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Thread: does the "gratifyingness" of certain modes of behavior signal type?

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    Default does the "gratifyingness" of certain modes of behavior signal type?

    I was thinking about the possibility of maybe being an ESI, although I never really seriously considered it in the past, mainly because its hard to imagine myself as going around in a cloud of Fi; but something else occured to me: for me, by far, the most gratifying life experiences, although somewhat rare compared to all sorts of other categories of experience, is ethical sensing behavior. By ethical sensing I mean taking concrete action on the basis of ethical functions. I can think of what all different kinds of combinations of functions would look like:

    • ethical intuitions: stuff like like Eckhardt Tolle blissfully sitting on a park bench for hours
    • ethical sensing: moral action in a more concrete sense. apologizing, calling people out, confessions, admissions, recompense, sacrifice, defense of others
    • logical intuitions: theoretical insight into mechanics of the world
    • logical sensing: fixing things, racing cars


    most of this is Se + Ti/Fi, but you get the idea (I think one could work up all possible combinations were they so inclined).

    Anyway, the point is that when I reflect on my life, I do a lot of logical intuition, and while I get a degree of satisfaction from that, as well as logical sensing and ethical intuitions, it seems to me that the realm of ethical sensing is paramount from the point of view of personal meaning. In other words, when I think about the most important, most gratifying moments, in retrospect and going forward (marriage proposals, having children, etc) its always the ethical sensing moments that take the cake. I'm tempted to think everyone thinks this way, mainly because its such a traditional mindset: most movies and media sort of enshrine those moments and achievements as the object and culmination of human activity. But then I think that is probably not necessarily the case... then I wonder if there's any direct relationship between type and function order and these kind of "meta values." In other words, I could see this as a manifestation of any number of functional positions (base, activating, mobilizing, etc)....

    As for me, I take great pleasure in actively making a "moral move" even it means confessing guilt or something otherwise seemingly unpleasant, especially once the hard part is over. I think a part of this is enneagram type 1 but I also think it could be an ESI thing, wherein you have your sort of confidence in Fi and then by taking action on it you fashion solutions that are creative and work for you and define your approach to life, etc etc

    I know this is all a little half baked. Thoughts?

    edit: I know some people definitely avoid my cherished mode of behavior, as if it were its exact opposite (something hateful, to be avoided at all costs): i.e.: those people that never ever admit they're wrong, even when its obvious, they're reaching for excuses, no matter how transparent and asinine, (ESE, when unhealthy tends to do this a lot... ILI too, in a different way, etc-- I would describe what these two types have in common having to do with their relationship to Ni, which takes the form of "bizarre wilful contortions of reality in order to evade ethical responsibility for their actions"-- one in an incredibly obtuse/stupefying manner the other in somersaults of Ptolemaic "logic") (Don Quixote, Huxley, and Napoleon all have their have moments too)...
    Last edited by Bertrand; 03-30-2017 at 06:11 AM.

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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-hidden-agenda

    Also look up "HA infatuation".

    A lot of people like to mistype as their activity partner type due to this HA infatuation combined with the fact that their activity partner has shared values. I did this for two years.

    I actually also typed as an NF type in Jung for 8 years in total due to the exact same logic you used in your post up there. That logic is wrong though. You may cherish your super-id, which is why you cherish your dual so much. It doesn't mean that's where your greatest technical strengths lie though, though it can certainly feel that way, that it's where you draw energy from (because it is).
    Last edited by niffer; 03-30-2017 at 09:14 AM.

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    I feel like there's a paradox if your greatest strength is Fi and you feel its your greatest strength, it would be true, yet if it was your HA you could feel it was your greatest strength but not be true. there's a question begging quality to the entire idea of the HA that makes other's Ti based evaluations inherently non persuasive because you can make it fit in contradictory circumstances; in other words by your logic you could make both fit (at your option) irrespective of actuality... I feel like HAs got real problems in that regard and thus limited usefulness to the case at hand

    in other words, HA is something you can productively apply to yourself, but not something others can apply to you because you need something deeper than a Ti grid to peg it to (since you could successfully superimpose it over alleged, nevertheless untrue, facts). I don't really feel like this is HA, although I admit from some abstract point of view it could be. I would like to hear more firsthand accounts of what people find gratifying and what their ego is, and if there's a disjunction

