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Thread: USA politics following Trump's election

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Here is an interesting compilation of Trump's most used Twitter insults and attacks. All neatly organized in lists about a multitude of topics and people. It's almost pathologic.

    "Loser" is at number one

    It says a lot about him and the persons who are on his side, not the actual people he targets You can actually use all of these insults to hit them at their most sensitive points as I will energetically demonstrate!

    Trump and people who are in favor of him - this is for you: *nasal voice* You are losers who are dumb, terrible, goofy, and stupid. Lightweights! Overrated clowns! You are weak and dopey, and as dishonest as can be. You incompetent and boring fools. Pathetic haters and moronic racists. You are disgusting. You don't have any talent. You all get bad ratings. GET OUT YOU LOW-LIFE PEASANTS!!!



    (The bad ratings one is my favourite :'D)
    These tweets are the voices in Trump's head.
    Trump seems to me to be a person who had to create a false personality in order to survive his childhood (his brother died an alcoholic). Eventually, the false personality took over and buried the person that Trump was. But I'd like to think that that person is fighting back, in the form of tweets addressed to the created Trump.

    Because, @Chae, as you said, every one of those tweets actually applies to Trump himself.
    Sad. Pathetic, to quote someone.

    I find it interesting that Trump first found political fame in doubting Obama's authenticity and birthright, as if that is the worst thing that he can imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    I think we can be sure various agencies concerned with public security already have registries that in practice can serve the purpose of a list of muslims, both in America and in Europe.

    Actually, I'm pretty sure even local police in many places can easily get a list of local people who have engaged in "suspicious activity" such as visiting Mecca, made phonecalls to the "wrong" people, bought jihadi literature, visited mosques, bought halal meat and what not. In a digital age, anyone who has authority to get data from commercial and gov't databases can hardly help collecting data that essentially constitute registries like that, even though their databases are not formally designated as such registries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: 1) Backlash to political correctness/alt right. These people are young and do not care about policy, jobs or issues in general they just hate the left and academia. 2) Old people who live in hick towns who want blue-collar jobs to pay for their mortgage like they used to. (These jobs are either gone forever to automation or to China) Newsflash your jobs are not coming back. They ruined the planet anyway with all that coal. 3) Lifelong republicans who supported Trump only because he was Republican. This includes people who vote single-issue like pro-life. 4) People who hate Clinton and would vote for anyone else, at all.

    3 & 4 have some overlap.
    I obviously didn't vote, but if I had, my vote would almost certainly go to Trump. I don't fully relate to all your points, though.

    Wrt your pt 1, yeah, my vote would be a backlash to pc. I also dislike the left and academia.

    Wrt your pt 2, I can't really relate, I found Trump's nonsense talk about "bringing jobs back" rather annoying, but I found his apparent respect for blue-collar professions and vocational training refreshing and encouraging.

    Wrt your pt 3, yeah, I can relate, the DNC rhetoric seems totally alien, irrelevant and to a very large extent even contradictory to anything that I care about. I think that has to do with a dichotomy that relates to Socionics, "joiners" vs "individualists", idealists vs rationalists, "male" vs "female" psyche, whatever, not sure how to pinpoint it accurately.

    Wrt your pt 4, I got thoroughly disillusioned with the Clintons already back in the 1990s, less than two years after they came on the national scene, so yeah, I would rather vote for a sack of potatoes than for anyone in the Clinton machine.
    Last edited by ragnar; 01-18-2017 at 06:31 PM. Reason: improving sloppy grammar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    I genuinely do not understand although I am trying.
    Victor Davis Hanson is one of my favorite writers, I think this article points to a significant part of the explanation:

    Victor Davis Hanson: Trump and the American Divide
    How a lifelong New Yorker became tribune of the rustics and deplorables


    This map ( 2016 US Presidential Election Map By County and Vote Share ) illustrates the situation quite well, I think. The US has like 3100 counties, Trump won more than 2500 of them, without the most urban ones HRC would have lost the popular vote by millions.
    Last edited by ragnar; 01-16-2017 at 09:56 PM. Reason: demuddling expression
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    Victor Davis Hanson is one of my favorite writers, I think this article points to a significant part of the explanation:

