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Thread: Experience w narcissists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    That's one sexy shirt Sam's wearing.
    Lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    That's one sexy v-neck Sam's wearing.
    I am sure he thinks it is.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Disorder is what makes suffer you or other people near. All what fits to medical criterias is such. Even if noone near have problem in some moment, a person with "disorder" is thought to make a problem in the future with significantly more probability than average "normal" human.
    If the probability or degree of the harm is low it's never called as disorder, but character's accentuation, extravagance, etc.

    I don't know a person with such official diagnosis. But I saw people close to it. All were hard to be called as honest. One of such people had episodes of fraud and was under court.
    I have no idea what you said.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    I've had close encounters with these kind of people (narcs)

    Narcissists are needy, you need to constanctly provide for their balance. You keep adjusting adjusting. Otherwise they are crying like a baby or getting in a sort of rage.
    Nowadays I recognize these needy people (some full blown narcissists, others the often called narcissist but not quite completely). I just leave the scene. They have nothing to offer but chaos in my life.
    It's different when you meet them at work, you can't escape. For me personally, I escape, I rather live on the streets then work for a narcissist. I once told my boss, get the narc out or I am out, then they threw the narc out, they had lots of complaints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I've had close encounters with these kind of people (narcs)

    Narcissists are needy, you need to constanctly provide for their balance. You keep adjusting adjusting. Otherwise they are crying like a baby or getting in a sort of rage.
    Nowadays I recognize these needy people (some full blown narcissists, others the often called narcissist but not quite completely). I just leave the scene. They have nothing to offer but chaos in my life.
    It's different when you meet them at work, you can't escape. For me personally, I escape, I rather live on the streets then work for a narcissist. I once told my boss, get the narc out or I am out, then they threw the narc out, they had lots of complaints.
    This is very succinct and helpful. I believe I have seen this behavior before.
    My narc recognition skills are poor at the moment, though. Having a Narcissistic mother makes this behavior seem normal to me, to some degree. What do you look for? What are the early warning signs? How fast can you identify them?

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    i thought a lot of narcissists make you feel like you need *them*?

    https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/...ide-your-head/

    1. they flatter you and tell you you're *everything* to them (this encourages you to give them what you are, which is the set up for the narcissist to effectively tear you down later. the narcissist also sets this up so you are in some sense "addicted" to him/her. they prey on your weaknesses and become the one who can "fill" them. they find ways to get you to be dependent on them)

    2. they withdraw all the attention and affection bit by bit, and you become the needy one trying to figure out what happened (they will tell you how needy you are. this process lasts as long as you hold out hope of getting the person you thought you knew back; and you feel worse and worse about yourself as it goes on. you take their criticisms to heart because your behavior *is* now unstable so you can't really argue otherwise. *you* seem to be the problem with the relationship)

    3. they abandon you and make sure you know you are worthless (the narcissist confirms his/her own self-worth by having destroyed yours. you are left believing far less of yourself, and if you haven't caught on to what the narcissist is yet, you will feel unworthy of their greatness)

    it's almost like they hated you for what you were in the beginning (envied you) and now they've put you in your proper place. the narcissist is supreme again in self-image and no longer threatened by the likes of you.

    ps: i don't think the narcissist necessarily plans this pattern out. it unfolds as the narcissist tries to meet his/her own psychological needs. good targets probably share some similarities with the narcissist in the way i summarized it. the narcissist is so good at stage 1 because s/he has the same holes; only for the narcissist it is like this immense gaping craving that can *seemingly* never be satisfied enough.
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-14-2016 at 06:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i thought a lot of narcissists make you feel like you need *them*?

    https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/...ide-your-head/

    1. they flatter you and tell you you're *everything* to them (this encourages you to give them what you are, which is the set up for the narcissist to effectively tear you down later. the narcissist also sets this up so you are in some sense "addicted" to him/her. they prey on your weaknesses and become the one who can "fill" them. they find ways to get you to be dependent on them)

    2. they withdraw all the attention and affection bit by bit, and you become the needy one trying to figure out what happened (they will tell you how needy you are. this process lasts as long as you hold out hope of getting the person you thought you knew back; and you feel worse and worse about yourself as it goes on. you take their criticisms to heart because your behavior *is* now unstable so you can't really argue otherwise. *you* seem to be the problem with the relationship)

