View Poll Results: what type is Elon Musk?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    15 18.99%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    3 3.80%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    1 1.27%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    17 21.52%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    1 1.27%
  • ILI (INTp)

    8 10.13%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    35 44.30%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    0 0%
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Thread: Elon Musk

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @silke, how do you conclude that what he was talking about was not Te? Outsourcing is efficient and is what you do if you want to get a lot done in a short amount of time. No one in their right mind would try to do every little detail themselves, like making their own nuts and bolts. You can't develop the expertise fast enough to be taken seriously. You have to rely on other companies which have experience doing things, and you just act as an integrator. You sell the idea, you outsource everything that can be outsourced, and you only keep in-house the expertise that you can't find already in existence elsewhere. You inspect their incoming work before you integrate it and you promote your successes so you get more business. Plus you have people who keep track of the money.

    I spend most of my time on engineering and interfacing with customers and a lot less on finding new business, but I'm acutely aware that other people keep the place running.

    The space business was basically handed to Musk because congress wanted the space program to go private. He didn't really have to look too hard for that. I don't think he entirely planned it, either.

    He seems embarrassed that he can't really explain what he does all day. I relate this to the idea that LIE's have an easy time accomplishing tasks and a hard time explaining why they are doing them. Musk may have had an Ah-Ha moment there in the interview, when he was trying to define what he does. His mind might have inadvertently strayed into "And why am I spending my day like that?" territory.

    I was wavering between LIE and ILE for Musk, but @Myst's argument above about screwdrivers and engines convinced me that he's LIE.

    *EDIT* I see that I just reiterated most of Myst's points. I need to learn to type faster.
    I've yet to meet an LIE who would not describe themself as a business man, like he does. Maybe he's not awkward, he just finds the subject boring?

    I've yet to meet an LIE who describes themself as a nano-manager (he does).

    Or an LIE who fits the description of romance style aggressor.

    His Te discussing was not about Te but about understanding, Ti, ie teach the theory of engines not the use of the tools for engines.

    The arguments for LIE are just lacking for me, and sparse, ie 'he invents things' isn't enough to conclude LIE.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    I've yet to meet an LIE who would not describe themself as a business man, like he does. Maybe he's not awkward, he just finds the subject boring?

    I've yet to meet an LIE who describes themself as a nano-manager (he does).

    Or an LIE who fits the description of romance style aggressor.

    His Te discussing was not about Te but about understanding, Ti, ie teach the theory of engines not the use of the tools for engines.

    The arguments for LIE are just lacking for me, and sparse, ie 'he invents things' isn't enough to conclude LIE.
    I said more than just "invent things", stop ignoring the other arguments!

    He actually was against teaching the theory of engines and was for teaching the use of tools.

    I don't know how the hell we manage to interpret the same thing so differently lol.

    Anyway, like I said ILI isn't to be excluded, but gamma NT I'm very sure about.

    All in all, I'd rather see the whole picture here and not just a few cherrypicked details. And the whole picture is that he does all this inventive very productive business/engineering stuff, fulfilling his Ni vision, it's his life basically. How the hell that isn't gamma NT (and especially LIE)... How the hell isn't that big picture weighing in more for you than 1-2 sentences he randomly said here and there?

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I said more than just "invent things", stop ignoring the other arguments!

    He actually was against teaching the theory of engines and was for teaching the use of tools.

    I don't know how the hell we manage to interpret the same thing so differently lol.

    Anyway, like I said ILI isn't to be excluded, but gamma NT I'm very sure about.

    All in all, I'd rather see the whole picture here and not just a few cherrypicked details. And the whole picture is that he does all this inventive very productive business/engineering stuff, fulfilling his Ni vision, it's his life basically. How the hell that isn't gamma NT (and especially LIE)... How the hell isn't that big picture weighing in more for you than 1-2 sentences he randomly said here and there?
    lol

    It made me think though, what did he 'invent?' https://www.quora.com/Has-Elon-Musk-...elf-personally

    Elon Musk invented Zip2, arguably the first ever electronic city guide. This was his first software company and he wrote the software himself. When building this software, he developed a few new technologies for radius searches and directory management. Ultimately, this company was sold to Compaq. Following that, Elon Musk co-founded http://X.com, which was, so far as I can tell, the first E-Bank. While the company was co-founded, he was the architect and principle developer for the software. Another idea that he invented, and patented, was a method for making phone calls over the internet (filed back in 1997).


