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Thread: INFjs, blood, gore, and violence

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    Default INFjs, blood, gore, and violence

    Are EIIs intolerant of blood, gore, and violence as the profiles say? Or is this a myth?

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    Se polr would suggest that that is true in most cases. Perhaps some are tolerant but never do they revel in it.

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    I have seen EII who was intolerant of seeing ball hitting a person's face mild velocity.
    Sometimes "light" banter is more than enough.

    Some IEIs OTOH might watch gore movies. Well, even I get very uncomfortable.

    But yeah ESi usually react loudly and EII get uncomfortable.
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    I'm SLE and I try to avoid seeing gore. I know two other SLEs off the top of my head that don't like it either. Given this, I doubt that positioning of Se is the best metric.
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    I hate violance in real life, I can't stand, when someone yells or screams around me either but I don't mind it in movies and art. When violance and blood is a part of an artistic expression I find it interesting but I hate when it's meaningless and raw.
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    My IEI mother nearly faints when she sees people suffer in movies or TV but she loves violent movies like The Expendables. I don't get Se-DS.
    I once described to an ESI how a nurse was close to kill my left arm in search for a good vein and he could not stand it either (he looked like he was going to barf. sorry...).
    I have no experience with types who have Se-Porl
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 03-08-2017 at 09:22 AM.

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    It's a myth... My EII brother is probably into violent/gore things more than I am. He also listens to heavy metal/death metal... I think Se PoLR has more to do with direct confrontations and physical confrontations in real life. Se has also to do with "bluffing", threats and humiliations like "I'm going to fucking kill you" "I'm going to fuck you up" "You look like a pussy" etc. It also has to do with even just making yourself look physically tougher or more threatening. I think those are the things that Se PoLR doesn't deal well with.
    Last edited by Singu; 03-08-2017 at 01:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    I'm SLE and I try to avoid seeing gore. I know two other SLEs off the top of my head that don't like it either. Given this, I doubt that positioning of Se is the best metric.
    Yeah, I hate gore too. I have to say I am extremely grateful that there are people in this world who don't mind it though. Who would patch us back up when a body part is hanging by a thread.

    My EII sister is anti-violence but we fought as children. She hit me in the head once with the phone. I think I started it every time. She and I have watched horror together. I am way more dramatic about covering my eyes and saying eww, gross, this is disgusting... She holds it together better, I think.

    She probably just quietly judges what she is watching and occasionally says, maybe we should watch something else. On her own I don't think she would choose a movie that contained violence unless it was in context and not overly done. I come from of family of horror movie lovers. It is funny but my LSI mom hates horror and gore. I would pause the screen when she walked in or warn her we were watching something gross so she could leave.

    I am against needless violence too, irl. I just think there are better ways to deal with situations. That doesn't mean I would not defend myself or someone I love though. I also could not work in any field that involves seeing real blood. I have a weak stomach. I don't even want to change a baby's diapers or take out the trash.

    Edit: I seriously don't think I could kill someone even in self defense.
    Last edited by Aylen; 03-07-2017 at 09:45 PM.

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    The title made me think of Andreas. I showed him Dr. McNinja, and he was bothered by the gore of a black-and-white comic strip.
    EIIs in general seem more inclined to avoid blood/gore/violence. But I also know an EII who likes to watch horror movies. So there might be a trend, but I'd be hesitant to call it type-related.

    I have no problem seeing blood and violence, but it should never be gratuitous. Gore can be iffy; it depends on the level.

    I think I could kill someone, but I'd need a better reason than self-defense.

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    As I will keep repeating in my posts everywhere in this forum, I don't think being a certain type is necessary OR sufficient for a person to display certain behaviors or characteristics (not all EIIs hate gore, and not everyone who hates gore is an EII). However, I think that certain types are correlated with various behaviors/characteristics, and in my experience, being an EII is definitely positively correlated with hating gore.

    It's not just because of Se PoLR, as LIIs are not as sensitive on average. I think it's the combination of Se PoLR and Fi lead. Fi lead makes it difficult for us not to imagine how we would feel in the victim's place, and Se PoLR prevents us from being fond of the visceral adrenaline rush brought on by that feeling. From Helen Fisher's work, I think types are associated with hormonal balances, and I think Se is related to dopamine/adrenaline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I hate violance in real life, I can't stand, when someone yells or screams around me either but I don't mind it in movies and art. When violance and blood is a part of an artistic expression I find it interesting but I hate when it's meaningless and raw.

