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Thread: USA politics following Trump's election

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Lol.

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    Nikki Haley resigned. Interesting.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I hope that such people are in a minority and not being representative for the entire population of the land.

    Because democracy only functions properly if the number of sane people outweights the number of morons.

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    I believe this man means everything he says.

    [ur l]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofh_QHho_qA[/url]

    I'm calling it now: I think he's the future of the Democratic Party.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Looks like Trump still has 1% of the vote.

    https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-co...3Trump2020.pdf

    (28% as opposed to 27%.)

    See this :http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10...ification.html
    for an explanation for the 27%

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I hope that such people are in a minority and not being representative for the entire population of the land.

    Because democracy only functions properly if the number of sane people outweights the number of morons.

    You're pretty optimistic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    You're pretty optimistic!
    Frankly said, I'm not an US citizen and I don't know many people in the USA, so it was a wild guess for me.
    D. Trump is a loud mouth braggart to my perception... giving emotional manipulative speeches is probably what he does best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Frankly said, I'm not an US citizen and I don't know many people in the USA, so it was a wild guess for me.
    Would that I lived in such an educated country as yours! Our public education system is pretty terrible. I don't say lightly that spending a few minutes in a grocery store or public area would quickly strip you of the hopes you'd expressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Would that I lived in such an educated country as yours! Our public education system is pretty terrible. I don't say lightly that spending a few minutes in a grocery store or public area would quickly strip you of the hopes you'd expressed.
    True. Incoming college freshmen are, for the most part, incredibly under-educated. I have been teaching college classes for a long time now and it keeps getting worse, especially with regards to critical thinking skills. That being said, they can and do learn when exposed to the knowledge and skills.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    True. Incoming college freshmen are, for the most part, incredibly under-educated. I have been teaching college classes for a long time now and it keeps getting worse, especially with regards to critical thinking skills. That being said, they can and do learn when exposed to the knowledge and skills.
    Whether they're willing to learn is pretty dependent on the individual, though, and plenty just don't want to. But what do you teach, out of curiosity?

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    Another damned Welfare cheater. Where is Ronald Raygun or Donald Trump when you need someone to publicize this stuff?:

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/23/us/ar...ard/index.html

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................................................

    Oh, wait. This guy isn't a minority. Nevermind.

    I'm guessing that this guy is ILE, from the Rick and Morty episode alone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evYxx8qjZFs
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-24-2019 at 01:51 PM.

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    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    Trump = SEE
    Elizabeth Warren = LII.

    Conflictors.

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    Trump subreddit got quarantined. The coming shitshow ought to be entertaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Trump subreddit got quarantined. The coming shitshow ought to be entertaining.
    Regarding censorship, you might wonder how Nazi Germany went from the nearly bankrupt country full of racist and exterminating Nazis to the economic powerhouse it is today. What happened to all of those Nazis and their ideas?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRmHOSnehTk
    https://archive.org/details/youtube-J-P2iBJWOTk

    It was done by censoring the worst elements.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censor...lic_of_Germany
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-27-2019 at 02:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Regarding censorship, you might wonder how Nazi Germany went from the nearly bankrupt country full of racist and exterminating Nazis to the economic powerhouse it is today. What happened to all of those Nazis and their ideas?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRmHOSnehTk
    https://archive.org/details/youtube-J-P2iBJWOTk

    It was done by censoring the worst elements.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censor...lic_of_Germany
    Also by pumping a shit-ton of American money into the country.
    But, after all, who knows, and who can say
    whence it all came, and how creation happened? The gods themselves are later than creation, so who knows truly whence it has arisen?


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Also by pumping a shit-ton of American money into the country.
    I would have thought so, too, but wikipedia said this:

    After World War II, according to the Potsdam conference held between July 17 and August 2, 1945, Germany was to pay the Allies US$23 billion mainly in machinery and manufacturing plants. Reparations to the Soviet Union stopped in 1953. Large numbers of factories were dismantled or destroyed.[citation needed] Dismantling in the west stopped in 1950.
    Beginning before the German surrender and continuing for the next two years, the United States pursued a vigorous program of harvesting all technological and scientific know-how as well as all patents and many leading scientists in Germany (known as Operation Paperclip). Historian John Gimbel, in his book Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany, states that the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion.[8] German reparations were partly to be in the form of forced labor. By 1947, approximately 4,000,000 German POWs and civilians were used as forced labor (under various headings, such as "reparations labor" or "enforced labor") in the Soviet Union, France, the UK, Belgium and in Germany in U.S run "Military Labor Service Units".


