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Thread: USA politics following Trump's election

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    Default USA politics following Trump's election

    It hasn't even been a week and a half since Trump was elected, and already so much seems to be happening or on the verge of happening.

    For example, apparently some people think this kind of thing is alright:

    http://time.com/4574732/donald-trump...slim-registry/

    Are people really okay w referring to Japanese internment camps as a precedent for government action now?
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    Apparently some people think this kind of thing is alright:

    http://time.com/4574732/donald-trump...slim-registry/

    Are people really okay w referring to Japanese internment camps as a precedent for government action now? :,(
    After Bannon's appointment, it seems like it's all up for grabs.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    After Bannon's appointment, it seems like it's all up for grabs.
    Yeah....

    I feel a pit in my stomach when I think about what is happening in our country. How can people go along w this? I genuinely do not understand although I am trying.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    Yeah....

    I feel a pit in my stomach when I think about what is happening in our country. How can people go along w this? I genuinely do not understand although I am trying.
    Because they are either misinformed, underinformed, complacent, or racist misogynist bigots.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    Yeah....

    I feel a pit in my stomach when I think about what is happening in our country. How can people go along w this? I genuinely do not understand although I am trying.
    People go along with this because they're afraid. They're afraid of terrorism and the nation losing its original identity. Fear is the driving force of a lot of things that appear to be hatred IMO.
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    I guess...I guess I understand in a way that they're afraid. What I don't understand is how they can be willing to assuage their fear by doing something that seems, to me at least, to be a step in such a potentially dark direction. I guess as someone w an interest in the Holocaust, and having read a lot about ******'s rise to power, I am seeing parallels (as many people are) and feeling very worried about them.

    Hmm... using Japanese internment camps as a precedent to excuse possibly highly unethical actions just caught me off-guard. I'm surprised the guy is so open about it, even. It's like he really doesn't see what's wrong w it.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    Yeah....

    I feel a pit in my stomach when I think about what is happening in our country. How can people go along w this? I genuinely do not understand although I am trying.
    A lot of people are hurting and extremely dissatisfied with the state of the country. The one who promises massive systemic changes is the one who will get elected. Mainstream politics this year also ignored the economy and pretended it was fine when it wasn't. They straight up lied to the American people. Obama said it himself "The economy is great! And if anyone tells you otherwise, they're just peddling nonsense." Of course, it was nonsense that Obama was peddling. Unemployment and underemployment are through the roof. People are seeing their livelihood destroyed and little opportunity for their children to succeed. Basement dwelling is now normalized. Ordinary politicians like Clinton knew the problem existed but refused to address it. They paid dearly for their bad decisions. Who knows what Trump will do? As unpredictable add this election cycle was for many, his presidency will probably go the same way.

    Ultimately, I believe you can thank the Democratic party for Trump. Many people were interested in voting for Bernie, but the DNC rigged the process by generating a media blackout and not covering Sanders. Also, many people think that voter rolls were purged of Sanders supporters to facilitate a Clinton victory in the primary. Lots of dirty dealing. And it bit them in the ass. Democrats chose the weaker candidate. Now they'll spend the next four years thinking about their decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    They're afraid of terrorism and the nation losing its original identity. Fear is the driving force of a lot of things that appear to be hatred IMO.
    Legitimate fears left unanswered develop into hatred.
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    I am really fucking scared.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    I'm actually a little curious and excited about what the future holds. I would never have voted for him though. Curious none-the-less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    I guess...I guess I understand in a way that they're afraid. What I don't understand is how they can be willing to assuage their fear by doing something that seems, to me at least, to be a step in such a potentially dark direction. I guess as someone w an interest in the Holocaust, and having read a lot about ******'s rise to power, I am seeing parallels (as many people are) and feeling very worried about them.

    Hmm... using Japanese internment camps as a precedent to excuse possibly highly unethical actions just caught me off-guard. I'm surprised the guy is so open about it, even. It's like he really doesn't see what's wrong w it.
    Humanity's heart is often filled with brutality and stupidity, they blame others without taking responsibility. It's natural to blame because we've all at one time or another been harmed by others.

    This election is about blaming whatever group is convenient for our collective problems while taking no action or responsibility to change ourselves. The Bernie or bust people blamed the DNC while they sat back and did nothing to stop Trump. The Republicans blamed Muslims, democrats, Obama, whomever for their policies which created many of the problems that they want others to take blame for.

    The democrats need to change too in this loss they are the only people apologizing for failing to win and taking even a modicum of responsibility. I envision the Democratic Party will change with a renewed focus on the working class and middle class, the Democrats failed to reach the people they needed to reach.

