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Thread: USA politics following Trump's election

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    What they really think of each other: https://twitter.com/DGComedy/status/1299171443905761280

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    My prediction as an outsider who is preoccupied with global geopolitics:

    1.Trump is going to let the riots continue without cracking down on them
    2. This will energize his voter-base as things gradually get worse
    3. Trump will crush Biden in the debates
    4. Trump is the president for the next 4 years

    at the end of the day it only matters if one is unaware that the US is a oligarchy and it does not really matter who the president is. The fate of all democracies is plutocracy and those ppl are in power 24/7 non stop.

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 08-31-2020 at 07:17 AM.
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  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    My prediction as an outsider who is preoccupied with global geopolitics:

    1.Trump is going to let the riots continue without cracking down on them
    2. This will energize his voter-base as things gradually get worse
    3. Trump will crush Biden in the debates
    4. Trump is the president for the next 4 years

    at the end of the day it only matters if one is unaware that the US is a oligarchy and it does not really matter who the president is. The fate of all democracies is plutocracy and those ppl are in power 24/7 non stop.

    Bullshit

    -Joe Biden
    Y'all better not vote for Trump cuz he'll put y'all back in chains

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    At this point the masks are (or have been) just a prop.

    When the cameras are on, masks are on.

    When the cameras are off, masks are off.
    Last edited by fireee; 09-03-2020 at 06:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    My prediction as an outsider who is preoccupied with global geopolitics:

    1.Trump is going to let the riots continue without cracking down on them
    2. This will energize his voter-base as things gradually get worse
    3. Trump will crush Biden in the debates
    4. Trump is the president for the next 4 years

    at the end of the day it only matters if one is unaware that the US is a oligarchy and it does not really matter who the president is. The fate of all democracies is plutocracy and those ppl are in power 24/7 non stop.

    It matters to me because Trump denies climate change while Biden has a very proactive plan towards it.

    Also. Fuck Trump

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    Intentional or coincidence, latest COD trailer... interesting. Whoever approved this is a marketing genius.



    they know what their player-base is.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 09-05-2020 at 12:04 PM.
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    The most interesting voter












    Sorry for the interference!

    Last edited by khcs; 09-06-2020 at 06:48 PM.
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    Yummy Hit. Gangs use children to commit murder. If this goes true to form that little kid will be murdered to keep him from talking.


    The shooting ambush of two LA sheriff's at Compton train station LINK

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    What is this bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    What is this bullshit.
    It appears to be a recent criminal case in Little Tijuana.

    Moral question. Should the teenager boy be killed?
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    I mean the pictures. That's a lot of right wing garbage. I don't know what you're referring to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    I mean the pictures. That's a lot of right wing garbage. I don't know what you're referring to.
    Here is the link for you. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nt-ambush.html
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    There's nothing in the article that states the age of the suspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    There's nothing in the article that states the age of the suspect.
    There is nothing in the pictures posted that determines the sex of the suspect.

    But overlaying one's prejudices onto the facts in order to support a made-up conclusion is always fun.*


    *Personally, I do this sometimes with VI, but I always try to include a disclaimer stating that "I'm usually wrong about my VI conclusions".

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    Since this is a political thing now and no one really knows who it was or why, it's very obviously an illegal immigrant. Probably a Mexican too because they are all murderers and rapist, according to Trump. We need a bigger wall!

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    This is a demoralizing criminal case. It is very likely that a high resolution cctv footage is available about the ambush attack. It is a question of time and the boy will be found.

    The slogan of "Defund the Police" has lost its meaning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    The slogan of "Defund the Police" has lost its meaning.
    How so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    How so?
    It was a nonsense from the beginning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    It was a nonsense from the beginning.
    It actually makes a ton of sense. Defund the police, use the money to invest in the community. Police are a bludgeon when some emergencies require a scalpel. In other words, other services will pick up the slack. Crime will remain down because people's needs are being met.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    It actually makes a ton of sense. Defund the police, use the money to invest in the community. Police are a bludgeon when some emergencies require a scalpel. In other words, other services will pick up the slack. Crime will remain down because people's needs are being met.
    Good luck with being an idiot in life.
    e_e gammas man.. one worse idiot after another. See Adam, more of your kind keep popping up like mushrooms, are you shedding spores?

    can't w8 to see this idyllic Gamma landscape, where there are no cops and you can't even pack heat for self defense. John Lemon's dumb song.. I can already hear it:



    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    It was a nonsense from the beginning.
    Its no use, Americans are not only indoctrinated from birth, they also can't into basic realistic reasoning.

