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Thread: "Caring" Si types as "childlike"

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    Default "Caring" Si types as "childlike"

    I'm an ESE and the childlike description suits me much better than the caregiver description.
    Alternatively I know of an IEE who is much more a caretaker than "child like".
    That said all the LSE and SLI I know are caretakers but some types in the Delta and Alpha quadras that are deemed caregivers seem like infantiles and vice versa.

    Any thoughts on this?
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



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    Idk but I like this because it removes the only real obstacle in the way of me being ESE.

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    It's said that both attitudes typically exist in a person, and you alternate between the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    Any thoughts on this?
    Could be a couple of things.

    Subtypes. Fe-ESE has stronger Ne hidden agenda and will project as being more "childlike" than Si-ESE. Ti-LIIs will sometimes behave in a serious and delta-ST manner. IEE-Fi will be more of a "caregiver" than IEE-Ne. In dualities of different subtypes the roles are almost flipped around.

    Another thing is that socionics is not the only typology out there. Other typologies also contribute to one's image, and sometimes their associated traits will run contrary to what is predicted in socionics. For example, with instincts Sp is associated with childhood, Sx - with adulthood, and Soc - with mature age. Certain enneagram types are described as more carefree, playful, imaginative (e.g. 7) and others as more serious, having gravitas (e.g. 8). So, for instance, if you have an IEE so/sp 6 that person is going to project themselves closer to what's described of socionics "caring" types when compared to an IEE sp/sx 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Could be a couple of things.

    Subtypes. Fe-ESE has stronger Ne hidden agenda and will project as being more "childlike" than Si-ESE. Ti-LIIs will sometimes behave in a serious and delta-ST manner. IEE-Fi will be more of a "caregiver" than IEE-Ne. In dualities of different subtypes the roles are almost flipped around.
    This makes perfect sense. My friend who is quite "maternal" in her style of interaction is an IEE-Fi. Recently I used an artificial sweetener in my drink and the IEE-Fi said: "You shouldn't do that! Those are bad for you." I would have almost assumed she was an ESE if I didn't know better.

    LSEs and SLIs seem to always be paternal/maternal as opposed to childlike but with the IEE, EII, ESE there seems to be more flipping around and you are right about the Ne HA.
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



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    ESEs are caregivers in the sense of being able to empathize with someone's plight and trying to offer advice and do things to resolve their issues; they're more dutiful than nurturing. They can be so focused on others that they sometimes ignore themselves and thus can need someone else to look after them; and they also seek interaction with others to resolve their own issues. These tendencies can make ESE appear childlike at times but this is an illusion; one merely has to dig deeper into processing structure/motivation. I see IEE as potentially much more nurturing than ESE but not nearly as dutiful; IEEs can be somewhat naïve (childlike) regarding the needs of others so the title caregiver would not really fit them as much as it would ESE - your perception of what would be caregiver and childlike seems to different from mine but I wouldn't attach these words to type because they can be rather misleading......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I will join the chorus to say i also act childlike sometimes - often it's to bring a lightheartedness to the ambiance. My mentality is not immature though and i wont act immature, so this does not include things like temper tantrums if i dont get my way. Just a lighthearted childlikeness, superficially, like e.g. joking in a baby voice or something. I also tend to default to an innocent view of the world, but in some cases not - like I was not gullible at all about DT & gang, saw the evil potential from day #1 (even before day #1). But was a bit innocent in the sense that i assumed the vast majority of people in the US would see through his act.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    I'm an ESE and the childlike description suits me much better than the caregiver description.
    Alternatively I know of an IEE who is much more a caretaker than "child like".
    That said all the LSE and SLI I know are caretakers but some types in the Delta and Alpha quadras that are deemed caregivers seem like infantiles and vice versa.

    Any thoughts on this?
    I find this to be true and it was listed by Socionics Britannica a couple of months ago.