    It's ok to blame and often this blame is legitimate to a certain extent, but there is always a price for not taking responsibility for yourself and your role in society. If the young adults refuse to accept responsibility for their futures, then there will be consequences, if the Republicans refuse to accept responsibilities for their failed policies, then there will be consequences, if the Democrats do not change into a party that can appeal to the working class and middle class, then there will be consequences.

    I fear for disenfranchised minorities because their oppression will only grow more onerous. I fear for the disenfranchised whites because there is no greatness at the end of this journey, just a cliff. People can blame all they want, but if people don't take responsibility for their own actions and non-actions, there will be consequences.

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    It's ok to blame people when it's actually their fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Humanity's heart is often filled with brutality and stupidity, they blame others without taking responsibility. It's natural to blame because we've all at one time or another been harmed by others.

    It's ok to blame and often this blame is legitimate to a certain extent, but there is always a price for not taking responsibility for yourself and your role in society.
    Your post can be meaningfully condensed to these two sections.

    The change of power (peaceful or violent) is not related to taking personality responsibility or your role in society. Societies go through drastic political and social reform because of converging social forces. It's partially true that we can play our own role in these social forces, but the way humans interact suggests that really, we will be swept along with a tide.

    The social and political forces at play in representative democracies are at play regardless of how personally responsible you are. The global (not just US) social and political forces since "The End of History" acted and manoeuvred in such a way that we as citizens can't really take responsibility. Representative democracy is not a bad system, but it explicitly draws political responsibility away from the body politic, and towards a political class. What the hell are people supposed to take responsibility for? More to the realistic question: how can Americans "take responsibility" for their country's political outlook?

    It's ok to ruminate on how or if the democratic or republican parties will change. It's ok to make platitudes about humanity and blame. It's not ok to suggest that the broader social forces in a representative democracy are the responsibility of the citizens; it's the responsibility of the administration of the institutions and the political and media class. It's not ok to talk about how it's immature to play the blame game and then lay blame on a huge part of a country, within nearly the same breath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    I'm actually a little curious and excited about what the future holds. I would never have voted for him though. Curious none-the-less.
    Sees that you're from Canada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by totalize View Post
    It's ok to blame people when it's actually their fault.
    Blame is a emotional expression of frustration and it can be legitimate and useful in venting the many pains one might feel. But the solving of problems require people to take responsibility for the change you wish to see.

    As an emotional expression, it is legitimate if it's sincere. Sometimes people can make mistakes blaming people that are innocent.

    It doesn't excuse apathy, violence, sabotage, it doesn't justify trying to setup internment camps for Muslims or forcing them to register in "special registration" programs, it is not a excuse to stay the same and not change to face the changing world, it does not excuse snobbish elitism, it does not excuse to ignore the white working class, it is not a excuse to ignore racial profiling.

    The harder the challenge, the easier it is to blame and the harder it is to change, organize and solve problems, it's easy to give up, it's easy to stick your head in the sand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by totalize View Post
    Your post can be meaningfully condensed to these two sections.

    The change of power (peaceful or violent) is not related to taking personality responsibility or your role in society. Societies go through drastic political and social reform because of converging social forces. It's partially true that we can play our own role in these social forces, but the way humans interact suggests that really, we will be swept along with a tide.

    The social and political forces at play in representative democracies are at play regardless of how personally responsible you are. The global (not just US) social and political forces since "The End of History" acted and manoeuvred in such a way that we as citizens can't really take responsibility. Representative democracy is not a bad system, but it explicitly draws political responsibility away from the body politic, and towards a political class. What the hell are people supposed to take responsibility for? More to the realistic question: how can Americans "take responsibility" for their country's political outlook?

    It's ok to ruminate on how or if the democratic or republican parties will change. It's ok to make platitudes about humanity and blame. It's not ok to suggest that the broader social forces in a representative democracy are the responsibility of the citizens; it's the responsibility of the administration of the institutions and the political and media class. It's not ok to talk about how it's immature to play the blame game and then lay blame on a huge part of a country, within nearly the same breath.
    I blame everyone(including myself) for the current election results, it is a collective failure. I am not playing the blame game, because we all are imperfect and we all have areas where we take the wrong course of actions or have the wrong beliefs. All I can do is change, and ask others to change, I ask each individual think about how they can change the world for the better and what they can do to influence themselves and the people around them. This is something limited but it can have profound effect if enough people choose this path.