    edit: what is it when you find Ti interpretations of one's own experience irritating? I feel like unraveling why your hypothesis is unpersuasive was annoying, because I see precisely how it could be persuasive to Ti types, yet at the same time have almost no relevance or convincingness to me. Does that seem more like Te v Ti, or Ti v Fi; or perhaps something else entirely? I know some critiques rooted in other functions don't really rub me the wrong way, but I find Ti kind of annoying when its used to argue positions rather than explain things... especially because I believe, as it pertains to socionics, the system should follow experience, not experience be dictated by the system. I feel like that is essentially Te/Fi values in a nutshell

    I could see both Gaben and Dreiser not wanting to be hedged in in this way, which returns us to the original dilemma (the discussion on HA has a real non sequitur quality to it, in my mind--such that the annoyance comes from trying to get us back on track)... perhaps its battle of the Ni's

    edit 2: HA has a problem of overly broad domain, if it becomes more than, in the case of Fi "to love." As soon as its extended to all of Fi, i.e.: all the Fi/Se activity I listed in my OP, it now becomes indistinguishable from dominant Fi, which makes that (the HA concept) a metaphysical playground for beta, where they're free to determine the facts at their option, which is precisely what rubs me the wrong way about Ti (as persuasive argument). I've now pretty much answered my own question, but I'll leave it, since it sort of portrays my thought process in real time. In the end I feel like HA (in its broad form) is too susceptible to (especially beta) sophistry to be a useful concept
    Last edited by Bertrand; 03-30-2017 at 10:22 AM.

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    ^ someone's going to need a damn good argument against those being the Ni ramblings of an ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    ^ someone's going to need a damn good argument against those being the Ni ramblings of an ILI
    Yes, I also get the feeling that @Bertrand is on the intuitive side. My Si radar is silent so far

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    I just don't really get why I'm trying to help here, of my own accord. Using facts, actually, which are based off experience (mine and many others'), which is actually Te. And for that I get called a sophist.

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    I think Bertrand, just going through your posts and counting the times you say "I feel" alone makes Fi lead quite believable. I think your approach here to look at your values and where you seem most "at home" or "in your element" definitely has value for typing yourself. Of course we can find our HA gratifying, but it doesn't have the same kind of reach that our base does, and it's more of an altered state than a natural one.

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    making that post was a lot of work, not particularly gratifying... because I already "knew" deep down what I felt was going on, but translating it into words is difficult. Yet if you don't people like Niffer just run roughshod over everyone and no one takes the time to deconstruct their sophistry. I feel like the idea that sensing types can't hold their own or even "win" in the arena of theoretical argumentation is actually a really condescending and stereotypical way of thinking (my Si was silent cause it was chugging monsters--I mean really how is it supposed to show up in this context?--see my post on contact functions. I guess I could post a picture of me as I type out my thoughts, I was very cozy) and a piece of it is rooted in "holding territory" and not really seeking the truth. I kind of think the only reason I've developed those skills is because I've felt under attack by exactly this kind of beta/intuitive "hegemony" growing up so as a part of ego preservation I had to build up that side of myself. I definitely did not start out thinking in these terms as some kind of naturally proclivity, but I've always been one to stick to my guns if I believe in something strongly. but its never been oriented in what I would call "logical intuition" left to its natural course. I get that this is sophisticated and therefore suspicious since this form of reasoning has been abused by beta for so long, but that's really what I think

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    Yet if you don't people like Niffer just run roughshod over everyone and no one takes the time to deconstruct their sophistry.
    My post was under 10 sentences long. My original post was even shorter.

    Please show what "sophistry" you saw in that. Since it was so short, it should be easy for you and not take much time or effort. It makes zero sense that my posts would contain more sophistry than yours.

    For someone who claims to care so much about morals and doing the right thing, you should be apologizing and self-flagellating for insulting me like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    My post was under 10 sentences long. My original post was even shorter.

    Please show what "sophistry" you saw in that. Since it was so short, it must be easy for you and not take much time or effort.

    For someone who claims to care so much about morals and doing the right thing, you should be apologizing and self-flagellating for insulting me like this.

    sophistry is the idea that any of those things are connected

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    @Bertrand That post wasn't even an argument O_o ....