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    True caregiving/infantile relations are between Ni and Si leads, especially in Alpha since Delta has the concept of pseudo-caregiving/infantile. Having Si or Ne in the creative position sort of creates a diffusion.

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    I generally think the erotic styles are overblown, but slater had an interesting take on them: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ays-every-role

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I generally think the erotic styles are overblown, but slater had an interesting take on them: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ays-every-role
    This is good:

    EGO FUNCTIONS:

    Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

    Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

    Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

    Mental caregiver, emotional victim

    Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

    Mental victim, emotional caregiver
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



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    What is a spiritual victim?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    Someone looking for being shaken in its beliefs ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater
    In this case, "protect"=Caregiver>Infantile and "make happy"=Aggressor>Victim

    What is an aggressor? Someone who's good at something (mental, emotional, spiritual or physical field) and likes to show it, specially to the victims.

    A caregiver? Someone who's good at something but prefers to keep a low profile and help infantiles to keep up.

    A victim? Someone who's bad at something but wants to improve this weak trait and "challenge the aggressor".

    An infantile? Someone who's bad at something and is not interested in enhancing such weak trait-not even in let others know about the very existence of the weak trait, but prefers and welcomes a caregiver's help.
    spiritual is just the word he used for anything in the realms of Ni or Ne

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    Si changes oneself physically to adapt to others, so therefore "care-taking" (like a parent sacrificing him/herself physically for the child)
    Ne mentally demands others to adapt to its ways, therefore "infantile" (like a child that demands parents to get his/her way)

    Ni changes oneself mentally to adapt to others, so therefore "victim" (an indecisive, self-sacrificing adult)
    Se physically demands others to adapt to its ways, therefore "aggressor" (like a bossy authority)
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Augustinavichiute
    The goal of our work is to try to penetrate into the models of the psyche projected by Jung, to show which positions and categories can be considered completely proved and irrefutable.
    https://translate.google.com/transla...t.html&prev=_t

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    spiritual is just the word he used for anything in the realms of Ni or Ne
    well i got as much from that post - my question was how exactly would that manifest. Shining suggested someone looking to be shaken in their beliefs. Any other thoughts?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    SLI and LSEs are like little boys
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    SLI and LSEs are like little boys
    No that's the Ne types. Ne types are usually spoiled as children, because they demand that they get want they want. Ne types are like little boys and girls.

    While Si and Ni types usually stay in the background, seemingly not wanting anything for themselves.

    Tsk tsk... shameful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No that's the Ne types. Ne types are usually spoiled as children, because they demand that they get want they want. Ne types are like little boys and girls.

    While Si and Ni types usually stay in the background, seemingly not wanting anything for themselves.

    Tsk tsk... shameful.
    No they are like little boys because they want to play with motorcycles and not adult responsibilities hahah
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    This is good:

    EGO FUNCTIONS:

    Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

    Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

    Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

    Mental caregiver, emotional victim

    Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

    Mental victim, emotional caregiver
    Yes, this is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    I'm not sure, but I still relate to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    No they are like little boys because they want to play with motorcycles and not adult responsibilities hahah
    I have no interest in playing with motorcycles.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    SLI and LSEs are like little boys
    Really? They seem so paternal to me. At least the males do.
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Yes, this is good.


    I'm not sure, but I still relate to it.


    I have no interest in playing with motorcycles.
    We should get into it together
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    This is good:

    EGO FUNCTIONS:

    Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

    Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

    Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

    Mental caregiver, emotional victim

    Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

    Mental victim, emotional caregiver
    This is a huge improvement over the original erotic styles.

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    Matter of degree and you supposedly like that mentality...
    Let's think of case like this:
    Someone is pressuring LII. ESE reacts and takes care of it.
    ILE is all over the place. SEI: Let's turn that shirt inside out, your shoelaces are open, put socks on, your hat is crooked and does not cover your ears...
    Measuring you right now

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    I think that need for combustible engines is common among all STs. I know one who attached tractor's engine to a bicycle when he was a child.... He recommends it to nobody.
    Measuring you right now

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    .
    Last edited by Ragdoll Cat; 10-06-2019 at 05:47 AM.

