Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: Magnus Carlsen

  1. #1
    Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    TIM
    LIE-Te 8W7
    Posts
    648
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Magnus Carlsen

    In MBTI they discuss about him being either INTJ or INTP but I have seen an ENTp with very similar visual identification, he sounds a bit boastful and arrogant to me and jokes about himself being a genius at times, as a child he could focus for long time on tasks and has very different character than ENTj Garry Kasparov. What is his type?



     










    Last edited by silke; 05-18-2019 at 06:07 AM. Reason: added pics

  2. #2
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    2,321
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was thinking ILI harmonizing. Maybe? But I don't know him that well, just watched a few videos.

    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Carl Jung on Si)

    My Pinterest

  3. #3
    khcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Magnus Carlsen - Hamlet ?



    Last edited by khcs; 05-17-2019 at 05:27 PM.

  4. #4
    roger557's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    7w8 ?

  5. #5
    khcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    7w8 ?

  6. #6
    roger557's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You know enneagram? That theory that is complementary to socionics?

  7. #7
    khcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Enneagram is about personality traits and it is not about personality types. Right?
    Last edited by khcs; 05-10-2019 at 07:07 PM.

  8. #8
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    2,321
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah LSI was an interesting suggestion. He actually seems H-LSI
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Carl Jung on Si)

    My Pinterest

  9. #9
    roger557's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    Enneagram is about personality traits and it is not about personality types. Right?
    It is about people's motivations. It can be VI'ed too

  10. #10
    Impermanence para's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,012
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    Enneagram is about personality traits and it is not about personality types. Right?
    A type is not made up of combined traits?

  11. #11
    khcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The personality traits constitute to well-defined Jungian categories.

    These categories are the 16 inescapable prison cells which we call personality types.



    I was not able to match them to the 9 loops of Enneagram.
    Last edited by khcs; 05-11-2019 at 07:13 PM.

  12. #12
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,290
    Mentioned
    951 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    Enneagram is about personality traits and it is not about personality types. Right?
    Type Characteristic role Ego fixation Holy idea Basic fear Basic desire Temptation Vice/Passion Virtue Stress/ Disintegration Security/ Integration
    1 Reformer, Perfectionist Resentment Perfection Corruptness, imbalance, being bad Goodness, integrity, balance Hypocrisy, hypercriticism Anger Serenity 4 7
    2 Helper, Giver Flattery(Ingratiation) Freedom, Will Being unloved To feel love Deny own needs, manipulation Pride Humility 8 4
    3 Achiever, Performer Vanity Hope, Law Worthlessness To feel valuable Pushing self to always be "the best" Deceit Truthfulness, Authenticity 9 6
    4 Individualist, Romantic Melancholy(Fantasizing) Origin Having no identity or significance To be uniquely themselves To overuse imagination in search of self Envy Equanimity(Emotional Balance) 2 1
    5 Investigator, Observer Stinginess (Retention) Omniscience, transparency Helplessness, incapability, incompetence Mastery, understanding Replacing direct experience with concepts Avarice Non-Attachment 7 8
    6 Loyalist, Loyal Skeptic Cowardice(Worrying) Faith Being without support or guidance To have support and guidance Indecision, doubt, seeking reassurance Fear Courage 3 9
    7 Enthusiast, Epicure Planning(Anticipation) Wisdom, Plan Being unfulfilled, trapped, deprived For life to be a fulfilling adventure Thinking fulfillment is somewhere else Gluttony Sobriety 1 5
    8 Challenger, Protector Vengeance(Objectification) Truth Being controlled, harmed, violated For life to be in their own control Thinking they are completely self-sufficient Lust(Forcefulness) Innocence 5 2
    9 Peacemaker, Mediator Indolence(Daydreaming) Love Loss, fragmentation, separation Wholeness, peace of mind Avoiding conflicts, avoiding self-assertion Sloth(Disengagement) Action 6 3

    ďMy typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.Ē​ óC.G. Jung

     



  13. #13
    khcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you @Aylen

    I believe this table can be cleaned up, reduced to 8 rows and then each row should be assigned to a single Jungian function. The whole system will become consistent this way.

    Each Jungian function may have a characteristic role, fixation, idea, fear, desire, temptation, vice/passion, stress/disintegration, security/integration.