    3. they abandon you and make sure you know you are worthless (the narcissist confirms his/her own self-worth by having destroyed yours. you are left believing far less of yourself, and if you haven't caught on to what the narcissist is yet, you will feel unworthy of their greatness)

    it's almost like they hated you for what you were in the beginning (envied you) and now they've put you in your proper place. the narcissist is supreme again in self-image and no longer threatened by the likes of you.

    ps: i don't think the narcissist necessarily plans this pattern out. it unfolds as the narcissist tries to meet his/her own psychological needs. good targets probably share some similarities with the narcissist in the way i summarized it. the narcissist is so good at stage 1 because s/he has the same holes; only for the narcissist it is like this immense gaping craving that can *seemingly* never be satisfied enough.
    This sounds spot on from my experience. And the reason it is extremely difficult for the victim to recognize what's going on is because it's done very stealthy and gradually. They have done the same thing over and over again, so they've had time to perfect their craft and become masters at executing their manipulative ploy. Sadism is one of the key traits of these mentally deficient creatures. The greater the pain and suffering they inflict on others, the greater the pleasure they derive from it.

    One of the biggest mistakes one can make with a narcissist is trying to make sense of and justify their actions by putting themselves in their shoes. If you're at least mildly sound mentally, it's not going to happen.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This is very succinct and helpful. I believe I have seen this behavior before.
    My narc recognition skills are poor at the moment, though. Having a Narcissistic mother makes this behavior seem normal to me, to some degree. What do you look for? What are the early warning signs? How fast can you identify them?
    You might find these helpful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmZZGO9FoMA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP9JShyXAc
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Well, they just seem very charming and entrancing at first. Very 'cool' or whatever, like they draw you in by their interesting-ness. But then they start emotionally and psychologically abusing you, all with a smile on their face. They are glib and smug and don't ever meet you half way or any way really to where you are going, but they often give this illusion that they do, or are some messiah to the human race. They also don't seem to know what no or stop means... they lack boundaries between themselves and other people- and may not understand how to effectively change their tone of speech to the person they are talking to. It's often very sexually thrilling though, but at the price of emotional and mental health. Narcissism I think is this scale, with Hollywood ppl having a lot of it and Midwestern losers not having enough.

    They also kind of go back and forth between being 'faux-loving' and affectionate/charming and abusing all at once. A sadist without narcisissm lacks the charm to do this. A narcissist is a lot like an effeminate gay man that can hurt your feelings and play mind games on you, not the soft fuzzy kind you wanna protect. But they wear many masks. Narcissists basically trap you in with a false sort of love, this poisonous honey- and then try to drain u dry like a vampire once they have you in their clutches. All while making it look like they are some sorta 'hero' to the public, and people are often not very emotionally intelligent to sense what they are up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i thought a lot of narcissists make you feel like you need *them*?

    https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/...ide-your-head/

    1. they flatter you and tell you you're *everything* to them (this encourages you to give them what you are, which is the set up for the narcissist to effectively tear you down later. the narcissist also sets this up so you are in some sense "addicted" to him/her. they prey on your weaknesses and become the one who can "fill" them. they find ways to get you to be dependent on them)

    2. they withdraw all the attention and affection bit by bit, and you become the needy one trying to figure out what happened (they will tell you how needy you are. this process lasts as long as you hold out hope of getting the person you thought you knew back; and you feel worse and worse about yourself as it goes on. you take their criticisms to heart because your behavior *is* now unstable so you can't really argue otherwise. *you* seem to be the problem with the relationship)

    3. they abandon you and make sure you know you are worthless (the narcissist confirms his/her own self-worth by having destroyed yours. you are left believing far less of yourself, and if you haven't caught on to what the narcissist is yet, you will feel unworthy of their greatness)

    it's almost like they hated you for what you were in the beginning (envied you) and now they've put you in your proper place. the narcissist is supreme again in self-image and no longer threatened by the likes of you.