    Same here. I can tolerate in movies and art because I know it's just a means of expression, not reality.
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    No none of any kind. I can't stand any violence and I feel pain at the pit of my stomach even at the anticipation of someone possibly getting hurt and I can't watch it
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    I very much dislike blood, gore, torture, etc in movies & TV shows (and obvs IRL). I dont self-type EII or ESI but who knows...
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    I used to love the SAW movies and I like violence in movies/TV shows as long as it isn't overdone to the point that it becomes useless to watch. (This might be a little bit contradictory)

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    I hate violence. Both physical and emotional abuse are very, very hard to stand and deal with (although the latter is a little bit easier than the former). That's the reason why it took me a year to watch the 1st season of GOT (I was curious why so many people watched and liked it) and why I couldn't bring myself to watch the rest. The worst nightmares I've had were those in which people were being tortured and murdered in cruel ways, and I was completely hopeless and unable to stop the acts of terror. It's painful for me to even look at any kind of physical abuse or serious injuries and blood that appear for example in TV series such as Peaky Blinders or Vikings. I can't help but shudder at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by muhtempus View Post
    Se polr would suggest that that is true in most cases. Perhaps some are tolerant but never do they revel in it.
    Basically yeah. It technically has more to do with Si mobilizing than Se vulnerable (exceptions to the rule notwithstanding). It's definitely correlated. And there is a difference between actual violence and say, violence in movies obviously. There may be something to the idea that EIIs are more sensitive due to Fi as well.

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    There are two types of blood, gore, and violence - the artistic version and the real deal. Real deal gore and violence is when the person actually suffers - sometimes, that is shown in the artistic category as well but the essence is: Once you got empathy and discomfort involved, it likely impacts as well as .

    I feel that, my blog has some blood and violent things, I'm not apalled by artistic displays of human life in its graphic details. But I can't watch someone bleeding out in the news all screaming, or a boxing match. That's all far too personal. I almost experience this pain in my body. I have to leave the room when I see surgery on TV.

    In a movie, some realistic torture scene has the same effect since I sense the person's physical suffering through myself, and I know it's so wrong. The less detachment, the more disgust and fear when it comes to these topics.

    That comes from an IEE perspective but I think you could translate it to EII since the same elements are at work, just in slightly switched channels and strengths.

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    I pretty much think most people in this world are uncomfortable with *actual* violence...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I pretty much think most people in this world are uncomfortable with *actual* violence...
    What's with those committing it, or those on the streets familiar with it, sadistic people? And the curious cheering bystanders you get in so many cases, the media craze with reporting it? Desensitized people? Soldiers in war - *actual* violence - getting aroused by their own crimes and those of others before their eyes (there are countless reports out there)... And so on. It's not easy to generalize :/ You're speaking from your comfort zone, out there - it's wild af with not everyone experiencing discomfort but the exact opposite. Violence can be a thrill, that's why action and horror movies are so successful selling us the unicorn version of it.

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    Ok yeah, considering that most people would prefer not to commit heinous acts of violence (without good reason, that is) + we glorify violence in the media, it may seem as if there's no correlation between type and an aversion to blood/violence/gore, but there is.

    The difference between EIIs and other types is that the discomfort lingers. Context matters too. My mom and brother (EII) can watch Game of Thrones because they understand that it's not real + it serves a (fictional) purpose, but it hits a much deeper place, and they may not even realize how deep it hits them until they stop exposing themselves to those things and realize how much happier they are for it, hence: "...for every event, even those popularly deemed insignificant, leaves a trace in her soul that survives for a long time." among other Si HA/Se PoLR excerpts from the descriptions.

    It's the aftermath, not the simple act of avoidance, that separates EIIs from other types. IEEs are similar. So it's not as if the alternative is SLEs reveling in it. It's that it may make them uncomfortable in the moment so they'd prefer not to expose themselves to it, but it won't stick with them for weeks/months, and, if it does, then it's probably not an SLE? Otherwise you're reworking the whole system to fit something that just doesn't fit.
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    I don't readed all the post but I bet while it's still fantasy, INFj can take it and like it, but there is moment in their life they connect fantasy more to reality, and at these time they can hate it even in fantasy... Quite simplistic...
    Paranoid is right imo with the fact that discomfort linger, aside what he depict is perhaps due to a dichotomy (don't have access to wikisocion at this time but there was a dichotomy with a notion about ppl having hard time to detach from past emotionnal impression, perhaps merry/serious but not sure) then not solelly the domain of INFj

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    You are somewhat conscious of your PoLR (I can argue about ethical conventions pretty easily and show huge amounts of weak points ) but your act is not aligned accordingly (this is more in the moment stuff).

