Fredrik Reinfeldt, Sweden's new prime minister
Fredrik Reinfeldt - Google Bildsökning
I predict this guy (Fredrik Reinfeldt) to become Sweden's new prime minister after the election now on Sunday. I have thought of his type without quite "getting it" -- until I think I "saw the light" some minutes ago. I'm still not sure, though, so any suggestions are welcome. Which type does V.I. alone indicate?
My gut reaction was (for god only knows what reason) ESTj, but I think INTp is more likely. Definitely a tough VI, though.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Why do you think INTp is more likely?Originally Posted by gilligan87
He only has one facial expression. Not a very "feelery" type at least.
Which types do you think are the most unlikely?
ESFj, ESFp, ENFp come first to mind.
Based on many things he has said in public and his way of arguing, he seems to be a Tactician in the Reinin dichotomies.
http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=5874
Mine too. Looks like my ESTj boss.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
It is now clear that Fredrik Reinfeldt will take over as prime minister of Sweden.
Thinking about what type he might be has been a very interesting experience for me. It has been confusing, because I have not been able to find a perfect match between his V.I. look, some aspects of his behaviour and some other aspects of him as a person.
But during the last couple of days I have read a very interesting biography of him, published this year. And that reading has revealed some interesting facts about Fredrik Reinfeldt:
He is a structured person, capable of planning and organizing both for himself and for others – typical leader qaulities according to his mother, who is a leadership consultant. She has tested him and his two brothers with different tests and methods ever since they were very young. According to those tests he has a rational coping behaviour and a generalist profile. He is not inclined to take risks.
Everyone describes him as a very calm person. He has a controlled temperament. He almost never gets angry or agitated. He is always calm, balanced and composed, not at all choleric.
He is a serious person, almost too serious in his professional role. He chooses his battles very carefully, and sometimes he holds himself back when others might think that he should push forward more strongly.
He knows what he wants and sets up a strategy to reach his goals. Many people's impression of him is that he is controlled, goal-oriented and serious, almost boring. He is described as someone who puts strong demands on himself and on others. He is not very sentimental.
In his school work he used to do his homework before he went out to play with his friends. His family environment was very ordered. The picture of him as a well-structured and reliable person is accentuated by the fact that he has been very interested in collecting stamps.
As a leader he is not reluctant to reveal his strategic views. He thinks strategically and is very aware of how things he says might effect the image of the party. He wants to control that media image. In his contacts with journalists he is correct and keeps a distance. He is always focused on the task at hand. He never lowers his guard.
He wants to get results, and some people see him as a pragmatist, ready to compromise. He has managed to change the image of his party from a rather clear right-wing party to a more midstream party. It has changed somewhat from a conservative party with libertarian overtunes to a more social conservative party with a more human touch. The differences between his party and the Social Democrats, who has been the dominating party for many years, has diminished.
He is often described as a lonely wolf. He has integrity. Sometimes he withdrawns, seeking solitude and calm to read a good book. His mother describes him as "very mental" with "lots of thoughts and analyses". He is self-sufficient. He is not a paricularly social person, who is focused on building networks. On the contrary he has once compared them with coteries. He sees himself as a self-made man.
He has a very good working relationship with this woman (Maud Olofsson), who is the leader of the Centre Party, which is also a member of the new coalition Alliance for Sweden that will lead Sweden the next four years to come:
http://www.centerpartiet.se/
http://images.google.se/images?q=mau...%C3%B6k+bilder
In my opinion Maud Olofsson is a very clear example of an ESFj. She and Fredrik Reinfeldt have realized that the chemistry is very good between them. They think alike strategically and it is easy for them to cooperate. They have had close professional contact for a long time now, and they also meet in private as good friends.
What do you now think of his type?
Lol. Am I only imagining or does he look like the leader of the Finnish social democratic party who I think might be ESTj and might be the next Finnish Prime Minister.
Well, they share some outward traits: baldness comes to mind. As for being the same type...I doubt it. The second guy has the look of the IJ temperment for sure, is probably a thinker, and I would say is more likely a sensor than an intuitive. So ISTj is my bet. But I'm sticking with INTp for the first guy.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Before you mentioned it, and before I read the biography about him, I had thought about INTp as a very surprising possibility.
I don't think he looks like a typical INTp, but I could see some V.I. traits of that, and I can identify with some of his personal traits, like his way of arguing and that he seemed to think like a Tactician. I also had thought about INFp as a possible explanations of why I could identify with his way of thinking and of why he sometimes comes across as almost an ethical type and/or a possible Enneatype 9.
