Quote Originally Posted by seriousguy View Post
Specific things? If I tell someone to give me the glass of water, it will be Te+ and if I explain the steps then it will be Ti+? What about Te- then? Which kinds of orders require Te-? General orders? Give me examples.
Weighing/speculating pros and cons when you are going to buy a product. "Do I a really need it? Will it be useful? What's the quality of the product..."

A programmer gives instructions

Thinking about a scenario at work, and then deciding what aspects are favorable

I see what you mean, and I can relate to the forgetting about Te- after few seconds or minutes. Maybe one can use the vital function if forced from the outside? (in an example of chess, because in this case one MUST use Ni+Te- considering that these two functions are required for strategizing and taking the best action)
What do you mean by "force from the outside"?

Using mental functions unconsciously? How?
I am not sure... this is speculation... but i think IEI uses some aspects of Fe+ unconsciously while being focused on Ni-.

What about ILI's 1D Se+? How it differs from IEI's 2D Se+? Give me examples.
... and IEI's Se+ is conscious, which is also an important factor. SeFi is about actually meeting and interacting with people. There is no doubt that IEI is more socially active than ILI. A 1D function oversimplifies... it is black and white, so ILI either pays no attention at all to his girlfriend/friend or he is very intense/thoughtful. IEI is not extreme in this way when it comes to relationships.

Also, in your Model D, an LII would have 4D Se+, but 1D Se-?
No, LII has 1D Se+ and 4D Se-.

They would know which person can benefit them, but they have zero skills when it comes to pushing people, right?
I don't think Se- is about pushing people. A type with 3D/4D Se- uses appropriate defensive methods in the physical world. LII's Se- looks like LSE's Se-.

Yes, I meant they naturally use the aggressive tactics to get what they want, and live in here and now.
ok

So... you are saying IEIs are capable to strategize or know about the best/most efficient methods, but unable to follow through?
yes... in most cases.

Let's say I am advising my colleagues that they should study from xyz books in the given time as that will help them "outsmart" other colleagues. What functions would I be using?
You are constantly using many different functions, so it is not always that easy to discern a particular function. But you giving them some books and saying "read this", that would be Te+.

How are you calling Te- a 4D function for an IEI when the dimensionality is supposed to be applied to an isolated function?
Because Te- IS an isolated function. I didn't mean it like that. See my previous comment regarding this.

Model A doesn't have -+ signs,
"your model is nothing but an alternative perspective to Model A"
This is contradictory.

but dimensionality and consciousness/unconsciousness, if you map functions to Model A's position / blocks, you would get (for an IEI):
So, basically you further distributed the 1D-4D dimensionality to -+ signs, making it two Model As.
4D: Ni- (ego), Fi+ (id)
3D: Fe+ (ego) Ne- (id)
2D: Si- (super-ego) Ti+ (super-id)
1D: Te+ (super-ego) Se- (super-id)
No, because IEI´s Ne+ is more obvious than Ne-. +/- doesn't work in Model A.

Btw, are you sure that Ne+ is 4D and conscious, and Ne- is 3D and unconscious for an IEI? Can you give me real-life examples?
You must also distinguish between main functions and secondary functions. You are a very introverted subtype, right?

Ne is about humor. IEI and ILE get along very well for a reason. They share the same sense of humor. You usually don't see "ENFp-ness" in the IEI. For example, Craig Ferguson's humor probably doesn't attract you.

In Model A, for example, it is assumed that Ignoring function is used along with Demonstrative, so Ne- belongs to super-id.
No, see comment above about +/-.

Conscious here would mean able to use it constantly (and not for just a moment or "30 seconds" as you put it earlier). Ne+Ti- belongs to ego block, right? (this is why IEI can look very much like an LII or ILE)
Yes.

By "an alternative perspective", I mean that your Model doesn't necessarily contradicts Model A (similarly how Model G doesn't contradict it and seems to explain functions in a different manner... internalities, externatilies, etc.,) or am I wrong?
It doesn't contradict the basic structure of Model A. However, Model D contradicts some aspects of Model A. IEI's Fi is not always 4D, and it is not always Id etc.

Because it seems to me that dimensionality was supposed to apply on isolated functions not the -+ signs formed through combination of functions, so here applying the dimensionality to -+ signs would only lead to confusion, for example, you haven't explained yet how Te- is 4D for an IEI... in comparison to which type? You said strategizing requires taking decisions, thus Te- would be used, but how that's the sign of 4D? How to quantify it? For example, I can see how Fe is 4D for an SEE and 1D for an ILI who are unable to make facial expressions in a normative way. How +Fe is 4D for an ILI? If it's just a matter of strategizing about social issues, then it doesn't make sense to call Fe+ 4D at all, just say that Ni- (or Ni+) is 4D. It just seems to me you arbitrary applied this dimensionality to functions in order to either create the symmetry or just to match the standard.
Facial expressions is related to Fe-.

No, because strategy is not solely about Ni. Any strategy involves decisions. You cannot just visualize a scenario/problem (Ni). If the strategy is about subjects/people then it is NiFe or FeNi.

A "valued" function would be the one we can use with psychological comfort and has positive effects on our psyche, so the weak valued functions, even if they are hard to use on our own (unless we put so much efforts), if supplied from the outside, we feel good about it.
I disagree strongly with this. It is simply not true that IEI's OWN usage of Fi (in Model A) or Fi+ (in Model D) causes negative effects on our psyche. It is other people's excessive usage (from your point of view) that causes irritation. Especially when aspects of (your) Super-Ego functions are expressed verbally.

Ni+ is ignoring because it's unconscious (or subconscious)?
It is called Ignoring because IEI tends to igore it. (Some subtypes of) IEI uses Ne+ a lot, so Ni+ must be ignored. They "disturb" each other. And consequently Ni+ is pushed into unconsciousness.

Did Ni+ get the + sign because it is formed by the combination of NiTe?
Yes. The information aspects.

"Scenario" seems to be coming from Ni+. Also, Te- is used with Ni+, right? So, when an IEI is playing the chess, he is basically relying on the vital functions?
Yes.

What about duality? SLE ego block would be Se- Ti+, second ego would be Si+ Fe-, right? So, they would give 3D Ti+ (practical "how tos", rules) to an IEI and get 3D Ti- in return? (because their Ti-... abstract models... would be 2D) SLE do not have their Ti- models as sophisticated as an IEI?
That's accurate.

Also, tell me which functions are accepting/producing according to you, is Ne+ producing for an IEI?
No. Ne+, Se+, Si+ and Ni+ are accepting functions for an IEI.