    Insomuch as rocket technology or electric car technology is concerned, it becomes more difficult to determine exactly what he specifically invented vs what was designed as a team overall. In some cases, Elon might have had the idea and the engineers that work for him flushed it out. In other cases, the engineers came up with an idea and Elon took it upon himself to work it out. In the end, really, the end product is much more important than who gets the credit.
    He isn't really an inventor as such, but a programmer. High level programming again is a more thing.

    And, the 'inventions' with the programming - electronic city guide, radius searching and directory management - all of this is just structure and order. He had an E-Bank but really he was the programmer (Ti) and making calls over the internet is just more programming (Ti).

    The guy is just dripping with Ti

    The 2nd paragraph isn't really him inventing, it's him having an, as he describes it, a nano-management style over a team, and nano-management is again, LSI

    Lol, I guess I just can't see anything other than Ti and LSI for him.


  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    lol

    It made me think though, what did he 'invent?'
    His visions.


    He isn't really an inventor as such, but a programmer. High level programming again is a more thing.
    High level programming seems like an NT thing to me. I don't care for it myself. I prefer low level.


    And, the 'inventions' with the programming - electronic city guide, radius searching and directory management - all of this is just structure and order. He had an E-Bank but really he was the programmer (Ti) and making calls over the internet is just more programming (Ti).

    The guy is just dripping with Ti

    (The 2nd paragraph isn't really him inventing, it's him having an, as he describes it, a nano-management style over a team, and nano-management is again, LSI )
    My LIE ex was a programmer. A very good one.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    His visions.
    This is the invention thing again, when you say 'visions', any type can invent. What Elon Musk did was invent things particular to his type - street maps, directory management, these are all Ti & Se structure (his strength.)

    High level programming seems like an NT thing to me. I don't care for it myself. I prefer low level.
    Not really, Te is a profit/productive logic, Ti is a formal logic. With NT - that includes Gamma NT who are Te.

    My LIE ex was a programmer. A very good one.
    Be that as it may, it doesn't detract from LSI.

    Anyway, as I mentioned a couple of posts ago, i've personally decided on his type, I was hesitant to post again, as I don't enjoy conversations that go on forever, I feel i've extracted what I need. Thanks for the discussion

    Edit:

    I don't know how the hell we manage to interpret the same thing so differently lol.
    lol, I noticed this too. I've heard/think I read that this can happen with quasi-identical types, so, if we can't agree on Elon Musk's type, at least it's a sort of confirmation for each of our types


    '
    In these relations partners always have difficulty understanding each other in full. Quasi-Identical partners always need to convert each other's information in such a way that it corresponds with their own understanding. This conversion requires much energy and does not bring the desired satisfaction. Books written by your Quasi-Identical are impossible to read. The creations of your Quasi-Identical look monstrous. Conversations with your Quasi-Identical, although not heavy, do not bring any satisfaction either. One partner may think that the other partner complicates simple things and simplifies the important points, trying to deliberately confuse and mislead them. Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way.'


    http://www.socionics.com/rel/qid.htm
    Last edited by at sirac son of sirac; 02-25-2018 at 11:38 PM.

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    This is the invention thing again, when you say 'visions', any type can invent. What Elon Musk did was invent things particular to his type - street maps, directory management, these are all Ti & Se structure (his strength.)
    I meant Ni ego future focused visions.


    Not really, Te is a profit/productive logic, Ti is a formal logic. With NT - that includes Gamma NT who are Te.
    Yeah, his is profit/productive logic.


    Be that as it may, it doesn't detract from LSI.
    Lol this is incredible, you used the programming thing to argue for Ti for Elon Musk, now when you get told that Te types can program well too, you say it doesn't matter... Incredible.


    Anyway, as I mentioned a couple of posts ago, i've personally decided on his type, I was hesitant to post again, as I don't enjoy conversations that go on forever, I feel i've extracted what I need. Thanks for the discussion
    I for sure don't enjoy discussing with such biased people ignoring facts staring in their face.


    Edit:

    lol, I noticed this too. I've heard/think I read that this can happen with quasi-identical types, so, if we can't agree on Elon Musk's type, at least it's a sort of confirmation for each of our types


    I don't see a reason to question your self-typing.


