05-08-2020, 05:41 PM
I guess I am not sure I would say this is genetic, although there is something I think to the fear response thing. People's backgrounds can actually deeply affect what their fear response is. For instance, highly stressful childhoods in which someone was in danger from an early age can affect the brain for life and create a much more fearful adult who is less trusting of new people and has a lower stress tolerance. Growing up in a place in which there are a lot of different people from a lot of different places can condition one to be more accepting of differences. I think there are probably genetic factors, but my guess is that experiences trump that for most people.
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I agree with you, but I don't know how we can get money out of politics unless enough people care enough. It's down to the people to somehow do something. This is why I think a united working class is important because basically a revolution of some sort is needed, hopefully non-violent. America needs a class revolution, IMO. Otherwise I don't see how we can get the money out of politics unless it starts impacting, say, the upper middle class more and more. They should be "joining with" the rest of us, but as long as they are comfortable enough, they won't.
I think a lot of people know we've ceded control of the world to horrible industries that kill us and the planet... but knowing isn't enough. Knowing is apparently cheap.
ETA: Bah, and even with the upper middle class it's this annoying partisan thing. Upper middle class democrats may be annoyed with how high their taxes are while the major corporations and super rich manage to avoid paying taxes. But for some reason upper middle-class Republicans seem to think the problem is the Democrats and their social programs (the source of the higher taxes)? Ugh. It all really sucks. All of this is beside the point because the problem is larger than their taxes, and I guess if they don't feel that way, I feel like they're just really comfortable. (Ahem, my perspective is from someone not in the upper middle class obviously, so it comes with my own class bias.)
Last edited by inumbra; 05-08-2020 at 05:55 PM.
05-09-2020, 04:38 AM
I can simplify it for you. r/K selection theory. Read up on it. It's actually how I overcame my "hatred" for my political opponents. I am, and they are as well, "victims" of their circumstances. I was born into and grew up in scarcity, a place where each purchase, each expenditure of money, mattered. 20 bucks to me and my family was and still is a significant expenditure. Cloud people think that's an absurdity reserved for those who "fail" at life, r-selected rabbits that they are they fully buy into that last part. That those like me are "failures" who deserve to die as it were.
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I know I sound like I hate them, but I don't, not anymore. Were I born into a family with six figures in their bank account without even trying and within one of the "super" ZIP codes that encompass cities like New York or L.A. I'd almost certainly not be all that religious and view those country bumpkins in "flyover" country as the "barbarians" our current ruling class views and treats them as. But for the grace of God I myself may have become yet another stereotypical ILI "Death Cultist" as I understand it.
I think I've said it before here but I'll say it again. I can turn a Trump supporter into a hater and vice-versa. All I need is their initial position. If they hate him I can turn the r-selected hater into a lover by kicking them into the outlands with but a knife and flint to their name. Should they survive somehow and successfully return to civilization despite not having an ounce of survivalist knowledge, they'll be a rock-ribbed conservative who thinks Trump is a pussy in regards to what he/she now sees as what "needs" to be done.
Likewise, take a hardcore "nationalist/conservative" of any type and both move them into a very nice/peaceful neighborhood and inform them that every month they'll get a million bucks for doing nothing but living (and follow up on that of course). They'll be an atheistic death-cult feminist dogma espousing liberal before the second year is out at most!
Only applies for those who are average of course. Ideologues/ types like me won't fall for it as we're set in our ways. Sadly (or thankfully, depending on your viewpoint), the likes of me are quite rare. The grand majority of humans are oh so very, very vulnerable to such easy manipulation. I mean fuck, LBJ had a thing or two to say about "blacks" and how he'd have em' voting Democrat for the next hundred years. He used the racial slur to refer to them, but to point that out now would probably get you labeled a bigot...
Last edited by End; 05-09-2020 at 04:56 AM.
05-09-2020, 06:09 PM
Politics are cancer.
We are all going to die in fire very soon and nothing will be done about it.
There is no safe distance to look into the politics shitpit without getting polluted by it. You will change. You will become worse for it. You will accrue regrets for it, you hate yourself, and you will drive yourself into fear and helplessness. The minute you think you are shrewd enough to avoid getting lied to, you are tricked.
