Member Questionnaire (Horatio)

[Cosmic Teapot]

So this forum did what it had to do and that is: giving me an identity crisis.
I would love to hear you thoughts on my type.


And thanks for your help @Chae


What is beauty? What is love?
I don't think that I have ever loved someone (except my family). I feel loyalty,deep sympathy and empathy, but that does not count as love.


Everyone decides for themselves what's beautiful(or art). That's why I don't think that "bad taste" really exists.
For me beauty is elegance and functionality. What makes a piece of art beautiful is the technique and devotion of the artist.


What are your most important values?
I watch out for others but I also think that everyone should learn how to take care for themselves.I respect people who apologize and correct their behavior when they were being rude.
Tolerance and a Live and let live-attitude are fundamental.
Being there for the people in you live when they need you.


Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
No. I don't see how religion benefits humanity. I believe in Science.


Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Pacifist.
Power is physical force, knowledge, psychological and environmental (or any other form of) advantage.


What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
Foreign politics,economy, social problems, history but I can talk about any topic with any sociotype. Most of the time I like listening to what other people have to say. That way I learn something new. Also, I fear to get into arguments. They are a waste of time with no good outcome and damage relationships.


Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
I sometimes forget to eat and drop weight unintentionally. In theory I know how to eat and stay healthy but I have other things to do (my studies, teaching myself new programming skills) and eat whatever keeps me from being hungry for the next 3 or 4 hours.


What do you think of daily chores?
I like cleanliness and organizing but usually I do not enjoy cooking because I have no clue what tastes "right".
When I feel like a slob it bothers me so much that I can't focus on what I want to do.


Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.:
Books:Jurassic Park, The Martian, some YA (HP, Hunger Games), about every Book by Noam Chomsky and Christopher Hitchens, The Shock-Doctrine, The Third Chimpanzee and astronomy stuff
Movies: Christopher Nolan (Interstellar, Inception), action (John Wick, Bourne Trilogy). I like emotional stories but I often feel overwhelmed (not in a negative way) and therefore don't watch romance movies at all.


What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
I used to be really sensitive. I never cried when I was hurt physically, but when authority figures criticized by me or when I felt like a failure (perfectionist). As a child I even had to visit a therapist because I cried so often and could not control my emotions.
I cry when I am happy for people(who are close to me) and I feel like crying in continually noisy environments.
(I live in a neighborhood with a many ( seriously many!)children. This is my personal hell.)
I like black humor.


Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
When I am by myself in silence.
At my university - I always wanted to study.
Or with people who know me since forever. They don't worry when I don't talk or don't show much emotion. They know I don't need alcohol "to loosen up" but some time to get in the right mood.
I feel very comfortable with ESE,IEI,SLE and SLI(We know each other for 7-9 years )


What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
When I feel disrespected I take things personally.
I whish I would speak up for myself more often but then I get called overemotional (by Te-ego types). So I don't say anything at all.
I feel like I need permission to show my feelings and thoughts and I have to hide significant parts of my personality to not shock anyone.
I am too introverted to stay in contact with many people at once and give more than half-assed attention. Although I'd love to.
I am naive and care to much. My gifts are always thoughtful but when I receive something cheap(:impersonal, meaningless) in reaturn I am disappointed because I overestimated the relationship.
When I have little interest in a project I'm bad details.
I need to know the whole picture of a topic or project or I can't work efficiently.


What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
My SLE,IEI parents see me as enduring, principled, goal-oriented and selfish.I like to make decisions and I am a damn know-it-all
My ESE friend thinks I am smart (though doesn't like hearing me talking about science stuff. I'm pretty sure she just likes the idea that I'm smart.)
IEI,LIE, ILI say I am sweet
The LSI says I'm funny but reckless sometimes
I get along great with an SLI, but think she sees me as helpless.


I don't give up easily (That is a strength and a weakness) and need to be independent and self-sufficient (if not I get comfortable and can become a freeloader)
I am patient and don't get angry (just frustrated).
I only take calculated risks with bearable consequences. Often people think that I am careless, or that I am too dumb to realize the full extend of a choice or situation, because I act indifferent. It's like I am the only one who sees possible back-up plans or alternative routes.


In what areas of your life would you like help?
Clothes, make-up. Being cared for and eating well once in a while is nice. But not when I'm ill ;I can survive on my own.
I never really know if someone likes me or if they are just being polite.So clear words are appreciated.


Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.:
I love learning and researching, but when I can't find something completely new to me, I lose all motivation to do anything productive. I consume all kinds of movies, buy books, read articles in search for interesting material.


What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I like people who are kind.
I dislike narcissistic behavior, shaming and shouting at people.
I get along with all types except for some SEI, XLE and for some reason all SLI teachers/professors. I find it hard to talk to some XEE when they try to lecture me.
I know four ESI and we get along well. I'm never sure if they like me or not.
I don't know any EII.
XLE Fi-Porl gets on my nerves.