    As far as what responsibilities people and groups can take accountability for. People can take responsibility for their bad policies and oppression of others. People can take responsibility for their apathy and indifference to the suffering of others. People can take responsibility for ignoring poor whites. For each legitimate blame there is a legitimate change that each individual and group of individual can make, this is why blame is useful, sometimes it informs others and sometimes it informs oneself.

    I have not called anyone immature nor am I asking them not to blame others, in fact they should blame others for what they perceive, but they should listen to the response as well. They should also try to see if there is some legitimacy to the blame other point towards them.

    America is also a wonderful place full of decent people, and if even a small portion of the population worked towards better solutions, many problems can be solved. It was not by a huge margin that Trump won the election, and it's rarely by a huge margin that major events are influenced.

    There is also no path for individuals except taking personal responsibility for their own self-interest, and advancing those interests without gross evil. Individuals can organize and collaborate but at the end of the day, it is still individual motivations that gels people together in a free society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    It hasn't even been a week and a half since Trump was elected, and already so much seems to be happening or on the verge of happening.

    For example, apparently some people think this kind of thing is alright:

    http://time.com/4574732/donald-trump...slim-registry/

    Are people really okay w referring to Japanese internment camps as a precedent for government action now?
    All they seemed to be saying was they would consider any action that protects the country. They haven't said Japanese internment camps are a good idea or that they are going to do it, but it does seem to be a way to suggest that a registry is appropriate, just as people thought the internment camps were appropriate in the past.

    And I have no strong opinion on the matter and feel like context is very important, so please don't freak out because I'm not freaking out. It's all seems like empty words to me right now. If something serious happens later on, like some major terrorist attacks, then shits going to get real and this would be something to worry about, but right now there's not much there, really. Media is blowing this out of proportion.

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    My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: 1) Backlash to political correctness/alt right. These people are young and do not care about policy, jobs or issues in general they just hate the left and academia. 2) Old people who live in hick towns who want blue-collar jobs to pay for their mortgage like they used to. (These jobs are either gone forever to automation or to China) Newsflash your jobs are not coming back. They ruined the planet anyway with all that coal. 3) Lifelong republicans who supported Trump only because he was Republican. This includes people who vote single-issue like pro-life. 4) People who hate Clinton and would vote for anyone else, at all.

    3 & 4 have some overlap.

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    what will happen to the war?

    i'm seriously thinking i will just consistently vote green party from now on. if that party ever gets anywhere of course it will probably mean that it's been encapsulated into the rest of this shit.
    Last edited by inumbra; 11-21-2016 at 12:17 AM.

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    One thing that is scary is what will happen to you (reporters, anyone) who publically criticizes Trump? As president with executive powers, will he make your life difficult? Bully you? You are with him or against him and if you are against him, then what? What could stop him frommaking trouble for you in your organization? Board? Business?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    One thing that is scary is what will happen to you (reporters, anyone) who publically criticizes Trump? As president with executive powers, will he make your life difficult? Bully you? You are with him or against him and if you are against him, then what? What could stop him frommaking trouble for you in your organization? Board? Business?
    not sure it really matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    One thing that is scary is what will happen to you (reporters, anyone) who publically criticizes Trump? As president with executive powers, will he make your life difficult? Bully you? You are with him or against him and if you are against him, then what? What could stop him frommaking trouble for you in your organization? Board? Business?
    He is already bullying them and accusing them of lying (when they are not).

    Untitledddfdfdfdd.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post

    Going to keep this on file and watch when I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    He is already bullying them and accusing them of lying (when they are not).

    Untitledddfdfdfdd.png
    Right now its a tweet, in January, then what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Right now its a tweet, in January, then what?
    That's exactly the problem - nobody knows.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    One thing that is scary is what will happen to you (reporters, anyone) who publically criticizes Trump? As president with executive powers, will he make your life difficult? Bully you? You are with him or against him and if you are against him, then what? What could stop him frommaking trouble for you in your organization? Board? Business?
    New college professor 'watchlist' aims to expose professors who 'advance leftist propaganda'

    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    ^ About time.
    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: 1) Backlash to political correctness/alt right. These people are young and do not care about policy, jobs or issues in general they just hate the left and academia.
    So you're an acaemic now, are you? That's amusing.
    2) Old people who live in hick towns who want blue-collar jobs to pay for their mortgage like they used to. (These jobs are either gone forever to automation or to China) Newsflash your jobs are not coming back. They ruined the planet anyway with all that coal.
    Nice cliche. This is all you could come up with?
    3) Lifelong republicans who supported Trump only because he was Republican. This includes people who vote single-issue like pro-life.
    Well that was profound.
    4) People who hate Clinton and would vote for anyone else, at all.
    And why would that be?