    I'm well aware of what sophistry is. You clearly aren't. Anyway I don't know why you're so upset by all of this. It doesn't make any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    @Bertrand That post wasn't even an argument O_o ....

    I'm well aware of what sophistry is. You clearly aren't. Anyway I don't know why you're so upset by all of this. It doesn't make any sense.
    you're doing the same thing beta NF's do but with logic instead of emotion; which is to draw someone into a dynamic of your construction via various kinds of pressure... control is exerted by getting them to accept the terms of the "debate" which, once accomplished, whatever way they go within it is to your advantage (this is how they corral people). I feel like betas don't really even know they're doing it but its how they go about exerting influence because once someone engages its very hard to get out from under it... I kind of think this is how zhukov or hamlet mobilize people with nothing really to go off of, i.e.: sophistry. I guess its a necessary ability because without it their brand of recalcitrance would never get off the ground, but when directed at people with firm values its just kind of annoying. In other words, you have mistaken me for a lost sheep (Fi PoLR?)

    I wanted to have a sincere discussion surrounding the idea of gratification of certain functions and you came in here like a bull in a china shop pushing your agenda; seemingly because you assumed I was pushing my agenda, which I think is just a projection based on you not understanding my values (Fi) and hence functioning only to push agendas (SLE). Its irritating because it totally missed the point and forced me to try to get things back on track which was repaid by further sidetracking with the ILI discussion as if this is all just a power play to you (you even successfully caught chae in it). its zhukov once again not realizing they're off base and offending people (which to be fair, I'm not offended, because I see you mean well, but you also need to be corrected because you're doing a thing that is wasteful--although perhaps we can make this an object lesson for you and redeem things a bit). Just like ILE, not everyone wants their "Ti" "help" and it alienates people because, believe it or not, Ti does not capture everything, as I tried to point out in my original reply to you (in terms you could understand, logical ones, which were promptly turned against me)...
    Last edited by Bertrand; 03-30-2017 at 07:09 PM.

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    Ya! I mean you chose to break it down to "sensor + ethic" etc, which is not bad. At the same time you can break it down to aristocratic vs democratic and get entirely different outputs. Yo SLI right, I just assume male (based on your username), go grab yourself a LII. ;p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Ya! I mean you chose to break it down to "sensor + ethic" etc, which is not bad. At the same time you can break it down to aristocratic vs democratic and get entirely different outputs. Yo SLI right, I just assume male (based on your username), go grab yourself a LII. ;p
    thanks, I hadn't really thought about it that way; can you tell me more how aristocratic v democratic would line up in terms of sensor/intuitive + ethic/logic?

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    @Bertrand you are being kind of batshit as hell. My OP to you at least was completely on topic and relevant and had no agenda (can you THINK of any reason I might have some agenda of pushing some evil information on you?!?!!?)... and then you called me a sophist.

    Quit projecting your negative associations with beta all over me. Get over your regurgitated infantile issues with your family which have nothing to do with me. You are the only one who is being offensive actually, not I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    @Bertrand you are being kind of batshit as hell. My OP to you at least was completely on topic and relevant and had no agenda (can you THINK of any reason I might have some agenda of pushing some evil information on you?!?!!?)... and then you called me a sophist.

    Quit projecting your negative associations with beta all over me. Get over your regurgitated infantile issues with your family which have nothing to do with me. You are the only one who is being offensive actually, not I.
    there is always such a nasty character interacting with beta, I don't know how you put up with being at the center of that all the time... can't you see you basically just "fight" with everyone? my family is exactly like that--my dad (SEI) even coined the term "the fighting (last names)" to refer to them. I feel like how SLEs go on about "respect" is just the Fi PoLR version of "I get some respite from fighting because our heirarchy has been conclusively determined (by force)" which is not actually respect but insecurity and coercion

    I know Fi sounds insane to Ti, which is how Ti sometimes sounds to me, so that's something we can all keep in mind when interacting with one another (Ti has this pedigree of being "objective", when its anything but, which is really oppressive when its trotted out as such)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    there is always such a nasty character interacting with beta, I don't know how you put up with being at the center of that all the time... can't you see you basically just "fight" with everyone? my family is exactly like that--my dad (SEI) even coined the term "the fighting (last names)" to refer to them. I feel like how SLEs go on about "respect" is just the Fi PoLR version of "I get some respite from fighting because our heirarchy has been conclusively determined (by force)" which is not actually respect but insecurity and coercion