How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
I really hate nagging,theatrical or controlling behavior and lecturing.I can't give attention 24/7. I am boring and want easy relations. Sex is important but overrated. There are more important things like real trust, honesty and not feeling embarrassed for being yourself.
I chased an ISFp for 2,5 years and when we finally dated he would say (all on the same day): "You are too emotional!- You are too cold-hearted!- Why are you so quiet? -You talk too much!- You need a drink to loosen up.- Why are you acting like that? Are you drunk?"
He could not make up his mind. Today I know he expected and ENTp, but he got me...


If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
I was a tutor for 7 years and what concerned me the most is that many children and teens honestly think they are stupid or even retarded.
I would want that my child knows he or she can learn anything with right mindset.
Physical punishment is absolutely forbidden


A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
You believe in astrology? Well I think that's stupid, but I won't say anything because you are free to believe whatever you like.


Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.:
I see people as complex individuals who are loosely connected by dynamic cultural or political beliefs.


Everyone things he/she knows the truth. But there is no *truth*, just more viewpoints. And we are ready to kill for these viewpoints.
Teaching people that there is only one right solution to a problem (like in math 2+2 is 4 nothing else) is nonsense. Reality and human beings are more complex that that.

The individual is intelligent and wonderful, the masses are stupid and cruel.
I whish people would stop being blinded by the charisma of their leaders and start to watch what they are actually doing.




How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
Everyone is my friend until proven otherwise but I only open up to two people (SLI, IEI).
I want people to know how much I like them, that they are perfect to me and that they should not be so hard on themselves. Usually they become overwhelmed by my sudden out of character behavior. Then I make sure it never happens again.
However introverts (LSI,ESI,IEI,SLI) seem okay with that.
I cut off contact when someone starts to behave disrespectful or even insulting (to me or people close to me)


How do you behave around strangers?
I tend to mirror people. When they're reserved - I am,too. I can act cheerful and super friendly, when I have enough energy though.

[Adam Strange]

OK, here is the usual preface. I suck at typing, but I'm not afraid to go first, make a fool of myself, and be corrected later. Let's wait for @Myst, @Chae, and some others to weigh in. In any case, here goes.

So this forum did what it had to do and that is: giving me an identity crisis.
I would love to hear you thoughts on my type.


And thanks for your help @Chae


What is beauty? What is love?
I don't think that I have ever loved someone (except my family). I feel loyalty,deep sympathy and empathy, but that does not count as love.

Fi valuing. Interesting that you mentioned it first.

Everyone decides for themselves what's beautiful(or art). That's why I don't think that "bad taste" really exists.
For me beauty is elegance and functionality. What makes a piece of art beautiful is the technique and devotion of the artist.

Democratic values.

What are your most important values?
I watch out for others but I also think that everyone should learn how to take care for themselves. I respect people who apologize and correct their behavior when they were being rude.

Adapted to LIE behavior, because LIE's are often off working and are not around, and they say whatever they are thinking, without much consideration of other's feelings, which means LIE's end up feeling embarrassed and apologizing a lot.

Tolerance and a Live and let live-attitude are fundamental.
Being there for the people in you life when they need you.

Loyalty, support.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
No. I don't see how religion benefits humanity. I believe in Science.


Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Pacifist.
Power is physical force, knowledge, psychological and environmental (or any other form of) advantage.

Statement is written in third-person. Does not exercise power directly. Low Se.

What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
Foreign politics,economy, social problems, history but I can talk about any topic with any sociotype. Most of the time I like listening to what other people have to say. That way I learn something new. Also, I fear to get into arguments. They are a waste of time with no good outcome and damage relationships.

Te seeking, -Fi valuing regarding the "arguments" statement. "I avoid conflicts simply because, without any specific goal. Although sometimes I'll go for a conflict in order to shake things up and for enjoyment. But I do this only in cases when it's not going to become too serious and will not deeply hurt anyone." -http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/107-Signs-of-Functions-Eglit

Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
I sometimes forget to eat and drop weight unintentionally. In theory I know how to eat and stay healthy but I have other things to do (my studies, teaching myself new programming skills) and eat whatever keeps me from being hungry for the next 3 or 4 hours.

Low Si.

What do you think of daily chores?
I like cleanliness and organizing but usually I do not enjoy cooking because I have no clue what tastes "right".

Low Si.

When I feel like a slob it bothers me so much that I can't focus on what I want to do.

Low Ni. Must take care of things right now that weigh on the mind, because of difficulty in predicting how leaving them as they are will affect things later.

Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.:
Books:Jurassic Park, The Martian, some YA (HP, Hunger Games), about every Book by Noam Chomsky and Christopher Hitchens, The Shock-Doctrine, The Third Chimpanzee and astronomy stuff
Movies: Christopher Nolan (Interstellar, Inception), action (John Wick, Bourne Trilogy). I like emotional stories but I often feel overwhelmed (not in a negative way) and therefore don't watch romance movies at all.

No clear conclusion.

What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
I used to be really sensitive. I never cried when I was hurt physically, but when authority figures criticized me or when I felt like a failure (perfectionist).

This seems like EII behavior to me, but it could be many other things.

As a child I even had to visit a therapist because I cried so often and could not control my emotions.
I cry when I am happy for people(who are close to me) and I feel like crying in continually noisy environments.
(I live in a neighborhood with a many ( seriously many!)children. This is my personal hell.)
I like black humor.


Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
When I am by myself in silence.

Introvert.

At my university - I always wanted to study.
Or with people who know me since forever. They don't worry when I don't talk or don't show much emotion. They know I don't need alcohol "to loosen up" but some time to get in the right mood.

Fi valuing.

I feel very comfortable with ESE,IEI,SLE and SLI(We know each other for 7-9 years )

If you are ESI, then these are relations of Extinguishment (which Beebe said were very attractive), Benefactor, Supervisor, and Beneficiary, respectively, all of which can feel very "intimate" and comfortable, because you feel as if you know them well.

What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
When I feel disrespected I take things personally.

Fi valuing.

I wish I would speak up for myself more often but then I get called overemotional (by Te-ego types). So I don't say anything at all.

This could point toward Te-PoLR, except you defined the criticism as being feeling-based, and not Thinking based. An IEI would take Te input as "feeling that they are being called stupid", rather than being over-emotional.

I feel like I need permission to show my feelings and thoughts and I have to hide significant parts of my personality to not shock anyone.
I am too introverted to stay in contact with many people at once and give more than half-assed attention. Although I'd love to.

Fi valuing. Keeping in touch with a few good friends.

I am naive and care to much. My gifts are always thoughtful but when I receive something cheap(:impersonal, meaningless) in return I am disappointed because I overestimated the relationship.

Oriented toward LIE behavior of generous giving, because LIE's feel inadequate at balancing relationships by returning personal feelings.

When I have little interest in a project I'm bad details.
I need to know the whole picture of a topic or project or I can't work efficiently.

Holy S**t. Classic Te seeking. And not seeking the +Te of LSE, but rather the -Te of LIE's.

What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
My SLE,IEI parents see me as enduring, principled, goal-oriented and selfish.I like to make decisions and I am a damn know-it-all
My ESE friend thinks I am smart (though doesn't like hearing me talking about science stuff. I'm pretty sure she just likes the idea that I'm smart.)
IEI,LIE, ILI say I am sweet

I (an LIE) once called an ESI whom I liked "a sweetheart".

The LSI says I'm funny but reckless sometimes
I get along great with an SLI, but think she sees me as helpless.

"Helpless" or "incompetent" is how my Supervisor sees me. The Benefactor sees the Beneficiary as someone who needs their help.

I don't give up easily (That is a strength and a weakness) and need to be independent and self-sufficient (if not I get comfortable and can become a freeloader)

Fairly good Se, but not Se-dom.

I am patient and don't get angry (just frustrated).
I only take calculated risks with bearable consequences. Often people think that I am careless, or that I am too dumb to realize the full extend of a choice or situation, because I act indifferent. It's like I am the only one who sees possible back-up plans or alternative routes.

Moderate Ni and Ne.

In what areas of your life would you like help?
Clothes, make-up. Being cared for and eating well once in a while is nice. But not when I'm ill ;I can survive on my own.

Unvalued Si.

I never really know if someone likes me or if they are just being polite.So clear words are appreciated.

Fi-PoLR? No, it's too late for that. Instead, I would go with something I read once, which said that one of the LIE's functions is to clearly tell the ESI the value or use of a person, not regarding their intrisnic worth (Fi), but rather with respect to future plans (Ni).
Regarding clarity in the expression of feelings, see this thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...your-attention

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.:
I love learning and researching, but when I can't find something completely new to me, I lose all motivation to do anything productive. I consume all kinds of movies, buy books, read articles in search for interesting material.

No firm conclusion, other than some fact-seeking.

What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I like people who are kind.

Gamma Motto: "Mean People Suck"

I dislike narcissistic behavior, shaming and shouting at people.

Dual-seeking strategy to distinguish between LSE's and LIE's, and unhealthy LIE's and healthy LIE's.

I get along with all types except for some SEI, XLE and for some reason all SLI teachers/professors. I find it hard to talk to some XEE when they try to lecture me.

SEI, XLE are possibly a problem of the quadras being too "distant". Benefactors (SLI) can get on your nerves, because they want to help you, but their methods and approaches to problems are completely useless to you. And then they judge you badly for not doing it right.

I know four ESI and we get along well. I'm never sure if they like me or not.

All women compete with each other. Fi-types play their cards close to their chests.

I don't know any EII.
XLE Fi-Porl gets on my nerves.

I can easily see Fi-PoLR, too, and while it doesn't exactly get on my nerves, I wish it weren't there.
If you are ESI, then ILE is your Conflictor, and SLE is your Beneficiary, whom you try to help but they don't seem to be able to implement your good advice.

How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
I really hate nagging,theatrical or controlling behavior and lecturing.I can't give attention 24/7. I am boring and want easy relations. Sex is important but overrated. There are more important things like real trust, honesty and not feeling embarrassed for being yourself.

Um, this is what LIE's look for, too.
However, I might be too close to this problem, so I will say that many types want this, and therefore
No conclusion.

I chased an ISFp for 2,5 years and when we finally dated he would say (all on the same day): "You are too emotional!- You are too cold-hearted!- Why are you so quiet? -You talk too much!- You need a drink to loosen up.- Why are you acting like that? Are you drunk?"
He could not make up his mind. Today I know he expected and ENTp, but he got me...