I disavow informing or opining anything on politics again. I'm done. Hold me to this promise. I wish I'd never come near and I never want to go back.
Let it all burn down one way or another, but let my voice have as little sway on it as possible, even when it takes me with it. Damn this whole thing. I hate it.
05-10-2020, 05:54 AM
A good stance to take I'd say. After all, like I've heavily implied, no logical "argument" will sway anyone in regards to their politics/morality (I can argue how the two are directly correlated). Only within a "teaching moment" will mere words (or hell, a direct experience) have any effect. Those occur by pretty much divine fiat. Like writing the next biggest hit novel, if anyone knew the universal formula in regards to creating them they'd be doing just that 24/7.
Originally Posted by Grendel
Just don't come to hate your "opponents" as it were. I know I seem to hate my "enemies" but in truth I pity them. Death Cultists are basically begging someone to actually try and stop them, that someone will finally judge them as being as evil as they know they are deep down and smite them with the consequences they know they rightfully deserve. The fact that they not only aren't receiving righteous judgement but are successfully persecuting the righteous at this current moment in time ironically drives them deeper into despair.
05-11-2020, 05:31 AM
05-11-2020, 06:29 PM
I can't help but comment on this. You called "cloud people" those living on the coasts, as though everyone in coastal states is wealthy and as though there are not a ton of people on the political left (myself included) who come from backgrounds of scarcity. This dichotomy about the cloud people vs. the dirt people is nonsense to me if you're going to say some states are "cloud states" while others are "dirt states" as though things are uniform for everyone in a state; and if you're going to say that everyone on the left is a "cloud person" implying affluence. These things simply are not true. Furthermore the party that most blames people for their own poverty is the Republican party. That's why they do not support things life welfare, universal healthcare, prison reform, funding schools in poor neighborhoods, debt relief from college loans, etc. They don't view it as circumstances you come from. They view it as your fault. And during the current COVID crisis they have no mercy for essential workers, in say meat packing plants. They want to force them to work and risk themselves and deny them unemployment if they quit afraid they will become infected. They blame those people for their plight, they say it's how they live and their personal choices, while ignoring the hazardous working conditions that they will do nothing to change, while ignoring a long history of systemic injustice, while refusing to get the US to the testing capacity it needs to have a chance of controlling the virus. I can hear that the Democrats are run by corporate money too (they are), but what I can't accept is that they are worse than the Republicans when they are the ones who provide any government assistance at all. Ever had to use food stamps? That was the Democrats. Ever needed healthcare? Obama did try to get us a national healthcare system, flawed as it is. Ever needed to be on welfare? The Democrats support programs like that. Republicans want to leave you on your own. If you fall through the cracks, if you die, they won't pretend to care and they will offer no aid.
Originally Posted by End
Here's some examples of our lovely Republican leadership defending rich corporations from the workers they find it acceptable to kill, blaming workers for getting sick in conditions they have to work in to sustain their wages, blaming communities of color for their communities being disproportionately affected rather than blaming systemic racism:
All of these are examples of Republicans either actively harming or condoning the harm of real life "dirt people." Dirt people because they treat them like dirt. (Adams is apparently an independent, but he's in bed with the rest of them, so the distinction means little to me.)
Last edited by inumbra; 05-11-2020 at 07:00 PM.
05-12-2020, 05:48 AM
I admit that I have perhaps been a bit vague in my terminology and perhaps still a bit too optimistic about how logic can affect another's morality and thus am entirely to blame for this misunderstanding @inumbra. Let's start from the beginning. r/K selection is a spectrum that defies rigid categorization. This is why you can have gays (a verifiably heavily r-selected category) that are otherwise conservative in their viewpoints and whatever the vice-versa is. Some "rabbits" would rather much like to fight the wolves (albeit in the smart way of luring them into an ambush/killzone) just as some wolves would rather like to pursue veganism (while perhaps making exceptions for the particularly dickish rabbits who forget just who the "apex predators" are). It's rare, but it happens.