    Victor Davis Hanson: Trump and the American Divide
    How a lifelong New Yorker became tribune of the rustics and deplorables


    This map ( 2016 US Presidential Election Map By County and Vote Share ) illustrates the situation quite well, I think. The US has like 3100 counties, Trump won more than 2500 of them, without the most urban ones HRC would have lost the popular vote by millions.
    Good recommendation, do you have more of these articles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    Victor Davis Hanson is one of my favorite writers, I think this article points to a significant part of the explanation:

    Victor Davis Hanson: Trump and the American Divide
    How a lifelong New Yorker became tribune of the rustics and deplorables


    This map ( 2016 US Presidential Election Map By County and Vote Share ) illustrates the situation quite well, I think. The US has like 3100 counties, Trump won more than 2500 of them, without the most urban ones HRC would have lost the popular vote by millions.
    That map is also the reason why the Electoral College is a thing. When the Republic was founded you had better bet your ass the more "rural" states understood that if they left it all up to the popular vote they'd eventually become nothing more than vassal states to the "urban" powers. This is also why the Republic has lasted as long as it has without conflict (the Civil War notwithstanding).

    To most amicably govern an entire nation that is as vast as ours you have to have some form of legitimacy from both the urban and rural populations (as once a country gets this big you need to make sure one half doesn't suddenly tell the other to go fuck itself). The urban people may outnumber the rural population yes, but lemme ask you this. How long do you think that'd be the case if the rural folk suddenly decided to tell the urbanites to fuck off, made a list of demands (that would certainly piss off any liberal worthy of the term to no end), cut off the food supply chain (which they ultimately control top to bottom) and then say that they'll only start shipping food into the cities again once their demands were met? Most city slickers haven't even the slightest clue how crop production works. Hell, they couldn't even grow a basic garden competently. Poor fools would bury the seeds too deep or drown them in way too much water. Hell many of them'd shit themselves at the sight and buzz of a Bee!

    It'd be a mass starvation die off of the urban population and the country would once again become a majority rural nation again. The city folk don't seem to understand this point sadly. I just hope Trump survives the next 4 years and/or if he dies early it's because of natural causes. If someone kills him off it's Civil War 2.0. Me and mine will most assuredly prevail in that conflict, but I REALLY don't want millions to die for bullshit reasons. War is stupid, always was, always will be. I do NOT want one to happen within my nation's borders within my lifetime. Or anyone's to be honest, I really want World Peace to finally be a thing we all enjoy...
    Last edited by End; 01-18-2017 at 05:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    These tweets are the voices in Trump's head.
    Trump seems to me to be a person who had to create a false personality in order to survive his childhood (his brother died an alcoholic). Eventually, the false personality took over and buried the person that Trump was. But I'd like to think that that person is fighting back, in the form of tweets addressed to the created Trump.
    I see it more as him playing a kind of 3d Chess. I'm rather in agreement with Scott Adams in how to interpret Trump's behavior. The man understands on an instinctual level that rationality is a lie. By grasping this he has become a Master Persuader. You, me, his enemies, his friends, not a single one of them is rational. That's why he can persuade them all so effortlessly. Once ya get that, well, ya stop trying to make sense in a traditional sense. I could list several other "filters" one could try to understand him and this election's results by but in the end they all come up the same. Trump wins, flawless victory, and the reason most people got blindsided by that is because they yet cling to false filters (e.g. Humans are "rational" at base).

    If, IF, he's some sick deranged mess then he's but a reflection of ourselves given that. Only if we were sicker than he could he have won, and he won. Well now, what's that say about "us" eh? In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. I'd say he's the in the land of the bald yet owns the only toupee, but the analogy still works now doesn't it .

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    Its interesting and revealing to see people react along socionic lines towards Trump. I see people in my life who almost at a gut level fail to comprehend him and his personality. They react with dumbfounded disbelief "how could he do THAT??" And other such confused platitudes. No one seems to estimate him for what he should be reckoned for. Its not about rationality as End has pointed out. It's about I'm Ceasar and this is my Rome and the people love me and how I say reality is will be how it becomes, Senate be damned. It's about I'm powerful and if you want a piece of this power pie your better hitch a ride and hold on and remember who got you here. ....2500 counties got you here.