    ps: i don't think the narcissist necessarily plans this pattern out. it unfolds as the narcissist tries to meet his/her own psychological needs. good targets probably share some similarities with the narcissist in the way i summarized it. the narcissist is so good at stage 1 because s/he has the same holes; only for the narcissist it is like this immense gaping craving that can *seemingly* never be satisfied enough.
    This is sad, but totally true.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    @Maritsa, these are a good intro for how to spot one.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    This sounds spot on from my experience. And the reason it is extremely difficult for the victim to recognize what's going on is because it's done very stealthy and gradually. They have done the same thing over and over again, so they've had time to perfect their craft and become masters at executing their manipulative ploy. Sadism is one of the key traits of these mentally deficient creatures. The greater the pain and suffering they inflict on others, the greater the pleasure they derive from it.
    This is all completely true. Yes, its stealthy and gradual, and like a lobster being put in a pot of cool water and then the heat turning up - you can get "cooked" by the NPD for years and not know it.

    For me, the moment of crisis was realizing that I had been immersed in this for years, living with a man who had this kind of ill will towards me - all the time. Who was not "dense" because of his childhood trauma, as I had concluded. He was in fact not a man who just "didn't get" how bad he made me feel, but instead, he purposefully made me feel bad - that was the goal - the hurt look on my face, my confusion, my feeling paralyzed by a surprise hit - that was what he lived for, to make himself feel good, in a sick, sadistic way. It was not a "misunderstanding" that I had always chalked it up to. I was living with a predator who was preying on me. This was so shocking, this completely different view of my life's struggle, that what followed was the only time in my life I ever had true nightmares. I dreamed I was chased, in a long frightening pursuit, and then choked by a very evil dark presence of a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    One of the biggest mistakes one can make with a narcissist is trying to make sense of and justify their actions by putting themselves in their shoes. If you're at least mildly sound mentally, it's not going to happen.
    Yes, and it seems kind and merciful and human to put yourself in their shoes so that's why you try. They never fit though, try as you may. And try as you may, trying to see it their way just doesn't make sense. Not until someone like Vaknin explains how they are really thinking - and its not like you would dream of thinking at all.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Since many poeple are dicks, the only solution is to find self-worth and stay the fuck away from individuals like that (or tell them to fuck right off once they show their true colors). Easier said than done, particular in instances like at work or once you're attached, but that's truly the only solution - if you don't take care of yourself, nobody else will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This is very succinct and helpful. I believe I have seen this behavior before.
    My narc recognition skills are poor at the moment, though. Having a Narcissistic mother makes this behavior seem normal to me, to some degree. What do you look for? What are the early warning signs? How fast can you identify them?
    well some sign i encountered when there were more narcish attitude people around is that there is this unwritten rule of pat the other ones back. you scratch my back i scratch yours. it's a game and you have to go along. which feels annoying, i'm forced to play along. this is something you feel.

    also when i am with borderlinish people, at some point i'm listening to them and notice i'm getting tired, actually it's the energy they drain from you, you keep giving attention, and they keep taking. by talking they don't give you words or a story, no it's just a bait for you to keep listening and GIVING attention, this drains energy. You can feel this too.

    With narcs it often takes about 3 weeks before you notice you are dealing with someone who is 'somewhat differently wired' than the rest of us. In my office place my coworkers also took about 3 weeks before it became clear. Narcs are seductive and cameleon in the beginning. they also make a little bit to much effort in making friends. but soon after you notice you are not a friend, just someone who's back they scratched, and now they want you to scratch back or else! You also feel you cannot discuss this hidden game they are playing.

    Some narcs also put down the weakest in the group. that is the easyest target and they can thrive by coming out on top. and when they don't put you down you feel like, yes i am liked by this awesome person. but it's just a lure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post


    Her ex had NPD traits.
    I am listening to the first part of this... I would say definitely say her guy was NPD with the games he was playing, juggling girls, and then finally the fact that he withdrew his affection immediately after she became his "official" girlfriend - that's what NPD's always do. Interesting also that my ex was not that attractive to me at first either - but his personality and his devoted attention to me won me over. Then of course I found him attractive. But what made me sure he was NPD is the withdrawal after winning. Once they "have" you, they ignore you, because it was all about "having". Whatever that means, whatever makes the Narcissist feel safe that he has "got" you - perhaps a pregnancy, for me it was our wedding... And its really too bad I did not know about NPD back then, because his devoted romancing won me over.

