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Thread: Your Imago

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Beta deals better with negative emotional expressions than any other quadra. But of course this is a generalization very much.

    Glad it's better now
    Yeah, people change
    Thanks for your input

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    I did your PDF exercise too, @Cassandra . It was great. Thank you!!

    The first set of results are the composite traits of past romantic partners, from the PDF exercise you linked. The second set are based on the childhood influences one from the OP.



    • Positive (conscious): gorgeous, kind, romantic, friendly, likes animals/nature, refined, intelligent, interested in fantasy, a bit erratic, ambitious, supportive emotionally
    • Negative (unconscious): erratic/aggressive, critical, irrational, hot/cold ego/self-esteem

      Positive: reliable, pragmatic, effective, effortful, gentle, intuitive, supportive, gorgeous, humorous

      Negative: chaotic, horrific, toxic, emotionally disturbed/disturbing, emotional vampire, manipulative, unapologetic, narcissistic/egotistical, destructive, tyrannical, explosive, irrational, internally inconsistent/dissonant, inefficient, over-worrying, dismissive, hostile, unintelligent, incognizant/unlucid, alienating, imperceptive/unaware, denying, authoritarian


      “What I wanted most as a child and didn’t get was…”
      To be given emotional support and understanding/sanity/clarity

      “As a child, I had these negative feelings over and over again: ….”
      Not understood, unfair, alone to deal with problems, harm self, no escape, unloved, parents don’t love each other, terrorized, manipulated narcissistically, toxic place


  3. #83
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    This could be interesting...

    Composites of my parents and one very important childhood mentor, bold for traits that have had the most impact on me for good or for ill. Things I strive to emulate, things that instinctively piss me off when I see them in others.

    Positive: encouraging my curiosity, intelligent, socratic, friendly, welcoming, realistic, optimistic, success-oriented, fun-loving, understanding, relaxed, philosophical, community-oriented
    Negative: overprotective, smothering, distant, callous, smug, hyper-critical, manipulative, gaslight-y, compulsive liar, narcissistic, unfaithful, alcoholic, image-obsessed, condescending, violent anger issues, literally no connection to reality
    What I wanted most as a child and didn't get was: an actual close friendship without drama and stupid social status-based squabbling holding it back, different parents and classmates, a letter from Hogwarts to make sense of everything
    As a child I had these negative feelings over and over again: suicidal and/or homicidal thoughts, thoughts of burning things, thoughts of running away, retreating into my room to read for hours, going off into the woods with my dog to just be alone and escape into my imagination

    I'm a very unrepresentative example because my parents are both barrels of issues. Dad has subclinical antisocial tendencies, also serious rage issues that led to physically abusing mom on the regular. Mom has probably clinical narcissism (I have never, ever heard her say "I'm sorry" and she will stone-wall and belittle you rather than admit she's wrong), and later developed schizophrenia which leads her to believe she's literally God.

    Taken as a whole, the composite sounds to me like an unhealthy EIE 2, which is possibly my mom's type. That or ESE. The 2-est I'm usually interested in is the "I was an awkward outcast so I have a thing for welcoming and encouraging the beaten down" thing you get from a lot of my fellow 6s, I do have some mild attraction to EIE girls (not so much guys) but it pales in comparison to my huge one for xEIs. For the record: dad is an SLE-Ti 8w9, the childhood mentor was ESE or IEE and probably a 7w6.

    In girls I find myself most attracted to: 4, 9, 7w6. Beta NF, SEI, IEE, SEE. In guys: 6, 8, 7w8. Se-ego, LSE.

    Any other 6s had effed up childhoods? Because I've noticed a lot of us have.
    Last edited by Nanooka; 06-08-2017 at 07:48 AM.
    Maybe, possibly ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/so, 641 tritype
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Could it be you are Type 4 in the Enneagram?
    As far as I know, it is a very common theme for Type 4s to feel like they are the "alien" or "black sheep" in their family.
    (I absolutely relate to that, for instance.)
    This is probably not related, but since we recently talked a lot about being e4 I resonated with what you wrote.
    Last edited by dot; 07-17-2017 at 09:00 AM.

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    This is a relatively old thread, but I'm not trying to start a discussion, I'm just adding a note to the information about Imagos, and this seems to be the best place for that.

