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Thread: Second-Guessing My Stacking: sp/sx or sp/so

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    Default Second-Guessing My Stacking: sp/sx or sp/so

    Hi everyone.

    Recently, I've been doing some thinking about the Enneagram and wondering whether I might be an sp/so instead of an sp/sx. Does anyone have any pointers as to how I might solve my dilemma?

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    Comparing the blind spots: So last versus Sx last makes quite a difference.

    Consider how much you care about social conformism versus intense connection.

    Scenario: If your parents, colleagues and friends criticized you for your new partner, would you either abandon this partner since their approval is essential to you and you think: "when they see something bad there must be something bad"? Or: do you go against the will of everyone because the relationship and your choice matters more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Scenario: If your parents, colleagues and friends criticized you for your new partner, would you either abandon this partner since their approval is essential to you and you think: "when they see something bad there must be something bad"? Or: do you go against the will of everyone because the relationship and your choice matters more?
    I wouldn't care about what anyone else thinks. The only thing that would make me break up with them is if they had some problem that made me want to break up with them. If the other people gave me some reason for why I would end up in a bad place because of the person I like, then I might break up with them.

    But I wouldn't break up with a partner just to gain approval. When you say "must be something bad," that is the problem for me. If they can't point out what's wrong, I wouldn't have an actual reason to see my partner negatively. If they said, "Here, see? He's dealing hard drugs on the side. Here's proof!" then that would be different.

    But is this really an accurate tell of a social laster?

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    A social laster isnt concerned with the idea of reciprocation balancing out their environment.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    A social laster isnt concerned with the idea of reciprocation balancing out their environment.
    Would you mind clarifying what you mean by that? What is "reciprocation balancing out their environment?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Would you mind clarifying what you mean by that? What is "reciprocation balancing out their environment?"
    Well, the person in question could have a variety of motivations, so that motivation is a variable. But the idea is reciprocation brings rewards, which incites a behavior based on a reward. If I do this, I get this. In fact that last statement is probably more precisd. For chimps, it can occur with a strong hunter sharing meat with another strong hunter, so that when that chimp earns a bigger portion in a hunt, he may do the same, and thus sharing the food allows the chimp to not be hungry. For a mean girl type, doing shitty behavior x might earn the approval of a group, and that motivates the behavior. For an altruist, being a good person might cause the world they interact with to learn the same behavior, and that brings fulfillment.

    A social last might have similar behaviors, but not the same rationale. My mom for instance, very giving and sacrifice oriented. But shes not motivated by that idea of theyll learn this, or ill feel good by doing this, but rather its a gut impulse. Shes Sp/Sx. Whereas me doing the same thing, So/Sx I am motivated by that idea that the good i do spurs more good, and that natural impulse is non existant, its completely conscious.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Well, the person in question could have a variety of motivations, so that motivation is a variable. But the idea is reciprocation brings rewards, which incites a behavior based on a reward. If I do this, I get this. In fact that last statement is probably more precisd. For chimps, it can occur with a strong hunter sharing meat with another strong hunter, so that when that chimp earns a bigger portion in a hunt, he may do the same, and thus sharing the food allows the chimp to not be hungry. For a mean girl type, doing shitty behavior x might earn the approval of a group, and that motivates the behavior. For an altruist, being a good person might cause the world they interact with to learn the same behavior, and that brings fulfillment.

    A social last might have similar behaviors, but not the same rationale. My mom for instance, very giving and sacrifice oriented. But shes not motivated by that idea of theyll learn this, or ill feel good by doing this, but rather its a gut impulse. Shes Sp/Sx. Whereas me doing the same thing, So/Sx I am motivated by that idea that the good i do spurs more good, and that natural impulse is non existant, its completely conscious.
    I am aware of the idea that people often reciprocate for various reasons. I am also aware of the fact that people can perform the same behaviors with different motivations. With regard to your example about the mean girl, I myself have never truly belonged to a group of people. Certainly, I've participated, but I've never really belonged. Does that mean necessarily that I have a social-last variant?