    So you see it while being clueless resulting none or too much.

    Same thing with suggestive where you are not fully conscious but you are receptive to it.
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    I cannot handle it. Cartoon violence is okay. Incidental violence is okay. Focus on morbidity or gore, e.g., Saw, is not okay.

    My own blood doesn't bother me. Others' blood or injuries I can't handle.

    If pressured into physical confrontation, and it actually happens, my mind loses all reason and effect, but I am conscious. I basically turn into the Terminator. No speaking. No blinking. Pain receptors turn off. Not cognizant of injuries. Angular movements. If a friend isn't around, I don't stop until blacked out.

    Trypophobia.

    I can force myself to watch gore etc., but it forces a personality shift into SEE.

    It stems from the seat of EII neurosis, which is harm/attack. EII are phobic of injuring others. Well, afraid. Phobia begins and increases as you go deeper into EII land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
    Ok yeah, considering that most people would prefer not to commit heinous acts of violence (without good reason, that is) + we glorify violence in the media, it may seem as if there's no correlation between type and an aversion to blood/violence/gore, but there is.

    The difference between EIIs and other types is that the discomfort lingers. Context matters too. My mom and brother (EII) can watch Game of Thrones because they understand that it's not real + it serves a (fictional) purpose, but it hits a much deeper place, and they may not even realize how deep it hits them until they stop exposing themselves to those things and realize how much happier they are for it, hence: "...for every event, even those popularly deemed insignificant, leaves a trace in her soul that survives for a long time." among other Si HA/Se PoLR excerpts from the descriptions.

    It's the aftermath, not the simple act of avoidance, that separates EIIs from other types. IEEs are similar. So it's not as if the alternative is SLEs reveling in it. It's that it may make them uncomfortable in the moment so they'd prefer not to expose themselves to it, but it won't stick with them for weeks/months, and, if it does, then it's probably not an SLE? Otherwise you're reworking the whole system to fit something that just doesn't fit.
    This is interesting the idea of the 'lingering' sentiment or something. I find i can watch stuff like that but it might stay with me for a while even if i self-type differently. I can see how what you say can play out though, interesting insight.
    Last edited by Delilah; 06-07-2017 at 10:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I cannot handle it. Cartoon violence is okay. Incidental violence is okay. Focus on morbidity or gore, e.g., Saw, is not okay.

    My own blood doesn't bother me. Others' blood or injuries I can't handle.

    If pressured into physical confrontation, and it actually happens, my mind loses all reason and effect, but I am conscious. I basically turn into the Terminator. No speaking. No blinking. Pain receptors turn off. Not cognizant of injuries. Angular movements. If a friend isn't around, I don't stop until blacked out.

    Trypophobia.

    I can force myself to watch gore etc., but it forces a personality shift into SEE.

    It stems from the seat of EII neurosis, which is harm/attack. EII are phobic of injuring others. Well, afraid. Phobia begins and increases as you go deeper into EII land.
    Like I suspected in another thread, age turned you in an plain idiot. One of the first stuff socionic should be teaching you is to focus yourself on your strenght, not your weakness. Use your weakness to strenghten you strength, like a friend of mine said (and he have nothing to do with socionic, personnality typing and all these neurosis).

    Perhaps we have not the same age but I already passed over the phase of drug deal, risky fight, being in permanent pressure due to what's next thing wich will happen. That's fucked up. And from the ppl Ive seen, these attitude are even fucked up for our contrary quadra, speaking mainly from ESTp (INFP have far less anxiety than myself when it come to possible fight, was with one of them for some time for drug stuff/bad plan (Ive met ESTp and seen how their life/thinking evolve more as client than d.d (don't wan't even write the stuff)), but I bet INFP end to understand the same things as ESTp and make them a bit more "socially normal" with age. But it seem they (INFP) are more loopy : they alternate beetween doing "bad" (for us at least) stuff and doing regular stuff trying having a work and all. They are doing just all what's about living complete life all the time, trying to be no permanent moral included.)) (some alpha perhaps can say me if Ive done a parenthesis fail lol)

    Are you just aware of your vanity. Myself didn't had the vanity to include stuff like yours (or mine in this post, wich was used for example mainly) in my previous response in the thread.
    Last edited by noaydi; 06-06-2017 at 12:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Like I suspected in another thread, age turned you in an plain idiot. One of the first stuff socionic should be teaching you is to focus yourself on your strenght, not your weakness. Use your weakness to strenghten you strength, like a friend of mine said (and he have nothing to do with socionic, personnality typing and all these neurosis).