    I'm finding out just how important the Imago is for attraction to occur. I've dated women whom I thought were good matches to me, but they didn't see things that way. One ESI told me that she didn't find me attractive, but she liked my SLI son immediately upon meeting him. I later learned that her father is SLI, so she is obviously operating more on Imago than on functional compatibility. (This pissed me off, incidentally.)

    I've said here before that my preference in ESI's is a woman who is tall and thin. Since my ex-wife and all my significant GF's met these criteria, I assume that this is my Imago. I even rejected an ESI who liked me because she is neither tall nor thin. I'm pretty sure she was terminally pissed off at my failure to see how functionally good we were together. Which, I admit, we were.

    I recently met an ESI who is both tall and thin and I immediately started vetting her for wife material. (She is less enthusiastic about me. I wonder why? Lol.) This immediate, strong reaction to her hasn't happened with any of the other ESI's I've dated. The most I can say is that I really liked the other ones and got along with them tremendously well. But did I see them immediately as permanent, stick-around-forever possibilities? Not exactly. It was more of a wait-and-see-if-something-develops thing.

    Most Imagos probably take their form from our parents. For example, my father is SLI and I married an SLI. My mother is LSE, and my LII sister married an LSE.

    I've been wondering for some time where my own preferences came from. There is my SLI parent connection, of course, and my attraction to IEI's is almost certainly due to the love I received from my IEI aunt, but where does the "tall and thin" come from?

    I realized this morning that my best friend from HS, an ESI with whom I weathered the usual HS stuff, was both tall and thin. He was kind of dorky, but that didn't matter in the slightest, since I am, too. Lol.

    The question now is, knowing this, can I overcome it?

    "Imago" is an irrational preference made by the lizard-brain and it interferes with optimal choices. If my HS buddy had looked different, I'd be off on some other path right now and would still be missing the essentials.

  6. #86
    kickass crybaby mrrrmaid's Avatar
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    Cool thread bump. To do the original task:

    What I wanted most as a child and didn't get was
    As a child I had these negative feelings over and over again:


    Positive: fun, outdoorsy, ambitious, intelligent, caring, active
    Negative: Bad tempered, judgemental, not cool, dismissive
    What I wanted most as a child but didn't get was: respect
    As a child I had these negative feelings over and over again: patronised, judged, 'black sheep' syndrome

    I felt patronised as a lot as a child (not necessarily by my parents, though sometimes it was. A lot of times by other adults but my parents would usually agree with them / not stick up for me which felt like betrayal even if they were usually more accepting). In my early years (0-8) I thought everyone talked to me like I was stupid and when I was older (8-13) I would earnestly express myself only to have adults incl. my parents be dismissive. Again, it always seemed like they weren't listening to me and just assuming they knew more than me, which they obviously did but when they act like that after I'd just said something profound and personal it felt isolating and majorly disrespectful. They'd laugh at what I said rather than explain why they thought different.

    I also did the imago face composite of a bunch of dudes I find attractive if anyone wants to VI

    morphimago.jpeg
    Based on popular typings on this forum of the celebrities I used, he's made up of EIE, IEI, LII & LSI.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    @mrrrmaid, your imago looks like Orlando Bloom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @mrrrmaid, your imago looks like Orlando Bloom.
    Does he?!? I didn't use OB in there. But he was my first crush (in Lord of the Rings, long blonde hair and all) so maybe there's something behind that
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
    - Carrie Fisher

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    ew.... that stare just shouts ima derpy ass creep and will follow you around till the day you die with the purpose of making you uncomfortable 24/7


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    Yeah baby, give me that love nectar.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    female versions too


    (so many 00's celebs. haven't thought about Agyness Deyn in years)
    @hag Being heterosexual, the male imagi did not affect a response in me. However I can comment on the female ones.

    The first woman looks rather seductive, flirtatious and volitional. I suspect she would be likely to show sexual initiative.
    The second woman is also seductive, but callous and calculating, so I am not surprised to see you react with an "ew". Women like that try to forment intrigue for personal gain, so you are wise to avoid them.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-11-2018 at 04:01 AM.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    I thought as an exercise, it would be worth trying to see if I could also notice patterns in the male faces.

    This imago is of a most obnoxious and narcissistic individual.



    And this one is of a fun-loving, enthusiastic and cheerful individual.

