Romantic Compatibility of Instinctual Matches

[lynn]

I don't think sp/sx and so/sx are the worst instinctual pairing IMO. The primary instincts do conflict, but having sx as the secondary instinct ensures that neither partner is too clingy or distant and both share the same intensity with interests.

I would put this pairing on par with sp/sx and sp/so. A pairing that is neither good or bad could work well with duals or identicals only. Also, look-alike instead of quasi-identical fits better as a name kind of like SEE and IEE with a completely different first function, but the same second function.

If I had to put a worst pairing for sp/sx, it would probably be so/sp. Completely different overall with little to relate to. I know compatibility is based on syn flow and contra flow, but I don't think it coincides with compatibility let alone it may not even be valid IMO.

i have a similar experience. according to the theory, i would be most compatible with sp/so, and hell, no, definitely not for romantic relationships. (business relationships or something else is ok) even friendships can be tough, because of a lack of personal connection. sp/sx is not that bad. at least for friendships.

[Olimpia]

i have a similar experience. according to the theory, i would be most compatible with sp/so, and hell, no, definitely not for romantic relationships. (business relationships or something else is ok) even friendships can be tough, because of a lack of personal connection. sp/sx is not that bad. at least for friendships.

The stackings do not exist in a vacuum; certain sociotypes are more likely to be certain instinctual stackings.

As far as I know, most Sp/So individuals are Si ego. If you don't value Si, a relationship with such a person could be problematic, depending on your exact Intertype relation.

However, on a purely instinctual level alone, Sp/So can be good for So/Sx. Yes, you may be missing some Sx moments that you could get with someone who is not Sx blindspot. However, the So instinct of the Sp/So can be quite positive and enriching for an So/Sx.

My father is my Conflictor (LSE-Si), but he is also Sp/So. We do have conflicts and awkward moments like it is typical for Conflict. However, once in a while we can connect on an instinctual basis: he has a very good take on politics and social dynamics, and I like to go for those things to him and let him explain or expand on those issues. I do quite value his take on those things. If he wasn't Sp/So, our relationship would be worse.

Whereas with Sp/Sx, I do have had more friends than Sp/So ones in the past and present; but that is because of a good intertype relation, for the most part. My somewhat longer friendships with Sp/Sx individuals have all been with LSIs. With all the other types, my friendship with them was rather short-lived, unless there was something else we could connect on (mainly them being a fellow Type 4, but even then it is problematic).

And I would never seriously date an Sp/Sx person, and I don't know any So/Sx person who would. Tbh, Sp/Sx to an So/Sx can be extremely weird or off-putting. They can be so removed from the "normal" social flow of things, and have such obscure interests and concerns, that it is just antithetical to what the So/Sx values. And vice versa, most Sp/Sx have some scorn for and look down on the typical So/Sx "social butterfly". Do you know of an Sp/Sx who genuinely likes Jimmy Fallon, for example? I don't.

My So/Sx mother has been married to my Sp/So dad for decades, and they are still together... Her only little issue with him is his Sx blindspot behavior at times of course, but no instinctual stacking is perfect, as this article shows. With an Sx/Sp, she probably would have an issue with his lack of social interests or concerns. With an Sx/So, she probably would have an issue with his ignorance of material security or other SP instinct related matters. No one is good at every instinct, so it is a matter of what you value more or less.

The regular person values their first instinct the most in general and does not require the second instinct to be met by someone, both in friendship and romantic relationships, as well as feels the most on the same wavelength with people of the same flow. Being of the same flow is like being in the same Quadra; there is an unspoken agreement regarding the general path in life. And that is why Sp/So is technically the most beneficial for So/Sx, it is the stacking that gives So/Sx the best kind of SO guidance and support.

Of course SX matters for relationships in general, and you could make the argument that both So/Sx and Sp/Sx value Sx enough that they would require someone to not be Sx blindspot. Or you simply value SX more on a personal basis. In that case, the most beneficial match for them would be Sx/So and Sx/Sp respectively (second most beneficial match in the ranking above). And indeed, those are the two most common matches for those stackings according to anecdotal evidence, besides an Identical stacking.

I have actually thought about the recommendations for So/Sx and Sp/Sx extensively and considered changing them before, for it is not as black and white with them as it seems to be the case with the other stackings. Sx first naturally NEEDS someone with Sx to be truly happy, and Sx blindspot naturally prefers someone to not be so needy of Sx. But with So/Sx and Sp/Sx, it is much less clear and much more of a grey zone matter.