    Perhaps we have not the same age but I already passed over the phase of drug deal, risky fight, being in permanent pressure due to what's next thing wich will happen. That's fucked up. And from the ppl Ive seen, these attitude are even fucked up for our contrary quadra, speaking mainly from ESTp (INFP have far less anxiety than myself when it come to possible fight, was with one of them for some time for drug stuff/bad plan (Ive met ESTp and seen how their life/thinking evolve more as client than d.d (don't wan't even write the stuff)), but I bet INFP end to understand the same things as ESTp and make them a bit more "socially normal" with age. But it seem they (INFP) are more loopy : they alternate beetween doing "bad" (for us at least) stuff and doing regular stuff trying having a work and all. They are doing just all what's about living complete life all the time, trying to be no permanent moral included.)

    Are you just aware of your vanity. Myself didn't had the vanity to include stuff like yours (or mine here) in my previous response in the thread.
    ? I was answering a question, not asking one.

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    This is my answer to you answering a question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    This is my answer to you answering a question.
    So, you're saying I have flawed thinking and should strengthen my Fi?

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    Oh for the thread : I would like to see how ESTp see violence and stuff.

    Because at the end, for INFj, responding to the question of the thread, we can say "yes".
    I disclose Ill extrapolate my case as it's easier for me to write like that.

    Fellow INFj, look at it this way : violence, gore and stuff, before seeing it for the first time, how did you get attracted to it ? It was like if it was a passion, a kind of stuff "risky" to do because I bet you instictively know you will have hard time to sustain it. Am I wrong ? When looking to gore and stuff, you was testing yourself in term of "can I go over my feeling" and/or "I can resist what I despise" in a way.

    I would like to see for ESTp how it was for the first time they watched gore and stuff, if at the end it was the same so I'm wrong

    edit : I'm not sure of what I'm saying as now I remember the first "fear" movie Ive seen, but I wasn't warned that it was one, so it break everything on my reasonning perhaps. (If you take into account that I had seen previously a gore stuff without knowing it is one, for sur the next time Ill see one there will be a choice to do : no I don't want to see this as this made me experience bad emotion/yes I wan't to test myself - and after experiencing gore and stuff, I bet that this reasonning is universal between all personnality type)

    edit : no no no no I remember much more. It's like Ive said in the first place, with gun/gore etc coming as a kind of passion for us, meaning we are going "against us"

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    Not really, no.

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    okay I'm alone :'(

    perhaps it's the word choice one more time ^^ it seem it can hurt sensibilities x)

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    Mine was simply due to violence not being acceptable by my parents. I was stronger than peers. People with inferiority complexes always target the strong guy. Self-defense was considered violence. I was fussed at about it. It developed into a neurosis due to such.

    Fi+ > Se- plain and simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    okay I'm alone :'(

    perhaps it's the word choice one more time ^^ it seem it can hurt sensibilities x)
    Your English is kind of hard to read. Sorry, I'm sure you work hard at it.

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    Wait are u -edit : you- sure you aren't ESTj ? you seem okay with Se. Personnally, ppl - edit : people - say I'm stronger than X, or Y from my physical aspect, but I don't see me as strong at all... I've absolutely no faith in my physicality

    I would like to have a world where Fi+ == Se-. And I bet it's the case. Contrary quadra can't really go over themself since history. Hitler fucked up with jew thinking they was all delta, but he didn't read Jung then failed ^^. (I'm going to give some idea to the next hitler) (not sure of my interpretation though lol)


    Seeing if you are ESTj is simple : have you ever said to an INFj friend in occidental country "go to a country where there is violence, rape..." or kind of stuff like that for making him miserable ^^.
    Last edited by noaydi; 06-06-2017 at 01:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Wait are u -edit : you- sure you aren't ESTj ? you seem okay with Se. Personnally, ppl - edit : people - say I'm stronger than X, or Y from my physical aspect, but I don't see me as strong at all... I've absolutely no faith in my physicality