    In these relations partners always have difficulty understanding each other in full. Quasi-Identical partners always need to convert each other's information in such a way that it corresponds with their own understanding. This conversion requires much energy and does not bring the desired satisfaction. Books written by your Quasi-Identical are impossible to read. The creations of your Quasi-Identical look monstrous. Conversations with your Quasi-Identical, although not heavy, do not bring any satisfaction either. One partner may think that the other partner complicates simple things and simplifies the important points, trying to deliberately confuse and mislead them. Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way.'
    The bolded might be what got irritating to me.

    (Ofc no hard feelings otherwise. This isn't personal.)

  7. #167
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    This is Ti-lead cognition:



    "boil things down to the most fundamental truths, what are we sure is true and then reason up from there."

    That's definitely not Ni-lead. Ni-lead does not have a cognition or concern for objective, scientific truth but one's own rich, unconventional, highly nuanced inner world. Ni/Te converts inner worlds into new modes of thought. Ni/Fe converts inner worlds into new modes of expression.

    Musk is talking about hard-headed data collection. This is elaborated on in another interview, as follows:

    ...

    Ti-data collection comprises Musk's primary strength and continued point of awareness:



    The interviewer to Musk:

    “You took me on a tour of space x. The most impressive thing was you knew every detail of the rocket and every piece of engineering that went into it.”

    Musk goes on to explain that he doesn't have a mind for the business end of things. Not Te-lead. Te-lead doesn't take in every detail like that.

    ...

    This interview highlights Se-creative:



    5:00-5:50

    The interviewer: “How should somebody figure out how they can be most useful?”

    Musk: “whatever this thing is you are trying to create, what would be the utility delta compared to the current state of the art times how many people it would effect. That’s what I think having something that makes a big difference, but effects a small to moderate number of people is great, but as is something that makes a small difference but effects a vast number of people….It’s really about trying to be useful and matter.”

    It's pretty straightforward. Ti-lead collects data and Se-creative infuses data with the energy/force to make an impact/change/effect. Easily LSI-Se.
    Last edited by Kill4Me; 03-02-2018 at 05:37 AM.

  8. #168
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    ^Oh great, the CEO of a massive AI designing tech company shares the same type and subtype as Pol Pot and Joseph Stalin apparently. What could go wrong?

    I agree with LSI for him btw, just going purely by vibes. Dude himself seems like a killer AI carefully planning to wipe out all of humanity.
    Last edited by Muddy; 03-02-2018 at 08:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    This is Ti-lead cognition:

    "boil things down to the most fundamental truths, what are we sure is true and then reason up from there."

    That's definitely not Ni-lead. Ni-lead does not have a cognition or concern for objective, scientific truth but one's own rich, unconventional, highly nuanced inner world. Ni/Te converts inner worlds into new modes of thought. Ni/Fe converts inner worlds into new modes of expression.

    Musk is talking about hard-headed data collection.
    Actually Ni lead people can very much have a concern for objective, scientific truth - quite some ILI-Te's I've known care a LOT about that.

    The quote on its own doesn't disprove Ni ego whatsoever.


    This is elaborated on in another interview, as follows:

    ...

    Ti-data collection comprises Musk's primary strength and continued point of awareness:

    The interviewer to Musk:

    “You took me on a tour of space x. The most impressive thing was you knew every detail of the rocket and every piece of engineering that went into it.”

    Musk goes on to explain that he doesn't have a mind for the business end of things. Not Te-lead. Te-lead doesn't take in every detail like that.
    He's said before that he's okay with business too. A possible argument for ILI-Te over LIE-Ni though with the details stuff, sure.

    This interview highlights Se-creative:

    5:00-5:50

    The interviewer: “How should somebody figure out how they can be most useful?”

    Musk: “whatever this thing is you are trying to create, what would be the utility delta compared to the current state of the art times how many people it would effect. That’s what I think having something that makes a big difference, but effects a small to moderate number of people is great, but as is something that makes a small difference but effects a vast number of people….It’s really about trying to be useful and matter.”

    It's pretty straightforward. Ti-lead collects data and Se-creative infuses data with the energy/force to make an impact/change/effect. Easily LSI-Se.
    That's anything but straightforward lol... It is nonsensical to claim that only Se egos care about making an impact in any way whatsoever.