    I know Fi sounds insane to Ti, which is how Ti sometimes sounds to me, so that's something we can all keep in mind when interacting with one another (Ti has this pedigree of being "objective", when its anything but, which is really oppressive when its trotted out as such)
    What the fuck are you talking about? How is it that you can't see you are the one who had an irrational negative reaction to my post, insulting me by calling me and all beta STs sophists, and then turning around with this piece of crap saying that it's my sociotype that elicits these situations?

    Do you not have any remorse and are you not capable of any self-reflection?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    Bertrand I told you once I'll tell you again, you are IEE as fuck. You ramble, analyze in an endless stream of associations, say 'I feel like' every other sentence, you have a habit of analyzing interactions and quarrels as a way of 'winning,' taking the higher road over others by going 'I see what you are doing foolish human,' etc. Etc. It's clear as day and as elton john is gay. Jesus.
    I see what you're saying here but ESI has similar holographic thinking. IEE has major problems because I'm not Ti PoLR, nor Fi creative. But I do argue in a way consistent with delta values and I think would resonate with IEE in a lot of ways. If anything they'd probably just find me too hard edged (no Fi creative). Also there's no way I'm Si suggestive (or Ne base for that matter). Most the elements are present, but not at all ordered in an IEE way

    Also I rant, not ramble, theres a difference

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    you are literally just choosing the type that sounds best to you based on what you like. what the hell? how is this good in any way?

    fine. seeing this offering any more input is utterly wasteful indeed.

    and p.s. your hotness is totally wasted via your batshittery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    thanks, I hadn't really thought about it that way; can you tell me more how aristocratic v democratic would line up in terms of sensor/intuitive + ethic/logic?
    There are a few things I can think of. If we take this example we got every type which exist... can you narrow it down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    you are literally just choosing the type that sounds best to you based on what you like. what the hell? how is this good in any way?

    fine. seeing this offering any more input is utterly wasteful indeed.

    and p.s. your hotness is totally wasted via your batshittery.
    look I'm used to getting my way and I know your Se wants to oppose that, but you need to just go along with it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    There are a few things I can think of. If we take this example we got every type which exist... can you narrow it down?
    I guess I was wondering if there was an all to all correlation between my categories and aristocratic/democratic, i.e.: is sensing/ethical considered A or D, etc or is it more complex than that?

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    ILI or SLI IMO. I don't see ESI to be honest. creative and PoLR is clear. and is a bit harder to tell though. hidden agenda is being confused as lead. We tend to overestimate our hidden agenda and think of it as strong, when it isn't.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    Bertrand I told you once I'll tell you again, you are IEE as fuck. You ramble, analyze in an endless stream of associations, say 'I feel like' every other sentence, you have a habit of analyzing interactions and quarrels as a way of 'winning,' taking the higher road over others by going 'I see what you are doing foolish human,' etc. Etc. It's clear as day and as elton john is gay. Jesus.
    Elton John is gay!
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I guess I was wondering if there was an all to all correlation between my categories and aristocratic/democratic, i.e.: is sensing/ethical considered A or D, etc or is it more complex than that?
    It is fairly simply, Aristocratic if you beta or delta (Se+Fe or Ne+Te) or democratic which is alpha or gamma (Ne+Fe or Se+Te).
    And than you have the stress types by DarkAngelFireWolf69 where as Aristocratic have slow and high resistance stress types and democratic which have stunned or exploit stress types.

    Other than that, there are loads of different lenses you can view Socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    making that post was a lot of work, not particularly gratifying... because I already "knew" deep down what I felt was going on, but translating it into words is difficult. Yet if you don't people like Niffer just run roughshod over everyone and no one takes the time to deconstruct their sophistry.
    It's time consuming, exhausting and ultimately futile to try to communicate with some people. I've gotten really frustrated with this kind of thing myself because I do try to explain things clearly, and if I'm not communicating I take it as my own failure. Some people discuss things to answer questions and learn things. Others just argue for the sake of arguing. No matter what you say to the latter group, they're not interested in understanding anything - so they won't be able to.