    The fact that he was still seeing his ex and having special romantic close moments with her is no surprise (and also dating new people) because NPDs hang on to their exes and revisit them and try to reignite them if they need/want that in their life years later. This is have heard about NPDs and it was confirmed in my own experience. Before my es left me he looked for someone else, starting with contacting all his exes and he had a few flirtations going on all at once including his current girlfriend who had the most to offer including falling for his romantic overtures. (I found all this out at once when I found his work email up on the computer and could track the whole relationship to the beginning and see its overlap with the other relationships he was trying to start - apparently he was juggling a few so he could be sure to end up with one when he left us. And I always thought it was a grace of God that this email was left open, that my Guardian Angel led me to the computer that night, because I think I would have been in denial, and I needed to see the whole thing not to be (and not being suspicious, I never woudl have looked ...).

    Well I ended up taking breaks all day in my work and listening to more of this and then finally all of it. I really enjoyed watching and listening to her. Also, the happy ending made it worth listening to. The Lord blessed her with a good, normal man, and I am very happy for her. I am also grateful to the Lord every day for blessing me with a good, normal man to love. Its the best!

    She is not my type, and I don't know what type she is. But I found it really intriguing to observe her unique way of experiencing and responding to and reflecting on her life. It makes me wonder what her type is. I think IxFx is all I can say for sure. She is in touch withe her own feelings for sure. She is way more extroverted and perky talking about it than the EIIs I know, and I am thinkign of one in particular who is really in touch with her feelings and lets them lead and learns from them by knowing them well, like she apparently does -- but she does not come off like INFj to me so I am guessing another IxFx..... and some perkier quadra...

    I think a lot of types especially the female versions of the various types hang on way too long to the wrong ones at times. I suppose, for different reasons for different types, we all wear these stupid blinders sometimes...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Those cakeface bimbos Starfall keeps posting smell like covert narcissists from a distance...

    I didn't watch the videos.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I am listening to the first part of this... I would say definitely say her guy was NPD with the games he was playing, juggling girls, and then finally the fact that he withdrew his affection immediately after she became his "official" girlfriend - that's what NPD's always do. Interesting also that my ex was not that attractive to me at first either - but his personality and his devoted attention to me won me over. Then of course I found him attractive. But what made me sure he was NPD is the withdrawal after winning. Once they "have" you, they ignore you, because it was all about "having". Whatever that means, whatever makes the Narcissist feel safe that he has "got" you - perhaps a pregnancy, for me it was our wedding... And its really too bad I did not know about NPD back then, because his devoted romancing won me over.

    The fact that he was still seeing his ex and having special romantic close moments with her is no surprise (and also dating new people) because NPDs hang on to their exes and revisit them and try to reignite them if they need/want that in their life years later. This is have heard about NPDs and it was confirmed in my own experience. Before my es left me he looked for someone else, starting with contacting all his exes and he had a few flirtations going on all at once including his current girlfriend who had the most to offer including falling for his romantic overtures. (I found all this out at once when I found his work email up on the computer and could track the whole relationship to the beginning and see its overlap with the other relationships he was trying to start - apparently he was juggling a few so he could be sure to end up with one when he left us. And I always thought it was a grace of God that this email was left open, that my Guardian Angel led me to the computer that night, because I think I would have been in denial, and I needed to see the whole thing not to be (and not being suspicious, I never woudl have looked ...).

    Well I ended up taking breaks all day in my work and listening to more of this and then finally all of it. I really enjoyed watching and listening to her. Also, the happy ending made it worth listening to. The Lord blessed her with a good, normal man, and I am very happy for her. I am also grateful to the Lord every day for blessing me with a good, normal man to love. Its the best!

    She is not my type, and I don't know what type she is. But I found it really intriguing to observe her unique way of experiencing and responding to and reflecting on her life. It makes me wonder what her type is. I think IxFx is all I can say for sure. She is in touch withe her own feelings for sure. She is way more extroverted and perky talking about it than the EIIs I know, and I am thinkign of one in particular who is really in touch with her feelings and lets them lead and learns from them by knowing them well, like she apparently does -- but she does not come off like INFj to me so I am guessing another IxFx..... and some perkier quadra...