  10. #170
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    I adore him tbh, since I discovered he named one his company Boring *_* genius

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    I figured gamma NT. Probably either LIE-Ni or ILI-Te. His thought processes and what he says make a lot sense to me and it sounds like something I would say a lot of the time. He's right about degrees. And if you're trying to accomplish something practical, like construction or engineering, it's important to know the facts, so you can get things right. It's also interesting to see that he doesn't see himself as a genius or a great person or anything and has a tendency to detach himself from his ego; he has a very philosophical mind, as if he doesn't take anything for granted and I love that about him and find it strange to see LSI being thrown at somebody like that.

    From interviews he actually seems very down to earth, which is funny to say considering he's often protrayed as the opposite.

    But LSI with an Ne bent seems like a weird weird weird typing. Maybe Gulenko should develop his own cognitive theory instead of twisting socionics in on itself to the point where you can justify any typing of someone, if you focus on how nobody is a pure type.
    good bye

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    ah-hah.



    good bye

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @silke, how do you conclude that what he was talking about was not Te? Outsourcing is efficient and is what you do if you want to get a lot done in a short amount of time. [/B] No one in their right mind would try to do every little detail themselves, like making their own nuts and bolts. You can't develop the expertise fast enough to be taken seriously. You have to rely on other companies which have experience doing things, and you just act as an integrator. You sell the idea, you outsource everything that can be outsourced, and you only keep in-house the expertise that you can't find already in existence elsewhere. You inspect their incoming work before you integrate it and you promote your successes so you get more business. Plus you have people who keep track of the money.

    I spend most of my time on engineering and interfacing with customers and a lot less on finding new business, but I'm acutely aware that other people keep the place running.

    The space business was basically handed to Musk because congress wanted the space program to go private. He didn't really have to look too hard for that. I don't think he entirely planned it, either.

    He seems embarrassed that he can't really explain what he does all day. I relate this to the idea that LIE's have an easy time accomplishing tasks and a hard time explaining why they are doing them. Musk may have had an Ah-Ha moment there in the interview, when he was trying to define what he does. His mind might have inadvertently strayed into "And why am I spending my day like that?" territory.

    I was wavering between LIE and ILE for Musk, but @Myst's argument above about screwdrivers and engines convinced me that he's LIE.

    *EDIT* I see that I just reiterated most of Myst's points. I need to learn to type faster.
    Very easily @Adam Strange.

    Elon Musk never says anything about efficiency, timing, effectiveness, "interfacing" and "customers" end of outsourcing as you're doing it. He could have said many of the things that you did, but every single of those Te markers are absent from his speech and likewise from his info processing which defines socioncs types. He omits stating any of what you did because he does not have Te in his ego block. Te is an unvalued "limiting" information element for him, why max he's saying on Te is "errr people think I'm a business person, but I'm not".

    And of course he is embarrassed to explain any Te, since he is a Ti-valuing introvert.


  14. #174
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    So what is it exactly about Musk that screams Ti?

    Ti starts with basic axioms/assumptions and formulates conclusions. It's subjective logic. Musk said he doesn't value that kind of thinking because it doesn't work for doing stuff. Before all else, he says that and it seems extremely important to him. And all of his companies are engineering companies looking to push their technology into the future.

    Ti types I've known are keen on politics, government, education, law, order, architecture (be it computer, construction, or whathaveyou), and anything where some form of subjective logic is necessary. Musk left Trump's economic advisory council over Trump exiting the Paris Climate Pact. Musk says he doesn't give a shit about degrees if someone can learn on their own and accomplish better things without one. I don't see how he really gives a shit about Ti stuffs. Big picture, it just isn't there. Of course, we can sit here and pick out little things that he says to argue that he is, but it completely misses the big picture of the man and his life.
    good bye

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    Seems like people come in, say, 'it's not Ti', but provide no actual reasons (meandering, disconnected theory), whilst not taking a look at the evidence provided over the pages. It's just like that, sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by strangeling
    Ti types I've known are keen on politics, government, education, law, order, architecture (be it computer, construction, or whathaveyou), and anything where some form of subjective logic is necessary. Musk left Trump's economic advisory council over Trump exiting the Paris Climate Pact. Musk says he doesn't give a shit about degrees if someone can learn on their own and accomplish better things without one
    This can be the case for politics/government if it's with because of power structures and hierarchy. Why you'd be surprised he'd come out of Trumps economy team when a) Musk isn't interested in economy (which is more Gamma, rather than political hierachial power structure), and as you say, b) he left with the excuse of Trump exiting the Paris Climate Pact, is strange. Considering Musk is the leader of making electric cars, why would this surprise you and make you think it points away from Ti. It's an intelligent move.

