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    Default Afterlife and type

    so an attempt to reach something deeper.

    This guy steve jobs said something line you can not keep any wealth beyond your gave therefor do not care about my earnings. His pay was 1 dollar a year and since he was rich beyond what is enough for a lifetime this should not be that bad.

    Ok, steve jobs was as far as we know LSI. We can argue more in depth but this seem solid, so solid you need a damn deep argument against it. Continue that Ti is logic in socionics, in the ring of socionin it is the stabilizer of beta. The LSI want to have a organization that is stable for time.

    This guy, the stabilizer, say he want no money because he can not keep it in the afterlife, if he ever believe in such a thing. He say that it is a shame he can not keep all this knowledge he have apptained. Must mean there is no afterlife that he can keep the stuff he already have.

    I do not really believe in an afterlife, yet keeping stuff from this life to the afterlife. But what if. Thinkers, do you think as steve jobs in this? Feelers do you think karma bring you a better life in the afterlife? What is your standpoint?

    Sry for spelling misstakes, just poop out what you think.

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    I think karma brings you a better life in this life. It is just asking you to be aware of how you effect/affect others. It is like a cycle of behavior so if you pay attention you will understand how it plays out in your life. I try not to make it more complicated than that. I believe that the concept of an afterlife is too complex so people just project what they know on it. You can get momentary glimpses of it now and then but they don't last. There are no words to describe those fleeting moments so fortunately we have art, music, etc...

    I also believe that the only thing you can bring with you is the experience.
    Last edited by Aylen; 12-18-2016 at 01:50 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I am convinced there is absolutely no afterlife, other than being remembered by others, as well expressed in the George Eliot poem "O May I Join the Choir Invisible".
    I'll put down my thoughts on this while we are on the subject. I don't think there is any afterlife in the religious sense, e.g heaven, hell and all that, but I do think it is possible our consciousness might find another way to manifest after death. My theory is that our consciousness is forced to always exist in some form because "experiencing death" is a paradox, and that all the other laws of the universe are subservient towards this one fact.

    I have know how or in what form in consciousnesses would continue of death, but there are theories I could list. Perhaps reincarnation is one option, or maybe us resetting to our very early infantile years and re-living our same life over and over, like an infinitely looping movie. Perhaps we where even born as a person who might be able to obtain immortality through future scientific inventions, or might be brought back to life by science. I could go on, but I do think one of them is very possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I'll put down my thoughts on this while we are on the subject. I don't think there is any afterlife in the religious sense, e.g heaven, hell and all that, but I do think it is possible our consciousness might find another way to manifest after death. My theory is that our consciousness is forced to always exist in some form because "experiencing death" is a paradox, and that all the other laws of the universe are subservient towards this one fact.

    I have know how or in what form in consciousnesses would continue of death, but there are theories I could list. Perhaps reincarnation is one option, or maybe us resetting to our very early infantile years and re-living our same life over and over, like an infinitely looping movie. Perhaps we where even born as a person who might be able to obtain immortality through future scientific inventions, or might be brought back to life by science. I could go on, but I do think one of them is very possible.
    I think the simplest solution to the paradox of "experiencing death" is that we don't experience death, that is merely the state we are in after we finish living. It is no different from losing a limb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think the simplest solution to the paradox of "experiencing death" is that we don't experience death, that is merely the state we are in after we finish living. It is no different from losing a limb.
    I read a book which goes into this, I think the book is called the belief instinct, by Jesse Bering. Basically, when we try to imagine what death is like, we can't imagine it without also bringing our sense of consciousness into it...because we are using that to imagine it. we ask ourselves what it would feel like...as if we could feel something after death. We formulate a theory of mind of a dead person, as if we would have a mind to think with. We do similar when we try to understand the experience of a plant, such as a tree. And we used to do theory of mind for the wind, volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. It's a major factor in how we developed a theory of mind for creation, and later called it god(s).
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I read a book which goes into this, I think the book is called the belief instinct, by Jesse Bering. Basically, when we try to imagine what death is like, we can't imagine it without also bringing our sense of consciousness into it...because we are using that to imagine it. we ask ourselves what it would feel like...as if we could feel something after death. We formulate a theory of mind of a dead person, as if we would have a mind to think with. We do similar when we try to understand the experience of a plant, such as a tree. And we used to do theory of mind for the wind, volcanoes, earthquakes, etc. It's a major factor in how we developed a theory of mind for creation, and later called it god(s).
    I heard something similar but find it kind of fucked up when people treat cars as the fuel is food and soso. ;p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    or maybe us resetting to our very early infantile years and re-living our same life over and over, like an infinitely looping movie.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return

    I think belief in the afterlife comes down to choice. Real existential truth (the truth of being and existence), can't be found with logic, it can only be found through the Leap of Faith™. Although this leap may be misplaced (Faith is subjective certainty in the face of objective uncertainty) one must take it in order to at least have the chance of finding existential truth and inner peace. This viewpoint has really helped me overcome nihilism. Gazing into the abyss (and it gazing into you) is not so good if you want to be happy. At least for me anyways.
    Just remember that you can't stay in midair forever and you can fall into the abyss if you don't land anywhere. That's all I have to say there.