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 09-14-2020 at 08:08 AM.
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    I don't hear "de-fund the police" as "no cops", but whatever the case may be, I am not a fan of slogans that supplant critical thinking.

    I do think @falk makes a good point in that part of the money being invested into law and order issues could be invested into things that are more constructive in alot of communities. For example school programs where kids are taught meditation seems to produce excellent results.

    "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting a different result" - Albert Einstein.

    I don't see why doubling down on law and order spending is the way to do go when the forceful method is clearly not bearing fruit. I mean, I agree that in the immediate situation police force is the right way to deal with violent protestors, but overall the whole "we need more law and order in our communities" is just ineffective.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    It matters to me because Trump denies climate change while Biden has a very proactive plan towards it.
    I agree that climate change is important, but I think we should be focusing our efforts towards preparing for aspects of it like rising temperatures, increased wildfires, and rising waters, too, and not just an energy transition (though that's important too if only for the fact fossil fuels are polluting and will run out).

    Also. Fuck Trump


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    We are born to die

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...s-1038206/amp/

    In a dark season of pestilence, COVID has reduced to tatters the illusion of American exceptionalism. At the height of the crisis, with more than 2,000 dying each day, Americans found themselves members of a failed state, ruled by a dysfunctional and incompetent government largely responsible for death rates that added a tragic coda to America’s claim to supremacy in the world.

    For the first time, the international community felt compelled to send disaster relief to Washington. For more than two centuries, reported the Irish Times, “the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger. But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the U.S. until now: pity.” As American doctors and nurses eagerly awaited emergency airlifts of basic supplies from China, the hinge of history opened to the Asian century.

    No empire long endures, even if few anticipate their demise. Every kingdom is born to die.
    It may not be too late to change the outcome, but to change it this problem must be addressed:

    Today, the base pay of those at the top is commonly 400 times that of their salaried staff, with many earning orders of magnitude more in stock options and perks. The elite one percent of Americans control $30 trillion of assets, while the bottom half have more debt than assets. The three richest Americans have more money than the poorest 160 million of their countrymen. Fully a fifth of American households have zero or negative net worth, a figure that rises to 37 percent for black families. The median wealth of black households is a tenth that of whites. The vast majority of Americans — white, black, and brown — are two paychecks removed from bankruptcy. Though living in a nation that celebrates itself as the wealthiest in history, most Americans live on a high wire, with no safety net to brace a fall.
    Oddly I still think Andrew Yang was the only candidate who offered us life. Sanders might have offered us life. Trump offers us death.
    Last edited by inumbra; 09-14-2020 at 03:02 PM.

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    "Defund the police" people thinking it means no cops, but then ignore the actual argument behind it. What's up with that? And why has literal interpretation (or mis-interpretation) become the norm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I agree that climate change is important, but I think we should be focusing our efforts towards preparing for aspects of it like rising temperatures, increased wildfires, and rising waters, too, and not just an energy transition (though that's important too if only for the fact fossil fuels are polluting and will run out).



    Its a step in the right direction as opposed to covering our eyes with our hands for another 4 years during a critical time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    "Defund the police" people thinking it means no cops, but then ignore the actual argument behind it. What's up with that? And why has literal interpretation (or mis-interpretation) become the norm?
    "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

    Imo its quite clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    "Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

    Imo its quite clear.
    is it? i think what it means is that by putting more funds into these things, more people's needs will be met, and fewer people will need to turn to crime, therefore less police are needed (which isn't to say no police are needed).

    anyway, maybe it should be per community. some communities don't have much issue with the police whereas in others some dysfunctional cycle has taken hold in which the police are hurting the community more than helping it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Good luck with being an idiot in life... you can't even pack heat for self defense.
    *yawn* An insult in place of an argument. Yes, you're clearly the smarter one here.

    Also, the second sentence isn't true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    is it? i think what it means is that by putting more funds into these things, more people's needs will be met, and fewer people will need to turn to crime, therefore less police are needed (which isn't to say no police are needed).

    anyway, maybe it should be per community. some communities don't have much issue with the police whereas in others some dysfunctional cycle has taken hold in which the police are hurting the community more than helping it.
    Yeah, but wtf are you going to do with existing criminals? e_e I mean.. de-funding the police means they have less money for everything including hiring personnel, means less cops, means lower quality cops. Not a good idea when its a job where you could potentially get shot an killed any day... now if they have no money for kevlar.. better look for some other job.
    So when shit hits the fan they may not have the manpower to responde or if they do, its incompetent manpower. IF then you lets say don't have a gun, have 0 training, because guns are banned there and you end up in a situation where you have to defend your life... you are probably dead and the cops will arrive even later than usual to pick up the body.. :/

    maybe consider training cops for 3 years at least be4 letting them out to do their jobs... in the US its 21 weeks.. wtf.