    Anyway being associated with Trump puts you in the firing line and detracts from what you're really working on, and even in his business, Musk doesn't care about the running of it (Te), but is a nano-manager of a team of researchers (LSI micro - nano manage their team).

    but it completely misses the big picture of the man and his life
    That is the big picture.

    His inventions (I mentioned earlier) are about categorizing information - creating software for databases, street maps/grids etc. Nothing in what he does is really Te - big picture of his life.

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    Eh whatever, but just because he created software and street maps doesn't mean he isn't Te valuing though. Being Te lead still means having Ti, just not valued. Still don't see how he "values" Ti.

    But fine whatever.
    good bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangeling View Post
    Eh whatever, but just because he created software and street maps doesn't mean he isn't Te valuing though. Being Te lead still means having Ti, just not valued. Still don't see how he "values" Ti.

    But fine whatever.
    This is the typical response of 'he's not Ti' camp. Just to say, 'eh, whatever' and ignore any information, just to repeat, blindly it seems, he's not Ti. As if you saying it makes it true.

    Ironically, it looks as though it's the Ti ego types who are doing this (ignoring the facts.) You probably have logical reasons for it, but you're not explaining them (maybe because they're wrong.)

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    Well now that you've misrepresented everything I've said and accused me of ignoring the "facts" (whatever that means exactly), I'm convinced of your socionics wisdom.

    well done.
    good bye

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangeling View Post
    Well now that you've misrepresented everything I've said and accused me of ignoring the "facts" (whatever that means exactly), I'm convinced of your socionics wisdom.

    well done.
    OK, then why not say what type he is and why. All you've done is gave subjective opinions.

    eg I know Ti types who are keen on politics. Musk didn't want to be part of Trumps economic team (not even politics) so therefore Trump isn't Ti.

    That's basically it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangeling View Post
    I figured gamma NT. Probably either LIE-Ni or ILI-Te. His thought processes and what he says make a lot sense to me and it sounds like something I would say a lot of the time. He's right about degrees. And if you're trying to accomplish something practical, like construction or engineering, it's important to know the facts, so you can get things right. It's also interesting to see that he doesn't see himself as a genius or a great person or anything and has a tendency to detach himself from his ego; he has a very philosophical mind, as if he doesn't take anything for granted and I love that about him and find it strange to see LSI being thrown at somebody like that.

    From interviews he actually seems very down to earth, which is funny to say considering he's often protrayed as the opposite.
    I actually am considering ILI-Te more seriously for him. That type can very superficially be mistaken for LSI btw and for Ti valuing. Even the nano bullshit can fit ILI-Te. Your lines here about him are very Ni too.


    But LSI with an Ne bent seems like a weird weird weird typing. Maybe Gulenko should develop his own cognitive theory instead of twisting socionics in on itself to the point where you can justify any typing of someone, if you focus on how nobody is a pure type.
    Exactly.


    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Very easily @Adam Strange.

    Elon Musk never says anything about efficiency, timing, effectiveness, "interfacing" and "customers" end of outsourcing as you're doing it. He could have said many of the things that you did, but every single of those Te markers are absent from his speech and likewise from his info processing which defines socioncs types. He omits stating any of what you did because he does not have Te in his ego block. Te is an unvalued "limiting" information element for him, why max he's saying on Te is "errr people think I'm a business person, but I'm not".

    And of course he is embarrassed to explain any Te, since he is a Ti-valuing introvert.
    So what is he if not an engineering business person, praytell?


    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    This is the typical response of 'he's not Ti' camp. Just to say, 'eh, whatever' and ignore any information, just to repeat, blindly it seems, he's not Ti. As if you saying it makes it true.