I do have found that being of the same flow is rather crucial in family life. When you build a family, you fare much better if you are on the same general life path. For instance, I've found that So/Sx - Sx/So couples usually have a pretty chaotic life together that tends to be very unstable; this flow mismatch is obviously exacerbated by the fact they are both SP blindspot. Sx/Sp - Sp/Sx is naturally more stable in comparison, but there can also be odd disagreements regarding decision making for the children and so forth.

In that respect, I cannot say with full conviction that Sx/So would be the most beneficial for So/Sx; it simply does not work that way. If you are one to have casual relationships, then I could make that recommendation, but other than that I cannot without some second thoughts.

Perhaps the truly "most beneficial" match for So/Sx and Sp/Sx in a romantic relationship would be an Identical stacking (just like for the SX blindspot people), for they are of the same flow and both are not Sx blindspot. I do have to say, the best relationships out there are typically made of two So/Sx or two Sp/Sx people, for their take on SX is the best and they are on the same wavelength.

P.S: I'd like to add that for romantic relationships, SX is obviously the instinct that is ideally the best matched in both partners. However, for "home building" and having a family life, the SP instinct is ideally present (either as first or second instinct). So when it comes to romance alone, an SP blindspot match could be best for an So/Sx; but when it comes to having and building a stable family life, Sp/So or Sx/Sp would take the cake. Because of the fact that having the SP instinct and being of the same flow in family life can be quite important and is ideal, and So/Sx does not care about Sx as much as it cares about So being met adequately, I ended up assigning Sp/So to So/Sx as being the most beneficial.

P.P.S: I changed the recommendations for SX second a tiny bit and added more extra info as to why so.

[Adam Strange]

The stackings do not exist in a vacuum; certain sociotypes are more likely to be certain instinctual stackings.

As far as I know, most Sp/So individuals are Si ego. If you don't value Si, a relationship with such a person could be problematic, depending on your exact Intertype relation.

However, on a purely instinctual level alone, Sp/So can be good for So/Sx. Yes, you may be missing some Sx moments that you could get with someone who is not Sx blindspot. However, the So instinct of the Sp/So can be quite positive and enriching for an So/Sx.

My father is my Conflictor (LSE-Si), but he is also Sp/So. We do have conflicts and awkward moments like it is typical for Conflict. However, once in a while we can connect on an instinctual basis: he has a very good take on politics and social dynamics, and I like to go for those things to him and let him explain or expand on those issues. I do quite value his take on those things. If he wasn't Sp/So, our relationship would be worse.

Whereas with Sp/Sx, I do have had more friends than Sp/So ones in the past and present; but that is because of a good intertype relation, for the most part. My somewhat longer friendships with Sp/Sx individuals have all been with LSIs. With all the other types, my friendship with them was rather short-lived, unless there was something else we could connect on (mainly them being a fellow Type 4, but even then it is problematic).

And I would never seriously date an Sp/Sx person, and I don't know any So/Sx person who would. Tbh, Sp/Sx to an So/Sx can be extremely weird or off-putting. They can be so removed from the "normal" social flow of things, and have such obscure interests and concerns, that it is just antithetical to what the So/Sx values. And vice versa, most Sp/Sx have some scorn for and look down on the typical So/Sx "social butterfly". Do you know of an Sp/Sx who genuinely likes Jimmy Fallon, for example? I don't.

My So/Sx mother has been married to my Sp/So dad for decades, and they are still together... Her only little issue with him is his Sx blindspot behavior at times of course, but no instinctual stacking is perfect, as this article shows. With an Sx/Sp, she probably would have an issue with his lack of social interests or concerns. With an Sx/So, she probably would have an issue with his ignorance of material security or other SP instinct related matters. No one is good at every instinct, so it is a matter of what you value more or less.

The regular person values their first instinct the most in general and does not require the second instinct to be met by someone, both in friendship and romantic relationships, as well as feels the most on the same wavelength with people of the same flow. Being of the same flow is like being in the same Quadra; there is an unspoken agreement regarding the general path in life. And that is why Sp/So is technically the most beneficial for So/Sx, it is the stacking that gives So/Sx the best kind of SO guidance and support.

Of course SX matters for relationships in general, and you could make the argument that both So/Sx and Sp/Sx value Sx enough that they would require someone to not be Sx blindspot. Or you simply value SX more on a personal basis. In that case, the most beneficial match for them would be Sx/So and Sx/Sp respectively (second most beneficial match in the ranking above). And indeed, those are the two most common matches for those stackings according to anecdotal evidence, besides an Identical stacking.