A big problem with both those hypotheses, especially the hypothesis that he is an INTp, is that he has all these leader qualities. I could never even imagine myself being in his position, having the goals he has and living his kind of life. Another strong argument against INTp is his very good relation with that ESFj, Maud Olofsson.
If you try to disregard his look, which type(s) do you think is the best fit for the description of him?
ISTj works for me I suppose
For that guy? O_o;
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Hmm ... That picture of a younger Reinfeldt has always strongly reminded me of someone, but not until you mentioned ISTj I could place it. Now I realize that he looks almost like an exact copy of a high school friend of mine, that I haven't seen in about 4-5 years. That friend of mine has tested as ISTJ, and he also identifies with MBTI ISTJ descriptions.
Sounds a way too boring person
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
what do you suggest?
Suddenly it all makes sense. Fredrik Reinfeldt must be an ISTj.
Everything fits that hypothesis perfectly, even some small details that I didn't mention in my description of him, like his sleeping habits. He gets up early in the morning, tries to go to bed early, and sleeps without worries like a child. He doesn't like alcohol very much, he doesn't smoke, and has always been very obedient. In all that he is very similar to another ISTj friend of mine, who I meet regularly. They both share the same very characteristic and obvious IJ temperament, and it makes perfect sense to me to think of both of them as Betas.
For a moment I even thought that Reinfeldt could be an INTj, but he doesn't look like an INTj and he doesn't have the typical INTj body type. I don't understand why I didn't realize earlier that he must be an ISTj instead. If we look at his face we should see that especially the lower part of it indicates that he is an S type. And if he was an INTj I would have been wrong about him being a Tactician. Now that piece also fits.
So, the almost inevitable conclusion is that Fredrik Reinfeldt is an ISTj. Thanks everyone for contributing. Special credit to Joy for suggesting the correct type. Case closed.
IMHO Reinfeldt is an ESTP. I don't know that I have any real arguments, except that it seems to me he supervises the prime minister (INTJ) in a lot of debates.
And this is the "former" prime minister right (the guy Reinfeldt is replacing)?
Why you think he is INTj? Gilligan VI him? I never before thought of him as INTj.
There's no way that an ESTp fits the description gave by phaedrus.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I can guarantee that Göran Persson is not an INTj. That is an almost absurd thought. His look and body type are extremely far remote from an INTj, and nothing in his behaviour supports that view, except the obvious fact that he is a logical (T) type.
I was thinking of contrasting Fredrik Reinfeldt with Göran Persson, though, because Persson seems to be a clear example of a Strategist in the Reinin dichotomies. I think that the most likely (almost the only possible) types in his case are ESTp (probably) or ENTj (just maybe). Now, when we know that Reinfeldt is an ISTj, a Mirror relation seems to be the best explanation for their respective behaviours in debates, suggesting that Persson is indeed an ESTp. I can relate to their behaviours and the typical debate climate between them, when I compare with my many debates with an ENTj friend of mine.
To think of Reinfeldt as an ESTp is even more absurd. Nothing supports that hypothesis.
Actually when thinking a bit more about it I guess ISTJ fits better...
As for Göran Persson being INTJ there are more things to point to. One thing that shows all the time is his difficulty in approximating how much Se to use in debates. Sometimes he tries to sound respectable, but instead comes of as a screaming overreactive zealot, other times he comes of way too timid. He is also the king of Ne... He frequently says things like "well, maybe..." followed by a bunch of possible situations, rather than giving one generalized answer.
To get some more conflict going I guess I could add that I believe Maud Olofsson is ESFP. No sign of a Ni-polr there IMHO...
she looks like red foreman
But there is no way he can be an INTj. If you believe that your view of INTjs is seriously twisted. No real life INTj can look like him. Based on V.I. and all the other things we seem to agree on, there is a stong case for ESTp.
I agree that it might be possible to think of Olofsson as an ESFp. But based on V.I. she clearly looks like a typical ESFj.To get some more conflict going I guess I could add that I believe Maud Olofsson is ESFP. No sign of a Ni-polr there IMHO...
Man; ESFP
Woman: INTP perhaps, enfj is also possible.
Their parents; each of them has at least one ESFJ parent, the guys' mothers probably is ESFJ, the woman could have an ESFJ father instead.
Sweden is of course INTJ.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
This is the first time I can say with 100 % certainty that your typing is incorrect. If you could see and hear them talking, you would agree with me that it is 100 % certain that the Man (I assume you refer to the former prime minister Göran Persson) is a T type. He looks and acts like an ESTp.