    You got to hand it to him, like I said over a year ago on this forum watch out because that guy is going to be the President. Everything single thing he did was perfect... from leaving his HRC debates seconds after they finished with his trophy wife in tow into their caught on camera luxury $50,000 Black Escalades, to standing behind Hillary in a dominating position during the town hall debate. It was a race between Mommy and Daddy and America wanted Daddy. That's why older males voted this election. What did America think that after a decade of Middle Eastern wars their countries psyche wasnt going to be a little messed up? The guy might be a sociopathic narcissist, but he is still a political genius, and he did what he did with such obvious contrived posturing that came out looking more authentic in its audaciousness then any thing else ever could. I may not agree with him, but I applaud what he just did, from a human tribal stand point, becoming the big chief, in any circumstance, takes a hell of a lot of nerve to get to this place.

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    It is important to remember that Trump lost the general election by 2.5 million votes.
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politi...e-final-count/

    He was basically elected by gerrymandering and by appealing to racism and fear, something that still works for about half the population, because critical thinking is not encouraged by either party, and racism is still a very real thing in many places.
    http://www.vox.com/2017/1/18/1429612...orhood-cartoon

    It is also important to remember that the economically productive counties in the US overwhelmingly voted for Hillary.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...this-election/

    And even though Trump won the election, he is an amazingly unpopular president.
    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...rump-unpopular

    Trump certainly doesn't have a mandate to run the country, and most people are not deluded about his character.

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    I don't support Trump, but neither do I support the "establishment" and basically all the mainstream US media. There is all sorts of corruption and nonsense and the economy is in shambles and Trump somehow senses this intuitively from his experience as a businessman. The politics is in the hands of Wallstreet and neo-cons and military-industrial complex. We all know that the US is basically fucked. Trump probably knows it too. I guess he wants to at least try to turn it all around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I don't support Trump, but neither do I support the "establishment" and basically all the mainstream US media. There is all sorts of corruption and nonsense and the economy is in shambles and Trump somehow senses this intuitively from his experience as a businessman. The politics is in the hands of Wallstreet and neo-cons and military-industrial complex. We all know that the US is basically fucked. Trump probably knows it too. I guess he wants to at least try to turn it all around.
    I agree with all of your points about the economy and who is running it, but I think Trump will only make things worst. He promised to "drain the swamp", but immediately broke that promise when he appointed both billionaires and Washington insiders to his cabinet. He seems uninterested in intelligence briefings or in policy or in the rule of law. Remember his "You'd be in jail." comment to Hillary?

    Many people voted for George Bush because he was the kind of guy they'd like to have a beer with. One of their own. What they got was a government of rich thieves who started two wars, deregulated the banks so they could steal faster and left America with the tab, and incompetent political appointees who gave us the response to Katrina.

    When you elect people who hate the government, would you expect them to make government work better?

    What most people who vote for these guys, whom they relate to and think will do right by them, fail to understand about them is that they don't want to have a beer with us.

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    I'm just amused at the amazing support for a vagina grabber by so many of the people whinging ZOMG Muslim refugee youth in Germany touching women's butts. EURABIA END OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!!11!1!

    Be that as may, I despise the United States and want to see it destroyed, and my only regret is that both candidates couldn't somehow win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    I think we can be sure various agencies concerned with public security already have registries that in practice can serve the purpose of a list of muslims, both in America and in Europe.

    Actually, I'm pretty sure even local police in many places can easily get a list of local people who have engaged in "suspicious activity" such as visiting Mecca, made phonecalls to the "wrong" people, bought jihadi literature, visited mosques, bought halal meat and what not. In a digital age, anyone who has authority to get data from commercial and gov't databases can hardly help collecting data that essentially constitute registries like that, even though their databases are not formally designated as such registries.
    Historically the US has had these things called "warrants", where a government agency has to demonstrate that there is probable cause to believe that someone is committing a crime before they demand this kind of information.