Now, as to the affluence factor. It isn't actual so much as perceived affluence that actually matters here. Even the poor can see a lack of fathers sticking around to actually help raise the children (and themselves by the by) and that store shelves always seem to be oh so very well stocked no matter what the talking head on the speaky screen says in an attempt to scare them. Plus, thanks to things like welfare and food stamps, true and deep hunger to the degree that you'd be willing to kill a "friend" for a loaf of bread is truly an alien concept. Those are r-selection pressures.
Likewise, the "rich" can have very devoted fathers who never fail to make time for all their children and tell them day in and day out that they must suffer and save for things they wish to acquire which are all K-selection pressures. Free shit in any form is an r-selection pressure, stuff you gotta "earn" is a K-selection pressure. I need context but give me a selection of stimuli and I can tell you how it will likely effect the people exposed to it to a degree of accuracy that I'd bet money on it if you had some real world data as to how it played out "for real" as it were. I encourage you to actually read up on this subject. It is quite fascinating and explains quite a lot once you finally get the nuances to "click" as I have. For instance, why are all those hardcore antifa members trust fund babies more often than not? You'd think that rich kids from "old money" families would be the last people imaginable that'd be all about a group/ideology that'd target themselves first and worst and yet, there they are and boy aren't they the most fanatical amongst their piers!
That you cannot accept that the dems are worse than the repubs also speaks to a lingering attachment to the old "left-right" paradigm. Accept that they are both immoral in equal but different ways and that as of right now we don't really have any truly "moral" actors on the public stage. They all serve the lord of this world as the likes of me understand it. Fuck em' I say, yet also pity them. The servants of the lie beg for righteous judgement and retribution, and every day they go on successfully persecuting the righteous drives them even further into despair no matter what they may tell you. I pray you are not amongst their number...
Last edited by End; 05-12-2020 at 06:08 AM.
05-12-2020, 06:26 AM
I can get that specialization - which creates individuals that only work within a group of sufficient numbers because their tasks are socialized - is r-selected on the surface, but the specialization we have wouldn't be possible if not for our overgrown infant skull size.
Originally Posted by End
That, in turn, can only happen when you have a parent that invests in few offspring for a long time, as the giant skull takes decades to grow in, and you have a creature with a stupidly long and vulnerable infancy.
This, combined with the brain they have, is the reason humans are more prone to sickness, perversion, and drawn-out suffering than any other animal. Larvae that don't hunt from the minute they hatch would not be possible without k Selection, so that's the deep root of why our race is innately diseased. A proper larva bursts out of the caterpillar it was incubating in on day one ready to fend for itself, and flies freely goring its prey to death with its venomous egg-layer as an adult. THAT is a proper life cycle.
Don't mistake k Selection with the invincible roach. K selection is more like the pale bony accountant who dies if he stands in the sun too long, whose children get born with tay-sachs or schizophrenia. R-selection is rarely that drawn out and cruel with its punishments, it just makes sure the death is clean and quick when you don't make the cut. I'd rather be the roach any day.
05-12-2020, 01:55 PM
Ah, so you realize that we humans are inherently K-selected creatures. Kudos on noticing that without any prompts . I'd much rather be a "human" than a roach however. No matter how hard they are to kill, how "easy" their life is from our perspective, or whatever other "virtues" you imagine them to have over us fallen humans, the likes of them will never compose a symphony, write a great novel, paint a beautiful painting, construct a cathedral over the course of centuries, or ever hope to spread themselves amongst the stars (without us humans helping them do so that is). Eat, fuck, reproduce, repeat, that's the apex and sum total of r-selected existence.
Originally Posted by Grendel
Perhaps there is some solace in the eternal orgasm, maybe we'd all be happier as dumbass hedonistic fuck machines in some way, but as for me, I'd rather suffer greatly in my intellect and hopefully achieve some form of greatness and eternity as a potential result. I guess that's just my religious perspective kicking in though. Only nihilistic death cultists think all this suffering we're experiencing is pointless and that we aren't ultimately destined for a future far more beautiful and wonderful than we can currently imagine...