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    I think karma is what world you are helping to create. Whatever you do, good or bad, you are helping to create a world in which people do that. It may not have the results one hopes, though. Motivation, intent, interpretation, etc have their effects, too. This could be your "afterlife", the "spirit" that you pass on to others (as in "in the spirit of [you]").

    And if reincarnation of sorts does occur, then you'll likely be born into a world in which you helped to create...where people do or react to the kinds of things you did.

    As for what we can take with us, if anything.... I think at best it's our attitudes and values...which will likely mix with others' as part of forming "God's" consciousness.
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    Pretty unanimously see jobs typed as beta nf.

    I think the whole you cant take it with you attitude is shortsided. For Jobs, with the wealth he had, I get it. But for your average person, that money helps those they leave behind. Id rather go to hell then have someone else pay for my funeral.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Pretty unanimously see jobs typed as beta nf.
    This has got to be a fucking joke. This is what the forum has come up with after how many years of running?
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    This has got to be a fucking joke. This is what the forum has come up with after how many years of running?
    No opinion on Job's type as I haven't really watched any interviews of him, but yeah the popular typings on this forum are shit more often then not and I wouldn't be surprised.
    Last edited by Muddy; 12-19-2016 at 11:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    No opinion on Job's type as I haven't really watched any interviews of him, but yeah the popular typings on this forum are shit more often then not and I wouldn't be surprised.
    This place is a bullshit NF-centric universe, just like most of the other typology forums around.
    [Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    This place is a bullshit NF-centric universe, just like most of the other typology forums around.
    Well, niffer, we are relying on you to lend some down-to-earth sanity to the place. I mean, you are good at it, so why not?

    FWIW, I don’t always get what I want, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    This place is a bullshit NF-centric universe, just like most of the other typology forums around.
    Yeah, the preference for NF (or NT) types gets completely obnoxious, to the point where I'd almost just self-type as ST or something to be contrarian (why can't NF and NT types be like any other type?). This tends to just show a disconnect between typology forums and Real Life as I see it, because a lot of my friends and family are ST (or SF) types, and a lot of awesome people in general are, and a lot of pretty average (or worse) people are NFs (or NTs). A lot of the people on typology forums just want an identity, and they pick NF (or NT) as the "special" one. My observations from attempting to type lots of random people I encounter is that all the types are more or less evenly distrubted, and if this weren't the case you'd have a lot of lonely LSEs killing each other over the few EIIs so it's more or less intuitive to me. But due to why typology forums start, I don't see the "only I can be (or ) ego" stuff stopping any time soon. Most people are really ​not that into actual psychological theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    This has got to be a fucking joke. This is what the forum has come up with after how many years of running?
    This is your chance to change it.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    I think belief in the afterlife comes down to choice. Real existential truth (the truth of being and existence), can't be found with logic, it can only be found through the Leap of Faith™. Although this leap may be misplaced (Faith is subjective certainty in the face of objective uncertainty) one must take it in order to at least have the chance of finding existential truth and inner peace. This viewpoint has really helped me overcome nihilism. Gazing into the abyss (and it gazing into you) is not so good if you want to be happy. At least for me anyways.
    Last edited by replica; 12-19-2016 at 07:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by replica View Post
    I think belief in the afterlife comes down to choice. Real existential truth (the truth of being and existence), can't be found with logic, it can only be found through the Leap of Faith™. Although this leap may be misplaced (Faith is subjective certainty in the face of objective uncertainty) one must take it in order to at least have the chance of finding existential truth and inner peace. This viewpoint has really helped me overcome nihilism. Gazing into the abyss (and it gazing into you) is not so good if you want to be happy. At least for me anyways.
    my truth of being, existence etc. comes through doing what is most rational: I don't think that is a leap of faith, and I believe I act the same regardless of whether or not an afterlife exists.

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    I agree that Steve Jobs is an LSI. Watch any documentary with him talking and it should be clear. He's the polar opposite of Tony Robbins, who is EIE, a success in humanitarian ventures.