    Even then tho we also have those ACAB idiots who like to riot.. my LSI senses say its heresy..



    Quote Originally Posted by falk View Post
    *yawn* An insult in place of an argument. Yes, you're clearly the smarter one here.

    Also, the second sentence isn't true.
    :> I'm just a "dumb" LSI..
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    :> I'm just a "dumb" LSI..

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Yeah, but wtf are you going to do with existing criminals? e_e I mean.. de-funding the police means they have less money for everything including hiring personnel, means less cops, means lower quality cops. Not a good idea when its a job where you could potentially get shot an killed any day... now if they have no money for kevlar.. better look for some other job.
    So when shit hits the fan they may not have the manpower to responde or if they do, its incompetent manpower. IF then you lets say don't have a gun, have 0 training, because guns are banned there and you end up in a situation where you have to defend your life... you are probably dead and the cops will arrive even later than usual to pick up the body.. :/

    maybe consider training cops for 3 years at least be4 letting them out to do their jobs... in the US its 21 weeks.. wtf.
    i think the issue is that in some communities it doesn't matter how much money the police have... that's not the issue. they basically serve in the community to over-police for minor crimes and under-police for major ones. so you won't be protected from murder by the police. you will be likely to be pulled over by them for a tail-light going out (or for "driving while black") and then they may demand to search your car looking for something to get you on (and hopefully you don't have marijuana or something in your car). if you start objecting then you are resisting and they might arrest you for your behavior, or they might just shoot you and can tell the court they were scared you were going to shoot them when you reached for your ID or went to open the glove compartment or something. it's basically a no win for people in those communities. the police won't help them, but they do hurt them a lot.

    historically the police have been racist against people of color, especially black people. and even the war on drugs was simply designed to screw over black people and break up their communities. sadly these historic things don't simply end. the war on drugs never ended, and it still to this day serves the very purpose it was started for.

    so for a community in this boat, why would they want more funding to go to the useless/harmful police rather than to the community services they need that might actually decrease serious crime in their communities?

    the community i live in doesn't have this kind of dysfunctional relationship with the police, but the police still do racially profile and harass poc/youth/the poor more, so there is still need for some kind of change (though perhaps a defund model isn't necessary).

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i think the issue is that in some communities it doesn't matter how much money the police have... that's not the issue. they basically serve in the community to over-police for minor crimes and under-police for major ones. so you won't be protected from murder by the police. you will be likely to be pulled over by them for a tail-light going out (or for "driving while black") and then they may demand to search your car looking for something to get you on (and hopefully you don't have marijuana or something in your car). if you start objecting then you are resisting and they might arrest you for your behavior, or they might just shoot you and can tell the court they were scared you were going to shoot them when you reached for your ID or went to open the glove compartment or something. it's basically a no win for people in those communities. the police won't help them, but they do hurt them a lot.
    Considering most ppl there have guns e_e I'd be freaked out too if I were a cop, never know who I pull over might have cocaine in the car and shoot me. Lack of training also would make me unsure how to properly contain and respond to the situation. Personally over here I always fully cooperate with cops and follow every instruction tot he letter.. Its kinda dumb to resist.

    historically the police have been racist against people of color, especially black people. and even the war on drugs was simply designed to screw over black people and break up their communities. sadly these historic things don't simply end. the war on drugs never ended, and it still to this day serves the very purpose it was started for.
    See.. I doubt that will change tho. Would it be racist to have all black cops policing a black community? Idk.. expecting ppl to behave in a certain way is weird, because ppl have biases, some of that subconscious. No amount of protesting or social pressure will change that. Maybe I'm just not delta enough to imagine ppl would actually change for the better.

    so for a community in this boat, why would they want more funding to go to the useless/harmful police rather than to the community services they need that might actually decrease serious crime in their communities?
    I see your point. What other options do they have?