    Ironically, it looks as though it's the Ti ego types who are doing this (ignoring the facts.) You probably have logical reasons for it, but you're not explaining them (maybe because they're wrong.)
    Your hypocrisy is sickening. End of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I actually am considering ILI-Te more seriously for him. That type can very superficially be mistaken for LSI btw and for Ti valuing. Even the nano bullshit can fit ILI-Te. Your lines here about him are very Ni too.
    If you can show me the literature to back this up, i'll believe you. Otherwise it's just you, again, stating opinions, and expecting me to believe them because you believe them.

    Your hypocrisy is sickening. End of story.
    Mostly you've done in this thread is insult me, whilst I've turned a blind eye It says more about you and your arguments than it does about me and mines. Story ends.

    So i'll repeat again. You saying something is true doesn't make it true. Quote established socionics literature to back up any of your points (i've seen none), or it's right to not accept your arguments, as they're opinions only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst
    I actually am considering ILI-Te more seriously for him. That type can very superficially be mistaken for LSI btw and for Ti valuing. Even the nano bullshit can fit ILI-Te. Your lines here about him are very Ni too.
    Even your own logic contradicts you. It's not possible apparently to have an LSI superficially resemble an ILE (for example), but it's somehow possible for an LSI to superficially resemble an ILI (and yet, you sort of admit he is LSI seeming...)

    Maybe there's no point in talking to you: You just don't make sense. Have a good day all the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I actually am considering ILI-Te more seriously for him. That type can very superficially be mistaken for LSI btw and for Ti valuing. Even the nano bullshit can fit ILI-Te. Your lines here about him are very Ni, too.
    I have a hard time seeing Musk as an ILI.

    In my experience, ILI’s are usually brilliant and are constant learners, but the ones I have known personally very rarely actually do anything concrete, and they hate to be held publicly accountable for their actions in the real world. Hence, they very rarely take risks. Maybe that’s related to Fe-PoLR, IDK, but they all seem to have it. And when they fail at something that everyone can see, they tend to want to redefine the judging criteria rather than admitting fault and fixing the problem and moving forward.

    I don’t see Musk doing any of that. He gambles big, fails a lot, and keeps trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    If you can show me the literature to back this up, i'll believe you. Otherwise it's just you, again, stating opinions, and expecting me to believe them because you believe them.
    Here's some literature for you on ILI's brand of detail orientation: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya

    (In the Te section)

    Enjoy the read.

    Now I expect you to back up your own statements with literature too.


    Mostly you've done in this thread is insult me, whilst I've turned a blind eye It says more about you and your arguments than it does about me and mines. Story ends.
    Prove your claims (that I mostly just insulted you in this thread) by directly showing the facts for these claims in this thread - a.k.a. show literature to support your subjective opinions. Good luck. You will not be able to.



    Even your own logic contradicts you. It's not possible apparently to have an LSI superficially resemble an ILE (for example), but it's somehow possible for an LSI to superficially resemble an ILI (and yet, you sort of admit he is LSI seeming...)
    LSI and ILI are both IxTx cold blooded types with Se/Ni valuing.

    No, he is not sort of LSI seeming to me. I never said that, you just wish this to be true.


    Maybe there's no point in talking to you: You just don't make sense. Have a good day all the same.
    Lol, if you continue to ignore the facts then please, it's you who makes no sense, and has extremely subjective opinions. And yeah, if you continue to ignore them even after this post (and I would not be surprised), then there is no point in talking to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I have a hard time seeing Musk as an ILI.

    In my experience, ILI’s are usually brilliant and are constant learners, but the ones I have known personally very rarely actually do anything concrete, and they hate to be held publicly accountable for their actions in the real world. Hence, they very rarely take risks. Maybe that’s related to Fe-PoLR, IDK, but they all seem to have it. And when they fail at something that everyone can see, they tend to want to redefine the judging criteria rather than admitting fault and fixing the problem and moving forward.

    I don’t see Musk doing any of that. He gambles big, fails a lot, and keeps trying.
    Yeah, that's why I went with LIE before, very LIE style of trial and error and large scale risk taking, and it's also why I'm reluctant to just suddenly declare ILI, let alone LSI for him. I guess with the points some people brought up, it just shows Socionics model is unable to cover for all the tidbits we've learned about Elon Musk. He'd have to be nano-manager (whatever that even means) LIE or risk taking ILI or visionary LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst
    I actually am considering ILI-Te more seriously for him. That type can very superficially be mistaken for LSI btw and for Ti valuing. Even the nano bullshit can fit ILI-Te
    Your evidence:

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst
    Here's some literature for you on ILI's brand of detail orientation: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya

    (In the Te section)
    Although you said that ILI-Te are micro (nano) managers, the link you provided is on ILI. Despite it being on ILI, not even ILI-Te, there is nothing in the description which describes ILI as nano managers, because they're not (actually there's nothing even about them as managers). Because, a micro-managing ILI (or LIE for that matter), would just go against all the other theory (democratic quadra. N type vs S type), and real life.

    As suspected, it's hot air, nothing to back up your claims.

    Now I expect you to back up your own statements with literature too.
    You haven't backed up anything yet, but you're consistent in your demands. Here's something I provided earlier:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1254156

    I'd recommend checking what I linked, about LSI as managers, LIE as managers, and even LSEs as managers.

    Anyway, thanks for your input regardless. Have a nice day/afternoon/evening whichever you are
    Last edited by at sirac son of sirac; 03-04-2018 at 06:47 PM.

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    Musk would have to be N. Intuitives think far into the future. The issues of course are the definition of "far" and the type of vision. I mean, any type can look into the future, right? The key is that there are people who don't give a shit about the life of the next generation and how to improve it without trying to appeal to their limited worldview and traditions. These are not Ns.. Trying to progress the human species through advancement in technology, which would significantly change the type of civilization we currently live in? Well, I don't think you can get any more NT than that. I see where people are emphasizing the Se, or the ST, but that is a layer that NT is built upon, like the reptilian or the ape origins of our brain. One should expect to observe those traits to some extent because it is a part of our genetic heritage.
    Last edited by Skepsis; 03-05-2018 at 10:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    Although you said that ILI-Te are micro (nano) managers, the link you provided is on ILI. Despite it being on ILI, not even ILI-Te
    What logic fail is this from your part? ILI-Te is subcategory for ILI... Every ILI-Te is ILI too.

    I noted ILI-Te specifically for two reasons 1) their Te would be more emphasized (note that's the part of the description that discusses the detail oriented work) 2) that's the subtype I specifically observed about this.



    there is nothing in the description which describes ILI as nano managers, because they're not (actually there's nothing even about them as managers). Because, a micro-managing ILI (or LIE for that matter), would just go against all the other theory (democratic quadra. N type vs S type), and real life.

    As suspected, it's hot air, nothing to back up your claims.
    Okay I'll help your logic here again. The description describes ILI as detail oriented about their work. So then, they are easily familiar with details of the engineering stuff, and of stuff they are managing.



    You haven't backed up anything yet, but you're consistent in your demands. Here's something I provided earlier:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1254156

    I'd recommend checking what I linked, about LSI as managers, LIE as managers, and even LSEs as managers.
    Actually, that post I already responded to a while ago, here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1255080

    And you ignored my reasoning there too... even though I was using your source. Lol.


    Anyway, thanks for your input regardless. Have a nice day/afternoon/evening whichever you are
    Okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
    Musk would have to be N. Intuitives think far into the future. The issues of course are the definition of "far" and the type of vision. I mean, any type can look into the future, right? The key is that there are people who don't give a shit about the life of the next generation and how to improve it without trying to appeal to their limited worldview and traditions. These are not Ns.. Trying to progress the human species through advancement in technology, which would significantly change the type of civilization we currently live in? Well, I don't think you can get any more NT than that. I see where people are emphasizing the Se, or the ST, but that is a layer that NT is built upon, like the reptilian or the ape origins of our brain. One should expect to observe those traits to some extent because it is a part of our genetic heritage.
    Exactly. I personally find Elon Musk's stuff fascinating because of that future oriented approach. It's something I just do not do as well or focus on naturally but I admire it in some people (from a distance at least). Btw I would say it's not true that I don't at all give a shit about the next generation or the future but I do not have that type of focus or orientation that the intuitions of the N types provide. Oh well, I'll just always be Ni seeking forever

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    Hmm, just answering to a point made by silke some posts above.

    many statistics give LSE as the most common type in the average population, yet you won't hear discourses about productivity and efficiency at every corner of the street.

    it's not like if you're using a function you'll be displaying the description given for it by a socionic site in every word of yours, it's more probable that you'll act on it...