    I feel similar to Steve Jobs. Whether there exists an afterlife or not, I feel that I can't bring anything, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to be successful while I'm alive and to create something that might last beyond me, which my children, loved ones, and other successors might be able to benefit off of.
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    I consider death final, my feelings towards this opinion are secondary to the opinion. I haven't completely come to terms with the nothingness, but the time for me to cease is coming nearer. There is an anxiety because of this discrepancy/lack of an answer/complacency to answer. I'm not sure if it is possible to be fully accustomed to death, the concept of it runs in the opposite direct of the foundation of me. On the other hand I see living for the sake of living to be meaningless. Preserving one's own live and doing nothing else comes across as cowardly. Reasons for living that reject self preservation seem truer. Perhaps the reasons are eternal like the logos and in a sense have a remanence of afterlife interwoven in them. I feel as though I need to charge in the face of death but only the romantic concept of it and only to live a life fuller.
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    This life > afterlife. Because I can influence and know the former, but not the latter. So I go by what I can impact, it's a question of will. Hence, I won't bother pondering a lot about what's beyond, albeit I don't negate the possibility of it

    Aka, if afterlife exists and I experience it, I'll deal with that as the situation arises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    This life > afterlife. Because I can influence and know the former, but not the latter. So I go by what I can impact, it's a question of will. Hence, I won't bother pondering a lot about what's beyond, albeit I don't negate the possibility of it

    Aka, if afterlife exists and I experience it, I'll deal with that as the situation arises.
    But what if you need to prepare for the next life in this life? Your actions here have consequences there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    But what if you need to prepare for the next life in this life? Your actions here have consequences there.
    Excellent question - That's exactly why focussing on the right now is the best method. It pays off automatically, long-term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Excellent question - That's exactly why focussing on the right now is the best method. It pays off automatically, long-term.
    ok, but if you focus on the present by, say, acquiring money and status then you have essentially wasted your life since you have used it for things that will not benefit you in the hereafter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    ok, but if you focus on the present by, say, acquiring money and status then you have essentially wasted your life since you have used it for things that will not benefit you in the hereafter.
    You cannot know what benefits you in the hereafter as nobody knows how it's like, or if it actually exists! You sound like Middle Age Christianity low-key impacts your views, "you can't buy a house in heaven". Also, your PoLR is showing, what if engaging in the hustle is the exact personality feat required to build a foundation for being benefitted in the hereafter? You just cannot know. That's why being content in the present moment is all we have Thinking about the afterlife is the true way to waste your time.

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    I think Steve Jobs is LIE rather than LSI IMO. As for an afterlife existing, we probably go back to wherever we were before we were born. Anyways, I like what Bill Hicks (I think he's Ne-ILE) has to say about this life:

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    I definitely don't believe in karma. Good people live horrible lives, and evil people live happy lives all the time. It confuses what "is" versus what "should be". Supposing we get justice after death seems both pointless and like wishful thinking to me. I don't even really consider that justice, in my understanding of it...

    I am not sure about life after death. It seems to me that consciousness probably stops when we die, and that's the end, but I don't claim certainty on that.
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    I have read a lot about the afterlife in NDEs and I really worry about life after death. Why? I worry that it is simply a place with no rules, no systems, no knowledge, no ethics. People who come back say things that I cannot make sense of - e.g., "there is no evil" (which implies that there is no morality) or something contradictory like "there is no evil" but OTOH "you suffer because of past lives." It really frightens me. I am not deeply religious, but I am Christian, and while I don't think a Christian afterlife is perfect, I think it sounds more reasonable.

    I should add that I have no disliking of Eastern relgions or Eastern Mysticism; I strongly believe that there should be a place for everyone's faith. I simply cannot understand why there is no place for Western belief systems in the afterlife at all! Maybe people with Western beliefs are simply not reporting any kind of NDE... Just my two cents...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    I have read a lot about the afterlife in NDEs and I really worry about life after death. Why? I worry that it is simply a place with no rules, no systems, no knowledge, no ethics. People who come back say things that I cannot make sense of - e.g., "there is no evil" (which implies that there is no morality) or something contradictory like "there is no evil" but OTOH "you suffer because of past lives." It really frightens me. I am not deeply religious, but I am Christian, and while I don't think a Christian afterlife is perfect, I think it sounds more reasonable.

    I should add that I have no disliking of Eastern relgions or Eastern Mysticism; I strongly believe that there should be a place for everyone's faith. I simply cannot understand why there is no place for Western belief systems in the afterlife at all! Maybe people with Western beliefs are simply not reporting any kind of NDE... Just my two cents...