    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    Female: Nemesis



    Female: Romance

    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




  14. #94
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    Isn’t that Audrey Hepburn? I think she’s IEE.

    (Maybe it’s her Ne. )

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    Natalie Portman weirds me out, too. I just could not understand why Darth Vader thought she was attractive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    Ralph Fiennes?
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
    - Carrie Fisher

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    Yeah I find Natalie Portman irritating.

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    Audrey Hepburn might be IEE (Infantile) and my Benefactor, Grace Kelly is probably sx-last and kind of chilly and is very probably my SLI (Caregiver) Supervisor*, and Natalie Portman just looks disconnected from the world somehow, like she's an octopus pretending to be a human.
    All of these women are conventionally beautiful and personally (to me) not warm and attractive.

    *She's quite a bit like my ex-wife, actually.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-11-2018 at 02:37 PM.

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    I think N. Portman is attractive, most than a many in Hollywood.
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 10-11-2018 at 04:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    I think N. Portman is attractive, most than a lot in Hollywood.
    @Aki, what do you think of the lead singer in this video?


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    @Adam Strange I don't think shes attractive. She freaks me out a bit and looks pretty masculine. Her face expressions reminds me of Fe in ESE, somehow exaggerated (I know its intentional probably, but anyway). Reminds me a lot of Anne Hathaway and Liv Tyler a bit.
    Why?
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 10-11-2018 at 04:20 PM.

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    Women I consider physically attractive:
    N. Portman (IEE mb), Alizee (xEE), Marion Cotillard (IEE), Shirley Manson (EIE).
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 10-11-2018 at 04:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    interesting...

    I like him as Heathcliff [ILI character imo]

    he has a similar face shape to your imago - or at least that's who I saw when I looked at the morph. Though he has a slightly 'darker' vibe - maybe the beta NF in him?
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    my thoughts exactly.

    Grace Kelly - mannequin vibes. she seems like she would be a real lady in public, but behind closed doors she kicks puppies or something.
    If she's like my ex, then she's exactly the same behind closed doors. Polite, proper, somewhat distant.

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    I think Audrey Hepburn is LSE-Si. I think Marion Cotillard is ESE 4w5

    I think to get around your imago is all the painstaingly hard work of being the wonderful parent you love or want to yourself and being the person you want to date yourself. Then you can actually date someone not who will be the you that you would like to be but who you, fully whole and present for yourself, make a choice to be with because of their own qualities that they bring. Not easy but maybe not impossible...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaine View Post
    I think Marion Cotillard is ESE 4w5
    Nope. Ne and Fi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    Nope. Ne and Fi

    I disagree, she is C so she has Ne going on but she is ESE IMO. To be honest IEEs are not the best type as performers. They may get away with some musical theatre and the odd actor but we often lack vocal control, we are too aware of what is oign on around to focus and we are too empathetic to cut out our feelings. Most good actors are ESE, EII, and LSE and LIE. I think it is easier for J types to focus and tune out the rest.

    What you posted before about IEE being one of the most open as well as INFP is true and it works against both of them when trying to perform. Sure IEE's have the uppoer hand becasue they are extraverted but it's still against their grain which is to be taking in not producing. I notice a lot of people type famous LSEs and ESEs who have passion and quirkiness as IEEs when really we are so crap at Si we are bad imitators in that sense. It is not our strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaine View Post
    I disagree, she is C so she has Ne going on but she is ESE IMO. To be honest IEEs are not the best type as performers. They may get away with some musical theatre and the odd actor but we often lack vocal control, we are too aware of what is oign on around to focus and we are too empathetic to cut out our feelings. Most good actors are ESE, EII, and LSE and LIE. I think it is easier for J types to focus and tune out the rest.
    the only other possible type that I see for her is EIE. I know personally two ESEs (one is my mom another a good friend), Cotillard is nothing like ESE. On the other hand my Husband is IEE and she's more like him than ESE females. And I don't think that career path is definite to type someone. Anyway, according theory EIE is the actor, but interestingly, the archetype for SLI Jean Gabin was an actor too. So, I don't think career path is a valid way to type someone. You are free to think whatever her type is ofc.
    The vocal control and else maybe is true for you but that doesnt mean is a rule or trait for IEEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    the only other possible type that I see for her is EIE. I know personally two ESEs (one is my mom another a good friend), Cotillard is nothing like ESE. On the other hand my Husband is IEE and she's more like him than ESE females. And I don't think that career path is definite to type someone. Anyway, according theory EIE is the actor, but interestingly, the archetype for SLI Jean Gabin was an actor too. So, I don't think career path is a valid way to type someone. You are free to think whatever her type is ofc.
    The vocal control and else maybe is true for you but that doesnt mean is a rule or trait for IEEs.

