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Thread: The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement: Super ego Fi and Se?

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    Default The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement: Super ego Fi and Se?

    http://www.vhemt.org/
    “May we live long and die out”


    Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth’s biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.


    Your thoughts on this topic. I can find several other viewpoints supporting this than just earth's biosphere: for example to achieve peace to end all misery and so on.
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    taken to an extreme:

    http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#intelltest

    Whether Gamma or Beta seems less clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    taken to an extreme:

    http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#intelltest

    Whether Gamma or Beta seems less clear.

    This site seems like a big joke.

    For example, this excerpt:
    "Q: What about the human instinct to breed?Humans, like all creatures, have urges which lead to reproduction. Our biological urge is to have sex, not to make babies. Our “instinct to breed” is the same as a squirrel’s instinct to plant trees: the urge is to store food, trees are a natural result. If sex is an urge to procreate, then hunger’s an urge to defecate.
    Culturally-induced desires can be so strong that they seem to be biological, but no evolutionary mechanism for an instinct to breed exists. Why do we stop breeding after we’ve had as many as we want? If the instinct is to reproduce, how are so many of us able to over ride it? There are too many who have never felt that urge: mutations don’t occur in this high a percentage of a population.
    Looking to our evolutionary roots, imagine Homo erectus feeling the urge to create a new human. He then has to understand that a cavewoman is needed, sexual intercourse must be engaged in, and they will have to wait nine months.
    Considering how often our species has the urge for sex, it’s likely human sexuality serves primarily a pair-bonding function rather than procreative. Human infants are vulnerable for so long that their survival, in prehistoric times, may have depended on a strong pair bond between parents. Bonobos, perhaps our closest biological relative, are reported to engage in sex for social reasons more than for reproductive reasons."


    Humans have sexual urges because we are no different than any other species. We have the instinct to reproduce and pass on our genes. Now yes, sex is pleasurable but ultimately the purpose is to procreate in the end.

    Having and raising children can be extremely rewarding and the people who want them by all means should be encouraged to do.
    However, I do believe in population control to some extent. When people have more children than they can financially afford, it strains the resources, the quality of life ends up being poorer as a result. Educate the people so they know what having a child truly entails. Discourage people from having more children than they can realistically afford and encourage birth control.

    I don't believe so much in phasing out the human race as I do in educating the public to more wisely use the resources we have, those that are able to give to the poor and disadvantaged, and to discourage people from having more children than they can financially and psychologically afford.




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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    taken to an extreme:

    http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#intelltest

    Whether Gamma or Beta seems less clear.
    Critical analysis > Value Judgement. Id lean T > F.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    taken to an extreme:

    http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#intelltest

    Whether Gamma or Beta seems less clear.
    Gamma T, a lot of profitability ideas floating around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    You can leave that to several billions of other people though. It could be someone else posting this instead of us. I mean, we should be grateful for existing but not overvalue it to the point of forcing others to do it (something that society, in fact, does successfully). We're just producing more decaying material, "someone's gotta do it" sounds hilarious in that context
    Aha I have known a shitload of people singing the same song and then boom guess what. So I'd like to continue this conversation in 20 years.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    Aha I have known a shitload of people singing the same song and then boom guess what. So I'd like to continue this conversation in 20 years.
    Reason: a deadly combination of hormones and heterosexual interactions

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    taken to an extreme:

    http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#intelltest

    Whether Gamma or Beta seems less clear.
    lmao

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    lol 'Breeder bingo.'

    I've heard/read about this woman before and her work, and I think she's a lesbian queer activist or something? I find her really inspiring and entertaining - but unfortunately, most of the society is a sinful and soulless heterosexual with no ethical morals and they are not going to listen to her.

    Stating the obvious time: Unethical people like a lot of conflict. The more the merrier, even though any additional equation you add into something is going to disrupt the inherent faggy peace of a situation. Least said soon as mended, so you wanna start a fight- you open up your big mouth. Having close intimate conversations with people who really care about you, taking your time and being gentle- these traits are not going to be valued or rewarded in a crazed out mess of Trump's New Amerikkka that worships chaos and cruelty over inner peace.

    Though of course 'when we do shitty things in life we don't think we're not righteous/we think we have the right' the only way to be truly peaceful is for everything to be dead- but then there is nothing. And so heterosexuals are always arrogant and allowed to be that way objectively because they know they are the reason gay people exist in the first place. If you cannot condescend against your own artwork- what worth do you really have, after all? It's a catch 22 that goes no where. Better to try and enjoy your life the best you can. Even with all the crazy breeders.