    More recently the NSA has been doing mass collection of data, without warrants, with the help of companies like Google and Facebook. Supposedly this is against the law but that doesn't seem to stop them.

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    Even though I was indifferent to who would win the election, I have a kind of morbid curiosity to what will happen to the country with Trump as president. As merely a spectator as a Canadian, I did find the presidential race fascinating personally. I wonder if Trump will live up to his promises and actually do some good for the country despite his unappealing character or if he's just a snake oil salesman that made a lot of false promises to get elected like most politicians tend to do.

    Anything is possible, but the truth will be revealed in time on what his true intentions are and whether Americans made the right decision or not. They decided to take a huge gamble with Trump. Simply put, Clinton was the safe choice that would probably not result in anything extraordinary or anything awful either, but Trump is the risky choice that could either pay off well or blow up in their face IMO. I found an interesting article that sheds some light on why Americans opted for Trump over Clinton:

    http://www.newsweek.com/science-can-...clinton-484449
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    You got to hand it to him, like I said over a year ago on this forum watch out because that guy is going to be the President. Everything single thing he did was perfect... from leaving his HRC debates seconds after they finished with his trophy wife in tow into their caught on camera luxury $50,000 Black Escalades, to standing behind Hillary in a dominating position during the town hall debate. It was a race between Mommy and Daddy and America wanted Daddy. That's why older males voted this election. What did America think that after a decade of Middle Eastern wars their countries psyche wasnt going to be a little messed up? The guy might be a sociopathic narcissist, but he is still a political genius, and he did what he did with such obvious contrived posturing that came out looking more authentic in its audaciousness then any thing else ever could. I may not agree with him, but I applaud what he just did, from a human tribal stand point, becoming the big chief, in any circumstance, takes a hell of a lot of nerve to get to this place.
    Scott Adams also pointed that out. We're OK with Mommy running the house when things are going peachy, but in times of hardship we all know that "Daddy" knows best. You are correct, these are troubled times and he fulfilled the roll of "daddy" so it's no wonder he got a boost from that. You're also right in how much chutzpah it takes to do what he did, fitting too, given how closely he and his family are intertwined with the ethnic group that invented the term. A term no other group has BTW. It's like Schadenfreude for the Germans. Only a certain type of people would think so much about a given concept that they'd invent a word for it . I'd like to claim us rednecks had something like that but it escapes my mind. If there's a single word for "absolute defiance" in any language I'd like to hear about it, for I think I'd rather like the ethos behind the people who came up with it.

    Also @Adam Strange, fear is one of the most powerful motivators out there, and racism is actually a natural thing. I don't like that it is but nobody wins a game by denying reality and adopting strategies that essentially amount to putting ideals before facts. Plenty of people put ideals before facts, they're mostly dead now. If not dead, well, they certainly lost the war. Ask the Native Americans how believing we're all one with the great spirit or somesuch worked out for em'.

    I'd also question how one defines "productivity". If all we're talking about is money then I'll agree with you completely and concede the point. I am damn sure not going to underestimate the global financiers and their ability to separate fools from their money in even the flimsiest of circumstances. However, if we were to count "physical" productivity of those sectors, well, I'd bet they don't actually produce much in the end. Fuck the "GDP" as it were. How many auto parts did they crank out? Bushels of Grain? Acres of veggies? Barrels of Oil? Tons of any Ore ya might care to name? You... get my point I pray. Cash doesn't equal "real" productivity in the end no matter how much our rulers want us to believe that bullshit. Any scammer can make trillions in a day if they get lucky enough, but you can't just scam a billion tons of Iron Ore into existence as if by magic. Just putting that out there... There are makers and there are takers. If the takers just so happen to make a killing it doesn't change the fact that they are takers and thus parasites. If they kill off the host, well, that's curtains for them and they couldn't deserve it more. Smart parasites don't kill the host in a storm of short-sighted avarice. Sadly, I fear the current crop that rules over us is just that short sighted.