05-12-2020, 03:17 PM
If we're talking about "perceived affluence," this is rather silly to me. If some millionaire is busy feeling like they live in scarcity and then continually doing whatever they can to make sure other people live in ACTUAL scarcity, that is called something that has little to do with so-called r/k selection theory and everything to do with GREED and SELFISHNESS, or perhaps sociopathy. And in my opinion, that is evil. If you make a million dollars a year and keep to yourself and don't want to share, that's your right (I have little respect for this hypothetical you because I feel there's a broader social responsibility but anyway). If you make a million dollars a year and direct some of it to actually harming other people so they can't get out of poverty while finding every loophole imaginable to avoid taxes when people who earn far less have to pay taxes, that is EVIL. No one should have that "right."
Originally Posted by End
Also, there are 1001 things to do first before killing someone in the US for a loaf of bread. I would hope that most people would believe that killing another person is wrong, that lives are precious, priceless, sacred. That said, I do fear this future is coming because of the intense destruction of the ecosystems on Earth and the breakdown of food chains, in addition to climate change. I fear that very soon severe resource shortages are going to become a norm, and thanks to current US leadership and the ever growing wealth inequality in which the rich keep sucking everything up and more and more people are falling into poverty (it's been going on for decades and it's not just the Republicans to blame for it--conservative mindsets ARE to blame for it however), I fear that much of the US will fall pretty quickly and if that happens, I will definitely be in the group that falls. But yes, I think I would rather huddle together with my loved ones and die than murder other people for scraps when we're all going to die anyway soon, and I'd be willing to kill those people (the ones trying to murder others for scraps) to defend myself and my family, because they have become crazed monsters and psychos like them will not benefit the common good and will make it so any hope we have of picking up the pieces is squandered. This isn't r/k selection theory. This is being an animal. Humans have strong survival instincts just like every other animal. You can even see those instincts popping up in videos of people fighting over toilet paper in the early days of the pandemic. Is it because toilet paper fighters are r people or k people? Nope. Applying this theory in the way you are reads as silly nonsense to me. I've also noticed it being applied to this dumb alpha/beta male "philosophy" that used to be rather more prevalent on these boards--and it was inapplicable there because all of that was about masculine insecurity, gender norms, and being manipulated by jerks like pick-up artist "gurus."
I suggest reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/OCCAMs-Nightm.../dp/1304030180 It's about another human tendency, that to spin out convoluted theories ignoring all facts and reality to explain something that has a much simpler and far more obvious explanation.
Anyway, back to politics. The problem with the Democrats is they are infected by these neoliberal economic ideas, that in my view are very conservative ideas. The Democrats have a split in the party between corporate suck-ups (Biden is one) and progressives. It's not as simple as being able to group everyone into one group or the other. Obama is an example of someone who really was very well-meaning and had a lot of progressive ideas, but ended up serving corporate America far too much. It's corruption within the party and it impacts even the well-meaning. The entire Republican party is taken over by corporations on the other hand. They have been lost, and that's why their policies are the most evil. It's not a matter of "you're evil and you're evil, therefore you are both the same." Evil exists on a spectrum. I believe for the sake of our survival these corporate powers need to be fought and forced out of politics. They have not consumed the Democrats fully yet. The progressive movement is there, and it's the only one I see that talks about these issues plainly and often works its way into office without taking corporate money. It's not enough though. And if one just saddles their hopes on it, I don't think it's gonna be enough. I think the future is dark for the US, and so far the "evil" is winning, and I don't think we have a lot of time left.
Going on about r/k selection theory isn't going to help me survive. It's BS crap in the way you are applying it, and there are real problems. I mean, this theory is used to apply to SPECIES in their entirety not individuals within a species and it's an out-of-date idea. Humans are K-selected in the theory (that is ALL humans). Meanwhile, the point in which social cooperation in a species breaks down due to food scarcity is something that you can observe in just about every social animal. For instance, recently I saw the videos of monkeys in Thailand fighting each other for scraps because the tourists are gone and they don't have any food. What takes over is the desperate need to survive that is in all living things. So, their social structure breaks down and it's every monkey for him/herself way more so than it used to be. There's evidence this happened to Neanderthals at the end when extinction was imminent. They didn't have enough to eat and they started killing and eating each other. Humans have done this too. It's what happens when the world is ending around us and we're all going to die. Some of us go mad and start slaughtering the others. That's not r/k, it's unholy desperation. Though I mean it also applies to less extreme examples, like feral cat colonies. They live in cooperation as long as there is enough food, with relatively little fighting (aside from reproduction-based competition). As soon as the food isn't enough though, the colony breaks down, they become aggressive to one another, they start fighting. Even the strongest allies (e.g. those genetically related) start fighting each other. I mean, we don't need an elaborate spun into something else misapplied ecological theory to understand these things.