    As for the rest, you have a tendency to associate the things you don't like with beta, which imo is more based on subjective feeling than anything else. Those subjective sorts of statements and even your method of typing (I feel like I resonate more with this, etc) look to me like you're putting Fi first, and using Ti as a role. And what people are calling "Ni" again looks more like Ti role to me. You're absolutely right when you say that much is subject to interpretation and that various things can be read into things, so that's just my interpretation of it. What ends up making the most sense to you personally and your understanding ultimately matters more than anyone else's opinion.

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    Yer ILI, Bertrand. This comes off like "ILI rambling" to me. Niffer has weird opinions of ILI from my experience but this still comes off like rambling without factoring in her opinions of that type and your fighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I was thinking about the possibility of maybe being an ESI, although I never really seriously considered it in the past, mainly because its hard to imagine myself as going around in a cloud of Fi; but something else occured to me: for me, by far, the most gratifying life experiences, although somewhat rare compared to all sorts of other categories of experience, is ethical sensing behavior. By ethical sensing I mean taking concrete action on the basis of ethical functions. I can think of what all different kinds of combinations of functions would look like:

    • ethical intuitions: stuff like like Eckhardt Tolle blissfully sitting on a park bench for hours
    • ethical sensing: moral action in a more concrete sense. apologizing, calling people out, confessions, admissions, recompense, sacrifice, defense of others
    • logical intuitions: theoretical insight into mechanics of the world
    • logical sensing: fixing things, racing cars


    most of this is Se + Ti/Fi, but you get the idea (I think one could work up all possible combinations were they so inclined).

    Anyway, the point is that when I reflect on my life, I do a lot of logical intuition, and while I get a degree of satisfaction from that, as well as logical sensing and ethical intuitions, it seems to me that the realm of ethical sensing is paramount from the point of view of personal meaning. In other words, when I think about the most important, most gratifying moments, in retrospect and going forward (marriage proposals, having children, etc) its always the ethical sensing moments that take the cake. I'm tempted to think everyone thinks this way, mainly because its such a traditional mindset: most movies and media sort of enshrine those moments and achievements as the object and culmination of human activity. But then I think that is probably not necessarily the case... then I wonder if there's any direct relationship between type and function order and these kind of "meta values." In other words, I could see this as a manifestation of any number of functional positions (base, activating, mobilizing, etc)....

    As for me, I take great pleasure in actively making a "moral move" even it means confessing guilt or something otherwise seemingly unpleasant, especially once the hard part is over. I think a part of this is enneagram type 1 but I also think it could be an ESI thing, wherein you have your sort of confidence in Fi and then by taking action on it you fashion solutions that are creative and work for you and define your approach to life, etc etc

    I know this is all a little half baked. Thoughts?

    edit: I know some people definitely avoid my cherished mode of behavior, as if it were its exact opposite (something hateful, to be avoided at all costs): i.e.: those people that never ever admit they're wrong, even when its obvious, they're reaching for excuses, no matter how transparent and asinine, (ESE, when unhealthy tends to do this a lot... ILI too, in a different way, etc-- I would describe what these two types have in common having to do with their relationship to Ni, which takes the form of "bizarre wilful contortions of reality in order to evade ethical responsibility for their actions"-- one in an incredibly obtuse/stupefying manner the other in somersaults of Ptolemaic "logic") (Don Quixote, Huxley, and Napoleon all have their have moments too)...
    It's difficult for me to frame functions in terms of gratifying, since I think it's possible to get those sorts of feelings from different ones for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't be able to definitively trace that back to anything. This might me be helpful : http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-of-the-Psyche. It's as close to being able to define functions in this way as I can think of.
    Hey, feel free to PM me with any opinions about my type

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    It's time consuming, exhausting and ultimately futile to try to communicate with some people. I've gotten really frustrated with this kind of thing myself because I do try to explain things clearly, and if I'm not communicating I take it as my own failure. Some people discuss things to answer questions and learn things. Others just argue for the sake of arguing. No matter what you say to the latter group, they're not interested in understanding anything - so they won't be able to.