    3 & 4 have some overlap.
    Nope, your theory is wrong. Didn't list my reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    When it says 'fact checking' you know that the smart people have looked over it for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I am really fucking scared.
    What else is new?
    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    Yeah....

    I feel a pit in my stomach when I think about what is happening in our country. How can people go along w this? I genuinely do not understand although I am trying.
    At least you got the end part right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratrevisits View Post
    ^ About time.

    Nope, your theory is wrong. Didn't list my reasons.

    When it says 'fact checking' you know that the smart people have looked over it for you.

    What else is new?

    At least you got the end part right.
    I never said I was an academic....don't put words in my mouth. It remains a FACT that older white working class voters feel (and are) disconnected from urban middle class life and academia as well. They don't understand it and they look down upon how heavily leftist it is, especially the arts & humanities - but even hard sciences, econ and business generally aren't even majority republican. The jobs thing I mentioned is not a cliche, it is true; old jobs are not going to magically reappear nor do I want them to. I support creation of new, sustainable jobs but most of those are not going to be in Hicksville, West Virginia :-) Last point: single issue voting is extremely common so of course I had to include it in my list.

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    Let's just all pick a side and argue with each other based on which side we align with. Because fighting always makes things better.

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    Awww.... mama Hillary won't be there to take care of lil' woofie now that daddy is in charge. : (
    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    I never said I was an academic....don't put words in my mouth. It remains a FACT that older white working class voters feel (and are) disconnected from urban middle class life and academia as well.
    U.S. culture is one of the few cultures in history where being older is equated with being less wise. Probably because the culture is idolatrous, individualistic, and supremacist. Repeatedly we see this desperate attempt to individualize and climb the social ladder by undercutting those in power. Here the target is older people, and whites ... but it's often parents, police, "the man", & others.

    Clinton actually underperformed with college students while Trump overperformed with college students. Infact, Trump overperformed across all demographics. Clinton did terrible with whites. This was not some backwater movement made up of hics, like you are pretending. I don't accept your scapegoating of rural people, anyway. Your 'urban culture' is trash and resembles the fall of Rome, I will not tolerate trash attacking healthy people. Without them you would not survive, you are a blight on the world. Be thankful.
    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    They don't understand it and they look down upon how heavily leftist it is, especially the arts & humanities - but even hard sciences, econ and business generally aren't even majority republican.
    Ever since the government started subsidizing student loans we've seen a massive rise in the price of college, and a rise in people pursuing worthless degrees and failing out of college. It's now a place jackoffs go for 4 year vacations. Without government lending the little bubble college students are living in would not exist. When they get out there is no job waiting for them, half of them learn their degree is worthless, stuck with debt and no way to pay it off... and half of them fail to graduate. 1 in 4 people who enter college get their degree and then a job. It's a tremendous waste of time and resources, it needs a serious overhaul... But we shouldn't listen to these people, they're largely people that can't take care of themselves. I have much more respect for people who work.
    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    The jobs thing I mentioned is not a cliche, it is true; old jobs are not going to magically reappear nor do I want them to. I support creation of new, sustainable jobs but most of those are not going to be in Hicksville, West Virginia :-) Last point: single issue voting is extremely common so of course I had to include it in my list.
    I'm supposed to take this seriously? You sound like a fucking 3rd grader. "I support the creation of new, sustainable jobs". You think you're fooling me with this polished turd of a sentence? Try actually saying something. Yeah, we don't believe in magic.. good job.
    Judging the qualify of your post it's clear you have little / nothing to say on economics. I thought you were supposed to be educated? Like your fellow educated, urban millenial voters?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratrevisits View Post
    Awww.... mama Hillary won't be there to take care of lil' woofie now that daddy is in charge. : (


    U.S. culture is one of the few cultures in history where being older is equated with being less wise. Probably because the culture is idolatrous, individualistic, and supremacist. Repeatedly we see this desperate attempt to individualize and climb the social ladder by undercutting those in power. Here the target is older people, and whites ... but it's often parents, police, "the man", & others.

    Clinton actually underperformed with college students while Trump overperformed with college students. Infact, Trump overperformed across all demographics. Clinton did terrible with whites. This was not some backwater movement made up of hics, like you are pretending. I don't accept your scapegoating of rural people, anyway. Your 'urban culture' is trash and resembles the fall of Rome, I will not tolerate trash attacking healthy people. Without them you would not survive, you are a blight on the world. Be thankful.