    But apparently, much of Germany's foreign debt was effectively cancelled in 1953.

    https://jubileedebt.org.uk/report/eu...anys-debt-1953

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I would have thought so, too, but wikipedia said this:

    After World War II, according to the Potsdam conference held between July 17 and August 2, 1945, Germany was to pay the Allies US$23 billion mainly in machinery and manufacturing plants. Reparations to the Soviet Union stopped in 1953. Large numbers of factories were dismantled or destroyed.[citation needed] Dismantling in the west stopped in 1950.
    Beginning before the German surrender and continuing for the next two years, the United States pursued a vigorous program of harvesting all technological and scientific know-how as well as all patents and many leading scientists in Germany (known as Operation Paperclip). Historian John Gimbel, in his book Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany, states that the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion.[8] German reparations were partly to be in the form of forced labor. By 1947, approximately 4,000,000 German POWs and civilians were used as forced labor (under various headings, such as "reparations labor" or "enforced labor") in the Soviet Union, France, the UK, Belgium and in Germany in U.S run "Military Labor Service Units".


    But apparently, much of Germany's foreign debt was effectively cancelled in 1953.

    https://jubileedebt.org.uk/report/eu...anys-debt-1953
    That’s interesting. Some thoughts:

    The Wikipedia article on the Marshall Plan said US grants and loans to Germany totalled around 1.4 billion, and that its debt was reduced to under 1 billion in 1953. Forced labor aside, it seems that Germany did receive a fair anount of money from this deal, considering the terms mentioned in the article you linked: In the 1953 conference, it was decided Germany would only repay its debts while it had a trade surplus, avoiding the need for austerity or to stop re-building the country in order to pay.

    About the forced labor, where did the convicts operate? In Germany or outside it? If in Germany, they may have been forced into economically productive labor. I’ll try to read more about this. My Internet is not the best at the moment.
    But, after all, who knows, and who can say
    whence it all came, and how creation happened? The gods themselves are later than creation, so who knows truly whence it has arisen?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    What happened to all of those Nazis and their ideas?


    It was done by censoring the worst elements.
    I mean yeah, actively cracking down and throwing people in prison within minimal restraint tends to hinder the people and ideas you are targeting. I'm not quite convinced banning things on social media is as effective, especially in America where we have the first amendment which a lot people religiously defend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Regarding censorship, you might wonder how Nazi Germany went from the nearly bankrupt country full of racist and exterminating Nazis to the economic powerhouse it is today. What happened to all of those Nazis and their ideas?

    It was done by censoring the worst elements.
    You don't understand people very well, do you?

    Most aren't that ideologically motivated in the 1st place and will pragmatically conform (at least publicly) to whatever appears to be strong horse so they can get on with their lives. Well-established that the vast majority of Nazi party members (millions) were in it for career advancement—little different from how one might donate to Democrats or Republicans to advance within certain social circles.

    Whereas those who are ideologically motivated also tend to be the most tractable:

  23. #303

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    ^^A lot of people, maybe most, love a strongman, unfortunately. I don't think ideology holds that much importance for these people, so much as the thirst for a strongman autocrat to inspire them. So such shifts aren't too surprising. It's why some people so easily 180'ed from Bernie to Trump in 2016.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Perpetual Now View Post
    ^^A lot of people, maybe most, love a strongman, unfortunately. I don't think ideology holds that much importance for these people, so much as the thirst for a strongman autocrat to inspire them. So such shifts aren't too surprising. It's why some people so easily 180'ed from Bernie to Trump in 2016.
    @The Perpetual Now, you are so right.

    Most of the times when you see what seem to be ideological shifts in people from one political extreme to the other, what you are really seeing are the actions of a person who is an Authoritarian.

    https://theauthoritarians.org/Downlo...oritarians.pdf

    Personally, I feel that Authoritarians are a greater impediment to finding solutions to group survival than being either conservative or liberal, but that's just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Personally, I feel that Authoritarians are a greater impediment to finding solutions to group survival than being either conservative or liberal, but that's just my opinion.


    I agree.

    The problem is that people who tend toward libertarianism (I'm using the term very broadly here, to encompass not just the narrow idea of American libertarianism, but also European libertarianism, Libertarian Socialism, etc.) will, by the very nature of their anti-authoritarian worldviews, always have a harder time fighting back against authoritarianism. If they rally behind their own strongman personality to combat the authoritarian strongman, then they've already lost and given in to exactly what they sought to defeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Perpetual Now View Post


    I agree.