    They'll die, me and mine will live, but I will not be all that happy about it. Winning by default is... boring. It's like when you "win" in "grand strategy" video games (e.g. Civilization or Stellaris). Once you hit a certain point on the map/in the game everyone and their grandparents get that you've won hands down period, but the computer just won't admit it and cough up the achievement unless you mindlessly grind it out for a few more hours. Boring.

    The only silver lining of it all is that I'll survive it. I got my crop rotation down, I got my tools, connections within my community, canning skills, etc. They got... financial chicanery. Yeah, I win in the end but, again, I'm not feeling all that good about it. You'd think I'd be jumping for joy at the prospect of the coming doom and how it takes out the SJW pussies but... All I feel is nothing. The rural population survives, the urbanites eat each other. The cycle never changes... and I am so weary of the slaughter either by swift bullets exploding skulls or by slow starvation and prolonged suffering of the out groups...

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    I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.
    Even if he is not. I am already satisfied having tasted the sweet tears of all those autistic leftists that was so sure he wouldn't get elected in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.
    Me too, at least on some level. What he did or what he lead up to makes little difference, what really matters is if he keeps this global clusterfuck from detonating into a mass extinction event. Either we figure out FTL on this iteration and break out into the stars or we become yet another Tomb World for a more lucky civilization that got it right to study a few eons down the road.

    I'm really hoping for the former, as the latter means your species was just a "statistic" as far as the Galaxy was concerned. A potentially very nice statistic for the Civilization that happens to colonize the corpse of a world you left somehow, but a statistic nonetheless. I don't know about you, but I'd rather my descendants personally introduce the Xenos to the awesomeness of Heavy Metal rather then some Archeological team discover a random data core that contains all the greatest Metal riffs that inspires some alien nerds to compose stuff that sounds like it came out of the mind of Ronnie James Dio. They wouldn't have the slightest clue of what I'm getting at there, but hey, humans reference human stuff. If we die and yet leave a record the aliens will reference us without any knowledge of who "we" were as we would wish to tell them. After all, we dead, they just came across a remarkably well preserved record of who "we" were in their eyes and/or cultural context.

    Food for thought in any event. If ya knew humanity was fucked down the road no matter what you or your progeny did, how would you respond? It's an intriguing question. Me? I'd just go for optimizing the next century or so. If humanity dies over 10k years from now than I could care less. I'd rather make the next 1-2k years awesome for me and mine. But that's just me, I'm just a dumb ignorant redneck country boy after all. At least that's what ANTIFA wants ya to think....
    Last edited by End; 01-21-2017 at 04:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    It hasn't even been a week and a half since Trump was elected, and already so much seems to be happening or on the verge of happening.

    For example, apparently some people think this kind of thing is alright:

    http://time.com/4574732/donald-trump...slim-registry/

    Are people really okay w referring to Japanese internment camps as a precedent for government action now?
    It's a vehement NO from me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Even though I was indifferent to who would win the election, I have a kind of morbid curiosity to what will happen to the country with Trump as president. As merely a spectator as a Canadian, I did find the presidential race fascinating personally. I wonder if Trump will live up to his promises and actually do some good for the country despite his unappealing character or if he's just a snake oil salesman that made a lot of false promises to get elected like most politicians tend to do.

    Anything is possible, but the truth will be revealed in time on what his true intentions are and whether Americans made the right decision or not. They decided to take a huge gamble with Trump. Simply put, Clinton was the safe choice that would probably not result in anything extraordinary or anything awful either, but Trump is the risky choice that could either pay off well or blow up in their face IMO. I found an interesting article that sheds some light on why Americans opted for Trump over Clinton:

    http://www.newsweek.com/science-can-...clinton-484449
    More than half of the US population did not want him. Count me out of the blanket statement of "whether Americans made the right decision or not". I am an American who did not decide this; I was very opposed to it.

    I saw (and still see) his farcical behavior during his presidential campaign, and ongoing even now (and for that matter, his track records from the past), as a very ominous sign that there is very little good that he can do for our country. Any good that he will do will only be a byproduct of him serving his own self-interests, which may happen to benefit others similar to him (by coincidence), and be at the expense of many other Americans (even many of those who voted for him). It will also be at dire expense of America's interactions with the rest of the world.