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    I know an infantile ESE, I think it was due to childhood trauma and not getting all the toys and care they wanted though.

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    Physical aggressor (Se Lead) , spiritual infantile (Ne Role)

    Physical caregiver (Si Lead) , spiritual victim (Ni Role)

    Physical infantile (Ne Lead) , spiritual aggressor (Se Role)

    Physical victim (Ni Lead) , spiritual caregiver (Si Role)

    Mental aggressor (Te Lead), emotional infantile (Fe Role)



    The rest doesnt make much sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    I found this and looks interesting.


    Spiritual abuse is the abuse of the human spirit. And while many would say that the spirit cannot be wounded, it is definitely possible to split off from conscious awareness of the spirit. It is possible to live a life totally bereft of any real connection to the spirit—a term used here synonymously with soul and authentic Self. We can live so identified with a role, a mask, and costume, that we do not even allow the mind to wander into the fields, climb the mountains, swim the oceans of the human spirit. That’s what spiritual abuse does. It cuts us off from spirit so that we don’t live in it or from it.

    How does that happen? Well, it can happen as a result of other kinds of abuse. When a child is physically abused, for example, that child might identify as a “bad kid” who deserves to be punished. This might mean that he will act out, expecting to get punished or trying to strategize as to how to avoid it. Either way, he has not identified with his own true Self, his deepest essence, his soul, his spirit. Where does that spirit go? It goes into the unconscious, where it is only allowed out at night when this young man is dreaming. How sad, how angry, how small, how “bad” will he have to be before he can wake up to who he actually is?

    But it can also happen whenever someone tries to tell you how to feel, what to think and/or what to believe so much that your own original thoughts, feelings and beliefs are not allowed into the room. A case in which someone is told by a spiritual leader, for example, that the reason she had an auto accident was that she’d been thinking negative thoughts, that she needs to control her negative thinking to keep negative things from happening to her. This has the potential to raise so much anxiety that she will try ever after that to push away (repress) any negative thoughts or feelings and to replace them with what seems to be positive thoughts and feelings. This puts her in a constant, moment-by-moment battle with her own inner world so that she cannot allow thoughts to arise, and feelings to be made conscious. No, she must fight these off to make sure nothing negative ever happens to her. This is spiritual abuse because it teaches her to go to war with her own spirit.

    Or, what about instances in which children are beaten by spiritual mentors of a certain philosophy because they cannot stand out in the snow barefoot. They were supposed to learn mind over body. But they could not do it, so they were beaten. This is not only physical abuse but spiritual abuse for it teaches the child to ignore his own inner world in favor of a philosophy that may or may not work for him.

    Or, what about children who are made on Halloween to walk through a so-called “haunted house” in which terrible visions of torturous hell are played out dramatically, thus terrifying the children into believing that if they don’t get “saved” right away they may go, that very night, to that terrible torturous place for all eternity. Those children have not been challenged to decide what they believe by giving them information and allowing them to explore, question and think original thoughts about that information. Rather, they’ve been scared into accepting a belief that may or may not work for them. Thus, they are taught not to go to their own original thinking, feeling and believing to discover the truth. Rather they are taught that only other people have the truth for them, and they must be very, very afraid that, if they do not accept other people’s ideas about the truth, there are terrible and very personal consequences for them.