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    It seems serious...it says it's not a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    It seems serious...it says it's not a joke.
    That's what they all say.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Basically this is the motivating factor driving the premise for Dan Brown's last book in the Davinci Code series. The newly released film Inferno, starring Tom Hanks, has protagonists racing against the clock to stop a super virus that would kill a large percentage thus saving Mother Earth. Spoiler: the book ends with the virus being released causing people to go sterile. The movie ends with Tom Hanks saving the day and no world wide Inferno. Fuck u hollywood.

    My own thoughts on it are its a dumb idea written by people with a rudimentary understanding of biology, evolution, and homo sapian anthropology. With "all or nothing" destruction of humanity ethos, itself a cancerous relic from cultural judea-christian myth, we are asked to believe that the entirety of the human race is so inherently wrong that we do not fit into the natural order of this planet, that we are somehow removed from life so dramatically and with such destructive consequences, that the only solution is annihilation.

    No thanks. I don't subscribe to "first guilt" and do not need to apologise for my, nor my family, nor my fellow man's existence on planet Earth.

    Because the problem lies not with us as a species - we are of this Earth and evolved NOT exclusively with the capacity to manipulate the environment for our survival. Believe we are naturally adapted to live almost technologically free. Case in point the nomadic hunter gatherer people found on pretty much any continent.

    The problem lies in the technology that can now shape ecosystems, not with the great ape as a species. Plain and simple. I frankely do not subscribe to destruction philosophies. I do not subscribe to first guilt. I do not feel incumbent on my fellow man to destroy the splitting and rehashing of my genes of the future generations of peoples. Humanity as a whole is not a unit and therefor cannot be rounded up as a single entity for eradication by it own self to serve some ill placed planetary alturism that in actuality has its roots in cultural end of world myths. Psycopaths think this way.

    There will always be some humanity. Some group of people mostly far removed from the technological forces that created this mess and those people will be thriving using skills human beings learned in times long past.

    If you are interested in this topic and you enjoy reading fiction them check out Margot Atwoods book Oryx and Crake. The setting takes place in a future so dystopic, with humanities tampering the genome gone so wonky, humanity disappears entirelly forever. The antagonist of the novel thought the same way as the op.

    As to it being the result of super egoed Fi, Se, no idea, but I would be interested in hearing some justification for it. As it stands it doesn't seem type related. Unless you are saying a gamma would never consider this idea the op espouses, perhaps because its "just not right" and is therefor Fi-polr?

    Type related deals in universals. Only things that are universally true, or have the potential to be, are type related.

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    well frankly i agree people should stop having so many kids. 7.4 billion people: fucking insane. anyway, i'm not having kids.

    i completely agree with most of what they say on this page. i don't want humanity to go extinct though, just to stop having so many babies so we can reach a more manageable population.
    Last edited by inumbra; 12-04-2016 at 03:58 PM.

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    I plan to have my tubes tied in the future, I decided not to have kids pretty early.

    Some reasonings of mine:

    - Strongest and most repelling argument first, I have body dysmorphia. Experiencing a moving parasite growing in my womb for several months would equal mental exitus for me. Being pregnant and giving birth sounds like torture, and according to most accounts by women I know, it is. For instance, my brother had to be turned by 360° twice inside of mom because he had wrapped the umbilical cord around his neck. That exceeds body horror. I'm freaked out even by the thought of it I'm about to cry (I don't want my kid to inherit my disorder either, I inherited it myself)
    - We'll save several metric tons of CO2
    - and money. Seriously: fewer kids = the economy is saved
    - silence for everyone
    - Didn't get a babysitter certificate for nothing, when I have maternal needs I will go and get what I want AND RECEIVE CASH FOR IT HAAAA
    - I won't have to send that poor human being to a prison called school
    - I'm selfish (the irony, people who have children usually start elaborating why they desired children with "I wanted")
    - My career is my legacy
    - This kid would ruin my relationship
    - sex. sex sex sex sex sex.
    - I removed the batteries from my biological clock and put them into...
    - travelling
    - I feel complete without it
    - I love challenges but not that one
    - there's outside pressure for me to be, let's name it, an incubator. "You'll change your mind", "It will be beautiful", "It will make you happy" (as if I am unhappy or need to foster a parasite to become happy), all that talk. That makes me twice as determined. They can't control me and my choices. End of story. If they try to, I will eradicate them from my life. This entitlement is never acceptable. Never. It's 100% wrong.
    - Nobody will miss out on something, my kid would have my genes of savagery and that's a rocky ride for everyone
    - in general, my genes are nothing that would bless this planet. I wouldn't contribute anything proper, I'll rather do that myself
    - I'll have to sacrifice 20 years of my life to turn this individual into something able to handle this world
    - Idk about you but cleaning vomit and poop doesn't appeal to me
    - Can't even look after myself properly, how could I cater to a needy unsocialized human 24/7 and it isn't even grateful
    - I'm a dancer, my body is my tool. Also I like my music loud
    - If I had a kid, a father would be needed. That poor man would have to deal with me lmao I won't do this to him
    - I aim at making enough money to get an ample pension
    - My sleep is holy
    - perfectionism
    - All these loud extreme emotions... I'd be so ruined. Emotions are my job. My dual is low in Fe you know
    - I don't want to lie to myself all the time. I like pretense but not living an illusion
    - I don't want to fit in
    - It's just not my purpose
    - I'm not a masochist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    I plan to have my tubes tied in the future, I decided not to have kids pretty early.