I have actually thought about the recommendations for So/Sx and Sp/Sx extensively and considered changing them before, for it is not as black and white with them as it seems to be the case with the other stackings. Sx first naturally NEEDS someone with Sx to be truly happy, and Sx blindspot naturally prefers someone to not be so needy of Sx. But with So/Sx and Sp/Sx, it is much less clear and much more of a grey zone matter.

I do have found that being of the same flow is rather crucial in family life. When you build a family, you fare much better if you are on the same general life path. For instance, I've found that So/Sx - Sx/So couples usually have a pretty chaotic life together that tends to be very unstable; this flow mismatch is obviously exacerbated by the fact they are both SP blindspot. Sx/Sp - Sp/Sx is naturally more stable in comparison, but there can also be odd disagreements regarding decision making for the children and so forth.

In that respect, I cannot say with full conviction that Sx/So would be the most beneficial for So/Sx; it simply does not work that way. If you are one to have casual relationships, then I could make that recommendation, but other than that I cannot without some second thoughts.

Perhaps the truly "most beneficial" match for So/Sx and Sp/Sx in a romantic relationship would be an Identical stacking (just like for the SX blindspot people), for they are of the same flow and both are not Sx blindspot. I do have to say, the best relationships out there are typically made of two So/Sx or two Sp/Sx people, for their take on SX is the best and they are on the same wavelength.

P.S: I'd like to add that for romantic relationships, SX is obviously the instinct that is ideally the best matched in both partners. However, for "home building" and having a family life, the SP instinct is ideally present (either as first or second instinct). So when it comes to romance alone, an SP blindspot match could be best for an So/Sx; but when it comes to having and building a stable family life, Sp/So or Sx/Sp would take the cake. Because of the fact that having the SP instinct and being of the same flow in family life can be quite important and is ideal, and So/Sx does not care about Sx as much as it cares about So being met adequately, I ended up assigning Sp/So to So/Sx as being the most beneficial.

P.P.S: I changed the recommendations for SX second a tiny bit and added more extra info as to why so.

Well, this analysis is absolutely brilliant.

[Olimpia]

Well, this analysis is absolutely brilliant.

Haha, thank you!

[Raver]

Whereas with Sp/Sx, I do have had more friends than Sp/So ones in the past and present; but that is because of a good intertype relation, for the most part. My somewhat longer friendships with Sp/Sx individuals have all been with LSIs. With all the other types, my friendship with them was rather short-lived, unless there was something else we could connect on (mainly them being a fellow Type 4, but even then it is problematic).

So you think activity relations are poor when it comes with sp/sx and so/sx, which is understandable. However, how is your interactions with sp/sx that are your identical or your mirror? You cannot limit so/sx and sp/sx to merely having success with their dual with one example from your main post when your experience with sp/sx is limited primarily to your activity partner. I think there is potential for sp/sx and so/sx with their identical and/or mirror and not just their dual.

And I would never seriously date an Sp/Sx person, and I don't know any So/Sx person who would. Tbh, Sp/Sx to an So/Sx can be extremely weird or off-putting. They can be so removed from the "normal" social flow of things, and have such obscure interests and concerns, that it is just antithetical to what the So/Sx values. And vice versa, most Sp/Sx have some scorn for and look down on the typical So/Sx "social butterfly". Do you know of an Sp/Sx who genuinely likes Jimmy Fallon, for example? I don't.

Just because you wouldn't, doesn't mean another so/sx would. My interactions with other so/sx is decent within my quadra, but poor outside of my quadra. This has led me to think that the sp/sx and so/sx interaction is far from the best instinctual match, but it is also far from the worst. It would be on par with sp/sx and sp/so as a instinctual pairing that can be beneficial for duals and identicals or perhaps even more. You simply haven't provided enough examples other than syn-flow/contra-flow theory and a few examples of you not getting along with your activity partners that were sp/sx in the long term.

My So/Sx mother has been married to my Sp/So dad for decades, and they are still together... Her only little issue with him is his Sx blindspot behavior at times of course, but no instinctual stacking is perfect, as this article shows. With an Sx/Sp, she probably would have an issue with his lack of social interests or concerns. With an Sx/So, she probably would have an issue with his ignorance of material security or other SP instinct related matters. No one is good at every instinct, so it is a matter of what you value more or less.