Ugh. And calling things dumb and stupid will not benefit either of us. This post is bad. I'll end with a TED Talk
(It makes sense to me...)
ETA: And I'm being too extremist in this, in that there is a whole world between people starving to death in a country and outbreaks of violence over resources. Most real life areas struck by famine are not characterized by human in-fighting for resources. Humans are by nature highly cooperative and they also become too weak to fight when starving. But what is true still is this selfishness permeating everywhere, in which people are starving on Earth and we won't do anything about it... This utter selfishness and apathy. This corruption. And maybe the people among us who start killing others to take their stuff are simply a tiny minority, people with deficient consciences and lack of empathy whose nature was always to prey on others, and many of them are sitting at the top of the world's nastiest corporations preying on us because that's what they do. But of course, it's still more complicated than that since it can be cultural... People reflect what they learned, what they were conditioned into, what they experienced.
And even with the monkeys, some are going on missions to raid places where food might be kept together. Because every monkey for him/herself is an expression of initial panic, and after, those who survive do so through cooperation. Which is why perhaps killing in self defense someone trying to murder me for what little I have may not really be the best idea, because some people will have gone temporarily mad and can go back to sanity. It's just if they are trying to kill me, then... I am not an enlightened person who can't easily be killed...
Last edited by inumbra; 05-12-2020 at 05:07 PM.
05-12-2020, 05:11 PM
05-12-2020, 08:11 PM
Yeah, and it's really in a way what we choose to be and what mindset we choose to have... If we believe we are inherently violent competitors then we will be more paranoid if stranded together in a survival situation and more likely to create the very thing we so fear. It doesn't have to be that way. It isn't even "natural" for it to be that way.
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
If much of society believes that there isn't enough and we all have to fight each other for it, then that is the world we will create. So in that sense, it's all about perceived scarcity (contrary to my ignoring the relevance of perceived scarcity in my previous post). Probably the most greedy corporations operate with the belief there isn't enough, so they must take, take, take and hoard it, and then that creates an actual situation of scarcity, and it perpetuates among those who suffer from that actual scarcity more of this mindset of scarcity, so they can recycle that back into collective thought/action, creating more actual scarcity.
And lol that's why there's toilet paper shortage. We always had enough of this oh so precious resource, but because much of US society concentrated its scarcity fears on toilet paper of all things, a shortage soon appeared. It was completely unnecessary.
The way the economy runs so as to create scarcity for far more people than it creates prosperity for, is completely unnecessary too.
ETA: An interview I found with Bregman: https://www.ips-journal.eu/interview...friendly-4269/
It's funny, it also talks about toilet paper. Anyway, it mentions how at one point even the Trump admin was considering UBI, and Bregman's feeling at the time. I remember feeling uplifted when that happened, like maybe this crisis would bring everyone together and they would start helping people. Then sometime later, the Republicans changed their tune. I don't know if their corporate masters swooped in and activated their choke chains or what. It is good UBI is now floating around more in thought though. I attribute it mainly to Andrew Yang (the discussion on it politically in the US).
I think I am not very much of an optimist and fear that optimists often get carried away with themselves, like the people who spin everything like it's going well when it's not. But I suppose a sort of vigilant optimism would correct this.
ETA 2 https://youtu.be/ydKcaIE6O1k
Wouldn't that be nice.
Last edited by inumbra; 05-13-2020 at 03:15 AM.
05-16-2020, 02:32 PM
Dummy Trump is pushing the right strategy to beat Dementia Joe the creepy molester by attacking Hussein Obama... dementia joe is barack hussein obama's puppet so Trump's strategy is to squash the head of the puppet master. Chop off the head and the body falls. This was biden's election to win but he was so Si-creative vegged out in his basement he has missed out on essential opportunities. This was a super Si-creative vegged out thing to say (whenever Biden is against the ropes he gets all defeatist and comes out with some 'look at me the self-deprecating pussy' statement):
“I wouldn’t vote for me if I believed Tara Reade.”