    Jason
    I have read several books on NDEs and most were influenced by westerns christian beliefs. Do a quick search. There are some famous ones.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    I have read a lot about the afterlife in NDEs and I really worry about life after death. Why? I worry that it is simply a place with no rules, no systems, no knowledge, no ethics. People who come back say things that I cannot make sense of - e.g., "there is no evil" (which implies that there is no morality) or something contradictory like "there is no evil" but OTOH "you suffer because of past lives." It really frightens me.
    What might frighten you even more or comfort you is that there is a possibility that you might not be the same in the slightest. Your senses may no longer exist or exist as you understand them to do now, you might not have a brain and a body (or even a different vessel) and all that entails in terms of cognition and survival.

    Perhaps the chaos would feel like home.
    Last edited by leckysupport; 12-20-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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    One spiritual way of viewing it which I like is that the experience in itself is the same in all people but the mechanics in the person, the maze of the mind and body and the knowledge gained and situation make the person special.

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    I strongly disregard this whole spirituality thing. Karma and its equivalents among countless religions is a memetic behavioral modification tool that gets spread around so people will behave better and follow more laws. It benefits the government/society for people to think that they will get punished after they die for robbing/killing/fornicating etc. and therefore it is expected that those sort of beliefs would proliferate to the levels we see them at today.
    Last edited by Muddy; 12-21-2016 at 12:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I strongly disregard this whole spirituality thing. Karma and its equivalents among countless religions is a memetic behavioral modification tool that gets spread around so people will behave better and follow more laws. It benefits the government/society for people to think that they will get punished after they die for robbing/killing/fornicating etc. and therefore it is expected that those sort of beliefs would proliferate to the levels we see them at today.
    Actually, it doesn't necessarily benefit society as a whole or the propagation of the human race for people to play nice with each other. Just take a look at the animal kingdom.

    Also, not all afterlife concepts or religions are even like that. Some are boring places with shades moping about how they'd like to live, or people lost in a maze. Of course those aren't the most popular religions though.
    Last edited by Pallas; 12-21-2016 at 04:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    Actually, it doesn't necessarily benefit society as a whole or the propagation of the human race for people to play nice with each other. Just take a look at the animal kingdom.

    Also, not all afterlife concepts or religions are even like that. Some are boring places with shades moping about how they'd like to live, or people lost in a maze. Of course those aren't the most popular religions though.
    It does depend on whatever the needs of the society are, but within most large modern day civilizations, peace encouraging religions are going to outspread war/violence encouraging religions at least 90% of time. With older and/or smaller civilizations, it might of been more beneficial to have more crazy war encouraging beliefs.

    The Vikings, for example, didn't have enough farmable to be able to live as peacefully as most others civilizations and they needed to pillage, and therefore the adopted a religion that encouraged death and glory in battle. In stable modern civilization however those sort of beliefs would wipe out their own followers while peace orientated beliefs continue would to proliferate due to tighter law enforcement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    I strongly disregard this whole spirituality thing. Karma and its equivalents among countless religions is a memetic behavioral modification tool that gets spread around so people will behave better and follow more laws. It benefits the government/society for people to think that they will get punished after they die for robbing/killing/fornicating etc. and therefore it is expected that those sort of beliefs would proliferate to the levels we see them at today.
    Societies that are more religious than average are actually more vengeful and violent on average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Societies that are more religious than average are actually more vengeful and violent on average.
    Because people who are already violent find strong justification in the ideology of religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Because people who are already violent find strong justification in the ideology of religion.
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." ~ Steven Weinberg

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    I think there is no afterlife , but this is some weird shit that gos on

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    No afterlife, I have a hard time even picturing it. I think living forever is a horrible curse....

    I've noticed that I always feel a sense of natural relief when things get cancelled (or they end) ... it's just one less thing to worry/care about. Although I might be in temporary pain and wish for life to go on.... once I'm gone there just won't be anything and I think in this strange spiritual way- that is actually the most perfect Heaven there is. Nothing-ness gets a bad rap, like in this bad Angel episode they said the most evil thing there was 'nothing' which is dumb and not true. The most evil thing is torture with a lot of substance. (like cutting off ur children's toes and making you eat it and shit like that) Also when most people ponder about nihilism, they do it in a very depressing way. But nothing is nothing...and I think in a philosophical sense it might actually be the highest form of Good.

    Not only does life not have any meaning- but life is destined to end. And I think that is beautiful. You don't need to pretend to go to heaven where everything is perfect, it is make-believe and you are in a big shock when you just die and there is nothing left. Also the gay people you don't like won't go to hell forever either, sorry. But that nothing is ultimate freedom. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING. Santa Claus isn't real, but as a kid he still inspired me... Merry Christmas. I wish you a very Nothing New Year.

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