I've found that, for close relations, XXXj and XXXp types don't mix that well.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
I was a tutor for 7 years and what concerned me the most is that many children and teens honestly think they are stupid or even retarded.
I would want that my child knows he or she can learn anything with right mindset.
Physical punishment is absolutely forbidden

This is just good parenting. No conclusion.

A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
You believe in astrology? Well I think that's stupid, but I won't say anything because you are free to believe whatever you like.

Seems Fi-valuing to me, and democratic (Alpha and Gamma) values.

Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.:
I see people as complex individuals who are loosely connected by dynamic cultural or political beliefs.


Everyone things he/she knows the truth. But there is no *truth*, just more viewpoints. And we are ready to kill for these viewpoints.
Teaching people that there is only one right solution to a problem (like in math 2+2 is 4 nothing else) is nonsense. Reality and human beings are more complex that that.

The individual is intelligent and wonderful, the masses are stupid and cruel.
I wish people would stop being blinded by the charisma of their leaders and start to watch what they are actually doing.

Values Fi over Fe.

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
Everyone is my friend until proven otherwise but I only open up to two people (SLI, IEI).
I want people to know how much I like them, that they are perfect to me and that they should not be so hard on themselves. Usually they become overwhelmed by my sudden out of character behavior. Then I make sure it never happens again.

Low Ni. (Does things, then watches for reaction and remembers.) Modifies behavior toward harmony with an individual is Fi.

However introverts (LSI,ESI,IEI,SLI) seem okay with that.
I cut off contact when someone starts to behave disrespectful or even insulting (to me or people close to me)

This is just good boundaries. No conclusion.

How do you behave around strangers?
I tend to mirror people. When they're reserved - I am,too. I can act cheerful and super friendly, when I have enough energy though.

Mirroring is an IEI trait. You may have learned that from your mother, or inherited her mirror-neurons.


Conclusion:
You are almost certainly an ESI.
I will say that your avatar picture looks Fi-valuing to me. The woman's face is an introvert, wearing a red rose over her heart for feeling. Very Fi. I would also say her face is more ESI (softer) than EII. However, the general style of the picture is more Delta than Gamma. Since I think you are more likely to be ESI than EII, I'd attribute that to an over-traveling flight from Beta.*


Horatio avatar8886_2.gif.jpg


*(I've done the same over-traveling with my relationship history, where I fled so hard from my Delta parents that I ended up in Beta territory. Not a bad place, but not where I belong.)

[Adam Strange]

So this forum did what it had to do and that is: giving me an identity crisis.
I would love to hear you thoughts on my type.

Incidentally, what specifically gave you an identity crisis?

[Chae]

Keeping in mind the great spadework of @Adam Strange:

EII > ESI. Yes, Fi lead: mirroring people, friend by default, friendly relations, moral behavior, family, respect, care and thought in relationships etc.

But there's more Ne bigger picture/alternative work than Se aggressor statements. Instead, you state to avoid quarrels and standing up for yourself, being tolerant and patient, intuitive consequence and back-up plans are key. Topical broadness and "to each their own" of Ne is emphasized, problems with sensory topics as a downside. ESI would be secure in these all while not being aware of interests, talents and possibilities.

Anti-Beta: no drama, hierarchy with charismatic leaders, group organization (you praise the individual and condemn the collective, as Delta myself I am sooo seconding that), punishments or party spirit where people loosen up. You also despise disrespect and control, lecturing and intense displays of love, all Beta values. Also: no rudeness, no risk.
Delta sensitivity, silence, trust and pacifism prevails. Delta is all about the multifaceted science, opportunity, comfort and practicality you talk about. "I am boring and want easy relations" said no Se ego ever, they like a challenge, Ni ego playing hard to get or being mysterious.

Your dual - LSE caregiver: Si ego in romance is clearly requested: aids your Si HA with clothes, make-up, helps relieve the slob feeling in chores, helps with details, can "actually do something" instead of being blinded by Beta's flashy ideology and mob mentality. LSE: clear-cut, efficient without the big picture that you require, black humor, has all the facts that you like.

Everyone things he/she knows the truth. But there is no *truth*, just more viewpoints. And we are ready to kill for these viewpoints.
Teaching people that there is only one right solution to a problem (like in math 2+2 is 4 nothing else) is nonsense. Reality and human beings are more complex that that.

Se PoLR due to use of Ne creative.

I was a tutor for 7 years and what concerned me the most is that many children and teens honestly think they are stupid or even retarded.
I would want that my child knows he or she can learn anything with right mindset.

More FiNe + Ni.


EII-Ne is my result, there's more additional strength on the Ne-Te axis than Fi-Si, Se PoLR over lack of Te in EII-Fi.
As for enneagram: 1w9 Sp/So. Enneagram 1 for valued approach and right/wrong moral system, 9-wing for peaceful and open dealings with others. 9w1 is also possible but e1 impression is stronger so far.
Sx blindspot is obvious: devalues sex and falling in love, energy, handling chemistry is difficult ("overestimated the relationship"). Your way of bonding is not deep and high-powered. More Sp independence and sturdiness, earthiness despite intuitive naivety, social instinct covers peers and societal topics.