    Some reasonings of mine:

    - Strongest and most repelling argument first, I have body dysmorphia. Experiencing a moving parasite growing in my womb for several months would equal mental exitus for me. Being pregnant and giving birth sounds like torture, and according to most accounts by women I know, it is. For instance, my brother had to be turned by 360° twice inside of mom because he had wrapped the umbilical cord around his neck. That exceeds body horror. I'm freaked out even by the thought of it I'm about to cry (I don't want my kid to inherit my disorder either, I inherited it myself)
    - We'll save several metric tons of CO2
    - and money. Seriously: fewer kids = the economy is saved
    - silence for everyone
    - Didn't get a babysitter certificate for nothing, when I have maternal needs I will go and get what I want AND RECEIVE CASH FOR IT HAAAA
    - I won't have to send that poor human being to a prison called school
    - I'm selfish (the irony, people who have children usually start elaborating why they desired children with "I wanted")
    - My career is my legacy
    - This kid would ruin my relationship
    - sex. sex sex sex sex sex.
    - I removed the batteries from my biological clock and put them into...
    - travelling
    - I feel complete without it
    - I love challenges but not that one
    - there's outside pressure for me to be, let's name it, an incubator. "You'll change your mind", "It will be beautiful", "It will make you happy" (as if I am unhappy or need to foster a parasite to become happy), all that talk. That makes me twice as determined. They can't control me and my choices. End of story. If they try to, I will eradicate them from my life. This entitlement is never acceptable. Never. It's 100% wrong.
    - Nobody will miss out on something, my kid would have my genes of savagery and that's a rocky ride for everyone
    - in general, my genes are nothing that would bless this planet. I wouldn't contribute anything proper, I'll rather do that myself
    - I'll have to sacrifice 20 years of my life to turn this individual into something able to handle this world
    - Idk about you but cleaning vomit and poop doesn't appeal to me
    - Can't even look after myself properly, how could I cater to a needy unsocialized human 24/7 and it isn't even grateful
    - I'm a dancer, my body is my tool. Also I like my music loud
    - If I had a kid, a father would be needed. That poor man would have to deal with me lmao I won't do this to him
    - I aim at making enough money to get an ample pension
    - My sleep is holy
    - perfectionism
    - All these loud extreme emotions... I'd be so ruined. Emotions are my job. My dual is low in Fe you know
    - I don't want to lie to myself all the time. I like pretense but not living an illusion
    - I don't want to fit in
    - It's just not my purpose
    - I'm not a masochist

    Ha ha. I don't want kids either for most of the same reasons. But someone's gotta do it or we wouldn't be here to post this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Ha ha. I don't want kids either for most of the same reasons. But someone's gotta do it or we wouldn't be here to post this.
    You can leave that to several billions of other people though. It could be someone else posting this instead of us. I mean, we should be grateful for existing but not overvalue it to the point of forcing others to do it (something that society, in fact, does successfully). We're just producing more decaying material, "someone's gotta do it" sounds hilarious in that context

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    they are antisocial subversives and should be rounded up by the authorities tbh
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    My reasoning: Movement is against of using force and does not appreciate humanity. This would make it alpha NT super ego block (with some deep nihilistic tendencies on being a human). It also encourages enjoyment of life.

    It is not clearly against individuals but clearly sees humanity as a whole very flawed because it enforces on other species.
    Last edited by Sanguine Miasma; 12-04-2016 at 04:44 AM.
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    It is obvious that when you want to convince others... then make arguments across the board. What is the overall idea here?
    Yes, exactly: we are using focusing on instead of detaching for impersonal analysis thinking multiple consequences and it is wrong.