    Anytime we are split off from conscious awareness of our own inner world, we are being spiritually abused. We need to treat the inner world, the deepest essence of who we are, as sacred land—we must first get permission, and then take off our shoes to walk there.

    source

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    I most certainly have seen spiritual victims. One typical example:
    They take on various projects and later realize limits of their own well being or can not regulate it well as they should learn critical self reflection among those who can assist. On the other side of the coin you will encounter Ni bases who help them decelerate.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragdoll Cat View Post
    Physical aggressor (Se Lead) , spiritual infantile (Ne Role)

    Physical caregiver (Si Lead) , spiritual victim (Ni Role)

    Physical infantile (Ne Lead) , spiritual aggressor (Se Role)

    Physical victim (Ni Lead) , spiritual caregiver (Si Role)

    Mental aggressor (Te Lead), emotional infantile (Fe Role)
    I'd replace the term "Lead" with "Valued" and "Role" with "Unvalued". Problem is that the Role function is a unvalued function, so the conection to Role doesn't fit.

    Ok, I make a new table:
    Physical aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional sensing functions
    Physical caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional sensing functions
    Physical victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional sensing functions
    Physical infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional sensing functions

    Spiritual aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional intuition functions
    Spiritual caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional intuition functions
    Spiritual victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional intuition functions
    Spiritual infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional intuition functions

    Mental aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional thinking functions
    Mental caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional thinking functions
    Mental victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional thinking functions
    Mental infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional thinking functions

    Emotional aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional feeling functions
    Emotional caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional feeling functions
    Emotional victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional feeling functions
    Emotional infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional feeling functions
    Last edited by WinnieW; 10-06-2019 at 04:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I'd replace the term "Lead" with "Valued" and "Role" with "Unvalued". Problem is that the Role function is a unvalued function, so the conection to Role doesn't fit.

    Ok, I make a new table:
    Physical aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional sensing functions
    Physical caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional sensing functions
    Physical victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional sensing functions
    Physical infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional sensing functions

    Spiritual aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional intuition functions
    Spiritual caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional intuition functions
    Spiritual victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional intuition functions
    Spiritual infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional intuition functions

    Mental aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional thinking functions
    Mental caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional thinking functions
    Mental victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional thinking functions
    Mental infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional thinking functions

    Emotional aggressor: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional feeling functions
    Emotional caregiver: valued + unvalued — high-dimensional feeling functions
    Emotional victim: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional feeling functions
    Emotional infantile: valued + unvalued — low-dimensional feeling functions
    OCD?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    I most certainly have seen spiritual victims. One typical example:
    They take on various projects and later realize limits of their own well being or can not regulate it well as they should learn critical self reflection among those who can assist. On the other side of the coin you will encounter Ni bases who help them decelerate.
    Spiritual victims are those who suffer spiritual abuse by spiritual aggressors.
    Last edited by Ragdoll Cat; 10-06-2019 at 11:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragdoll Cat View Post
    OCD?
    Yeah, ofc. The only valid explanation.

    btw. Copy and Paste are two good friends of mine. With their help I hadn't much work to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Yeah, ofc. The only valid explanation.

    btw. Copy and Paste are two good friends of mine. With their help I hadn't much work to do.
    naturally when source is not mentioned.

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    Source are available infos about Socionics & my brainpower... which means: I created that table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Source are available infos about Socionics & my brainpower... which means: I created that table.
    then OCD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    I'm an ESE and the childlike description suits me much better than the caregiver description.
    you mistake
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragdoll Cat View Post
    then OCD.
    Yeah, Orderly Collected Data. That's right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragdoll Cat View Post
    Physical aggressor (Se Lead) , spiritual infantile (Ne Role)

    Physical caregiver (Si Lead) , spiritual victim (Ni Role)

    Physical infantile (Ne Lead) , spiritual aggressor (Se Role)

    Physical victim (Ni Lead) , spiritual caregiver (Si Role)

    Mental aggressor (Te Lead), emotional infantile (Fe Role)



    The rest doesnt make much sense to me.
    Id say sensors are either aggressor or caregiver primary and secondary. Dont forget that they help their duals with their strong, not weak functions.
    Same goes for intuitives not being caregiver or aggressor but Either victim or infantile and vice versa

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