[Cosmic Teapot]

OK, here is the usual preface. I suck at typing, but I'm not afraid to go first, make a fool of myself, and be corrected later. Let's wait for @Myst, @Chae, and some others to weigh in. In any case, here goes.

sweet

Conclusion:
You are almost certainly an ESI.
I will say that your avatar picture looks Fi-valuing to me. The woman's face is an introvert, wearing a red rose over her heart for feeling. Very Fi. I would also say her face is more ESI (softer) than EII. However, the general style of the picture is more Delta than Gamma. Since I think you are more likely to be ESI than EII, I'd attribute that to an over-traveling flight from Beta.*


Horatio avatar8886_2.gif.jpg


*(I've done the same over-traveling with my relationship history, where I fled so hard from my Delta parents that I ended up in Beta territory. Not a bad place, but not where I belong.)

Thank you very much, Adam. That's more than I hoped for.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Incidentally, what specifically gave you an identity crisis?

I met the ENTp boyfriend of my ISFp friend and I think I had one of the most interesting conversations ever.
His basement is full of trash :computer components, motorcycle and car parts... So not trash but *potential*
And we talked about all kinds of start-up ideas. Not serious ones but ideas on how to sell cheap stuff overpriced by using all kinds of marketing tricks and how I would build and run the website and what skills and people we would need and on and on
ENTp's seem to know everything and are not afraid to talk about stuff that my friends would call ethically wrong,uninteresting or shocking. It was like I could finally speak about everything I know and get a new and intelligent perspective in return.


My ISFp friend and I get along well, since I know of socionics. Everytime she monitors me or treats me like a helpless child I tell myself that it's her socionics job.
My ISFp grandma: I love her, but I cannot talk to her. At all. It's like I have to keep my mouth shut the hole time to not get into an argument. To me it looks like she dismisses all facts. Only her understanding of the world counts. Our values couldn't be more different.


As much as I like being with LIE (I know 2) working together is very difficult.
Storytime about a LIE: I worked in his start-up (duh) and long story short: after 7 months it took another ESI to finally tell him that whatever I did it was not good enough. That my so-called stress and inability to manage my life were a direct result of his behavior, sudden plan changes and too high expectations. I think if I was ESI then I would have told the LIE myself but I was to busy beating myself up.
You might say: "It's a start-up. Of course it's stressful" Yes. True. A start-up is like a canoe in the pacific ocean. But when the "captain" experiments with everything you become crazy. I quit.
His start-up runs very well btw. I was a human guinea pig. The new minion doesn't have the same problems as me.
I am not mad at him (anymore) we are all human, but I cut contact with him - for reasons that are unimportant right know.


I had a job interview recently.It went very well, but I never intended to get the job (too far away ).
It was my first interview ever and I wanted to prepare myself for the jobs I really want. I needed to know if I can act confident enough, how the interviewers react to my resume and so on.
When I talked about that with others they looked at me like I was a lunatic. Only the ILI though that was a good Idea and I can't imagine an ESI or LSI doing that.


I work with an LSE on a project (university). And it does not feel like semi-duality. More like business. I'd rather work with him than with a LIE tbh. More reliable. Planning and implementing. No drama.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Keeping in mind the great spadework of @Adam Strange:

EII > ESI. Yes, Fi lead: mirroring people, friend by default, friendly relations, moral behavior, family, respect, care and thought in relationships etc.

But there's more Ne bigger picture/alternative work than Se aggressor statements. Instead, you state to avoid quarrels and standing up for yourself, being tolerant and patient, intuitive consequence and back-up plans are key. Topical broadness and "to each their own" of Ne is emphasized, problems with sensory topics as a downside. ESI would be secure in these all while not being aware of interests, talents and possibilities.

Anti-Beta: no drama, hierarchy with charismatic leaders, group organization (you praise the individual and condemn the collective, as Delta myself I am sooo seconding that), punishments or party spirit where people loosen up. You also despise disrespect and control, lecturing and intense displays of love, all Beta values. Also: no rudeness, no risk.
Delta sensitivity, silence, trust and pacifism prevails. Delta is all about the multifaceted science, opportunity, comfort and practicality you talk about. "I am boring and want easy relations" said no Se ego ever, they like a challenge, Ni ego playing hard to get or being mysterious.

Your dual - LSE caregiver: Si ego in romance is clearly requested: aids your Si HA with clothes, make-up, helps relieve the slob feeling in chores, helps with details, can "actually do something" instead of being blinded by Beta's flashy ideology and mob mentality. LSE: clear-cut, efficient without the big picture that you require, black humor, has all the facts that you like.



Se PoLR due to use of Ne creative.



More FiNe + Ni.