05-16-2020, 04:44 PM
Finally Dementia Joe posted this 16 hours ago...
I WAS SAYING THAT 2 MONTHS AGO
this demonstrates my complete ownership and dominance over the Wuhan Virus thread.
I strongly intended to vote against Trump but Dementia Joe's failure to act sooner in picking up on and grilling Trump for his incompetence makes Dementia Joe the creepy molester even more incompetent than Dummy Trump.
I would do a better job than either one of these boneheads ever could when it comes to leading the Country.
05-17-2020, 03:38 PM
Perhaps there will be a restoration of the Obama era.
"They have learned nothing and forgotten nothing." Perfectly valid for the democrats.
05-17-2020, 04:02 PM
You will know that the Democrats have learned something when there are public hangings.
Originally Posted by khcs
Germany once had a Nazi problem. With some help, they fixed that.
Italy once had a fascist problem. It seems that they were more forgiving and more forgetful, and it's back.
05-17-2020, 04:25 PM
We are still at the beginning of "The roaring 2020s".
Originally Posted by Adam Strange
The invasion is expected to accelerate and the unconstrained multiculturalism will lead to the gradual erosion of many historical societies.
05-17-2020, 04:37 PM
Calling something an "Invasion" makes it sound like you are against immigration. Do you agree?
Originally Posted by khcs
Which historical societies should we try to preserve, going forward?
05-18-2020, 04:16 AM
An article with a nice infographic showing the political leanings of various news organizations: https://medium.com/s/story/why-does-...s-9625b0dd28c6
05-18-2020, 05:59 AM
05-18-2020, 07:53 AM
China will be The New Enemy Number One in the 2020s.
Last edited by khcs; 05-18-2020 at 08:17 AM.
05-18-2020, 07:55 AM
05-18-2020, 08:00 AM
05-18-2020, 08:13 AM
05-18-2020, 09:28 AM
05-18-2020, 09:36 AM
The best advice for the roaring 2020s. Do not speak out or question!
05-18-2020, 11:10 AM
ESI. Enneagram Six, the Loyal Skeptic. Definite Eminem vibes.
Originally Posted by xerxe
05-18-2020, 12:01 PM
Last but not the least. Remember, the Internet has long memory.
05-19-2020, 06:23 AM
Sad but true really. I'll still speak out of turn and insult our godless (at best) masters. Because to just kowtow to them would be the ultimate display of cowardice and simpitude. I ain't either of those, and I pray that none who read this are either. After all, better to die defiantly spitting into the face of your oppressors than to die begging for your life like a little bitch as they extract the maximum amount of satisfaction from your pleas as they kill you nice and slow anyway.
Originally Posted by khcs
05-24-2020, 02:53 PM
05-26-2020, 03:06 PM
check it out check it out dementia joe the creepy molester completely sissified, pussified, bitchified in his mask...also tells charlemagne the bitch that "you ain't black" if you lean towards Trump. biden quickly SI-creative vegges out when the remark stirs media public backlash. Biden quickly sought to restore harmony with the black community by explaining himself as just being a wiseguy. Pussified punk Biden is no SLE-Ti, SeTi cognition does not back down from media backlash to remarks by trying to explain it as "I was just being a wiseguy." Biden is Se-posturing/role...In contrast to LSE-Si, SeTi cognition doubles down on said remark once put out there and caught fire of from media backlash, not takes their chips off the table like Si-creative vegged out Dementia Joe the creepy molester...
05-26-2020, 11:23 PM
Are you still pretending to hate and criticize Trump, k4?
It's super obvious you are a fan boy, which is fine I appreciated the way he has been so firm on CCP virus. I have to wonder, what do you think you stand to gain from pretending to opinionate negatively about him?
Throw people off your tracks, but just why?
You won't answer.
Some people say that the president hasn't seen his dick since 1988. Others say that he plays too much golf.
All we know is that we wish he'd play golf all the time, every day of the year.