    the community i live in doesn't have this kind of dysfunctional relationship with the police, but the police still do racially profile and harass poc/youth/the poor more, so there is still need for some kind of change (though perhaps a defund model isn't necessary).
    Maybe 2-3 year police academy? Proper training? Stop buying tanks, invest in training?
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    https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.am...-a9655181.html

    https://newsone-com.cdn.ampproject.o...ion-reports%2F

    The cops that were shot in Compton were parked near the police station known for having an internal criminal gang of officers who regularly violate the rights of minorities

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Yeah, but wtf are you going to do with existing criminals? e_e I mean.. de-funding the police means they have less money for everything including hiring personnel, means less cops, means lower quality cops. Not a good idea when its a job where you could potentially get shot an killed any day... now if they have no money for kevlar.. better look for some other job.
    So when shit hits the fan they may not have the manpower to responde or if they do, its incompetent manpower. IF then you lets say don't have a gun, have 0 training, because guns are banned there and you end up in a situation where you have to defend your life... you are probably dead and the cops will arrive even later than usual to pick up the body.. :/

    maybe consider training cops for 3 years at least be4 letting them out to do their jobs... in the US its 21 weeks.. wtf.

    Even then tho we also have those ACAB idiots who like to riot.. my LSI senses say its heresy..





    :> I'm just a "dumb" LSI..
    I guess this is just how I would do things if I was in charge.

    1. For issues like large riots and other large scale problems with a small police force, ideally I'd want to involve community "minutemen" police that can be called upon should the need arise. These people could be like the national guard where they have periodic training and get paid a bit for it, but you're not hiring full-time people. And since these are community people, they shouldn't be vested in putting people behind bars, but de-escalation. Full time cops have a tendency to see the public as potential rule-breakers and prison/jail as a natural punishment. It might even be a better idea to have it be a mandatory thing for certain age groups, similar to how some country's force everyone to join the military for a time. The goal is to have all kinds of people in the police force and not just that domineering asshole type that thrives on the authority.

    2. Police shouldn't be full-time. What I mean is they are full-time employed, but only cops part-time. The other time they do other jobs and functions for local governments and communities. Making them full-time creates problems because they tend to see the worst in their communities and it can have an effect on how they view and interact with the public.

    3. We should find cheaper ways to enforce the law for minor things. We could have people that are trained and certified as a public servant to help de-escalate or fill in a for a cop when one isn't around in time; they could maybe get some perks or paid a little for it. We could enforce speed limits with electronics, make it mandatory to have a dash-cam for accidents, and have better tech for enforcing certain laws, such as noise ordnance that is effective. So if someone is breaking certain noise laws, there will be direct and immediate evidence and they will be fined or whatever the penalties will be. No need to call police every time people are being assholes to each other. Anything to help bring down the amount of more minor issues that police get, so they can focus on stopping the big crimes or helping the public with disasters and conflicts. Less giving you a ticket and more being an overall positive influence in the community.

    4. Eliminate police unions (or limit their power to protect police against convictions). They are only there to defend the police from criminal convictions. Police are government employees and as such there needs to be complete transparency about everything they do, otherwise there is no authority making sure the police are following the law too. And that's pretty important. That's like giving the executive branch of the US government no checks and balances. That's troublesome.

    5. States need to give employers incentives to hire released convicts. Some people may not like this, but if people use that against them they are more likely to turn back to crime. It's just something that needs to be done.

    6. I'm a fan of Andrew Yang's UBI because it would directly help convicts integrate into society. But I do understand why a lot of people are against this, so it's not super important to do. But convicts do need some help integrating into society. Maybe a short-term UBI for recently released convicts would be better. I don't know, but something.

    7. Police budgets need to be revised quarterly for their needs and voted on and scrutinized by the public. This is the only way that the public can make sure their police departments are going in the right direction with things. Some police departments might actually need tanks and military weapons and bigger SWAT teams, if they are dealing with gang wars or things of that nature. But when it's not needed, it shouldn't remain the focus of their budgets. And you should never have a situation where every year the police budget increases because the police are afraid that if they don't spend everything they get, they will get less money next year. That's definitely not how budgetary concerns should be motivated. Maybe something like giving police bonuses or incentives for reducing the budget will help this, but you don't want to demotivate them to increase a budget if it's needed. So there needs to be some kind of way to incentivize having a proper budget.

    I probably left out a lot and some of these most police departments might already do, but I think that would be a nice start.

  35. #875
    shotgunfingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    I guess this is just how I would do things if I was in charge.