EII-Ne is my result, there's more additional strength on the Ne-Te axis than Fi-Si, Se PoLR over lack of Te in EII-Fi.
As for enneagram: 1w9 Sp/So. Enneagram 1 for valued approach and right/wrong moral system, 9-wing for peaceful and open dealings with others. 9w1 is also possible but e1 impression is stronger so far.
Sx blindspot is obvious: devalues sex and falling in love, energy, handling chemistry is difficult ("overestimated the relationship"). Your way of bonding is not deep and high-powered. More Sp independence and sturdiness, earthiness despite intuitive naivety, social instinct covers peers and societal topics.

Thank you ! I'm amazed !
(by both of you!)

LSE as my duals...I never really considered that before and I may be blinded and biased .
I shouldn't make decisions yet. You gave me much to think about, but I agree with the enneagram 1w9 and instincts (<- I hope I call that right. Not confident with that yet)

[Cosmic Teapot]

On Duality:
I don't understand what LIE find attractive about ESI (um, me ). I mean all I do is sitting there like a pot plant and doing my job. And then a LIE is suddenly sitting next to me being distracted from doing stupid shit for a minute.
My experiences with LIE (never romantic) always ended badly because dismiss everything I say or do. And frankly I'm to scared to consider a relationship. Although I find them attractive.
Masochistic thoughts. I digress


Possible Conflictors:
My interaction with the ENTp could have been so positive because he has my undying respect for defending my ISFp friend from her ENFj ex, who orchestrated a giant drama to ostracize her from everyone. Even when he goes full Fi-Porl I keep in mind to not judge him for that.


I don't think I am Delta.
They strike me as near perfect and sophisticated people and their values are attractive to me but I am not childlike. When an SLI tries to help me (especially when we don't know each other well) I get very irritated. That also has to do with my pride. I want to do be capable enough to do everything on my own. I don't need someone who helps me but someone who doesn't stand in my way or run him over like a tank.
LSE are less smothering than Si-leading types, and kind, but they still feel more foreign than Gamma-types


I was a tutor because:
1. Money
2. I like teaching children math and showing them their potential.
3. But I would not have done it without the financial benefit. I am not Jesus
Furthermore families with many children know families with many children ( $cha ching$ ).
But I'd like to add that I betray my pragmatic attitude by staying longer than necessary without more money because I'm too nice.


Reinin Dichotomies:


What still bugs me is that I don't see myself as tactical type.
If I want something I work for it. For years. I change my methods,the environment,the people but not the goal. I decide what I want early and quickly and when I don't get it, it hurts for a looong time.


I'm also not static.
I see my live and my experiences as an ongoing journey. I see how events from years ago still have effects on my current decisions and how specific events and my own development are a necessary result from past experiences. When I was 8 I decided for a course and I am still in that course. All my decisions are oriented at building a good c.v. to find a good job that makes money and gives me solid ground for my other interests.




I briefly considered Te-ego, but that seems as plausible as @Adam Strange claiming he is SEI now
And changing his "space-chili by the sea"- icon to "backed potatoes for dinner"
or @Chae suddenly acting like real douche


In summary.
I'm still team Gamma, I'm not convinced about ESI but I have to clear some of my own prejudices and misunderstandings.
Your analyses showed me that I'm still a novice in socionics and I have much to learn, thank you for your time and effort.

[Chae]

This ain't finished yeeeet <3

Consider not using typings of others and their relationship with you since you are still a novice, when their typing is wrong your reasoning will not be accurate. I know, that's against Fi, I'm also tempted sometimes

Delta isn't perfect, no quadra is. Just because you see yourself as non-perfect doesn't mean you aren't welcome here <3 Nor are we entirely childlike, the latter applies more to Alpha dynamics. It's the same with Beta NiSe and Gamma NiSe dynamics. Beta is more profound on the victim/aggressor axis while Gamma may have switched roles. Your pride to do everything on your own can be Si HA. Gamma = money isn't all there is to it, every quadra wants to earn as much as the majority of humans wants to Delta is also strong in business logic. You still talk a lot of interests and time, more intuition than sensing.

Reinin - as my signature phrase goes: basics first. I used them and mistyped lmao, lessons learned.

What we need here is more people to type you/other opinions and expertise so we can put this into perspective. I summon @thehotelambush, @darya, @Cassandra, @Resonare, @phantombride.

[Adam Strange]

On Duality:
I don't understand what LIE find attractive about ESI (um, me ). I mean all I do is sitting there like a pot plant and doing my job. And then a LIE is suddenly sitting next to me being distracted from doing stupid shit for a minute.

I can’t speak for every LIE, but what I like about ESI’s is the fact that I can talk to them for hours and I don’t get bored and they don’t call the police and run away. ESI’s are very comfortable and soothing.
Beyond that, I find the ESI-Fi types to be very loyal and stable, and ESI-Se types to be very sexy and adventurous. But like you, my experiences are limited to just talking with them, so I don’t have the final word on this.

My experiences with LIE (never romantic) always ended badly because dismiss everything I say or do. And frankly I'm too scared to consider a relationship. Although I find them attractive.
Masochistic thoughts. I digress

I never really considered an ESI as a partner before I encountered Socionics, which opened my eyes. Before that, I was either ignoring or dismissing them. Many LIE’s could be doing the same thing.

