turbulence in an sx first thats not in the other instincts.
    Yeah, as far as I know most Sx/Sp people do end up with Sp/Sx, for the reasons you've mentioned above.
    It is certainly a more "equal" match. On the other hand, Sx/Sp gets all the benefits of synflow SX from the So/Sx, but they cannot and don't want to help them with SO stuff, as I have mentioned in the article; and that can create problems when the So/Sx is unhealthy.

    So basically, if the So/Sx is healthy, then you'll probably be the happiest with that stacking (as long as the ITR is good enough ofc).
    If the So/Sx is unhealthy, then not really. I suppose an average to even slightly unhealthy Sp/Sx would be better, then.

    Same principle would apply to Sx/So with Sp/Sx – as long as the Sp/Sx person is healthy and does not have SP issues, it is gonna be a good experience for the Sx/So. Basically, the "Benefactor" stacking would have to be healthy enough (in the healthy to average range) for those relationships to really work at their best.

    To sum up, for an Sx/Sp:

    Your best match is a healthy to average So/Sx,
    followed by a healthy to slightly below average/slightly unhealthy Sp/Sx.

    (Needless to say, no unhealthy stacking is gonna be a "good" or "beneficial" match. )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Yes, I have seen all that, and I have read Helen Palmer's book, too.
    In fact, it was the first Enneagram book I ever bought/read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    I think all relations are worsened by the "same second instinct, different blindspot" matches.
    That includes So/Sx-Sp/Sx, as well as So/Sp-Sx/Sp, Sx/So-Sp/So.

    And this is not just based on my own personal experience, anecdotal evidence and theory, but also this article:


    The only kind of ITR that can work with that particular stacking match is Duality, as far as I know.
    But even then, it is problematic. I know of an Sx/Sp-So/Sp duality couple, and they have to go to couple's therapy. I do not know the details, but I am pretty sure it is because their instinctual beings are the opposite.

    I'm not sure how that stacking match works with Identity. It might work with an Identical, for you see things identically with one (duh ), so that evens out the instinctual mismatch of values. However, that would be even more difficult than it is the case in a Duality situation. I'd say Mirror is out, Mirror is the worst in-Quadra relation anyhow.
    I see your point. However, I think you would have to least include identical in conjunction with duality working with sp/sx and so/sx. Perhaps, activity and mirror like you've mentioned are too different and not compatible enough to overcome conflicting instinctual patterns. The same goes with sp/sx and sp/so, you say it is only possible with duals or identicals, but I think this instinctual pairing has potential for within quadra including activity and mirror. A good example of that is Shaebette having a successful relationship with her mirror with the instinctual pairing of sx/sp and sx/so. This contradicts your assertion that only identical and duals can succeed with this instinctual pairing.

    I think the main crux of the issue here is not necessarily the ordering of best relationship to worst for instinctual stackings, because even though I don't completely agree with it, your ordering may possibly be correct. Rather, the main issue is the limits you are are arbitrarily imposing for what can work or not work with these relationships. It is fair to rule out outside of quadra for relationship success for some stackings, but to do so for within quadra is stretching the impact that instinctual pairing has on relationships when Socionics ITR has a much stronger impact IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    As I said before, instinctual stackings do not exist in a vacuum. If you enjoy an interaction with an So/Sx as an Sp/Sx and they are your Identical or Dual, that doesn't mean that the instinctual stacking itself is "good" or ideal. Rather, the ITR relationship makes the interaction with said stacking "better" in experience. Another way to think of it, is to see the instincts as values. Just like there are Quadra values, so there are instinctual values; the instinctual stacking is about the values of the individual, from most to least important. With an Identical or Dual, you share very similar values. That balances out the lack of matched values with a certain instinctual stacking.

    That makes me wonder, which stacking do you find to be the worst for you?
    And have you ever considered being possibly Sx/Sp before?
    I agree with you on this part, well said. I personally find so/sp to be the worst, I feel like I'm dealing with someone that is basically the opposite of me and communicating with them is very grating. I generally get along well the best with other sp/sx. So/sx, sp/so, sx/sp and sx/so seem to be decent for me, but not necessarily good or bad with different plusses and minuses.

    Sx/sp is certainly possible for me, I wouldn't rule it out completely. However, I find I do tend to worry a lot more about sp over sx. Sx related matters is something that I enjoy, but I don't really stress about it in the same way I do about sp related matters. When it comes to so matters, I am at least more indifferent to it compared to most people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    I do not see why Sp/Sx - So/Sx would have more success than Sp/Sx - So/Sp. The latter match has more shared values: both value Sp and both are in the same flow; in addition, they can help each other out in their weaknesses. In the former case, both value Sx and that's it; they cannot help each other much either.