That's great that your parents are still happy married, but what are their types? That would influence things greatly in one direction or the other. Personally, I think sp/sx and so/sx has greater potential for success than sp/sx and so/sp for a long term relationship. Socionics type would probably have the greatest influence in changing the dynamic with enneagram type having a lesser impact.

[Olimpia]

So you think activity relations are poor when it comes with sp/sx and so/sx, which is understandable. However, how is your interactions with sp/sx that are your identical or your mirror? You cannot limit so/sx and sp/sx to merely having success with their dual with one example from your main post when your experience with sp/sx is limited primarily to your activity partner. I think there is potential for sp/sx and so/sx with their identical and/or mirror and not just their dual.

I think all relations are worsened by the "same second instinct, different blindspot" matches.
That includes So/Sx-Sp/Sx, as well as So/Sp-Sx/Sp, Sx/So-Sp/So.

And this is not just based on my own personal experience, anecdotal evidence and theory, but also this article:

Stackings that share the same middle instinct but not the leading one can be said to be most opposite in their orientation. If there is any attraction between people of these stackings, it usually forms on basis of overlap of their middle instinct (e.g. sx/sp and so/sp may have involving discussion about sp-topics). They soon discover, however, that their primary motivations and desires couldn't be any more different, that they do not truly understand each other's orientation and primary desires. Feeling that it is difficult to bridge the distance, they often part ways. Often it happens that one of them finds that the primary orientation of the other is too disruptive to their own world (e.g. so/sp feels like sx/sp is too sharp and socially unrefined in self-expression). In such worst case scenarios, one of the people involved may try to eliminate or somehow suppress the other person. This pairing holds the most potential for misunderstandings and conflicts of all other stacking combinations.

The only kind of ITR that can work with that particular stacking match is Duality, as far as I know.
But even then, it is problematic. I know of an Sx/Sp-So/Sp duality couple, and they have to go to couple's therapy. I do not know the details, but I am pretty sure it is because their instinctual beings are the opposite.

I'm not sure how that stacking match works with Identity. It might work with an Identical, for you see things identically with one (duh ), so that evens out the instinctual mismatch of values. However, that would be even more difficult than it is the case in a Duality situation. I'd say Mirror is out, Mirror is the worst in-Quadra relation anyhow.

Just because you wouldn't, doesn't mean another so/sx would. My interactions with other so/sx is decent within my quadra, but poor outside of my quadra. This has led me to think that the sp/sx and so/sx interaction is far from the best instinctual match, but it is also far from the worst. It would be on par with sp/sx and sp/so as a instinctual pairing that can be beneficial for duals and identicals or perhaps even more. You simply haven't provided enough examples other than syn-flow/contra-flow theory and a few examples of you not getting along with your activity partners that were sp/sx in the long term

As I said before, instinctual stackings do not exist in a vacuum. If you enjoy an interaction with an So/Sx as an Sp/Sx and they are your Identical or Dual, that doesn't mean that the instinctual stacking itself is "good" or ideal. Rather, the ITR relationship makes the interaction with said stacking "better" in experience. Another way to think of it, is to see the instincts as values. Just like there are Quadra values, so there are instinctual values; the instinctual stacking is about the values of the individual, from most to least important. With an Identical or Dual, you share very similar values. That balances out the lack of matched values with a certain instinctual stacking.

That makes me wonder, which stacking do you find to be the worst for you?
And have you ever considered being possibly Sx/Sp before?

That's great that your parents are still happy married, but what are their types? That would influence things greatly in one direction or the other. Personally, I think sp/sx and so/sx has greater potential for success than sp/sx and so/sp for a long term relationship. Socionics type would probably have the greatest influence in changing the dynamic with enneagram type having a lesser impact.

I do not see why Sp/Sx - So/Sx would have more success than Sp/Sx - So/Sp. The latter match has more shared values: both value Sp and both are in the same flow; in addition, they can help each other out in their weaknesses. In the former case, both value Sx and that's it; they cannot help each other much either.

My parents are LSE-Si and ESE-Si respectively, Look-a-likes.
So sure, Socionics ITRs matter (more). If you are Duals, you can technically be any instinctual match and make it work long-term (with more or less issues or enjoyment). But my ranking is not about that, it is about the enjoyment gained from the stackings themselves. My overview looks at the stackings separately. I am pretty sure that the Sx/Sp Dual hates or is annoyed by the So/Sp occupations and concerns of his partner. I bet that if she was Sp/So, they'd have less stress and issues.

