Share your thoughts...
Share your thoughts...
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-11-2020 at 04:44 PM.
(Again, I do have ESFJ friends and family but I loathe what I feel is control regarding ethics.)
I am very curious as to how my beneficiaries view me; despite differing world views, my friendships with ENTJs have been smoother, I believe. I think when perceiving functions differing, you're less likely to be in each other's business *shrugs* .
We get on supremely well (instinct compatibility helps, he's So/Sx), although I feel he is sometimes hm... not driven and genuine enough. Mostly the latter, since I can trigger his ambition through mine.
He behaves strangely to distract himself, not paying attention to my strivings. He does back me up sometimes, which I appreciate. He can fix my social blunders as well. In lax conversation, everything is okay, the flow is good. Talking about social matters is nice, we share the same interests and vocabulary in that regard. He complains more, I try to find new practical ways. He's about ten times faster when understanding something, which upsets me a little since I want to keep up. I sometimes change topics to take charge. Other than that, I admire his quick wit and cheer for him. I tend to compliment, instruct and encourage him often because I see his talents. I also organize most of our partner work but that's not a problem, I just like the right type of feedback.
When texting, he sometimes doesn't answer without explaining why?? He keeps a lot of opinions to himself, it seems, while I am very straightforward. It's cute how easily distracted he is, but that also has its pitfalls. I sometimes feel that he is hypocritical, saying yes on the outside while being like "nah..." on the inside. I'd rather have an honest person instead of a manufactured nice one that doesn't show resistance.
The cool thing about our collaboration/friendship, he is such a social butterfly. I get acquainted with ten new people each day when we're together. His network includes many people that I miraculously like and who miraculously like me, birds of a feather indeed.
All in all, a literal benefactor to me.
It depends on how considerate, forgiving, and generally positively predisposed my Benefactor is to me.
Generally in the past, I commonly would feel the odd desire to impress them, "make it up to them", without me actually being in debt with them.
When the Benefactor was male, I'd usually admire him, and in some cases it would turn into a low-key obsession of sorts (in short, limerence).
When your Benefactor praises you for what you are doing, or appreciates you, it can be quite a confidence and mood boost.
And on the other hand, it can be quite hurtful when they don't.
I find that even when my Benefactor held back initially, I'd try even more to make them like me.
It seems like the Beneficiary is commonly in the position of the "biggest fan" around the Benefactor.
Having had a couple of negative experiences with my Benefactor in the past, I have become more wary of them.
I have noticed that people like me will become sort of bitter or cautious around their Benefactor.
Especially when the Benefactor looks down on the Beneficiary for what they deem to be some kind of "incompetency" in certain areas (mostly pertaining to the Beneficiary's PoLR, I reckon).
This kind of interaction is rather dissatisfying, and can give me the desire to just avoid them.
P.S: The subtype probably matters here a lot, too. It is always much more difficult to get along well with an ESI-Fi for a longer time.
@Chae, eh, I see this with my Se valuing friends; if EII/IEEs keep opinions to themselves, it's because they don't really care to contribute, it's not important, shrugs. When it is though, we take time to take action; it's something that gets better with age because then we are more sure of how to handle those situations.
More generally it seems like the beneficiary can feel a bit unnecessary or ignored, since the benefactor "can do everything they do", or at least they think they can. Yet, they often end up using the beneficiary's abilities out of convenience, giving them errands so to speak.
Usually I'm a little intimidated by my benefactor; I get the feeling that they run a lot 'smoother' than I do socially and I end up feeling very awkward as a result. I have one benefactor I'm friends with that I don't feel intimidated by but I think this is partly due to factors that have resulted in him having lower confidence than the average person.
My relationship with him is good; he's very warm and we joke around a lot, and we can share our observations on other people together. He likes me because he thinks I'm understanding, open and caring, and he thinks that I value my friendships but he's of the belief that I'm less attentive to them than he is. I like him too, and I think he can be very understanding, but he isn't capable of extending this understanding when people are cold and his feelings are being hurt as a result, even though that person may not necessarily have done anything wrong. He's much more disciplined than I am and much more capable of compartmentalisation, and I feel like he is better at saying 'no' when he needs to. I once purposefully provoked him regarding a point that played on Fe valuing/devaluing (I was in the middle of explaining socionics) and he reacted very predictably.