    Te seems like a trademark for Mr Musk if we get to amplify the meanings for what they actually mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    many statistics give LSE as the most common type in the average population
    lame statistics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst
    Okay I'll help your logic here again. The description describes ILI as detail oriented about their work. So then, they are easily familiar with details of the engineering stuff, and of stuff they are managing.
    Being detailed about their own work says nothing about how they manage other people.

    I thought you would say something like this, which just reveals yourself to be incredibly stupid. For that, welcome to the ignore list

    The underlined parts by you have nothing to do with his management style - it's clear that LIE give freedom in management, which LSI Musk does not.

    Again you add 2+2 without 4, but there's no calculator that can help you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    Being detailed about their own work says nothing about how they manage other people.

    I thought you would say something like this, which just reveals yourself to be incredibly stupid. For that, welcome to the ignore list

    The underlined parts by you have nothing to do with his management style - it's clear that LIE give freedom in management, which LSI Musk does not.

    Again you add 2+2 without 4, but there's no calculator that can help you.
    You are blind to my points because you disliked my pointing out your hypocrisy earlier. So please, do add me to that ignore list, because this is so pointless with you completely ignoring reasoning and facts that it hurts.

    My older post - it is pointing out things that are not to do with the management style but other very relevant facts. That is, relevant to his typing. Apparently to you, if some fact about him isn't about his "nano management" style, it ceases to be relevant to his typing. That's your "logic".

    And, as for the ILI thing, since ILI is ok with work details, then yes, management style may be detailed too. I don't think you'd have a problem seeing the logic here if you were not so biased.

    Anyway, I hope you added me to that ignore list, because I don't want to hear more nonsense from you on this topic. (Not gonna use the ignore list myself because I don't have a problem with your other posts on the forum and I prefer to be able to follow threads without missing posts randomly - the ignored ones.)
    Last edited by Myst; 03-07-2018 at 07:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    lame statistics
    How of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    How of you.
    like your Fi

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    Default Elon Musk

    is amazing.

    Could he be LIE? (Please?) He's kind of my current hero.

    Thoughts?

    For those not familiar (is ANYONE not familiar?!):

    https://www.tesla.com/elon-musk
    https://www.instagram.com/elonmusk/?hl=en

    Apologies if I've missed previous posts on him but just so impressed with the stuff he's working on.

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    Yes LIE,
    read a wikisocion desciption (Gulenko for ex.) and the first chapter of his biography* and it becomes pretty clear. We already have a thread about him somewhere where you'll find more info and opinions.

    * "1: Elon's World" - you can read it on amazon
    https://www.amazon.com/Elon-Musk-Spa.../dp/006230125X
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...2008-Elon-Musk

    edit:
    I like this article a lot: it descibes how Elon works and acts. I think it could shed some light on his type. Also I'd like to point out that I know that I'm not some socionics-guru (: ...but I'm pretty sure he's LIE
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...top-ai-space-x

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    There's a thread on his type on this forum.

    Personally, I think he normally looks a bit ILE, but a recent telecon with investors made me think he's more likely LIE. Both opinions are from VI.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=elon...&bih=990&dpr=1

    Here is a picture of one Te-dom looking at another Te-dom. https://www.thoughtco.com/elon-musk-profile-1992154

    To me, he seems to be thinking, "I get this guy. What can I learn from him? What does he want? What are his weaknesses?"






    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-27-2018 at 05:26 PM.

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    To me he clearly VIs as ILI. Not everyone does VI easily but Elon does. He doesn't look like LIE at all. Not extroverted at all. Clearly IP and NT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    There's a thread on his type on this forum.

    Personally, I think he normally looks a bit ILE, but a recent telecon with investors made me think he's more likely LIE. Both opinions are from VI.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=elon...&bih=990&dpr=1


    Here is a picture of one Te-dom looking at another Te-dom. https://www.thoughtco.com/elon-musk-profile-1992154




    Now that you say it ...my new tutor at uni looks really similar to him but is 100% ILE. Yet Musks behavior is totally LIE. I don't even know what to think anymore. I'm done with socionics.

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    Yeah Elon Musk V.Is as ENTx. Could go either way. His Fe Role is boosted and could pass as Fe HA.
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