    1. For issues like large riots and other large scale problems with a small police force, ideally I'd want to involve community "minutemen" police that can be called upon should the need arise. These people could be like the national guard where they have periodic training and get paid a bit for it, but you're not hiring full-time people. And since these are community people, they shouldn't be vested in putting people behind bars, but de-escalation. Full time cops have a tendency to see the public as potential rule-breakers and prison/jail as a natural punishment. It might even be a better idea to have it be a mandatory thing for certain age groups, similar to how some country's force everyone to join the military for a time. The goal is to have all kinds of people in the police force and not just that domineering asshole type that thrives on the authority.
    I like this idea, it not only solves a problem, but also brings the community together, which is important imo.

    2. Police shouldn't be full-time. What I mean is they are full-time employed, but only cops part-time. The other time they do other jobs and functions for local governments and communities. Making them full-time creates problems because they tend to see the worst in their communities and it can have an effect on how they view and interact with the public.
    Well this makes sense, yeah. You'd need to have sufficient people rotating in at all times to deal with emerging situations effectively tho. Organization is beside the point tho.

    3. We should find cheaper ways to enforce the law for minor things. We could have people that are trained and certified as a public servant to help de-escalate or fill in a for a cop when one isn't around in time; they could maybe get some perks or paid a little for it. We could enforce speed limits with electronics, make it mandatory to have a dash-cam for accidents, and have better tech for enforcing certain laws, such as noise ordnance that is effective. So if someone is breaking certain noise laws, there will be direct and immediate evidence and they will be fined or whatever the penalties will be. No need to call police every time people are being assholes to each other. Anything to help bring down the amount of more minor issues that police get, so they can focus on stopping the big crimes or helping the public with disasters and conflicts. Less giving you a ticket and more being an overall positive influence in the community.
    Ok, again makes sense. I'd get behind this.

    4. Eliminate police unions (or limit their power to protect police against convictions). They are only there to defend the police from criminal convictions. Police are government employees and as such there needs to be complete transparency about everything they do, otherwise there is no authority making sure the police are following the law too. And that's pretty important. That's like giving the executive branch of the US government no checks and balances. That's troublesome.
    Depending on the circumstances unionizing is beneficial for a workforce imo, so I would not get rid of them.

    5. States need to give employers incentives to hire released convicts. Some people may not like this, but if people use that against them they are more likely to turn back to crime. It's just something that needs to be done.
    Not as law enforcement tho.

    6. I'm a fan of Andrew Yang's UBI because it would directly help convicts integrate into society. But I do understand why a lot of people are against this, so it's not super important to do. But convicts do need some help integrating into society. Maybe a short-term UBI for recently released convicts would be better. I don't know, but something.
    You could have a system in place where they'd get food stamps and basic needs met for 6 months as well as every opportunity to get a job or the system to find a job for them within that timeframe. UBI has been tried here in Europe... it does not work in practice. You guys can always try I guess.

    7. Police budgets need to be revised quarterly for their needs and voted on and scrutinized by the public. This is the only way that the public can make sure their police departments are going in the right direction with things. Some police departments might actually need tanks and military weapons and bigger SWAT teams, if they are dealing with gang wars or things of that nature. But when it's not needed, it shouldn't remain the focus of their budgets. And you should never have a situation where every year the police budget increases because the police are afraid that if they don't spend everything they get, they will get less money next year. That's definitely not how budgetary concerns should be motivated. Maybe something like giving police bonuses or incentives for reducing the budget will help this, but you don't want to demotivate them to increase a budget if it's needed. So there needs to be some kind of way to incentivize having a proper budget.
    Ok, sounds fair.

    I probably left out a lot and some of these most police departments might already do, but I think that would be a nice start.
    I'd still start with mandatory 2 year police academy, strict evaluation, proper training.
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  36. #876
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    Honestly, I doubt that very much progressive legislation would have been passed even if Sanders had somehow won the primaries and then the election. The houses are still controlled by an older generation that's perfectly content with the status quo. They're the ones who helped achieve it, after all, and don't particularly have an incentive (or perhaps even the understanding) to fight someone else's battles. Progress happens one funeral at a time.

    Maybe I shouldn't speak too soon, but I think that change will be slow until younger generations take over management positions and the electorate. I give it until 2026-28, when the median millennial (b. around 1990) reaches their mid-to-late thirties, which is the age at which people enter senior management and also begin to take their voting privileges seriously.
    Last edited by xerxe; 09-16-2020 at 06:10 AM. Reason: was missing an adverb

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