    I think a lot of types especially the female versions of the various types hang on way too long to the wrong ones at times. I suppose, for different reasons for different types, we all wear these stupid blinders sometimes...
    I thought she had a wonderful story and told it well. I also agree that she's no EII. Too much self concern or care. Seems unnatural though with the heavy makeup for myself. she's is pretty.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  18. #58
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I thought she had a wonderful story and told it well. I also agree that she's no EII. Too much self concern or care. Seems unnatural though with the heavy makeup for myself. she's is pretty.
    She has a certain drama which is entertaining, and charming, and yet sincere and genuine (vs. pure drama). It was a nice share of a slice of her life...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  19. #59
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    ... Seems unnatural though with the heavy makeup for myself....
    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Those cakeface bimbos ... smell like covert narcissists from a distance... I didn't watch the videos.
    Aw, you two are too judgmental. But I guess that's life. My husband once talked to a neighboring shop owner about another shop owner - a she had a dress store. The (male) shop owner made a comment to my husband about how well-turned out this woman always looked. My husband replied that yes but she sure made him feel badly turned-out in comparison. The other shop owner said he had a point...

    This woman is pretty and she does look picture-perfect. With a contrast off-putting personality that would be a problem. But she is genuine and nice to look at.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    *poof*

    The other day @sushi asked what people should do in their twenties. I have a suggestion to add to my answer there: learn the signs of NPD in others and avoid them -- especially avoid putting yourself in a position of depending on them professionally, emotionally, or in any other way.
    Last edited by SongOfSapphire; 07-29-2016 at 05:29 PM.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by SongOfSapphire View Post
    *poof*

    The other day @sushi asked what people should do in their twenties. I have a suggestion to add to my answer there: learn the signs of NPD in others and avoid them -- especially avoid putting yourself in a position of depending on them professionally, emotionally, or in any other way.
    I would extend this to personality disorders in general. I'm not saying all people with various PDs should (or even can) be avoided, but that you need to have your eyes open. Even if you've seen it a lot, it still might not be evident at first.

    Also recommend learning the concept of shadow syndromes -- they seem to have had their popular heyday, but it's still useful information.

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    I found this article informative: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...gns-narcissism

    - Narcissists can apparently be generous (although the act itself may be a manifestation of narcissism, a way of making them feel good about themselves)
    - They tend to ignore or denigrate what others are saying to them.
    - Everything is about them.
    - They believe they are the exception to rules.
    - They consider the concerns expressed by others as personal attacks to be countered with their own personal attacks.
    - They tend to think they are always right and everybody else is wrong.
    - They tend to be quick to anger, in which cases it is always somebody else's fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I found this article informative: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...gns-narcissism

    - Narcissists can apparently be generous (although the act itself may be a manifestation of narcissism, a way of making them feel good about themselves)
    - They tend to ignore or denigrate what others are saying to them.
    - Everything is about them.
    - They believe they are the exception to rules.
    - They consider the concerns expressed by others as personal attacks to be countered with their own personal attacks.
    - They tend to think they are always right and everybody else is wrong.
    - They tend to be quick to anger, in which cases it is always somebody else's fault.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Narcissists tend to have groups of acolytes where the group has some hidden "truth" or shared interest that centres around the narcissist. The hidden truth or shared interest may seem on the surface to be somewhat independent of the narcissist, although the narcissist typically claims some level of exceptionality to understanding the "truth" or in their expertise at the shared interest. Narcissists can treat their loved ones, friends...pets etc. as extensions of their selves: often, love in such relationships is like a mirror. Narcissists are especially prone to seeing the glory or success (even things like how beautiful they look, or how expensive their clothes are) of their loved ones as their own.