Possible Conflictors:
My interaction with the ENTp could have been so positive because he has my undying respect for defending my ISFp friend from her ENFj ex, who orchestrated a giant drama to ostracize her from everyone. Even when he goes full Fi-Porl I keep in mind to not judge him for that.


I don't think I am Delta.
They strike me as near perfect and sophisticated people and their values are attractive to me

Deltas do seem to be perfect in many ways.

but I am not childlike. When an SLI tries to help me (especially when we don't know each other well) I get very irritated. That also has to do with my pride. I want to do be capable enough to do everything on my own. I don't need someone who helps me but someone who doesn't stand in my way or run him over like a tank.
LSE are less smothering than Si-leading types, and kind, but they still feel more foreign than Gamma-types

Pay attention to those feelings. I did not, and I made some pretty stupid relationship mistakes.

I was a tutor because:
1. Money
2. I like teaching children math and showing them their potential.
3. But I would not have done it without the financial benefit. I am not Jesus
Furthermore families with many children know families with many children ( $cha ching$ ).
But I'd like to add that I betray my pragmatic attitude by staying longer than necessary without more money because I'm too nice.

Stratiyevskaya said “… the … ESI, who, once bound "by the contract", considers it necessary to observe it conscientiously and thoroughly, not waiting to get reminded or pointed to it.” - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

Reinin Dichotomies:


What still bugs me is that I don't see myself as tactical type.
If I want something I work for it. For years. I change my methods,the environment,the people but not the goal. I decide what I want early and quickly and when I don't get it, it hurts for a looong time.


I'm also not static.
I see my live and my experiences as an ongoing journey. I see how events from years ago still have effects on my current decisions and how specific events and my own development are a necessary result from past experiences. When I was 8 I decided for a course and I am still in that course. All my decisions are oriented at building a good c.v. to find a good job that makes money and gives me solid ground for my other interests.

ESI’s are said to be strongly informed by past experiences, because their Ni is weak.

I briefly considered Te-ego, but that seems as plausible as @Adam Strange claiming he is SEI now
And changing his "space-chili by the sea"- icon to "backed potatoes for dinner"
or @Chae suddenly acting like real douche [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.gif[/IMG]


In summary.
I'm still team Gamma, I'm not convinced about ESI but I have to clear some of my own prejudices and misunderstandings.
Your analyses showed me that I'm still a novice in socionics and I have much to learn, thank you for your time and effort. [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.gif[/IMG]

One thing that really helped me understand who I am is Stratiyevskaya’s description of LIE’s in her duality description, which I linked above.

You might want to look at the descriptions of ESI (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya) and EII (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya), and compare her descriptions of ESI-LIE duality (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya) and that of LSE-EII duality (http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya).

[FDG]

When I talked about that with others they looked at me like I was a lunatic. Only the ILI though that was a good Idea and I can't imagine an ESI or LSI doing that.

I know ESIs who have done that, I have done that myself (LIE), so I don´t think it´s anything strange. Maybe some "others" are weird.

[Exodus]

Roughly sounds EII, though this questionnaire isn't particularly informative.

[Adam Strange]

"Space-chili by the sea"?

I've been called a lot of things before, but that's something entirely different.

P.S.
Since you've worked with LIE's, you might want to look at Strat's description of INFj and ENTj semi-duality, here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

[Jake]

This ain't finished yeeeet <3

Consider not using typings of others and their relationship with you since you are still a novice, when their typing is wrong your reasoning will not be accurate. I know, that's against Fi, I'm also tempted sometimes

Delta isn't perfect, no quadra is. Just because you see yourself as non-perfect doesn't mean you aren't welcome here <3 Nor are we entirely childlike, the latter applies more to Alpha dynamics. It's the same with Beta NiSe and Gamma NiSe dynamics. Beta is more profound on the victim/aggressor axis while Gamma may have switched roles. Your pride to do everything on your own can be Si HA. Gamma = money isn't all there is to it, every quadra wants to earn as much as the majority of humans wants to Delta is also strong in business logic. You still talk a lot of interests and time, more intuition than sensing.

Reinin - as my signature phrase goes: basics first. I used them and mistyped lmao, lessons learned.

What we need here is more people to type you/other opinions and expertise so we can put this into perspective. I summon @thehotelambush, @darya, @Cassandra, @Resonare, @phantombride.

Ooo thanks for mentioning me <3

[Jake]

I'll go with IEE.

- Definitely Delta
- Emotional? Not LSE or SLI
- A greater preference for accumulating factual knowledge and being self-sufficient than the EII's preference for being lazy and indulging in sensory pleasures

[Cosmic Teapot]

Roughly sounds EII, though this questionnaire isn't particularly informative.

Yes. Should've used your questionnaire.
Unfortunately I noticed it too late.

[darya]

EII is most likely.

[FDG]

As much as I like being with LIE (I know 2) working together is very difficult.
Storytime about a LIE: I worked in his start-up (duh) and long story short: after 7 months it took another ESI to finally tell him that whatever I did it was not good enough. That my so-called stress and inability to manage my life were a direct result of his behavior, sudden plan changes and too high expectations. I think if I was ESI then I would have told the LIE myself but I was to busy beating myself up.
You might say: "It's a start-up. Of course it's stressful" Yes. True. A start-up is like a canoe in the pacific ocean. But when the "captain" experiments with everything you become crazy. I quit.