    I would like to have a world where Fi+ == Se-. And I bet it's the case. Contrary quadra can't really go over themself since history. Hitler fucked up with jew thinking they was all delta, but he didn't read Jung then failed ^^. (I'm going to give some idea to the next hitler) (not sure of my interpretation thought lol)

    Seeing if you are ESTj is simple : have you ever said to an INFj friend in occidental country "go to a country where there is violence, rape..." or kind of stuff like that for making him miserable ^^.
    If you don't have faith in your Se, then why suppress it?

    I am trying to balance my functions, because that's normal. I do not view the sociotypes as benefits. I view them as flaws.

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    I doesn't supress it ! I never said it. Just Ive no faith in it. Use your force instead your weakness meant "let your weakness evolve by themself and do what you are meant to do/use fct you are meant to use speaking in the socionic way" in a way.

    Balancing function is another view that I can respect yes.

    Can you expands your view on sociotypes being a flaw ? this seem freudian from the first place.

    I was having this intuition too at some time but it's like if in some way we can imagine an "overtype" if you see them as a flaw, wich isn't very reasonnable if we are staying on the paradigm "jungian typologie is the truth". Even in itself at the end. Nietzsche have done that thought, in his imagination.


    Edit : I got the stuff. If you view them as a flaw, it's because you are concentrated on your neurosis and this is fucking your way of seeing stuff (no pun intended - this is just imo and all way of viewing things have some universalities in them.). The end of your neurosis is when you will understand what I said "Use your force instead your weakness". Perhaps it have some benefit to be concentrated on the neurosis thought, some benefit about self actualization or idk what.
    Last edited by noaydi; 06-06-2017 at 01:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    I doesn't supress it ? I never say it. Just Ive no faith in it. Use your force instead your weakness meant "let your weakness evolve by themself and do what you are meant to do/use fct you are meant to use speaking in the socionic way" in a way.

    Balancing function is another view that I can respect yes.

    Can you expands your view on sociotypes being a flaw ? this seem freudian from the first place.

    I was having this intuition too at some time but it's like if in some way we can imagine an "overtype" if you see them as a flaw, wich isn't very reasonnable if we are staying on the paradigm "jungian typologie is the truth". Even in itself at the end. Nietzsche have done that thought, in his imagination.


    Edit : I got the stuff. If you view them as a flaw, it's because you are concentrated on your neurosis and this is fucking your way of seeing stuff (no pun intended). The end of your neurosis is when you will understand what I said "Use your force instead your weakness". Perhaps it have some benefit to be concentrated on the neurosis thought, some benefit about self actualization or idk what.
    Sociotypes just aren't normal, is all. You can look at each types strengths, or their weaknesses, but that doesn't mean they aren't just their own form of weird.

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    a yes but I see normality encompassing socionic personnaly, and it's more about a social stuff and some attitude everyone can have... Normal is not socionic related imho.

    I was thinking you was speaking about some form of devellopemental illness from sociotype, everyone being the same at origin and stuff at the beginning this was a bit the kind of intuition I had in the past, but got over it

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    One reason why I haven't typed myself INFj - as many people have brought it up as a possibility - is because I love horror movies and macabre stuff. I want to buy a genuine boar skull to hang on my wall for instance (they sell them in some antiques shops and stores as decorative ornaments.) This doesn't seem INFj-ish to me. I think gore is overused in horror movies, but sometimes fascinating in a gross way. I've never seen any gore/real violence irl so I think that would traumatize me but in movies? Ew but not a big deal at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    It's a myth... My EII brother is probably into violent/gore things more than I am. He also listens to heavy metal/death metal... I think Se PoLR has more to do with direct confrontations and physical confrontations in real life. Se has also to do with "bluffing", threats and humiliations like "I'm going to fucking kill you" "I'm going to fuck you up" "You look like a pussy" etc. It also has to do with even just making yourself look physically tougher or more threatening. I think those are the things that Se PoLR doesn't deal well with.
    This is funny and another reason I'm not INFj! I have actually told guys to stop being a pussy and a little bitch before when I was mad...I would agree here actually because thinking about it now, people of all types like or dislike horror movies. I know an SLE who hates them

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