    You did a good job of explaining what you meant by reciprocation and how social types understand it, I believe. What I still don't quite understand is the term "balancing out their environment." Could you go into this a bit more, specifically?

    Or maybe you meant that social lasters don't really think about rewards when they perform different behaviors? Or the idea of reciprocation? They simply follow their instincts to act and react in a certain situation? If that's what you're saying, then I have a hard time understanding that perspective, because I'm always at least somewhat conscious of my behavior in a social environment.

    In fact, I'm that way no matter who I'm interacting with. Are you sure that lack of conscious awareness is really an indicator of instinct here? It seems like most thoughtful or somewhat introspective people would always be aware of that sort of thing consciously. Or they'd at least be capable of doing so.

    On the other hand, I can kind of see what you mean when I think about it. When I've interacted with various social lasters before, many of them do seem to be very impulsive in a certain way, regardless of how introverted or extroverted they are, or even how introspective or intelligent. Perhaps impulsive isn't the right word though. They seem to act from internal nature always. It's just an extra detail that doing so often results in a very inconsistent pattern of expression that lacks in smoothness. There's very little artifice (malicious or not) or consciously planned social behavior with them. Maybe that's what you're getting at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post

    But is this really an accurate tell of a social laster?
    No.

    The way I feel as a social last is I don't really need friends. I don't fake positive emotion around people. I don't like to socialize alot. At a party the goal is to find someone who is attractive and draws me in. When that happens I ignore everyone else and wont leave until that person has left. Around social 2nd and 1sts I feel weird and inappropriate, like they know something I dont. I'm not just talking about shy. I have an sp/so 4 friend whose probably more shy than me, and worried about talking to people, but when she talks to people it still has some flow to it. I feel inappropriate like im taking away the goodness (soc) and infusing it with sex instead (sx)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    No.

    The way I feel as a social last is I don't really need friends. I don't fake positive emotion around people. I don't like to socialize alot. At a party the goal is to find someone who is attractive and draws me in. When that happens I ignore everyone else and wont leave until that person has left. Around social 2nd and 1sts I feel weird and inappropriate, like they know something I dont. I'm not just talking about shy. I have an sp/so 4 friend whose probably more shy than me, and worried about talking to people, but when she talks to people it still has some flow to it. I feel inappropriate like im taking away the goodness (soc) and infusing it with sex instead (sx)
    That feeling of being wierd and inappropriate around people is something I've found to be true too. It really is like most other regular people know something I don't. I've always struggled with this feeling and wondered why it existed. I often find myself thinking, "What's going on here?" It seems like most people can share some knowing glance that I'm not privy to, and can't read into, so I'm forever in the dark. No matter where I go, this seems to always be the case. Is this experience something universal with social lasters, or are there other potential causes? Could this be something everyone experiences sometimes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    That feeling of being wierd and inappropriate around people is something I've found to be true too. It really is like most other regular people know something I don't. I've always struggled with this feeling and wondered why it existed. I often find myself thinking, "What's going on here?" It seems like most people can share some knowing glance that I'm not privy to, and can't read into, so I'm forever in the dark. No matter where I go, this seems to always be the case. Is this experience something universal with social lasters, or are there other potential causes? Could this be something everyone experiences sometimes?
    It depends on how you interpret it, like i said my (sp/so) friend has social anxiety and probably thinks shes super weird even though I dont think she is. But she probably doesnt feel like shes "dirty" and contaminating everything with sex and dirt. =D

    Some soc-lasts might not notice it, and not care about it, depends on their level of awareness(?).
    5 is a type that can come off as soc last, also in tritype, esp as sp/sx because its self focused and kind of stands outside society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    It depends on how you interpret it, like i said my (sp/so) friend has social anxiety and probably thinks shes super weird even though I dont think she is. But she probably doesnt feel like shes "dirty" and contaminating everything with sex and dirt. =D

    Some soc-lasts might not notice it, and not care about it, depends on their level of awareness(?).
    5 is a type that can come off as soc last, also in tritype, esp as sp/sx because its self focused and kind of stands outside society.