    Even somewhat indisputable facts are often not enough to deal with narcissists, including accounts of their own words. They will dispute even those, saying that you have fabricated a case against them, and use the evidence of your dissatisfaction as proof that you have a vendetta against them, thus nothing you say has an validity. They might also say that "I'm not like that now", and accuse you of muck-racking, thus gaining an instant victory in their mind. Alternatively, they may freely accept the charge with a general "So what?" demeanour, which may seem rather leftfield, and of course, is a rather underhand tactic. They may also apologise: any apologies are usually superficial, and generally have the intent of making them seem magnanimous, and perhaps so they swiftly move on from something they see as a lost cause. A variant of this is the "none of us is truly without sin" approach, combined with assaults on your character, typically on something unrelated or possibly even invented.

    When challenging a narcissist, it is not uncommon to have to also deal with their hangers-on and acolytes, who due to the nature of their relationship, can go to absurd levels to bend the truth: and yes, also bystanders who have no knowledge of the individual's true nature. Having several people tell you that your facts are fabricated, and/or that they "know" the narcissist better than you, makes your dissatisfaction rather difficult to resolve, especially if you are made to seem like one delusional person with a grudge (the superficial charm and their persistent lying that narcissists typically have makes the situation all the worse). I think you just have to tackle each particular instance on its own terms, and let time prove you to be correct. If you suspect someone of having such traits, do not let them take care of something you love and "hope for the best": such people do not change for the better.
    This is an excellent description that catalogs some typical behavior patterns that mainstream / popular descriptions don't capture. Thank you.

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    i don't agree necessarily with the part about daddy issues as a generality, and i'm not sure i like the way she drew michael into the video, and lastly, i am not sure if "dustin" would count as npd or not. i don't for instance know if maybe people in general simply put their best foot forward at the beginning of a relationship and then stop trying to do so later to some degree... but the dramatic and sudden transition from perfect bf to douchebag seems to be beyond just putting one's best foot forward--it's basically presenting a false personality entirely in the beginning.

    the comment she's responding to reminds me of conversations that come up on the forum... and her response is really in line with part of what i think about this. it's like the reason this girl went with dustin is bc she fell in love with who he appeared to be. as it's not normal or typical for someone to basically seduce you using an entirely false image of who they are, of course you would be confused once they drop the image. of course you would be trying to figure out when you thought you knew this person, what has happened. you already probably checked his character to yourself in the beginning and he passed all your checks, so that's why you may then question what *you* are doing wrong.

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    This personality disorder (among others) runs in my family, and our circle of friends. Most the men I dated were like this, and my female friends. Now that I realized this I am on to better things like awareness and recovery and ditching toxic people and changing my thinking.
    LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx

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    I've dealt with a few of them professionally. They are among the more malignant individuals I've ever come across. Especially when the disorder combines around psychopathy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post


    Her ex had NPD traits.
    Starfall I finally typed her. She's EIE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  29. #69
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Possibly bipolar with narc traits according to Dr Drew. I wonder if we have ever had a bipolar president before. I am sure quite a few had narc traits but bipolar.

    Donald Trump’s opponents have been wondering what psychological disorders might explain the Republican presidential nominee’s erratic behavior — but Dr. Drew Pinsky is more curious about why his supporters are willing to overlook those warning signs.

    The physician and media personality appeared Monday night on CNN, where he told Don Lemon that Trump does not fit the stringent legal definition for insanity — but he does show signs of multiple mental illnesses.

    “There’s two definitions of sanity, one is legal definition, and that is somebody who is so out of it they don’t know the difference between right and wrong,” Pinsky told CNN’s Don Lemon. “That is a very high standard for insanity, (and) very few people meet that standard. When you’re legally insane, you’re really not functioning. Clinically, medically, usually when we talk about insanity, we mean psychotic, hearing voices, hallucinations.”

    He told Lemon that Trump did not fit either the legal or clinical definition of insane, and then he discussed the candidate’s apparent narcissism.

    “People want to label him with a narcissistic personality disorder, and that is a pretty tough, tough thing to do at a distance,” Pinsky said. “But let me just talk to you, narcissism generally can be a good thing. If you’re a fighter pilot, we want you to be narcissist, not to have fear in extreme circumstances. Most political leaders have some degree of narcissism, what motivates them to go into these areas. We’ve done research on this, (and) it bears that out.”

    Pinsky disagreed with HBO host John Oliver’s assessment that Trump was a sociopath, saying the real estate developer and reality TV host appeared to maintain close relationships with his children.

