Type this sentiment

[Myst]

That confirms that he is probably Se valuing (as well as material success and "getting ahead" being the main point of his little spiel, even if some Ne is involved). Most likely EIE but maybe SLE or SEE.

EIE doesn't talk in this way. I think @darya's analysis is a lot better here about how it is Ep and a temperament clash going on here. You haven't pointed out anything here that would be Fe base, the main points you emphasize aren't Fe either.


I like this thread btw, because I've been thinking about the types of such people. I used to wonder if they were EIE but I've figured out by now that it's more like some Ep type with Fi creative/Fe demonstrative. IEE however did not make sense for them because of them being a bit too loud and confrontational and not being all that insightful from my pov, just crude/vulgar in style. So, I've recently started considering SEE for them. Though the confirmed SEE's I've known are less loud/crazy too.

What's in common with these people is them trying to shake up others, while degrading the quality of the average person's life, by freely throwing around ethical judgments on how people don't resolve their problems by having the wrong attitude, e.g. lying to themselves, and they are telling people to get rid of their shitty lifestyle, to go for the new by being brave and such.

I always found their rambling hard to follow and always saw their decision making as unrealistic. I suspect it's also very little focus on Ni, the advocating for haphazard changes.

If anyone wants to chime in on the possible typing of these people, feel free to, if it's not too off topic

[The Exception]

As much as I am all about "follow your dream," I wouldn't have liked this way of talking about it either. Too pretentious and pushy with too much disregard and too little respect for individual circumstances.

Exactly. I highly value following ones dreams but it's hard for me to just spontaneously disregard individual circumstances or potential consequences. I have to weigh all of those factors in my head first.

Gotta love demonstrative Ni!

[Exodus]

EIE doesn't talk in this way. I think @darya's analysis is a lot better here about how it is Ep and a temperament clash going on here. You haven't pointed out anything here that would be Fe base, the main points you emphasize aren't Fe either.

There is no such thing as "temperament clash" in socionics. Conflicts arise from IM: Fe vs Fi, Ni vs Ne, Fe vs Te, Ni vs Si, etc.

[Exodus]

this is exactly what was bothering me about the whole thing. after @thehotelambush's response, I started thinking it was maybe devalued Te.

like,

"follow your dreams!"

"what dreams?"

"whatever you want!"

"how?"

"believe in yourself!"

"so if I want to travel and I don't have money?"

"don't worry about it, just travel!"

And yes, that's what I was getting at.

[Aylen]

As much as I am all about "follow your dream," I wouldn't have liked this way of talking about it either. Too pretentious and pushy with too much disregard and too little respect for individual circumstances.

Yeah, getting more of the story was helpful. Even though most of the people who have told me to follow my dreams were IEE and EII-Ne but nothing like this dude did it. It was in the context of deeper more meaningful conversation. It was more of an inspirational talk from them.

[ashlesha]

It didn't really become "pushy" until I contradicted him a few times in an irritated way, and then he was defending his point of view (fully and confidently). Pretentious, yes...

Ftr, i didn't get the sense he was trying to bother me, or one-up me, or elbow me away from him and my friend. He seemed genuine about trying to help me understand a message that he thought was important. He was passionate. There was a certain point at which I became like an obstacle/annoyance, but I didn't think this issue was a wedge he was using.

[Chae]

Opposes Delta, hence Beta, EIE 2 sx/so would be my typing.

[darya]

Opposes Delta, hence Beta, EIE 2 sx/so would be my typing.

Fe-dom E2 would find family and friends of utmost importance and wouldn't just opportunistically leave for greener pastures.

[consentingadult]

Type, Quadra, element involved here?

"Go out and follow your dreams! Work and family obligations, bank account... they mean nothing, if you believe in yourself and what you can achieve. If you want to travel the world, you CAN. Right now. No excuses. Think about what you want the most, decide your dream, and don't let anything stop you."

as far as this is type related, I'd say this is Ep temperament in a very unhealthy manifestation. Probably affected by strong narcissism, a disorder involving (hypo-)mania, or just a lot of mind altering substance.

[Myst]

There is no such thing as "temperament clash" in socionics. Conflicts arise from IM: Fe vs Fi, Ni vs Ne, Fe vs Te, Ni vs Si, etc.

I don't know who told you that there is no such thing as that. Rationality and Irrationality are definitely not always compatible.

as far as this is type related, I'd say this is Ep temperament in a very unhealthy manifestation. Probably affected by strong narcissism, a disorder involving (hypo-)mania, or just a lot of mind altering substance.

I think you got it - MDMA is the answer to the question.