    This post was fun to read but didn't help me figure anything out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    This post was fun to read but didn't help me figure anything out.
    Ok. sp/so are this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal...dhist_doctrine
    sp/sx are this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)

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    Check the Sp/Sx thread to see whether you find the images personally appealing there.

    Also, just based on the fact that most (if not all) Sp/So individuals are S types (as well as not into Typology), you are probably Sp/Sx (or a different stacking altogether).

    The others have already alluded to the blindspots, and so forth.
    That can be helpful, but maybe just thinking about what you care about more could give you a clue.

    If you had to choose, would you rather have good friends, a great social network, and social/cultural approval/prestige, or a great long-term mate/partner.
    The former would apply more to Sp/So (and SO first), and the latter to Sp/Sx (and SX first).

    I can give a personal dilemma of my Sp/So dad as an example of the stacking. (Note: My father is LSE-Si and Type 3w4, those factors influence the expression of his stacking.)

    From a pretty young age, my father had decided to make as much money as possible. He only cared about money, and later having a house of its own, when it came to his career path. At one point, he could have either went down the artistic route – he'd been interested in design and architecture, and could draw well enough; or, he could skip that and go for something more lucrative. So he went for studying Law. However, that didn't work out too well, so he moved on to something different. He made and still does make good money from that other job (he's self-employed), but it is something that doesn't have the same social "rank" and prestige as for instance being a doctor or lawyer does. And he used to feel sort of self-conscious or frustrated about it. It bothered him that he didn't have that social rank. At the same time, he cares more about making money, so at the end of the day he is fine with his current job, but his ideal one would include more prestige.

    As far as I know, Sp/Sx doesn't really care much about social prestige/rank, and would have been completely happy with having a good, maybe even obscure, job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Check the Sp/Sx thread to see whether you find the images personally appealing there.

    Also, just based on the fact that most (if not all) Sp/So individuals are S types (as well as not into Typology), you are probably Sp/Sx (or a different stacking altogether).

    The others have already alluded to the blindspots, and so forth.
    That can be helpful, but maybe just thinking about what you care about more could give you a clue.

    If you had to choose, would you rather have good friends, a great social network, and social/cultural approval/prestige, or a great long-term mate/partner.
    The former would apply more to Sp/So (and SO first), and the latter to Sp/Sx (and SX first).

    I can give a personal dilemma of my Sp/So dad as an example of the stacking. (Note: My father is LSE-Si and Type 3w4, those factors influence the expression of his stacking.)

    From a pretty young age, my father had decided to make as much money as possible. He only cared about money, and later having a house of its own, when it came to his career path. At one point, he could have either went down the artistic route – he'd been interested in design and architecture, and could draw well enough; or, he could skip that and go for something more lucrative. So he went for studying Law. However, that didn't work out too well, so he moved on to something different. He made and still does make good money from that other job (he's self-employed), but it is something that doesn't have the same social "rank" and prestige as for instance being a doctor or lawyer does. And he used to feel sort of self-conscious or frustrated about it. It bothered him that he didn't have that social rank. At the same time, he cares more about making money, so at the end of the day he is fine with his current job, but his ideal one would include more prestige.

    As far as I know, Sp/Sx doesn't really care much about social prestige/rank, and would have been completely happy with having a good, maybe even obscure, job.
    Based on this perspective, I'm probably sp/sx like I thought I was. I don't really care about prestige and would prefer a partner over a social network any day. To me the latter seems superficial and potentially unstable. Society is like a boat in the ocean during the storm. Not fun to navigate. But I also get the feeling that I don't really know how to relationship either.

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