    My parents are LSE-Si and ESE-Si respectively, Look-a-likes.
    So sure, Socionics ITRs matter (more). If you are Duals, you can technically be any instinctual match and make it work long-term (with more or less issues or enjoyment). But my ranking is not about that, it is about the enjoyment gained from the stackings themselves. My overview looks at the stackings separately. I am pretty sure that the Sx/Sp Dual hates or is annoyed by the So/Sp occupations and concerns of his partner. I bet that if she was Sp/So, they'd have less stress and issues.
    I agree with you in the sense of sp/sx and sx/so getting along better than sp/sx and so/sx and the same goes for sx/sp and so/sx getting along better than sx/sp and so/sp, that makes sense from personal experience. However, I personally find so/sp more grating than so/sx in both short term and long term interactions. I just figured that sp/sx and so/sx would have a more positive relationship because they value sx about the same even though they value sp and so completely differently rather than sp/sx and so/sp where sp, sx and so are all valued completely differently.
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    So/Sp: So/Sp > Sp/So
    Sp/So: Sp/So > So/Sp
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    As the ranking shows, apart from the SX blindspot and same stacking matches, the match that is the most beneficial for you is not on an "equal" footing with you – you "get more" out of that match than the other person.
    all y'all Sx types so obsessed with compatibility and attraction and shit and the Sx-lasts are winning without even trying

    you can't lose if you don't play
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellafera View Post
    all y'all Sx types so obsessed with compatibility and attraction and shit and the Sx-lasts are winning without even trying

    you can't lose if you don't play
    Haha!

    Well, So/Sp and Sp/So may have it easier once they find a fellow SX blindspot person, but in general they are the ones who have the most difficulties with romance, being SX blindspot. So... I guess it is fair their ideal match is equal while they are the ones who probably are the worst at SX from all stackings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellafera View Post
    all y'all Sx types so obsessed with compatibility and attraction and shit and the Sx-lasts are winning without even trying

    you can't lose if you don't play
    That's exactly right, but because of my general detachment and the construction of ideal worlds and visions of my future I tend to neglect what's happening around me in a strictly more social context. In this way I might feel like I'm playin but I really aint. Usually I don't understand that someone likes me or even that I like them until some series of events acts as a catalyst for those branches of thoughts to occur. Incluing but not limited to hitting me in the head with a comically enormous hammer with the text "I like you". This has improved with age though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stellafera View Post
    all y'all Sx types so obsessed with compatibility and attraction and shit and the Sx-lasts are winning without even trying
    I think this whole obsession with finding compatability is some sort of soc-based romanticized fairy tale view of how a relationship should work. That they help eachother toward health and the ultimate perfect compatability for it is a very soc idea.

    Sx firsts dont care about how compatible they are with a person, they only care about the attraction/'chemistry' and put that above all, I put chemistry in '' because I think generally we mistake the attraction for chemistry, sx is an objectification afterall.
    Last edited by consistencyofenergy; 04-13-2017 at 07:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I think this whole obsession with finding compatability is some sort of soc-based romanticized fairy tale view of how a relationship should work. That they help eachother toward health and the ultimate perfect compatability for it is a very soc idea.

    Sx firsts dont care about how compatible they are with a person, they only care about the attraction/'chemistry' and put that above all, I put chemistry in '' because I think generally we mistake the attraction for chemistry, sx is an objectification afterall.
    And that is why many SX first people go through pretty horrible or at least heart-breaking relationship experiences.

    I don't see anything wrong with trying to prevent that as best as possible.

    SX first people who have had too many problems in romance become pretty unhealthy and jaded over time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Sx firsts dont care about how compatible they are with a person, they only care about the attraction/'chemistry' and put that above all, I put chemistry in '' because I think generally we mistake the attraction for chemistry, sx is an objectification afterall.
    This is some good insight, thank you. I assume it's somewhat comparable to the "Yes, I'd like 5 friend-people please, any people will do" behavior of So/Sp's where we care more about forming a social circle than necessarily who we form it with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    SX first people who have had too many problems in romance become pretty unhealthy and jaded over time.
    Monstrous..
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Updated the post.

    Based on new insights and experiences, I've modified the best match recommendations slightly.
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
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    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



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    Default Best Matches for Family Life (Home & Children)

    The best matches for family life (aka maintaining a home and having children) require SP being present as well as both partners being in the same flow. This way, SP matters will be properly taken care of and both partners are on the same wavelength about it.

    Tier 1: So/Sp + So/Sp, Sp/So + Sp/So, Sp/Sx + Sp/Sx
    Tier 2: Sx/Sp + Sx/Sp
    Tier 3: So/Sx + Sx/Sp, Sx/So + Sp/Sx
    Tier 4: Sx/So + So/Sp, Sp/So + Sx/Sp, Sp/So + So/Sx, Sp/Sx + So/Sp
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    The best matches for family life (aka maintaining a home and having children) require SP being present as well as both partners being in the same flow. This way, SP matters will be properly taken care of and both partners are on the same wavelength about it.

    Tier 1: So/Sp + So/Sp, Sp/So + Sp/So, Sp/Sx + Sp/Sx
    Tier 2: Sx/Sp + Sx/Sp
    Tier 3: So/Sx + Sx/Sp, Sx/So + Sp/Sx
    Tier 4: Sx/So + So/Sp, Sp/So + Sx/Sp, Sp/So + So/Sx, Sp/Sx + So/Sp
    I’m sp-last, and I completely agree with the idea that I need a partner who has strong and valued Sp, particularly when it comes to raising kids and maintaining a household. I’ve had partners who were Sp-last, and it was fun and games and self-indulgence all the time, despite my preference for having a stable home and family.