    1 line must go! I am afraid the Enneagram professionals will not like it.

    Or 7 new line is required. One for each personality type.
    Last edited by khcs; 05-11-2019 at 08:12 PM.

  14. #14
    Kill4Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    TIM
    SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp
    Posts
    2,389
    Mentioned
    237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII-Ti 5w4 sx/so

    Added: https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/lii-ti/
    Owned: https://stackemup.livejournal.com/

    5w4...the idiosyncratic-self-sufficient gestalt

    Skinner is LII-Ti 5w6 sx/so (the solitary-self-sufficient gestalt)
    Russ Hudson is LII-Ti 9w1 sp/sx (The purposeful-leisurely gestalt)

  15. #15
    khcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hamlet ?


  16. #16
    roger557's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    LIE-Ni
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    7w8-9w8-?

  17. #17
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    4,847
    Mentioned
    423 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ti-LSI 5w6, and likely an sp/so

  18. #18
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    2,321
    Mentioned
    165 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Carl Jung on Si)

    My Pinterest

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    LII
    many chess players are ILI (caruana, anand) and LIE (kasparov, nakamura), but I agree with you that Carlsen is a LII.

  20. #20

    Default

    maybe to complete the NT types: I think Alexander Grischuk is an ILE

  21. #21

    Default

    https://youtu.be/_C-GjBSNQzM

    Magnus Carlsen makes some interesting comments about himself here, because he's literally an analytic with a creative subtype.

  22. #22
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I will go against the grain here and claim he is a LSI-Se. His mannerisms are very similar to a very good friend of mine who is a LSI-Se. They are both highly competitive and intelligent. When Magnus was 5 year olds he was very good at the memorization of flags, populations, capitals of over 200 countries which speaks to a healthy 4D -Si. Another thing that makes me lean towards a LSI-Se typing is how well developed his spatial reasoning is. This talent has given LSIís an advantage in fields like engineering. He talks about not needing to have a chessboard on him to practice chess as he can picture the chessboard in his head just fine. When he talks about picking up patterns it is actually his Ti+ categorizing different approaches , styles and counters for them. He mentioned that he doesnít think about chess theory beyond the things he finds useful to his style of play.


    I shrug off LII typings because the LIIís are no where near as competitive as he is. I shrug off an ILI typing because of just how intense of a person he is. Both LSIís and ILIís care a lot about winning as Se valuing types. However, ILIís keep that intensity on the inside (especially as they get older). However, in Magnusís case, his -Se cannot hide itself to the point that if he makes mistakes, that internal emotion boils to the surface (just look up Magnus Carlsen rages). He canít help it as that burning desire to dominate (-Se) is more potent than that of an intuitive type. Incidentally this eliminates LSI-Ti as a possible typing as LSI-Tiís are known for their stoic nature whether they win or lose. Another thing that speaks towards him being a sensor is the never swaying attention he has for his appearance and health (he groomed himself so much, that he could become a model).

    As for being an EIE... he has been known to come off as very arrogant and boastful. He is a sociable person, but it is very easy for him to come of the hinge in social situations and as a result he is not very diplomatic (1D +Fe).
    Last edited by Investigator; 12-31-2019 at 09:47 AM.

  23. #23

    Default

    I have absolutely no doubt that he is an LII. I have been following him for years and I'm pretty much watching every major tournament that he plays. I have an alpha group with friends who are interested in chess and we celebrate every victory. I consider him my soulmate.

    yesterday he won the blitz world cup and played against 17 year old Alireza Firouzja

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPysTEW0YZU

    Firouzja made an appeal against Magnus Carlsen after losing on time in a winning position, claiming that he irritated him because he spoke norwegian during the match, which was not the case. do you really think a beta type would have reacted so calmly, especially when Firouzja is much younger and has a "lower status" in the chess world?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sWVmVhBKSw

    at the end of the tournament, Carlsen said that nobody should judge Firouzja for his decision (@3:25 in the video), because he's very young and upset. this is pretty much alpha forgiveness, not focusing on the mistakes people make.

    LII 100%

    I'm rooting for Alexander Grischuk in the candidates tournament. an ILE vs LII chess championship would be a dream.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZDqUzGivU

    I think that Ding Liren will win though.