The woman is as far remote of an INTp as anyone possibly can be. It is 100 % certain that she is an ExFx type, and she is not an ENFp. She looks and acts like an ESFj.
I didn't understand what people were talking about when Dmitri Lytov first mentioned it, but after reading Stratiyevskaya's INTj description it makes more sense. I'm still not sure that it must be correct, though.Sweden is of course INTJ.
This is the first time I can say with 100 % certainty that your typing is incorrect. If you could see and hear them talking, you would agree with me that it is 100 % certain that the Man (I assume you refer to the former prime minister Göran Persson) is a T type. He looks and acts like an ESTp.
The woman is as far remote of an INTp as anyone possibly can be. It is 100 % certain that she is an ExFx type, and she is not an ENFp. She looks and acts like an ESFj.
I am pretty sure that the guy is ESFP. Keep an open mind and perhaps in a few months or years you will agree with me or perhaps not.Sweden is of course INTJ.
I didn't understand what people were talking about when Dmitri Lytov first mentioned it, but after reading Stratiyevskaya's INTj description it makes more sense. I'm still not sure that it must be correct, though.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
You mean Göran Persson, don't you? Do you have any arguments for that claim other than your own V.I.? I have heard and seen him acting many, many times, and I can assure you that if you had the chance to do that, you would agree with me. He is a logical type, there is no question about that.
If you are not talking about Göran Persson but Fredrik Reinfeldt, there is still a very, very slight possibility that he is an ethical type. It is almost 100 % certain that he is an ISTj, but if he is not, then he just might be an ISFj. But that is very unlikely. Every other type than ISTj or ISFj can be ruled out for Reinfeldt at this point.
ESFP: Reinfelt, I thought he was the PM.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Yes, Reinfeldt will be the new prime minister in a couple of weeks when the new government has been formed. If you read my summary in this thread of some facts about Reinfeldt, you will realize that it is absolutely out of the question that he is an ESFp.
I dislike being so "absolute", but I agree with Phaedrus in this case. I saw him on TV, and, come on - - just compare him to likely ESFps Gerhard Schröder or Silvio Berlusconi.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Some quotes from him:Yes, Reinfeldt will be the new prime minister in a couple of weeks when the new government has been formed. If you read my summary in this thread of some facts about Reinfeldt, you will realize that it is absolutely out of the question that he is an ESFp.
Don't believe the opinion polls. Persuade neighbours and friends to go vote,
phantis 18-SEP-06
We want to show that we like the Sweden we have,
RSS 18-SEP-06
It was team work that helped us win,
ABCnewsRSS 18-SEP-06
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Come on Dioklecian,
There is only one type that says that kind of bullshit, all over the world:
The "Professional Politician" type.
That doesn't mean that they are actually ESFp, even though this is the most "typically politician" type.
If it looks like a duck, squaks like a duck...it might well be a duck. How many INTJ professional poiliticians do you know?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
By comparison look what idiotic mess the ESFJ PM of Hungary caused in his country with his recent comments.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Are you implying that every professional politician is ESFp or similar? Sheer nonsense, although I would agree that ESFps are probably over-represented in that profession.
As for INTj politicians, I can easily list two:
Angela Merkel, German Chancellor
Thabo Mbeki, President of South Africa
And Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi, who's probably an INFj but might also be INTj; anyway very different from ESFp.
Actually I have met Prodi and he is ENTP. Merkel is ISTJ IMO. Mbeki could well be INTJ.Are you implying that every professional politician is ESFp or similar? Sheer nonsense, although I would agree that ESFps are probably over-represented in that profession.
As for INTj politicians, I can easily list two:
Angela Merkel, German Chancellor
Thabo Mbeki, President of South Africa
And Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi, who's probably an INFj but might also be INTj; anyway very different from ESFp.
Again though, Prodi is an Economist, Mbeki some sort of intellectual, not sure about Merkel.
Its' not the fact that he is a politician that makes me think ghe is ESFP, but the way he speaks, his mentality makes me think ESFP. Each type is capable of making a living as a politician but they would speak diffrenetly, reflecting their types, within the confines of the profession.
As I say in my other post: look how stupid the comments of the ESFJ PM of Hungary have turned out to be. He meant them to gain favour with the people but in fact he turned them against himself, and quite violently.
Look at Robesperrie, the quintessential unfortunate politician: he was beheaded in the very device that he created by the same people that he brought to power.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Mbeki and his BS about how AIDS is cured by fruite juice, is an ESFJ.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
However, Göran Persson is INTJ.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
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