    Please do not generalize on all Americans on this choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    I saw (and still see) his farcical behavior during his presidential campaign, and ongoing even now (and for that matter, his track records from the past), as a very ominous sign that there is very little good that he can do for our country. Any good that he will do will only be a byproduct of him serving his own self-interests, which may happen to benefit others similar to him (by coincidence), and be at the expense of many other Americans (even many of those who voted for him). It will also be at dire expense of America's interactions with the rest of the world.
    Farcical? His actions indicate otherwise.


    Can we all agree that irony is no longer a legitimate thing and that a person's humor is at least somewhat grounded in actual opinion now?

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I despise the United States and want to see it destroyed
    I think you may get a lot of destruction but the United States won't disappear, it will probably just get worse and more malignant until a bigger person with a bigger stick stomps it down like so many other societies, or after great internal conflict it rises anew.

    Conflict and destruction is inevitable, and a lot of it will occur and a lot of people will be lost in great tragedy. And in time people will lament America for it's greatness and its loss and rebuilt it elsewhere. Individually we are caught in the ebbs and flows of our times and there are few choices we can make to determine the course of the world around us. Do you only want destruction for hundreds of millions of people?

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Even if he is not. I am already satisfied having tasted the sweet tears of all those autistic leftists that was so sure he wouldn't get elected in the first place.
    There are no significant left in America, not truly, and if and when it finally rises as it can in society, it will bring blood and fire.

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    This is going to be a money grabbing frenzy. Drain the swamp my ass. We need to put an end to the corrupt president elected and his cronies. We need to fight harder for income equality and equal opportunity. Make America Real Again.

    Donald Trump cares about Donald Trump and doesn't give two shits about the working class he exploits.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.
    So much for that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    More than half of the US population did not want him. Count me out of the blanket statement of "whether Americans made the right decision or not". I am an American who did not decide this; I was very opposed to it.

    I saw (and still see) his farcical behavior during his presidential campaign, and ongoing even now (and for that matter, his track records from the past), as a very ominous sign that there is very little good that he can do for our country. Any good that he will do will only be a byproduct of him serving his own self-interests, which may happen to benefit others similar to him (by coincidence), and be at the expense of many other Americans (even many of those who voted for him). It will also be at dire expense of America's interactions with the rest of the world.

    Please do not generalize on all Americans on this choice.
    As with any democracy, especially one with an electoral college, there will be about half of the population that did not want someone as president. I was referring to the half of the population that voted for him, not the other half that didn't. I didn't make that clear because I thought that was obvious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I agree with all of your points about the economy and who is running it, but I think Trump will only make things worst. He promised to "drain the swamp", but immediately broke that promise when he appointed both billionaires and Washington insiders to his cabinet. He seems uninterested in intelligence briefings or in policy or in the rule of law. Remember his "You'd be in jail." comment to Hillary?

    Many people voted for George Bush because he was the kind of guy they'd like to have a beer with. One of their own. What they got was a government of rich thieves who started two wars, deregulated the banks so they could steal faster and left America with the tab, and incompetent political appointees who gave us the response to Katrina.

    When you elect people who hate the government, would you expect them to make government work better?

    What most people who vote for these guys, whom they relate to and think will do right by them, fail to understand about them is that they don't want to have a beer with us.
    Unfortunately I think Trump and destruction is what a segment of the population wants. I don't think the people who vote for Trump are stupid, my brother's in laws voted for Trump and they're far from that. But there is a existential nihilism they have which fuels them which comes from their upbringing and entitlement. They have the power and the privilege in society or at least this is something they feel, but they're also on the way out in the firmest sense.

    I think Nietzsche spoke about these psychological forces with great insightful although incomplete in many ways. He spoke of passive vs active nihilism and in a great sense nihilism is the force at play today, both passive and active. There is a goal to this nihilistic intent and that is destruction. Unfortunately much of what could resists the current movements is besot by a force of passive nihilism, and much of what steers these movements is driven by an representative of active nihilism. The tragedy of the situation is that passive nihilism will not be able to resist the forces of active nihilism, and perhaps only a contest of will, a contest of destructive forces can this dynamic be resolved.