  24. #24
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    At the korona table
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,157
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I'm rooting for Alexander Grischuk in the candidates tournament. an ILE vs LII chess championship would be a dream.
    Seems bout right

    But why chess it is like you are not going to lose your lyfe or anything serious in worst case scenario... unlike in science.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  25. #25
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I have absolutely no doubt that he is an LII. I have been following him for years and I'm pretty much watching every major tournament that he plays. I have an alpha group with friends who are interested in chess and we celebrate every victory. I consider him my soulmate.

    yesterday he won the blitz world cup and played against 17 year old Alireza Firouzja

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPysTEW0YZU

    Firouzja made an appeal against Magnus Carlsen after losing on time in a winning position, claiming that he irritated him because he spoke norwegian during the match, which was not the case. do you really think a beta type would have reacted so calmly, especially when Firouzja is much younger and has a "lower status" in the chess world?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sWVmVhBKSw

    at the end of the tournament, Carlsen said that nobody should judge Firouzja for his decision (@3:25 in the video), because he's very young and upset. this is pretty much alpha forgiveness, not focusing on the mistakes people make.

    LII 100%

    I'm rooting for Alexander Grischuk in the candidates tournament. an ILE vs LII chess championship would be a dream.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZDqUzGivU

    I think that Ding Liren will win though.

    I have never seen a LII behave in this manner before in my life. Watching this sent me back to the moments of fun I had with my LSI-Se friend in High School.

  26. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator View Post

    I have never seen a LII behave in this manner before in my life. Watching this sent me back to the moments of fun I had with my LSI-Se friend in High School.
    maybe your LSI friend is an LII. I think you pretty much need intuition to play at the level of >2800 elo btw.

  27. #27
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    At the korona table
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,157
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    maybe your LSI friend is an LII. I think you pretty much need intuition to play at the level of >2800 elo btw.
    Probably you should need more result orientation (=being visually connected to the environment) but there are always exceptions. That is because process types tend to be wait and see what happens more than anticipatory and get less kicks out of winning.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  28. #28
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    maybe your LSI friend is an LII. I think you pretty much need intuition to play at the level of >2800 elo btw.
    I am 99% sure he (my friend) is a LSI-Se. I concluded as such and he tested as such. He even complained about the impractical nature of other students who had an Alpha type and hates the alpha quadra nature of the university system (though he is a successful student). Intuition is not the deciding factor for skill in chess. That's like saying intuition implies high intelligence. What intuition does is it affects your style in chess. It is widely talked about that there is a dichotomy of calculation vs intuition in chess and Magnus has admitted that he is more analytical and not very creative. LII's see chess as a great mental event, while Magnus treats it as a physical sport no different from football or tennis (he has talked about this). To him, the biggest fun is in winning (he has also talked about this), winning is everything (something I relate to a lot as a Se valuing type). I recommend watching the video.

  29. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heretic 007 View Post
    Probably you should need more result orientation (=being visually connected to the environment) but there are always exceptions. That is because process types tend to be wait and see what happens more than anticipatory.
    I think that chess is a combination of several functions. you need to have developed Te (memorisation of openings, and precise calculations in the endgame), during the middle game, intuition is very helpful, since you need to figure out possibilities, and strategic Ni also helps you a lot. Bobby Fischer and Garry Kasparov are LIE, and they were champions for a very long time. Carlsen is just this creative subtype that dedicated his whole life to chess, and LII have a characteristic of memorising very obscure things at a very young age when it falls into their sphere of interest. chess is very interesting for normalising subtypes, but he often has an edge because he plays for a win and isn't satisfied with a draw.

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator View Post
    I am 99% sure he (my friend) is a LSI-Se. I concluded as such and he tested as such. He even complained about the impractical nature of other students who had an Alpha type and hates the alpha quadra nature of the university system (though he is a successful student). Intuition is not the deciding factor for skill in chess. That's like saying intuition implies high intelligence. What intuition does is it affects your style in chess. It is widely talked about that there is a dichotomy of calculation vs intuition in chess and Magnus has admitted that he is more analytical and not very creative. LII's see chess as a great mental event, while Magnus treats it as a physical sport no different from football or tennis (he has talked about this). To him, the biggest fun is in winning (he has also talked about this), winning is everything (something I relate to a lot as a Se valuing type). I recommend watching the video.
    I watched countless of videos by him. I also already knew your video. he made so many comments about himself that made it very clear that he's an LII. I also think his father is his dual, and he accompanies him all the time to take care of the mundane organisatorial things. I also think that some of his sisters are ESE. believe me, I've analysed him more than any other person I know. he is my identical. I also want to win at everything that interests me. I am highly competitive. you probably met more normalising LII than creatives