    Not just vocal control, control of her outer movements, awareness of what her body is doing, she is smooth, IEEs are looser and simply more interested in the ideas than in awareness of their physical movements and how they are coming across. Vanessa Paradis or Keira Knightly (IEEs) get away with performing but they looked like models to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guillaine View Post
    Not just vocal control, control of her outer movements, awareness of what her body is doing, she is smooth, IEEs are looser and simply more interested in the ideas than in awareness of their physical movements and how they are coming across. Vanessa Paradis or Keira Knightly (IEEs) get away with performing but they looked like models to begin with.
    You talk as if ppl don't study to become actors, plus what you say has nothing to do with acting. Keira is not IEE.
    Vanessa is more similar to Cotillard than Keira. Then, IEEs have 4DFe too. It means they have a good use of the element. They can't be as you describe. Thats a Fi type mb, but not one with good use Fe like IEE.
    IEE, ESE, EIE and SEE are types with good use of Fe. SEE and IEE value Fi over Fe, still they use it naturally anyway.
    Sensing has nothing to do with good or bad acting skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    You talk as if ppl don't study to become actors, plus what you say has nothing to do with acting. Keira is not IEE.
    Vanessa is more similar to Cotillard than Keira. Then, IEEs have 4DFe too. It means they have a good use of the element. They can't be as you describe. Thats a Fi type mb, but not one with good use Fe like IEE.
    IEE, ESE, EIE and SEE are types with good use of Fe. SEE and IEE value Fi over Fe, still they use it naturally anyway.
    Sensing has nothing to do with good or bad acting skills.

    Well I think sensing has a lot to do with being good at performing physically using body and voice in controlled ways.

    I know people study and there are actors of every type surely. but I see a lot of people typing IEEs as I said in other types and not understanding about IEEs, yes we can express emotion it's useful. But with producing types it's natural for them to be making decisions and cutting out other options from moment to moment- I think that assists on a performance level. Whereas IEEs keep entertaining heaps of options.
    On the other hand something like photography both SLIs and IEEs excel because they are naturally going with the flow, sponataneous, flexible, not tied into any set way and in different ways their functions naturally assist that kind of activity. it's not set in stone they are trends that I observe.

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    Damn I just realised my imago is D type. All the really hard falls I have felt after things not working out with them D-SLI when I want it to so badly. Also I think my imago is selfish and unavailable. Dammit it is really strong. Neither of my parents are D but maybe it's just they feel strong enough to rescue me from it all and break through the shield of lies or something. D-SLI are so attractive becasue unlike H types they are more alpha male-ish pursuing their lives, active, take charge, slightly extroverted, don't want to speculate much, and are not trying to please others. (these are generalisations and personal opinions of course).

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    yes, we are more attractive than H. We are more alpha male-ish.

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    Maybe you're right, for the general population. I seem to like them more than they like me I feel. It's just that I have got really strong Fi over the last few years and and kind of seeking strong Te but at the same time very irrational so that combination is very appealing to me. I don't mind anymore being with someone who prioritises work a lot, doesn't intimidate me like it would have in the past, I like to be with someone who is pursueing things even if I see them less. Only thing is it's noticable that we are both contacting and that there is not as much of a feedback loop both are waiting for the other to respond with more. Interesting though.
    To be honest sometimes it feels like a SEI H has better Te than a SLI H...buuut they don't value Fi.
    Last edited by Guillaine; 10-27-2018 at 09:55 AM.

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    + diligent, affectionate, protective, funny, physically active
    - overbearing, financially irresponsible, emotional reasoning, lying, inconsistent, passive aggressive, numbing, indirect

    What I wanted most as a child but didn't get: responsibility and purpose

    As a child I had these negative feelings over and over again: being useless, not fitting in, being a failure, being helpless, being fragile
    Low Value Robot

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    Probably will take the test later. Pretty much always thought that mine was basically Esmeralda from the Hunchback of Dotre Dame or Charlize Theron.