    As for the rest, you have a tendency to associate the things you don't like with beta, which imo is more based on subjective feeling than anything else. Those subjective sorts of statements and even your method of typing (I feel like I resonate more with this, etc) look to me like you're putting Fi first, and using Ti as a role. And what people are calling "Ni" again looks more like Ti role to me. You're absolutely right when you say that much is subject to interpretation and that various things can be read into things, so that's just my interpretation of it. What ends up making the most sense to you personally and your understanding ultimately matters more than anyone else's opinion.
    honestly I do think, when you get right down to it, Ti and Ni are the easiest to confuse, since both can kind of "give shape" to one's thoughts and expressions (in a kind of underlying structural fashion)... so all my ranting on Ni role, I can see, could very well have been Ti role all along

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    Yer ILI, Bertrand. This comes off like "ILI rambling" to me. Niffer has weird opinions of ILI from my experience but this still comes off like rambling without factoring in her opinions of that type and your fighting.
    I concede it very well could be Ni rambling, but does that necessarily point to, for you, base Ni?

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    Sorry for the triple post,

    taken from here:

    trusts own judgment more than others’; not prone to follow
    this is practically inconceivable to me in regards to Fi. Like as in a mind blowing logical conundrum: how can you "follow" or trust someone else's judgement in regards to what you're feeling? And yet I will categorically tell people "you're just afraid" or whatnot on occasion (ego Fi?)

    acquires new values, skills, and habits by following trusted others in real-life situations
    I feel like this is what the study of philosophy has done (in the broader, hero worship sense, not technical sense, e.g.: logic) for Ni for me (super id Ni)

    in other words, I imitate certain Ni visions of my heroes (Jung, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Unamuno, Peterson, Dostoevsky)

    strives to accumulate and follow accepted practices and rules of thumb to “bone up” and to avoid attracting attention
    this would perfectly describe my motive for studying formal logic (super ego Ti) (ever study for the LSAT? holy shit)

    ***

    I feel like at the end of the day the ability to fit oneself into any number of types (self) convincingly kind of points to typology being pure maya (Ti PoLR??) at the highest level, but I nevertheless find it really insightful

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    Well, whatever, time to make it 4,

    I read today that Dario Nardi who is a researcher at UCLA (and whose book got me into MBTI a while back), the MBTI types ISFP and INTJ show up extremely similar on brain scans; closer than any other types. Now a lot could be going on there, down to poorly typed subjects or whatever, but I thought that was an interesting connection

    perhaps people that "can see" ESI and others that see ILI are hitting upon that

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    I don't think these are the sort of things that an HA would be concerned with, rather, they'd be something the super-ego would be concerned with.

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    Haikus niffer's Avatar
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    @akash Strictly speaking the super-ego is what's conscious, but you value (which can be conscious) the super-id functions.

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    It's also (temporarily) gratifying to alleviate insecurity via feigned and easy superiority.

    But you might be right - I checked my source and I had misremembered it.

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    I think the take away seems to be that you can derive satisfaction or gratitude from any block really with no easy correlation between those feelings and type. chalk it up to being human, I guess

  37. #37
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    I think ESI makes sense. My impression of what you write is LII. But I think it's the superego.

    It's very common that an SF type has the superego emphasized, especially in a environment like this.

    I've met ESIs who basically seem like their carrying a "LII mask" or something. They might need it in their work and they might have intellectual interests. But I still notice that I am not interacting with an LII. And when the situation gets more relaxed the true ESI comes forward.

    You had a link to your picture, and you looked like a Normalizing subtype (in the DCNH system). Normalizers have almost always a clearly visible superego.

    I get the impression that people don't talk that much of the superego in this forum. But my experience is that it is very important to always take it into account and try to see if it is emphasized in the person.

    Some people have typed me ILI in real life. It was hard for me to explain that it's the superego that they're seeing.
    I also think I show some ILI thinking patterns on this forum.

    However, I'm SEI, that's crystal clear.

    Anyway, back to you. Have you experienced duality? It is very important I think to really understand your type.

    You said that you had a hard time seeing yourself in an "cloud of Fi". Maybe that was just an random expression. My impression of Fi however, would be certainty.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    i think it very much has to do with chains of benefit

    as far as experiencing duality, no not in the context of family or a long term relationship

    and I agree my characterization of Fi at that time was pejorative and a little ignorant

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