    The problem is that people who tend toward libertarianism (I'm using the term very broadly here, to encompass not just the narrow idea of American libertarianism, but also European libertarianism, Libertarian Socialism, etc.) will, by the very nature of their anti-authoritarian worldviews, always have a harder time fighting back against authoritarianism. If they rally behind their own strongman personality to combat the authoritarian strongman, then they've already lost and given in to exactly what they sought to defeat.
    Yes, not becoming what you are fighting against is a problem. Especially if your opponent's tactics are effective. You basically need a lot of strength in depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Perpetual Now View Post
    ^^A lot of people, maybe most, love a strongman, unfortunately. I don't think ideology holds that much importance for these people, so much as the thirst for a strongman autocrat to inspire them. So such shifts aren't too surprising. It's why some people so easily 180'ed from Bernie to Trump in 2016.
    American politics will increasingly resemble a LatAm country. A corrupt neoliberal kleptocracy punctuated by occasional center-right 'strongmen' promising (but failing) to deliver on reform.

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    I don't get the ban on transgender people in the military. The "it's ma'am" lady is someone who could be a valuable asset on the front lines. Imagine an enemy combatant yells "sir" at her, next thing you know this lady, in her blind rage, has charged in and cleared an entire village or cave of enemy combatants. Imagine entire platoons of "it's ma'am" soldiers. Our foreign wars will be won in no time.

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    Trump and his cabinet are such obnoxious morons for pressing Iranian sanctions that Europeans have created their own trade channels -- INSTEX bypasses the American controlled SWIFT and allows companies to make transactions with Iran.

    I just hope for a future where this is expanded to cover other countries under American sanctions like Cuba.

    https://www.dw.com/en/eu-mechanism-f...nal/a-49407662
    Last edited by xerxe; 06-30-2019 at 08:50 PM.

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    I know people love to hate on Trump these days, but stepping foot into North Korea for nuclear talks with Kim Jong Un is a good thing for a safer world:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-s...et-11561862697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I know people love to hate on Trump these days, but stepping foot into North Korea for nuclear talks with Kim Jong Un is a good thing for a safer world:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-s...et-11561862697
    Nobody cares. They wanted him to deliver on real quality of life increases and a border wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckrz View Post
    Nobody cares. They wanted him to deliver on real quality of life increases and a border wall.
    Fair enough, he hasn't delivered yet on his campaign promises. Will he after another 4 years if he gets re-elected? Doubtful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Fair enough, he hasn't delivered yet on his campaign promises. Will he after another 4 years if he gets re-elected? Doubtful.
    He can't. Doesn't matter who the president is if the state-financial apparatus doesn't like their domestic agenda.

    He has more latitude with forpol. At least until defense contractors puppet congresscritters to cry "reckless isolationism" whenever serious questions get raised about why exactly we're deployed in 150+ countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Trump and his cabinet are such obnoxious morons for pressing Iranian sanctions that Europeans have created their own trade channels -- INSTEX bypasses the American controlled SWIFT and allows companies to make transactions with Iran.

    I just hope for a future where this is expanded to cover other countries under American sanctions like Cuba.

    https://www.dw.com/en/eu-mechanism-f...nal/a-49407662
    I'm ready to see the American machine react to this.
    New Discord server for Socionics and everything else:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    I know people love to hate on Trump these days, but stepping foot into North Korea for nuclear talks with Kim Jong Un is a good thing for a safer world:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-s...et-11561862697

    For the same reason he opposed the Iran deal; it's because Obama liked it -- Obama was however an establishment tool and I don't feel too badly that his legacy is being diminished. Overall, it's not entirely a bad thing that American foreign policy gets a setback as a result of Trump's petty vindictiveness.

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    Between Black Lies Matter, Crackpot Commie Bernie and Nitwit Loons like Alexandria "Airhead" Ocasio and Rashida Tlaib, the Democratic Party turned into a Cesspool of Identity Politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Between Black Lies Matter, Crackpot Commie Bernie and Nitwit Loons like Alexandria "Airhead" Ocasio and Rashida Tlaib, the Democratic Party turned into a Cesspool of Identity Politics.
    Nah, Trump is the embodiment of White identity politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Nah, Trump is the embodiment of White identity politics.
    He's the embodiment of naive boomer civic sensibilities and little else. Same reason Joe Biden is popular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckrz View Post
    He's the embodiment of naive boomer civic sensibilities and little else. Same reason Joe Biden is popular.
    Much of which includes White identity politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxe View Post
    Nah, Trump is the embodiment of White identity politics.
    White nationalism had been on the decline for a while. Left wing identity politics kind of halted that decline and indirectly fed into the growth of identity politics on the right. The right used to be very out of touch when it came to memeing and using the internet to magnify and intensify their message, but I think they learned from watching the left do it better for a time, then changed their playbook accordingly. Trump is as much a product of the left as he is of the right.

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