    I believe that in order to have a particular outcome, a person has to be obsessive about it or they will lose focus. Being Sp-first or second ensures that one person is obsessively focused.

    *EDIT*
    I’m Sx/So/Sp, and I’m obsessively focused on maintaining a good one-on-one relationship and on maintaining an extended So relationship with a lot of people. I don’t care so much about Sp material security, since my security comes from the first two instincts.
    But this means that my finances, home maintenance, meal planning and future job security can appear to be chaotic sometimes. (I deal with this myself by having good reserves, so inattention to these things doesn’t result in my little airplane hitting the treetops on its up-and-down excursions.)
    I find that I’m subconsciously attracted to women who demonstrate strong Sp, probably because I know they can cover my weaknesses.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-17-2018 at 11:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Double SX relationships are intense for sure.

    Do you know the sociotype of the person you are dating?

    I've found that the successful and long-lasting Sx/Sp + Sx/So couples were comprised of either Identicals or Duals.
    Sorry double post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Double SX relationships are intense for sure.

    Do you know the sociotype of the person you are dating?

    I've found that the successful and long-lasting Sx/Sp + Sx/So couples were comprised of either Identicals or Duals.
    Makes sense. My husband and I are each other's duals; and are both sx/sp s. ��

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    I'm Sx/Sp and I find So/Sx extremely attractive (regardless of type)

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    This theory is wrong. These are the correct stacking compatiblities:



    -Sx/So: Sx/sp (dual) > Sx/So (activity) > So/sx (semi-dual) > So/sp (benefactor) > sp/sx (supervisor) > sp/so (conflict)
    -Sx/Sp: Sx/so(dual) > Sx/sp (activity) > Sp/sx (semi-dual) > Sp/so (benefactor) > So/sx (supervisor) > So/sp (conflict)
    -So/Sp:
    So/sz (dual) > So/Sp (activity) > Sp/so (semi-dual) > Sp/sx (benefactor) > sx/so (supervisor) > sx/sp (conflict)
    -Sp/So:
    Sp/sx (dual) > Sp/So (activity) > So/sp (semi-dual) > So/sx (benefactor) > sx/sp (supervisor) > sx/so (conflict)
    -So/Sx:
    So/sp (dual) > So/Sx (activity) > Sx/so(semi-dual) > Sx/sp (benefactor) > sp/so (supervisor) > sp/sx (conflict)
    -Sp/Sx: Sp
    /so (dual) > Sp/Sx (activity) > Sx/Sp (semi-dual) > Sx/so (benefactor) > so/sp (supervisor) > so/sx (conflict)


    And for Etype compatibility, it depends but I've noticed these patterns:

    1. good - 4,6,2,5 bad 8
    2. good - 4,8,1,7 bad 3
    3. good - 6,1 bad 9
    4. good - 2,4,5,8,9 bad 7
    5. good - 5,7,8 bad 2,3
    6. good - 3,8 bad - 4,5,7
    7. good - 9,2 bad - rest
    8. good - 4, 6,2,9 bad 3,5,7,1
    9. good - all

    Wings may influence the relation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    This theory is wrong. These are the correct stacking compatiblities:



    -Sx/So: Sx/sp (dual) > Sx/So (activity) > So/sx (semi-dual) > So/sp (benefactor) > sp/sx (supervisor) > sp/so (conflict)
    -Sx/Sp: Sx/so(dual) > Sx/sp (activity) > Sp/sx (semi-dual) > Sp/so (benefactor) > So/sx (supervisor) > So/sp (conflict)
    -So/Sp:
    So/sz (dual) > So/Sp (activity) > Sp/so (semi-dual) > Sp/sx (benefactor) > sx/so (supervisor) > sx/sp (conflict)
    -Sp/So:
    Sp/sx (dual) > Sp/So (activity) > So/sp (semi-dual) > So/sx (benefactor) > sx/sp (supervisor) > sx/so (conflict)
    -So/Sx:
    So/sp (dual) > So/Sx (activity) > Sx/so(semi-dual) > Sx/sp (benefactor) > sp/so (supervisor) > sp/sx (conflict)
    -Sp/Sx: Sp
    /so (dual) > Sp/Sx (activity) > Sx/Sp (semi-dual) > Sx/so (benefactor) > so/sp (supervisor) > so/sx (conflict)


    And for Etype compatibility, it depends but I've noticed these patterns:

    1. good - 4,6,2,5 bad 8
    2. good - 4,8,1,7 bad 3
    3. good - 6,1 bad 9
    4. good - 2,4,5,8,9 bad 7
    5. good - 5,7,8 bad 2,3
    6. good - 3,8 bad - 4,5,7
    7. good - 9,2 bad - rest
    8. good - 4, 6,2,9 bad 3,5,7,1
    9. good - all

    Wings may influence the relation.
    So what’s the explanation behind all this?
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
    Celebs [x] Theory [x] Tumblr [x]

    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    So what’s the explanation behind all this?
    It works that way. Check it you will see it's right. Props to you for coming up with this but you missed the proper relations.

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