[Shazaam]

It has truth to it but sounds so cheesy when phrased that way... I don't really believe you can inspire another person, it comes completely from within. Successful ppl do have a fire and drive probably... they just seem so extroverted and not drained by other people like I am. Also the key is to be interested or curious about other people, without being attached or repulsed. I mean that's why I probably can't ever be a successful celebrity... my personality is just the opposite of that, (my emotional reactions to people are too strong and normal/boring without being all objective celeb fact like- despite being able to Fe up a room.)

Instead of it sounding so fake happy like... I would just remind people that often they are a product of what they are thinking about, their thoughts are influencing their reality... when I was at my happiest time in life I realized that and didn't fight it so much. There wasn't much to think or fight about, or argue or rationalize. It was a matter of going there or not. Of having the courage to risk new things in my life despite my internal perceptions that nothing matters, because the snake always eats the mouse in the end. That sort of stuff can actually make your life better... realizing how your mind likes to limit itself from experiencing things that will actually make you grow. But it could be phrased much better. Also it shouldn't be so career focused. It's not about that... all that stuff can only happen when the person is in the right frame of mind anyway. So it's meaning well and trying to frame that person in the state of mind but the thing is- you sometimes have to go in the complete opposite direction to get that person there. And they have to do it themselves, and only if they want to.

[lemontrees]

E8, sp-last?

[lemontrees]

It reminds me of some stuff my roommate (ESI, so/sx, E1) would say, only she's not really that pushy but rather adamant. Things like "traveling and staying with strangers is the best way to experience things, you should not think anyone will hurt you; they will only hurt you if you have negative thoughts" or, "How can anybody be unhappy when you can go to the ocean and look at the sea? People are too spoiled; that is why they are unhappy" -- and while I love her one of our differences in worldview is that I'm consistently more conservative (I would be careful about which strangers to stay with). She was extolling a movie about the guy who did a tightrope walk between the twin towers, how he had this dream and just lived it to the fullest and all I could think was "I'd be pissed if I were his gf or family member, since he could die."

[Muddy]

Not sure why but I'm imagination that the person who said the quote in the OP was some jocky douche who gets wasted and spreads his or her STDs at parties every other night.

[ashlesha]

Not sure why but I'm imagination that the person who said the quote in the OP was some jocky douche who gets wasted and spreads his or her STDs at parties every other night.

Lol, he didn't seem like a jock type but smooth std spreading operator I wouldn't rule out.

[darya]

There is no such thing as "temperament clash" in socionics. Conflicts arise from IM: Fe vs Fi, Ni vs Ne, Fe vs Te, Ni vs Si, etc.

Ofc there's such thing as temperements in socionics. The point of duals among others is that they have compatible temperaments.

• EP temperament (Flexible-maneuvering)
• EJ temperament (Linear-assertive)
• IP temperament (Receptive-adaptive)
• IJ temperament (Balanced-stable)

[Exodus]

I don't know who told you that there is no such thing as that. Rationality and Irrationality are definitely not always compatible.

There is a bit of a diffrent rhythm that rationals and irrationals have, but if you look at the vast majority of conflicts they are related to IM. That's why members of the same quadra tend to get along despite having all the different temperaments.

Ofc there's such thing as temperements in socionics.

Not what I said, read it again.

The point of duals among others is that they have compatible temperaments.

Or the point is that their leading functions and creative functions are complementary.

[darya]

Not what I said, read it again.

Ok, I get what you mean, but from my observations people can clash because of opposite temperaments in individuals with very accentuated temperaments (particularly at work), even if the otherwise functions are complimentary.

[darya]

Or the point is that their leading functions and creative functions are complementary.

Yes, but temperaments are important on a greater scale when dealing with people and can cause clashes on their own.

[consentingadult]

I think you got it - MDMA is the answer to the question.

My experience is that people on MDMA start licking your ear or pinch your butt, not deliver sermons ;-)

[Myst]

It reminds me of some stuff my roommate (ESI, so/sx, E1) would say, only she's not really that pushy but rather adamant. Things like "traveling and staying with strangers is the best way to experience things, you should not think anyone will hurt you; they will only hurt you if you have negative thoughts" or, "How can anybody be unhappy when you can go to the ocean and look at the sea? People are too spoiled; that is why they are unhappy" -- and while I love her one of our differences in worldview is that I'm consistently more conservative (I would be careful about which strangers to stay with). She was extolling a movie about the guy who did a tightrope walk between the twin towers, how he had this dream and just lived it to the fullest and all I could think was "I'd be pissed if I were his gf or family member, since he could die."

That doesn't sound like the way ESI thinks.

Wow, incredibly naive too, these two statements you quoted from her.

Not Ne PoLR.