    I really relate to most of his reactions to a ceremony. they somehow make me smile, because I know that I would react the same.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cct...ture=emb_title
    Last edited by dead account; 12-31-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  31. #31
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I watched countless of videos by him. I also already knew your video. he made so many comments about himself that made it very clear that he's an LII. I also think his father is his dual, and he accompanies him all the time to take care of the mundane organisatorial things. I also think that some of his sisters are ESE. believe me, I've analysed him more than any other person I know. he is my identical. I also want to win at everything that interests me. I am highly competitive. you probably met more normalising LII than creatives
    I think to say he is a LII with strong Ne would be a strange claim to make, considering he is very much in tuned with taking care of his body from a very young age. LII's with strong Ne don't tend to be so mindful until later on in life. When I say competitive, I should make the distinction that there is a difference between "striving for victory is fun" vs "if I don't win I am going to be pissed" (which is Magnus's frame of mind). I guess this is my final post for this thread cause I don't want to create clutter by my own creation.

  32. #32

    Default

    I have the same strong negative reactions when I lose. I don't think it's a problem to discuss his type here. it's just that I'm very sure that he's my identical, and extremly similar to me in his behaviour.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQVd5W67hJw

    >long time no see
    >doesn't even bother to look into the camera

    there are countless of videos where I just had to laugh at all the similarities to my behaviour.

  33. #33
    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    At the korona table
    TIM
    ILE-C-I
    Posts
    5,157
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I think that chess is a combination of several functions. you need to have developed Te (memorisation of openings, and precise calculations in the endgame), during the middle game, intuition is very helpful, since you need to figure out possibilities, and strategic Ni also helps you a lot. Bobby Fischer and Garry Kasparov are LIE, and they were champions for a very long time. Carlsen is just this creative subtype that dedicated his whole life to chess, and LII have a characteristic of memorising very obscure things at a very young age when it falls into their sphere of interest. chess is very interesting for normalising subtypes, but he often has an edge because he plays for a win and isn't satisfied with a draw.

    But it all starts from sensual information because there is still practically no image to brain bridge yet than senses like eyes .... touching could be also applied if rules allow it . Anyways sensors have superior image encoding capacity. In essence this calls for quantifiable bottleneck measurements.
    Last edited by COVID 007; 12-31-2019 at 09:53 PM.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  34. #34
    Investigator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I have the same strong negative reactions when I lose. I don't think it's a problem to discuss his type here. it's just that I'm very sure that he's my identical, and extremly similar to me in his behaviour.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQVd5W67hJw

    >long time no see
    >doesn't even bother to look into the camera

    there are countless of videos where I just had to laugh at all the similarities to my behaviour.
    That’s interesting. I met a LII friend (with high Ne) in my intro to Discrete Math class. One day he brought his nintendo switch to the university campus. I don’t play video games that often because I am too focused in various goals and video games are mentally taxing since I am very competitive and time consuming. So I told him this, but he insisted for me to race him in some version of mario kart... so I did. There was no way I would decline a challenge despite not knowing any of the controls (hard challenges are very invigorating). I end up beating him in one of the three races we did. He became flustered because a “newbie” beat him, but his negative reactions were clumsy and I was much obliged to playful edge him on further by rubbing the loss in his face (he could hurt someone in this state but not badly). When Magnus or my LSI-Se friend get flustered, their display of aggression comes in sharp and controlled bursts that honestly surprises me at first (the same thing happens for other Se-ego type in my experience). If he (my LSI-Se friend) displays this behavior, my immediate reaction is put the fire out (a lot of the times I would be the one starting the fires, haha).

    On a side-note: I have found that Ni-ego types are very good at provoking a fire (good or bad) within our Se-ego counterparts. At the same time, it seems we are the most capable ones to extinguish that fire.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •