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My father is LSI. Imagine we are walking on the streets in some far away city and I simply say: "all the people smell around here" and he will start talking about when the showers were invented and why there were cultural issues related to showering at home and also the technology was missing etc for 2 hours. True.
But what Musk does is different. In the definition of Ni is stated that a characteristic is monitoring the past events in a dynamic manner and trying to predict or conclude "the most prominent possible future scenarios" from it.
Similar to Machine Learning in Data Science.
You have a set of Data. You have machine learning algorithms (say decision making mechanisms for humans which have developed over time) and based on these 2 you actually make predictions for the future in a constant manner and that is usually the prominent function of Ni.
The difference is Ti is static and only offers a reason or a list of reasons for a phenomenon and the focus is not on predicting the future like Musk has. Musk is definitely strong in Ni.
Not only did you not consider that the definition of "funny" can differ from person to person, but also you did not read my comment correctly.
I didn't write LSIs aren't funny. I wrote LSIs don't "try to be funny" on Twitter.
Plus by "creativity" I meant "Ne creativity". In case you forgot, this is a socionics forum. It is obvious to me that Musk has strength in Ne.
His favorite book as a youngster was The hitch hiker's guide to the galaxy from which he derived the meaning of life for him.
My father is LSI, he makes a lot of political jokes which many people don't find funny. I find him funny.
I don't agree on "Ne creativity" - most of the ideas are obvious technical mprovements, the magic ingredient is boldness and driving force. Such as daring to start a private space agency and build sporty electric cars. We built a fast electric go-kart already in university with a LSI friend before the Tesla Roadster came out, the performance benefits were obvious. The battery tech just wasn't there before, but that's not Musk's invention either.
So his meaning of life is 42, really? Does reading those books mean someone is Ne? Most often I've seen LII's use that joke.
Actually: my all time favorite band in my teenage years were Rammstein (Still like them a lot). Till Lindemann is definitely Beta aggressor. He writes the lyrics for the band. There are many puns and double sided jokes about religion, politics, culture and of course sex and I found it absolutely amusing.
True. There is an element of hero-like boldness. In a typology system where the LIE is called "the entrepreneur" I would question the definition of boldness here in terms of being Se related.I don't agree on "Ne creativity" - most of the ideas are obvious technical mprovements, the magic ingredient is boldness and driving force. Such as daring to start a private space agency and build sporty electric cars.
I don't understand how that is related? Musk is actually known to be much more of a business man than an inventor so that is no surprise at all...We built a fast electric go-kart already in university with a LSI friend before the Tesla Roadster came out, the performance benefits were obvious. The battery tech just wasn't there before, but that's not Musk's invention either.
From personal experience, the books LSIs I have known read are more "realistic". They seem uninterested in reading many overly fantasy-based books and merely theoretical articles. "so what?/ what now?" is the question I have heard them ask when there is a debate on overly theoretical matters. I bought "Life 3.0" for an LSI friend and he still hasn't read it after many years; told me it's a nerdy book.So his meaning of life is 42, really? Does reading those books mean someone is Ne? Most often I've seen LII's use that joke.
BTW when I was writing about "creativity vs LSI" in my previous comment, I was honestly thinking about @golden 's footer about Pinterest vs LSI
It's a surprise actually how much LSI and LIE have in common despite all the differences, does anyone know of a thread for this?
I do think that many LIE actually are funny, with all that Gamma bluntness and vitriol. Saying that Ti/Fe humor not being funny for Te/Fi valuers was more just pushing buttons than a truly serious argument. Humor is a bit more complex than that.
Se HA vs. Se creative or Ni HA vs. Ni creative is the question here. Obviously he has to be pretty good at both, which makes typing successful people a bit harder. I think it is Se creative driven by a Ni vision and not the other way around.
I'm saying that no strong Ne is required to come up with these inventions. And I don't like too theoretical articles either, but it's not a problem at all to get into scifi or fantasy. For Ti, the important part is that the fantasy/scifi-world is internally consistent, not if it is realistic in our world. Starting to blend imaginary/realistic haphazardly and having no internal consistency at all is what bothers me. Having an interest in AI is not related to intuition, but might be related to intelligence.
What's a good example of Ne PoLR is to outright ignore possibilities that don't fit your current worldview or tastes, so I recognize very well that rejection of something as "nerdy" or "uninteresting" just out of prejudice. However, often I've noticed actually liking something I initially thought I would hate. Way too often the choice that I first reject (to narrow down by process of elimination) turns out to be the correct one.
Don't be fooled by the fact that LSI's and LIE's can often be found in the same areas. They are very, very different people underneath the hood.
But there is also this text:
"ISTj - An ENTj may find him or her self actively undecided between the ISTj type and his or her native ENTj type. Because the sixth function of the ENTj is Se, it is not uncommon for one to confuse the second creative function (Ni) for that function. When this occurs, an ENTj may have problems deciding between those sensory and intuitive functions. In even more complex situations, an ENTj may demonstrate what appears to be a false lack of Ne, which corresponds to the fourth weakest function of the ISTj. In this instances, the way to discern between these two types and to choose the correct one is to determine whether you actively use Te or Ti. If you use Te more than you use Ti, you are an ENTj. If you use Ti more than you use Te, you could really be an ISTj."
From this link: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-Rational-ENTj
Under possible mistypings
There was a lot on this forum about how much and often people mistake in types. Average typing match is rather low to expect good typing skills, in average.
Also take into account that the very majority on forums has no good typing skills and uses much of random bs as a theory. Then those ones give votes and may to get anything. When you notice here that many ones agree with some type - it's much because of conformism, as people are not adopted to think themselves, having small own typing experience.
X ∆ A-12
Do you really think this is him "being himself and enjoying life"?
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to be staging some type of behavior to attract the youngsters but he does have some Fe role there.
that was honest of youSaying that Ti/Fe humor not being funny for Te/Fi valuers was more just pushing buttons than a truly serious argument. Humor is a bit more complex than that.
I know two LSEs with PhD in hardware engineering and acoustics engineering. They have never met each other but the reasons they bring for not trusting AI and thinking it isn't a promising field are very similar. The reasons they bring sound like those related to Ni painful. LSI is a positivist type valuing Ni so they are, unlike LSE, usually more excited about new technologies and innovative but not yet tested ideas; however I have a hard time accepting that LSI would devote his whole life to implementing imaginary things in real life. From outside it seems to me, once someone does this (implementation of a dreamy idea), however, they are very excited and proud and happy about it and support it as much as they can.For Ti, the important part is that the fantasy/scifi-world is internally consistent, not if it is realistic in our world. Starting to blend imaginary/realistic haphazardly and having no internal consistency at all is what bothers me. Having an interest in AI is not related to intuition, but might be related to intelligence.
What bugs me about Musk and opens me to debate about his type is his extreme "consistency". I personally fluctuate and am not as disciplined as he is (I'm also much younger so that might be a parameter to consider). Yet, one really needs to dive into his biography to be able to figure out how much of what he has done can be considered "sisyphean labor" and how much of it is support from others. LSI has more willpower than LIE but the scope of their activities differ (the latter engages in more variety of activities with less depth)What's a good example of Ne PoLR is to outright ignore possibilities that don't fit your current worldview or tastes, so I recognize very well that rejection of something as "nerdy" or "uninteresting" just out of prejudice. However, often I've noticed actually liking something I initially thought I would hate. Way too often the choice that I first reject (to narrow down by process of elimination) turns out to be the correct one.
X ∆ A-12 " is so Ne and Fi-PoLR that I can't believe it. Musk has got to be ILE.
When it came time to name my own son, his mother and I considered many names. His provisional name when he was still in the oven was "Biff", or "the Biffer". But he is a person, and a person needs a name that they like and they can live with, both as a kid and as an adult. So "Poindexter" was off the table. So was "X ∆ A-12 ". Naming your kid something like that just shows the world that you don't have a clue about how he's going to be seen by that world. And that you don't give a fuck about it, either.
I wouldn't be surprised if the name X ∆ A-12 was just how they're going to personally spell it (which I still doubt, what kind of fucking xbox dorito snorting mtn dew guzzling nerd would spell it like that at family functions... like are they Vulcan or a Borg...), and I wouldn't be surprised if Sasha Archangel is what's actually on the birth certificate. Characters such as "∆" and numbers aren't allowed in given names in The State of California by law. Only the 26 alphabetical characters are allowed along with hyphens and apostrophes. So I do doubt that the X ∆ A-12 name is on the birth certificate, unless they got desperate and just named him some random combination of "X" and "A-" mixed in with Sasha Archangel.
Just speculation up there, but I agree that Musk did announce the name spelling X ∆ A-12 for the publicity. Even if he's having clearly having a blast with it.
That's part of why I think Musk is LIE btw
The Te is also really different i.e. it's more dynamic than Ti. It has disadvantages compared to Ti ofc, but this is its advantage.
And that is the other reason why I see Musk as LIE.
This came to mind after reading @Taffy 's comment
LIE-Ni>ILE-Ne, definitely not LSI
SEE-Fi, possibly LIE-Ni
the contrast between format of interview(er) makes something apparent to me, which is that
when provided with space to gradually unravel his thoughts Musk looks most comfortable "that's a good question"
answering questions: even if he begins with an affirmative statement, this will be followed up by "if this, then that ...but if that, then this" ..."but it depends on (x)"
or he will describe a series of events and appear to discover himself in the process of doing so, ending a dialogue with something like "yeah... so essentially , drive overrides fear ... But it (fear) is kind of annoying. I wish I felt it less" -> https://youtu.be/FE4iFYqi4QU?t=968
"X ∆ A-12" or not, that kid's gonna end up doing a lot of drugs.
"In speech it often uses syntactic constructions "if-then-else", the predictive branches of a developing process. Within limits, the Dialectic strives to find an intermediate point of dynamic equilibrium between contrasting extremes. Dialectical cognition is born from the colliding flow and counterflow of thought, the consciousness and unconsciousness. Thinkers of this style are characterized by an express inclination towards the synthesis of opposites, the removal of contradictions, which they so keenly perceive." - cog styles
^ This is what Musk is attempting, and hey may be one day some EIE will hear his call, and then he won't have to name his kids of the sort X ∆ A-Xii.
For comparison, this is what an LSI (CD type) wrote about his thinking style:answering questions: even if he begins with an affirmative statement, this will be followed up by "if this, then that ...but if that, then this" ..."but it depends on (x)"
"There is like a flowchart in my mind. Every single possible if-then statement is recorded and stored in my brain and I have an amazing memory for it. My plans for the future can be written in C++ format if I wanted. (If I get this job, I will stay for 6 months. Else I will find a new job & work on my real estate liscence simultaneously). When I was younger, interacting with people was a huge flowchart for me, because I had no emotional intelligence (and it is debatable if I still do). I would make a complete flowchart in my mind so I could control the interaction and know exactly how a person was going to react so I wouldn't get my feelings hurt. For example, I would plan an entire interaction in my mind, "I'm going to say "hi, how are you?" her possible responses will be: nothing, something non-commital, and something engaging. If the person says nothing, I will try again and stop conversation if they don't respond. If the person says something non-committal, I'll leave. If the person says something engaging, I will start such-and-such topics of conversation with him or her: X, Y, Z." - LSI"