There is a bit of a diffrent rhythm that rationals and irrationals have, but if you look at the vast majority of conflicts they are related to IM. That's why members of the same quadra tend to get along despite having all the different temperaments.

We will disagree on the significance of temperaments contributing to compatibility then.

My experience is that people on MDMA start licking your ear or pinch your butt, not deliver sermons ;-)

Different experiences then

[consentingadult]

Different experiences then

My experience is a lot more fun ;-)

[Exodus]

We will disagree on the significance of temperaments contributing to compatibility then.

Let me just get this straight - do you think Contrary types will get along better than Mirrors? What about Semidual and Illusionary?

[Myst]

My experience is a lot more fun ;-)

That's subjective. I don't need either kind of experience (ear getting licked or sermons).

Let me just get this straight - do you think Contrary types will get along better than Mirrors? What about Semidual and Illusionary?

Huh? This in no way follows from what I said. You almost fully ignore the temperament based clashes while I notice them but I do not state that this is the only way for types to have conflict or that it's by far the most significant compared to other ways of conflicting. I'm only claiming that it does have some effect, more than what you think.

[ashlesha]

[Shazaam]

I'm curious though why you often/almost always tend to think having good intentions (but poor actual results) is somehow worse than obviously bad intentions (with equally poor results). I guess one could say the road to hell is paved in good intentions or something like that- but the base outcome is still the same: the situation is shitty regardless. (it's the type of thing that I make fun of you for and call you a typical grimdark str8 girl)

But I am more curious why it personally ticks you off more? I guess for me- the opposite actually angers me more. Somebody that knows with full clarity what they are doing is wrong- and does it anyway with a smile on their face. Somebody trying to help but they always fumble... I can kind of admire that I suppose. Then there is the person who does a lot of bad but their actions have a lot of unexpected good.

(but I don't know what you were talking about was like Oprah/dr. phil sounding stuff that I have made fun of for in the past too so I am probably overthinking this lol)

[ashlesha]

I'm curious though why you often/almost always tend to think having good intentions (but poor actual results) is somehow worse than obviously bad intentions (with equally poor results). I guess one could say the road to hell is paved in good intentions or something like that- but the base outcome is still the same: the situation is shitty regardless. (it's the type of thing that I make fun of you for and call you a typical grimdark str8 girl)

But I am more curious why it personally ticks you off more? I guess for me- the opposite actually angers me more. Somebody that knows with full clarity what they are doing is wrong- and does it anyway with a smile on their face. Somebody trying to help but they always fumble... I can kind of admire that I suppose. Then there is the person who does a lot of bad but their actions have a lot of unexpected good.

(but I don't know what you were talking about was like Oprah/dr. phil sounding stuff that I have made fun of for in the past too so I am probably overthinking this lol)

I'm kinda at a loss/confused by this bcuz I don't prefer bad intentions to good intentions. I think 99% of people - barring sociopaths and shit - have good intentions so I rarely think in terms of bad/good intentions. but its kind of irrelevant because we all hurt each other all the time anyway and like, there are well-intended kkk members or whatever. and I prefer honest filth over veiled filth because its easier to name it for what it is. I don't see what it has to do with this tho except the guy probably had good intentions.

[Shazaam]

there are well-intended kkk members or whatever.

Yeah that's a really extreme example though cause Adam Strange isn't a kkk member or anything like that and you still loathe his dorky good intention ness.

and I prefer honest filth over veiled filth because its easier to name it for what it is.

I hear you- although the thing with genuine good intentions is that you cannot always see your own 'filth' about it. Because you really do mean well- and you don't even see the secret selfishness to begin with.

[ashlesha]

Yeah that's a really extreme example though cause Adam Strange isn't a kkk member or anything like that and you still loathe his dorky good intention ness.



I hear you- although the thing with genuine good intentions is that you cannot always see your own 'filth' about it. Because you really do mean well- and you don't even see the secret selfishness to begin with.

I don't dislike adam because he has good intentions. That's silly. I think everybody on the forum right now has good intentions and I like a lot of them. So logically it doesn't even follow for me to dislike somebody for purely that reason. I could list the reasons why I don't like him but they would go over your head like they have before, since I've said them before, and then I would be the bad guy again for trashing him behind his back over here.

I definitely have my own filth, and I definitely don't see it all. That's just human stuff.

[ashlesha]

What's funny is that you don't see the asshole Chad str8 male shit about him that pisses me off, because you like him and you're blind to it, which is like...so ironic I could cry, lol.

[wacey]

What's funny is that you don't see the asshole Chad str8 male shit about him that pisses me off, because you like him and you're blind to it, which is like...so ironic I could cry, lol.

just for the laughs.

[Pole]

I'm gonna guess an ENFp or ESFp says stuff like that.