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    Negative: Violent, neglectful, dismissive, unloving, uncaring, bullying, abrasive, sexually inappropriate, rude, mean, unfair, cold, vulgar.

    Positive: Moral fairness, disciplined, hard-working, conscientious, responsible, wise.

    What I wanted most as a child but did not get was... love, recognition, support.

    As a child I had these negative feelings over and over again... loneliness, hatred, contempt, disagreement.

    My parents affected me with all of their traits. I was skilled at learning ftom everything, good or bad.

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    How does this hypothesis/model of relationships coincide or fit with dual theory?

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    I find my "Imago" neatly correlates with EIE insofar as one's imago is their ideal partner.

    All of the character traits I find attractive are embodied in this type: intense, authoritative, magnanimous, arrogant, passionate, well-spoken, jealous, etc... as well as their darker aspects.
    "hag is the elizabeth bathory of t16t" – Luminous Lynx

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    Quote Originally Posted by franktheplank View Post
    How does this hypothesis/model of relationships coincide or fit with dual theory?
    Why Duality Is Not As Common As It Should Be

     
    "We cannot help who we are attracted to. Earlier I have shortly and roughly expanded upon the importance of Physical Attractiveness. Every individual has their own physical preferences. Also, every individual has their own personality preferences – and no, they are not all related to their Dual! Those preferences can very well be opposite to one’s Dual! How is that possible?

    How could we be attracted to a personality opposite to the one that is the most suitable to us? The culprit lies in your early upbringing. How you were being treated as a child by your caregivers and/or similar has an underestimated impact on what kind of personality (and looks!) you will be attracted to as an adult. Several personality and looks characteristics will be stored in your unconscious mind in the form of an image of your ideal partner, your “Imago“.

    Following that, if you grew up with parents and/or other family members etc. who were (entirely) different from your Dual, it is highly likely you won’t feel as attracted to your Dual as to certain other personality types! Furthermore, many or perhaps even most married people will have married their “Imago” more or less – without knowing! If you don’t believe me, just look around you and take note of people’s marriage partners and their early caregivers (usually their parents or other family members). How closely do they resemble them? You may notice that someone has married someone who looks exactly like their grandmother when she was younger, or that someone’s husband suffers from a drug addiction just like their father did, or that someone’s wife is the exact same Sociotype as their mother. Little commonalities like that point towards the fact that the person has married their “Imago”.

    What if someone’s “Imago” is a bad match for them – not just Typology-wise, but also in regards to mental health and so forth?
    In that case, they will have to find someone who they are reasonably attracted to, though not as strongly as to someone who is closer to their “Imago”. Some people actually believe the “Imago” should be avoided altogether, because being with them will eventually unearth all your insecurities from when you were a child, even when they are a good person and/or good match for you. Personally I would not advise that, because I believe feeling uniquely attracted to someone is important, but I can understand why someone would make that decision, especially if they have had a history of being attracted to abusive people.

    In short, your “Imago” won’t automatically be/look like your Dual (and likely not be that much like them at all), and that is normal. It is your choice whether you trade in attraction for Socionics compatibility or not, and to what amount. Everyone does that on some level, but beyond a certain one, you will very likely enter into unsatisfying territories. I would not advise to trade in attraction and “similarity” for the ideal of Duality altogether. While that may make your interaction rather smooth, you would miss that unique “spark” and/or possibly feel like you are not on the same page when it comes to life goals and such.

    All in all, by now you can tell the reason behind why Duality is not as common as it should be is much more complex than one might think.
    Aspects like Proximity, Exposure, Physical Attractiveness, Similarity and the “Imago” all play a role when it comes to who you will choose as your partner.
    If you happen to find someone who fits all those factors to your satisfaction, and they are your Dual, you truly have “gotten lucky”. Most people won’t have this kind of luck. But, it very well might not be such an issue anyway. As long as your partner fulfills the aforementioned criteria, is a reasonably good match in Socionics (read this for more on that), and mentally healthy for the most part, you will be able to find happiness with someone who is not your Dual. In the sea of relationships, most of those that last a life-time are not Duality – and that’s okay."
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
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    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



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