As for the negatives, I end up lecturing him every time we have a conversation about ethics; he doesn't seem to have great depth of understanding when it comes to groups of people who are marginalised, and he's very much focused on himself when we get into these narratives. I would not depend on him to come through for me if it involved inconveniencing himself, but I also know he wouldn't expect this of me.
Like I'm valuable to someone. Which triggers my paranoia, since anyone who outwardly seems to admire me is probably just manipulating me.
I feel amused and entertained, but also like they are being a bitch- that they could probably tone down their gamma bitteryness and be more soft and likeable.
Your benefactor is very entertaining for you. When LIIs are around me, they light up and are really amused by my sense of humor. I too, love the sense of humor of the ESIs.
We should be careful not to over-extrapolate from how we feel about one benefactor and assume that is how we would always interact with any benefactors. As others have mentioned, there are subtype variations, not to mention enneagram, instinctual stackings, and overall maturity. A sample size of one may provide useful anecdotes, but we should not assume insights/feelings from that relationship would generalize to all benefactors.
ILIs/benefactors are some of my best friends, second only to EIIs/identities. I have a few close SEI/beneficiary friends, and I find them to be good and trustworthy but not particularly exciting. By contrast, I seem to find ILIs very exciting; I tend to admire them a lot. The friends from college I keep in the most contact with are two EIIs and an ILI. I have no idea why, but I find this ILI hilarious. He's basically the only person who can regularly crack me up to the point of tears. It's never from something that would be particularly funny to others, but his mannerisms and slight awkwardness make some things he says sooooo funny to me. For example, once we were having dinner at a restaurant, and the waitress gave us some new bread and was about to take our half-eaten bread away. He was like, wait, I'll eat that too. The waitress looked a little confused but left the bread. There was an awkward silence, and then she left, and I started cracking up.
I do find him a bit too ethically rigid. For example, he has this policy that if he talks about person A to person B, he must tell person A what he said. This just seems unnecessary to me. First, he goes out of his way to tell person A what he said, even if person A doesn't care. Second, there are plenty of non-malicious reasons not to tell person A what was said, including many reasons for person A's benefit. Additionally, once he even took it upon himself to tell person A what persons B and C said to each other about person A, which he heard about through person D. He was so removed from being directly involved that he told person A an exaggerated, more hurtful version of what was originally said. Plus, he really should have just told persons B and C to man up and tell person A--it wasn't his business at all to directly intervene.
That being said, he is still one of my favorite friends. I trust him a lot and immensely enjoy our discussions about the meaning of life, figuring out what we want and how to get it, and various intellectual topics.
I currently have two good ILI grad school friends I like a lot. They are dating, and we hang out just the three of us quite a bit, so they call me their daughter. Again, they can be a bit too ethically rigid, but they mostly just argue with each other about morals, not with me. I usually can see where each is coming from and just wish they would stop arguing, cause there is usually no way they can reach an agreement on what they're debating. I do like that they care a lot about being moral though.
I started out with an LII dissertation adviser and switched to one whom I believe to be ILI. I love how efficient our meetings are and how clear she is with the next steps I should take! It's hard to give directions like that for things as nebulous as producing research/new knowledge. She just gets me, y'know? Like, for our meeting today, I prepared a set of five questions about something that is coming up but that we haven't discussed in our previous weekly meetings yet, and she actually preemptively answered all of them before I could ask even one.
This is not to say I get along with/like all ILIs. There is another ILI classmate whom I find to be annoyingly self-centered/selfish, and I once dated an ILI sp/so whose self-preservation instinct was just sooooo strong I couldn't take it.
There was an ILI (I think sx/so) I dated whom I liked a lot. He taught me about a lot of cool things, was super smart, and dressed well. We somehow didn't connect emotionally, though, and he ultimately chose another girl over me, who values/is good at Se.
Oh, there's also an ILI I'm kind of currently romantically evaluating. I love how he shifts my perspective in unexpected ways and how he cares about poor people. There are some things about him that don't satisfy my social instinct, though. Anyway, he's been on a months-long trip to the other side of the world, so I don't have to decide anytime soon.