[Raver]

I think all relations are worsened by the "same second instinct, different blindspot" matches.
That includes So/Sx-Sp/Sx, as well as So/Sp-Sx/Sp, Sx/So-Sp/So.

And this is not just based on my own personal experience, anecdotal evidence and theory, but also this article:


The only kind of ITR that can work with that particular stacking match is Duality, as far as I know.
But even then, it is problematic. I know of an Sx/Sp-So/Sp duality couple, and they have to go to couple's therapy. I do not know the details, but I am pretty sure it is because their instinctual beings are the opposite.

I'm not sure how that stacking match works with Identity. It might work with an Identical, for you see things identically with one (duh ), so that evens out the instinctual mismatch of values. However, that would be even more difficult than it is the case in a Duality situation. I'd say Mirror is out, Mirror is the worst in-Quadra relation anyhow.

I see your point. However, I think you would have to least include identical in conjunction with duality working with sp/sx and so/sx. Perhaps, activity and mirror like you've mentioned are too different and not compatible enough to overcome conflicting instinctual patterns. The same goes with sp/sx and sp/so, you say it is only possible with duals or identicals, but I think this instinctual pairing has potential for within quadra including activity and mirror. A good example of that is Shaebette having a successful relationship with her mirror with the instinctual pairing of sx/sp and sx/so. This contradicts your assertion that only identical and duals can succeed with this instinctual pairing.

I think the main crux of the issue here is not necessarily the ordering of best relationship to worst for instinctual stackings, because even though I don't completely agree with it, your ordering may possibly be correct. Rather, the main issue is the limits you are are arbitrarily imposing for what can work or not work with these relationships. It is fair to rule out outside of quadra for relationship success for some stackings, but to do so for within quadra is stretching the impact that instinctual pairing has on relationships when Socionics ITR has a much stronger impact IMO.

As I said before, instinctual stackings do not exist in a vacuum. If you enjoy an interaction with an So/Sx as an Sp/Sx and they are your Identical or Dual, that doesn't mean that the instinctual stacking itself is "good" or ideal. Rather, the ITR relationship makes the interaction with said stacking "better" in experience. Another way to think of it, is to see the instincts as values. Just like there are Quadra values, so there are instinctual values; the instinctual stacking is about the values of the individual, from most to least important. With an Identical or Dual, you share very similar values. That balances out the lack of matched values with a certain instinctual stacking.

That makes me wonder, which stacking do you find to be the worst for you?
And have you ever considered being possibly Sx/Sp before?

I agree with you on this part, well said. I personally find so/sp to be the worst, I feel like I'm dealing with someone that is basically the opposite of me and communicating with them is very grating. I generally get along well the best with other sp/sx. So/sx, sp/so, sx/sp and sx/so seem to be decent for me, but not necessarily good or bad with different plusses and minuses.

Sx/sp is certainly possible for me, I wouldn't rule it out completely. However, I find I do tend to worry a lot more about sp over sx. Sx related matters is something that I enjoy, but I don't really stress about it in the same way I do about sp related matters. When it comes to so matters, I am at least more indifferent to it compared to most people.

I do not see why Sp/Sx - So/Sx would have more success than Sp/Sx - So/Sp. The latter match has more shared values: both value Sp and both are in the same flow; in addition, they can help each other out in their weaknesses. In the former case, both value Sx and that's it; they cannot help each other much either.

My parents are LSE-Si and ESE-Si respectively, Look-a-likes.
So sure, Socionics ITRs matter (more). If you are Duals, you can technically be any instinctual match and make it work long-term (with more or less issues or enjoyment). But my ranking is not about that, it is about the enjoyment gained from the stackings themselves. My overview looks at the stackings separately. I am pretty sure that the Sx/Sp Dual hates or is annoyed by the So/Sp occupations and concerns of his partner. I bet that if she was Sp/So, they'd have less stress and issues.

I agree with you in the sense of sp/sx and sx/so getting along better than sp/sx and so/sx and the same goes for sx/sp and so/sx getting along better than sx/sp and so/sp, that makes sense from personal experience. However, I personally find so/sp more grating than so/sx in both short term and long term interactions. I just figured that sp/sx and so/sx would have a more positive relationship because they value sx about the same even though they value sp and so completely differently rather than sp/sx and so/sp where sp, sx and so are all valued completely differently.