How do ESIs show love? (ISFjs)

[Zero]

I noticed that too, ESI will get active sfor the person they love. Very service-oriented. The NFs are into verbal affirmations because of their idealism, SFs are more pragmatic. Confessing? Only through indirect means ("I did it for you"). SEE is much more into declarations, while ESI will subtly show their level of affection by adjusting their routine, going out of their way of doing something, etc. Because they are cutely stubborn, they are prone to verbal denial but their lack of coherence gives everything away

I'm not sure what you mean by how ESIs get active for the person they love, or how their lack of coherence gives them away?
But that is absolutely true. Service-oriented and stubbornness

[Chae]

I'm not sure what you mean by how ESIs get active for the person they love, or how their lack of coherence gives them away?
But that is absolutely true. Service-oriented and cute stubbornness

What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.

The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.

[Zero]

What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.

The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.

Thanks for your reply. That is very true, I have observed traits like that also. It would be nice if they just made it obvious what they hide and not annoy themselves, not fall apart from the inside though.

[Chae]

Thanks for your reply. That is very true, I have observed traits like that also. It would be nice if they just made it obvious what they hide and not annoy themselves, not fall apart from the inside though.

No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.

[Zero]

No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.

Yes, I do that subconsciously actually. Good reminder

[Persephone]

No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.

Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.

[Chae]

Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.

Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

[Persephone]

Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

I don't fully agree, what do you do with Fi PoLR persons? And still they are Fe valuers.

[Adam Strange]

Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

This is absolutely true. Trust, and knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest, is everything.

My first GF, an LSI, and I were having relationship problems. Perhaps she was trying to apply some pressure. She decided to get really drunk with some friends at her place and one of the guys spent the night there. She told me the next day that nothing had happened, that she hadn't cheated, but as soon as I heard that, we were all done. Trust was gone. (It turned out for the best. She's now married to an ethical guy, possibly an EIE.)

One very strong factor in deciding to marry my SLI ex-wife was the sense I got that she was rock-solid faithful, and would always be on my side. (That, plus the fact that I could tell she would be a good mother and had good taste in clothes and furnishings - I can see now that I was subconsciously looking for ESI traits.) And she has been. Even though we are divorced, she still stops by briefly every couple of weeks to say hi, and to ask how I'm doing. We're not getting back together (Adam shudders - the last couple years were not great), but she does still show loyalty and support. It helps that we actually like each other and are friends. Too bad she can't stand living with me. Or maybe it's not too bad, since we both now have a chance to find better partners. She replaced me with a cat, I'm still looking.

[Chae]

The problem I have with that is to imagine having a partner who would work against my sphere of interest.

Recovery is dependent on many factors.

I also disagree with your socionic explanation, both Ne and Ni is capable of seeing how a breakdown in trust could spiral into so many issues in the present or in the future.

So what do you? Does Ni handle it better because they've got the "vision" to see how things will improve in the future? So maybe non Ni types aren't better at it at all, it seems too loose to me to put a socionic handle on a basic thing, which is mutual trust in well any type of partnership I can think of even team work it's required a bit.

If you have troubles imagining, let's switch bodies for a day Very well. When the primary issue is breaking of trust, recovery primarily depends on that. And Ni is not about how things improve, that's Te /plus/ Ni. Ni itself is just a time function: "A leads to B; if _____, then _____." And Ne: it sees all sorts of consequences (the difference is quantity) and acts according to Ti or Fi. Ni is always blocked with Te or Fe so it's either a practical or emotional forecast, but always a one way street unless the lower functions interfere. You don't have to debate trust as a basic team work principle, we are talking about it within romantic ESI boundaries here.

[Adam Strange]

What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.

This is very interesting. As predicted, I worked with this ESI-Fi for four years before I "noticed" him, or figured out that he is ESI-Fi. He seemed like nothing at all. I did notice that we never disagreed, exactly, and that he seemed to like talking with me (we both often work late), but it was no big deal, really. Just another guy, except I get along with him slightly better than I do with most people. Then one day a bunch of guys are 'way down the corridor, and I can hear them discussing pay, and that they thought I make too much money. (I don't. I'm probably below market rate.) The ESI-Fi was there, too, and he just lit into those guys, saying Who else could do that job? but in a tone of voice that was like hitting them with an ax handle. I thought to myself, Whoa, I'm glad I'm not on the wrong end of that. I was also surprised at the force with which he said it, because he never expressed any special liking for me, before that or after.

The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.

So my other job is Parking Lot Attendant, where I park cars on my lawn during football games. I called the ESI-Se woman who cuts my lawn and asked if she was available to cut it, and she said Sure, I'm fully booked today, but how about Monday?, but then she realized that I wanted the grass cut for parking, and she said she'd find time to do it that same day. And she did.
(This is the woman I had asked to the park a year ago, and she said No.)
So the next day, I'm out there on the street, trying to get cars to park in my "lot" when she drives up and I say to her Hi! Thanks for cutting the grass It looks great, and she says I had to do that after dark, you know. And I said, so how much do I owe you? and she said $50 and I gave her $80 and she said You paid me too much and I said You did too good a job and she smiled a really beautiful smile. She has beautiful eyes. And I noticed that she has a bruise under one eye and I said Did your boyfriend beat you up? and she nodded at the Pitbull in the back seat and said "I was just playing with Outlaw" and I thought it was funny that she named her dog "outlaw" because that is how most people think of LIE's. And all this time we're joking around she's smiling and I'm thinking she's really attractive and I'd be an idiot to carry that thought any further, and another car pulls up and wants a parking spot and she breaks eye contact as she puts her car into gear and her face momentarily falls apart into introspection and anxiety and then she's off and I'm standing there and the scalpers across the street are all looking at me instead of hawking their tickets.

[Pole]

.... and I thought it was funny that she named her dog "outlaw" because that is how most people think of LIE's....

Really? I thought they were thought of as nerds or business tycoons. How do people consider LIEs to be outlaws?