    They are essentially rooting for enjoyment and children (but not making them as personal sacrifice).
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    It is obvious that when you want to convince others... then make arguments across the board. What is the overall idea here?
    Yes, exactly: we are using focusing on instead of detaching for impersonal analysis thinking multiple consequences and it is wrong.

    They are essentially rooting for enjoyment and children (but not making them as personal sacrifice).
    Actually...that guy could be LII.

    You're right, it seems like his reasoning is just that this is the logical thing to do: one less species is not as bad as thousands of species going extinct - completely ignoring the fact that it is our own species. And it's good for the planet

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    A world with no people around sounds awesome, I would be able take whatever I want and do whatever I want without any reason for hesitation. But in reality all a plan like this would is make the people who care enough about the planet to do this make themselves go extinct while all the redneck hillbillies who don't gave damn about the future of the planet continue to breed and multiply. The only way this is going to happen is if we create a mega-******.

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    A lot of things are not quadra related but rather related to other factors related to type. This seems full of negativism more so than any specific quadra.

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    VHEMT has been around forever. It's basically irrelevant whether humanity chooses to continue or not. The universe itself must ultimately run out of energy and die due to entropy and everything humanity created will be destroyed in the process. Since life mostly leads to suffering and struggle for most of the population, there is no reason why breeding more of it must continue. Maybe it would be better if humanity just refused to bring more children into the world, and we enjoyed the remainder of our lives until the last of us is snuffed out from natural causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncivilized View Post
    VHEMT has been around forever. It's basically irrelevant whether humanity chooses to continue or not. The universe itself must ultimately run out of energy and die due to entropy and everything humanity created will be destroyed in the process. Since life mostly leads to suffering and struggle for most of the population, there is no reason why breeding more of it must continue. Maybe it would be better if humanity just refused to bring more children into the world, and we enjoyed the remainder of our lives until the last of us is snuffed out from natural causes.
    That won't happen until billions of years from now. Who knows, maybe by then we would come up with some new scientific finding or new technology that will somehow allow us to get around this problem. Maybe we can find a way to transport us to a parallel universe with different laws of physics. May be impossible now, but if you're talking about something that distant in the future, one can only hope that we can find a find a way out.

    Even if we can't, life for humanity in general has improved over time. New technologies, greatly increased lifespan. No reason why it can't be even better in the future. Humanity may not last forever but why not at least prolong it as long as we can if the quality of life as a whole is improving for humanity?

    If we just let humanity die out on its own, other species will still exist. Now those species are not intelligent in the same way humans are. They don't understand entropy or energy in the universe. So they are going to breed regardless. Species evolve over time, and who knows, there might be another intelligent species like us that re-emerges. It may not be the exact same species more likely, but it could be another species like us that exploits the earth's resources and wonders about the meaning of life in the universe as a whole. So what would be the point of deliberately trying to extinguish humanity if something similar to it emerged again in the distant future?
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    Forced sterilization is probably the best way to save the planet from pollution, it probably is too late but if we wish to try... Maybe the only caveat is: is it possible to actually do? There would be many factors interfering with & complicating it. For example, if a small segment of the population lived on and decided to repopulate... we didn't really accomplish anything.
    Last edited by rat200Turbo; 12-04-2016 at 11:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat1776 View Post
    Forced sterilization is the best way to save the planet from pollution, it probably is too late but if we wish to try than yes I think this is the way to go.
    Then you have the challenge of deciding how many people to sterilize, who to sterilize, etc. If you sterilize everyone, human race dies out. Are you advocating death of the human race or just increased population control?
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    Well it IS the best way to save the planet, but should we do it? I thought about that and unless we completely eliminate the human race there is really no point to it. The remaining people will eventually overpollute the earth. And they probably will repopulate eventually anyway. It may slow the process but it doesn't accomplish anything. There is not such a strong top down government system that could enforce such a population regiment forever.
    So I would have to advocate the complete elimination. BUT... I don't think I do support that either. Humans are the highest life form with the highest state of consciousness, among other things.

  27. #27
    Seed my wickedness Sanguine Miasma's Avatar
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    Human extinction itself not that easily to type (however I kind of see it as anti in the end that requires analytic detachment and disregarding personal feelings, probably democratic quadra. There are gammas deltas who are very much pro human. Among quadras especially betas are pro society.) Voluntary, movement and so on gives little more.
    Those who say the goal is not attainable: Just attempt to go into LII's head regarding this. Typical alpha ideological stance. It would work if... Whether or not it comes to fruition: what ever.
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