    The other dynamic at play is that many of the individuals who voted for trump are driven more so by passive nihilism, as they wait for their own inevitable doom, they're too weary to truly destroy so they choose a proxy. And the object of their destruction is their children and descendents, much like Greek god Chronos eating his young, much like time eats at them.

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    Why is my mobile bill so high, and why is it rising?

    https://promarket.org/how-pro-compet...less-industry/

    If you don't want to read the whole article, just skip to the last paragraph and the last graph.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Why is my mobile bill so high, and why is it rising?

    https://promarket.org/how-pro-compet...less-industry/

    If you don't want to read the whole article, just skip to the last paragraph and the last graph.
    There is actually a thermodynamic explanation to all this actually which shows this to basically true.

    However the rules and practice of modern economics is more classical mechanics and thus it cannot truly understand the informational systems which represent what is happening. ]

    Succinctly a lot of what ppl see as "wealth" is entropic and what is called overheating in the business cycle is when the entropy of the system is too high. There is much more to this which I do not understand.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoeconomics

    I do want to read this book.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...w-of-economics

    Which I think is thinking about it in a similar way as I, it is written by a German physicist who expounded on ideas of

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Georgescu-Roegen Ironically(maybe not so much) a political refugee from Romania.

    I think until humanity get a good grasp of economics in a thermodynamic sense and able to resist the political forces which wishes to keep this understanding silent, there is unlikely to be any long term ability to manage societies towards newer structures.

    At the present time I think only the Chinese have a opportunity to adopt this viewpoint. This is because they are still open to novel modes of thinking and seek to succeed without the collapse western society is facing.

    They're at least hiring people who are on these tracks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Rifkin

    There is some issue with how these individuals think about the topic however and the inherent issue with understanding the world is one of passive compliance to this understanding, where active resistance is another and perhaps better option.

  33. #73
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alioth View Post
    Farcical? His actions indicate otherwise.


    Can we all agree that irony is no longer a legitimate thing and that a person's humor is at least somewhat grounded in actual opinion now?
    point well taken. I should say "seemingly farcical" to be more precise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    I think you may get a lot of destruction but the United States won't disappear, it will probably just get worse and more malignant until a bigger person with a bigger stick stomps it down like so many other societies, or after great internal conflict it rises anew.

    Conflict and destruction is inevitable, and a lot of it will occur and a lot of people will be lost in great tragedy. And in time people will lament America for it's greatness and its loss and rebuilt it elsewhere. Individually we are caught in the ebbs and flows of our times and there are few choices we can make to determine the course of the world around us. Do you only want destruction for hundreds of millions of people?
    I was actually just being sarcastic to convey the sentiment of "why can't they both lose," but in a sardonic way that's slightly less cliché.

    I'm not actually a genocidal weirdo. :~

    OTOH, eff America for burning my own country to the ground. So I'd be lying if I'd said there wasn't a tiny bit of opinion limbo going on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.
    People don't shut up about good presidents, or even bad ones. They shut up about mediocre ones. When's the last time you heard of William Howard Taft?
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    I know I shouldn't post twice a day on this topic, but today was a big day for Trump. He met with Big Pharma.

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...resident-trump

    Here are the numbers on what the Pharmaceutical Industry makes by gaming the market. Just read the last paragraph if you just want the take-away.

    http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press...t+the+Press%29

    Man, I hope the guys who voted for Trump really like that wall he's building. While the working class is distracted by building a wall*, Trump and his buddies are busy back home stealing their future.

    *http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...on-in-the-u-s/

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I was actually just being sarcastic to convey the sentiment of "why can't they both lose," but in a sardonic way that's slightly less cliché.

    I'm not actually a genocidal weirdo. :~

    OTOH, eff America for burning my own country to the ground. So I'd be lying if I'd said there wasn't a tiny bit of opinion limbo going on here.
    What country are you from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Wow.

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