I think one of my friendships is like this right now. There's a friend who seems to think i'm really cool and wants to be besties, but she kind of irritates me, although we do resonate on some things. It does in fact feel like she has some alterior motive in seeking friendship with me because she seems so overly motivated to get in good graces with me.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
They seem to love me for no reason (visible to me) and feel compelled to get close. For the most part I find them pleasing company. They are reliable and I value that a lot, but they often lack in imagination and volition, which is why I don't feel compelled to interact with them myself.
And yeah I hear ya, on both points.
I'm not particularly inclined to reject her friendship since she hasn't done anything bad to me, but I do feel the need to periodically keep the psychological distance in check. In other words, some things I'd do for other friends i feel more comfortable around, I might restrain myself from doing with her, only to not mislead her into thinking we're besties (which is what she wants).
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I feel sorry for this person you are talking about, @Suz. I mean I know you have the right to complain about her- but I was thinking that maybe she was confusing you being her 'bestie' because of your tendency to give people this positive and uplifting energy when you walk into the room. And she's then sadly being too naive/idealistic/magical thinking and mistaking your gift to do that as some sorta sign that you are amazingly good friends.I'm not particularly inclined to reject her friendship since she hasn't done anything bad to me, but I do feel the need to periodically keep the psychological distance in check. In other words, some things I'd do for other friends i feel more comfortable around, I might restrain myself from doing with her, only to not mislead her into thinking we're besties (which is what she wants).
I think I might have a similiar effect on people- I've noticed during fights the other person will often tear up and say 'I thought we were friends!' and I didn't really... like I have pessimistic issues with the whole friend thing too as everybody knows, but it's like Fe can be this happy drug for people that they need. And I do value friendships ... but I am also so mindful about being stabbed in the back.
[emo moment]I'm so used to being treated like shit that if somebody is nice to me I think they are being sarcastic. I don't believe it.[/emo moment]
I have always been somewhat irritated by my so-called benefactor-type. All, and there were many, seemed to have tried to oversell advice that I didn't really ask for or need, and were seemly miffed when I did not act upon it. I think benefit, supervision, quasi-identical and mirror (the bottom) are the worst relationships, where one party thinks the other should do or think differently.
I'm happy to be friends, but i just dont feel like being at a sister level with her at the moment.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
This contradicts the theory of quadra values and confirms that your understanding has nothing to do with classical socionics.
I like them. I tend to value their opinions, even though they can seem a little dumb sometimes. I feel slightly motivated to make a good impression on them. I also tend to feel slightly protective of them, even of the guys.
I've yet to encounter any of my supposed benefactors to be honest, but I'm pretty sure I know that I am exactly that in regards to someone else I know. He seems... irrationally happy to see me and relishes the opportunity to interact with me and to be honest I kind of like that with a caveat. I don't mind this rather positive attention and interaction, but I feel like I'm essentially unworthy of it. I'm just being me, why is that so apparently good?
I'm not exactly the most charismatic person you've ever met and hell, I'm an ILI who has adopted the policy of eternal honesty in all things (within limits of course). I know I've said something off putting in their presence at least once but he's never seemed to notice my likely somewhat frequent social faux-pas given that. As all who know me personally know, "holding back" is a thing I don't do once certain conditions are met. He meets those, I don't hold back around him, and yet he keeps earnestly smiling.
Perhaps that's because he's never done anything around me that pissed me off or I found worthy of derision. That's a new line of inquiry. How would y'all feel if your benefactor got mad at ya or otherwise directly insulted you? I've yet to read that paper. How do insults from one type/relation tend to translate to the other?
Who else's benefactor is a wealthy Australian ex-convict?
They kind of feel very similar sometimes and sometimes not. Same with beneficiary.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
I’m a socionist! I make shit work by strategizing. If my mom and I get into it I send her to my Se pushing aunt next door lol you have to learn to make strategies in relationships when things get bothersome otherwise we won’t live side by side and in an increasingly populated world you need more patience
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
With regard to difficult ITR, ideally I would spend some free time or even free moments at work with a variety of types. Life might get a boring otherwise. However, life can get pretty stressful and people’s life situations can be difficult. I guess these things might sap your energy and it ends up being easier to stick to mixing with types that are more stable ITR and more mutually beneficial.