    “It is unfair because sociopaths are usually tied up with really, serious problems with criminal behavior, but, you know, you can be manipulative, can be narcissistic and still do okay in life,” Pinsky said. “But, again, your relationships usually have extreme pathology. (It’s) very difficult to raise healthy kids, very difficult to have sustained marriages if you’re deep into narcissism.”

    However, he said Trump showed enough troubling signs of mental instability to raise concerns about his fitness for office.
    “The question, though, is, are some of the reckless qualities that everyone is getting so disturbed about on the campaign going to be translated into office should he get elected?” Pinsky said. “That’s a pretty hard thing to predict. I don’t know if this is just somebody playing politics, or is this somebody who really can’t contain their impulses?”

    Pinsky wondered if Trump might show signs of bipolar disorder, which is characterized by unusual shifts in mood, energy and activity levels, along with an inability to carry out daily functions.

    “When I hear people that are impulsive with their speech, I worry about hypomania and bipolar types of conditions,” Pinsky said. “As he says, he has boundless energy. Again, a little hypomania can be great. There are a lot of hypomanic businessmen that get a ton done. Containing your speech, be thoughtful, take a beat before you say something, for those people it can be very, very difficult.”

    Pinsky said he was more interested in Trump’s supporters than the candidate himself.
    “What’s more fascinating to me, Don, is not him but his supporters that seem to not be concerned about any of this,” Pinsky said. “That, to me, is fascinating. As always, what is up with us?”

    His strongest supporters seem not to care about Trump’s outrageous insults against a Gold Star family — or anyone else — and even the candidate himself seems impervious to shame.

    “Let’s just assume that most people that would choose to be in a very high-profile race like this would have narcissistic tendencies, and there’s something called sort of narcissistic injury, then narcissistic rage,” Pinsky said. “If you injure — if you really shame somebody — they tend to be sort of teflon when it comes to shame. If you shame them, they can react with extreme aggression and extreme rage. So this seems to be that kind of a psychological process.”

    Pinksy said he wondered why that trait seemed to appeal to so many voters.

    “I have a radio program on KABC, (and) what I keep hearing from listeners there is enough is enough,” Pinsky said. “If somebody is going to fight back, they’re going to say, whatever, and I don’t care what he says as long as it’s extreme and pushing back and he’s putting my country and my job first, I’ll get behind him whatever he says. There’s disregard for the content.”

    He said Trump’s candidacy was symptomatic of broader cultural tendencies.

    “Why we watch reality television?” said Pinsky, himself a reality TV star. “Why do we do this? Let’s examine that.”
    I might post this in the other thread too.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    He kicked a baby out of one of his rallies today...O_o
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    He kicked a baby out of one of his rallies today...O_o
    That baby was probably a pinko commie bastard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    That baby was probably a pinko commie bastard.
    Or an immigrant, bringing foreign diseases and bad morals into our country, and wanting to have hundreds of welfare kids and take the jobs of old white guys.

    You can't start too early, You've got to nip this stuff in the bud.

    On a more serious note, I always wondered why email and phone scammers would make such transparently stupid pitches to their intended victims. The answer, I believe, is that they want to immediately weed out the people who have any brains whatsoever. It makes their job of scamming their victims much easier and more profitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    ............but Dr. Drew Pinsky is more curious about why his supporters are willing to overlook those warning signs.
    Ignorance... and tunnel vision is inevitable.

    Trumpy stands out because he's different in every sense. People are fed up with the typical "career politican", vast majority of the people are miserably uninformed about political matters anyway (and don't care either) and easily fall into his feel good pithy phrases. So he's a welcome diversion form the other typcial "career politicans".

    Besides, in this dysfunctional society we live in you'll find enough people who are not much different either.... So bother about what? There're prolly happy that there's someone who speaks out what they think, finally.
    "The spirit of resistance to government
    is so valuable on certain occasions,
    that I wish it to be always kept alive.
    It will often be exercised when wrong
    but better so than not to be exercised at all.
    I like a little rebellion now and then.
    It is like a storm in the atmosphere."
    Thomas Jefferson

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