    Ever since the government started subsidizing student loans we've seen a massive rise in the price of college, and a rise in people pursuing worthless degrees and failing out of college. It's now a place jackoffs go for 4 year vacations. Without government lending the little bubble college students are living in would not exist. When they get out there is no job waiting for them, half of them learn their degree is worthless, stuck with debt and no way to pay it off... and half of them fail to graduate. 1 in 4 people who enter college get their degree and then a job. It's a tremendous waste of time and resources, it needs a serious overhaul... But we shouldn't listen to these people, they're largely people that can't take care of themselves. I have much more respect for people who work.

    I'm supposed to take this seriously? You sound like a fucking 3rd grader. "I support the creation of new, sustainable jobs". You think you're fooling me with this polished turd of a sentence? Try actually saying something. Yeah, we don't believe in magic.. good job.
    Judging the qualify of your post it's clear you have little / nothing to say on economics. I thought you were supposed to be educated? Like your fellow educated, urban millenial voters?...
    You are taking what I say and separating it all out but it's supposed to be taken holistically. I KNOW that trump over performed with millennials and younger people; I did not include young people in the group of "older working class white voters". Those are a separate demographic. Young people fall into the groups of a) life-long republicans, b) single issue voters (many pro-life millennials), c) alt-right pieces of shit, d) people who hate hillary so much they dgaf anymore. There are also young people who are white and working class who are not older and who voted for trump for many of the same reasons the older working class did. And sorry, I don't feel like using this SOCIONICS FORUM to talk about economics and in depth political theory. I am simply stating my views in an accessible manner. What do you have to say about economics, genius? As for Trump overperfomlng w college students: you said it already. College doesn't mean much anymore and there are many uneducated college students who are working class or come from working class families, mostly from rural areas. There are also educated, rich republican college students who voted for Trump. So yes duh there is no one demographic.

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    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    I'm giving Trump a chance to see if he could do some good just like I would of given Clinton a chance as well if she had won. We'll see when he's sworn in on what kind of president he's going to become. Trump is a huge gamble as president, he could turn out to be terrible, mediocre or good. Clinton was the safe choice, she probably would of been similar to Obama with some differences. However, the American public wanted change instead of keeping the status quo so let's see what happens once he's sworn in as president in about a month.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    Trump's Mafia approach to government has begun:

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...oach-governing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Trump's Mafia approach to government has begun:

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...oach-governing
    Well, if it's on his own turf he can be certain about security and where the guard's loyalties likely lie. A certain Russian Ambassador probably would have most certainly benefited from going to an art exhibit held in a more... Putin friendly location. Harder for some random Islamic fuck in a nice suit to just walk up and say he's cool and get in to position to go full Jihadi, just sayin'...

    Also I'm with you @Raver, he's a total shot in the dark. Though I would say I'd rather take said shot than *glow* in the dark as the result of Hydrogen Hillary's likely foreign policy. Dumb bitch'd kick the bear in the balls with bladed steel toed boots at the drop of a hat triggering the nuclear apocalypse. NOPE! NO WAY! [Vehemently Votes Trump on that matter alone ].

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    There's a worrying trend this election of illegal immigrants casting their votes for Donald Trump.

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    Best case scenario: Trump actually makes America great again by using the US's superior miltary and economic strength to bully and exploit other countries to further boost our own wealth and power. Worst Case scenario: Trump is Negan from the Walking Dead and makes America his bitch. Actually thinking about it I could see how Trump could benefit the US. America is in a position that we could basically shit on anyone we wanted without any body else being able to do a damn thing about it. Why not take advantage of that instead of playing the pussy game like we have been? Obviously that would suck for everyone outside the US but who gives a shit. That said there are other things I dislike about Trump, climate change denying for one which demonstrates his idiotcy and also the likelyhood that he will have absolutely no idea how to actually run things and will only put us further in the hole.
    Last edited by Muddy; 01-06-2017 at 02:39 AM.

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    Here is an interesting compilation of Trump's most used Twitter insults and attacks. All neatly organized in lists about a multitude of topics and people. It's almost pathologic.

    "Loser" is at number one

    It says a lot about him and the persons who are on his side, not the actual people he targets You can actually use all of these insults to hit them at their most sensitive points as I will energetically demonstrate!

    Trump and people who are in favor of him - this is for you: *nasal voice* You are losers who are dumb, terrible, goofy, and stupid. Lightweights! Overrated clowns! You are weak and dopey, and as dishonest as can be. You incompetent and boring fools. Pathetic haters and moronic racists. You are disgusting. You don't have any talent. You all get bad ratings. GET OUT YOU LOW-LIFE PEASANTS!!!



    (The bad ratings one is my favourite :'D)

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