I worked for a LIE for a while who tried to do this with me. After 3 months I stopped following his advice and did what I tought was right. Eventually after 1 year he fired me because "I was not doing all the things he asked - I was just doing the stuff I thought was right!". I was able to get out with 1 year pay since the reason he had to fire me was completely unsubstantial. I still hold it against him and if in the future I were to be able to inflict damage (not physical, just financial or w/e) on him or his family, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Cosmic Teapot]

I'm still busy with all the articles you all and @Maritsa gave me, but I'll try to reply to some posts:

I'll go with IEE.

- Definitely Delta
- Emotional? Not LSE or SLI
- A greater preference for accumulating factual knowledge and being self-sufficient than the EII's preference for being lazy and indulging in sensory pleasures

This is extremely important.
I'm always occupied with something and there is always one big hobby (or multiple that have something to do with each other) where I read up as much as I can. As soon as I think that I cannot find anything new I move on. I make notes and mindmaps to remember the most interesting stuff, but for the past year or so I'm in need of a more efficient way to connect the knowledge. Everything is important! Losing or forgetting a perspective is like becoming blind on one eye.

I know ESIs who have done that, I have done that myself (LIE), so I don´t think it´s anything strange. Maybe some "others" are weird.

That's reassuring, thanks.

I worked for a LIE for a while who tried to do this with me. After 3 months I stopped following his advice and did what I tought was right. Eventually after 1 year he fired me because "I was not doing all the things he asked - I was just doing the stuff I thought was right!". I was able to get out with 1 year pay since the reason he had to fire me was completely unsubstantial. I still hold it against him and if in the future I were to be able to inflict damage (not physical, just financial or w/e) on him or his family, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Woah scary. I'll make sure to never be on bad terms with a LIE.

[Exodus]

Yes. Should've used your questionnaire.
Unfortunately I noticed it too late.

That's ok. If you do get around to doing it I will try to go over it.

[Chae]

Yes, please post the questionnaire in a new and separate thread as well to avoid chaos here.

[Wildelita]

I think IEE is very possible

[Jake]

This is extremely important.
I'm always occupied with something and there is always one big hobby (or multiple that have something to do with each other) where I read up as much as I can. As soon as I think that I cannot find anything new I move on. I make notes and mindmaps to remember the most interesting stuff, but for the past year or so I'm in need of a more efficient way to connect the knowledge. Everything is important! Losing or forgetting a perspective is like becoming blind on one eye.

See, there's a ton of Ne here. As soon as the potential is gone you move away from it in search of something new that does have potential. There is no Fi filtering the information through first before you go after that possibility. The 'accumulating knowledge and needing to know' aspect is Te, which seems to be in the Mobilizing position.

[Adam Strange]

I worked for a LIE for a while who tried to do this with me. After 3 months I stopped following his advice and did what I tought was right. Eventually after 1 year he fired me because "I was not doing all the things he asked - I was just doing the stuff I thought was right!". I was able to get out with 1 year pay since the reason he had to fire me was completely unsubstantial. I still hold it against him and if in the future I were to be able to inflict damage (not physical, just financial or w/e) on him or his family, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

@FDG, LIE's can only work on the same team if there is a clear hierarchy and they both admire each other. If either of those things is not present, then they tend to part ways with some acrimony.

I'm tempted to quote the line from a movie at this point: "There can be only one!", but that is not exactly true. I have worked for two LIE's in different jobs before, and while I could clearly see the mistakes they were making (both with respect to their methods and the way they treated people), the mistakes were minor in the overall context of getting a nearly impossible job done. My first comment also applies to LIE's who have worked for me. (Although I've sometimes been surprised at the degree of acrimony that they've occasionally shown toward me - Lol). The good thing about working for an LIE that you *mostly* admire is that you can see how to best implement your own LIE strengths, see your own LIE mistakes in action, and see their consequences.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Yes, please post the questionnaire in a new and separate thread as well to avoid chaos here.

That's ok. If you do get around to doing it I will try to go over it.

All right
I'm working on it.

[Chae]

All right
I'm working on it.

Tag us again if you like!

[Cosmic Teapot]

Stratiyevskaya said “… the … ESI, who, once bound "by the contract", considers it necessary to observe it conscientiously and thoroughly, not waiting to get reminded or pointed to it.” - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

ESI’s are said to be strongly informed by past experiences, because their Ni is weak.

One thing that really helped me understand who I am is Stratiyevskaya’s description of LIE’s in her duality description, which I linked above.

You might want to look at the descriptions of ESI (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya) and EII (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya), and compare her descriptions of ESI-LIE duality (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya) and that of LSE-EII duality (http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya).

I've read the Stratiyevskaya EII profile as well as the Stratiyevskaya EII-LSE Dual description and it was a very uncomfortable read.
I'm not EII that's for sure. I can be sneaky and manipulative but what she describes is a whole new level
"For the EII it is very important to be the "possessor"... *internal screaming* no.


Not EII