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Thread: SEE/ESFp and ILI/INTp Duality? (Aggressor-Victim)

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    I really think that learning about duality is going to have a negative effect for me as an ILI. It almost validates my behavior of disconnecting myself romantically which in my mind is how you end up unmarried for life.

    If I wanted to engineer conditions to meet one of these people who are magically obligated to approach me and my slumped "Do not disturb" body language, how would I do that? I say that half-jokingly but it sounds like if I did the approaching, the SEE would not pick up on it?

    In all seriousness, I can't imagine where I would try to find a SEE or even an enneagram 3, 7 or 8. Where do you even start with that? I don't mind putting in the work to test it if anyone has ideas.

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    One of the recipes to meet a dual, by the manual, is to get out of your comfort zone. Do something you've never done before, or just something you don't normally do, and the people you'll meet on your way, the ones who will naturally come in your help, will probably be duals.

    This is the theory, in practice you can meet a dual at every corner of the street, and chances are you've already met tons of duals before, but failed to recognize them or pay attention to them. After all, the recommendation to get out of your comfort zone is a good way to establish a good relationship with anyone you meet, not just duals. It's been proven that when we date someone for the first time, in a "dangerous" or just "thrilling" scenario, there's tons of adrenaline involved, and this helps to open up, rely on the other, get vulnerable and so to establish a strong connection. For example, going to the roller-coaster on a first date is a classic

    Sorry for these random points. My tip is, don't get obsessed about finding a SEE, just live your life and get what comes. SEEs should be naturally attracted to you for what you are, and you're lucky that they like doing the first moves, so yeah... you might meet one sooner than you wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    One of the recipes to meet a dual, by the manual, is to get out of your comfort zone. Do something you've never done before, or just something you don't normally do, and the people you'll meet on your way, the ones who will naturally come in your help, will probably be duals.

    This is the theory, in practice you can meet a dual at every corner of the street, and chances are you've already met tons of duals before, but failed to recognize them or pay attention to them. After all, the recommendation to get out of your comfort zone is a good way to establish a good relationship with anyone you meet, not just duals. It's been proven that when we date someone for the first time, in a "dangerous" or just "thrilling" scenario, there's tons of adrenaline involved, and this helps to open up, rely on the other, get vulnerable and so to establish a strong connection. For example, going to the roller-coaster on a first date is a classic

    Sorry for these random points. My tip is, don't get obsessed about finding a SEE, just live your life and get what comes. SEEs should be naturally attracted to you for what you are, and you're lucky that they like doing the first moves, so yeah... you might meet one sooner than you wish.
    I think this is bad advice
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think this is bad advice
    What would be good advice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    I really think that learning about duality is going to have a negative effect for me as an ILI. It almost validates my behavior of disconnecting myself romantically which in my mind is how you end up unmarried for life.

    If I wanted to engineer conditions to meet one of these people who are magically obligated to approach me and my slumped "Do not disturb" body language, how would I do that? I say that half-jokingly but it sounds like if I did the approaching, the SEE would not pick up on it?

    In all seriousness, I can't imagine where I would try to find a SEE or even an enneagram 3, 7 or 8. Where do you even start with that? I don't mind putting in the work to test it if anyone has ideas.
    Ya don't disconnect romantically, but you had best have mastered your "little brain" if ya catch my meaning. Assuming you're a guy that is, girls got other issues there but it amounts to the same problem from a different angle. Still, be able to not become a gibbering mush, stalker, or start to worship your romantic prospect as a god if a 10 out of 10 decides to chat you up and/or ask you out is step 1.

    Step 2, be independent in all ways relevant to you. For me it's materially and spiritually. Materially is easy if you ain't materialistic. For example, I just needs a net connection good enough to browse sites like this, pure water, and food that's not slowly poisoning me somehow. If I got that shit, then I can live in a crappy ass tent/rusty van with enthusiasm. I wonder if that's a thing for ILI's. Perhaps, for us, once a pretty basic baseline by the standards of the time they live in is met in regards to quality of life they're pretty much set. Fun question for later. As for the spiritual part, acknowledge the fact that you will worship a god of some type whether you like it or not. Me? I went with the poor guy we nailed to a stick at Calvary. It's worked out well for me so far.

    Still, point remains, have something you'll value above both her and yourself. Humans are programmed to believe in a "higher" purpose or being. Figure that out for yourself, or else someone else will do that for you and make you their pawn in doing so. If you're really an ILI than I know you'd hate nothing more than to become someone else's unwilling or, even worse, unwitting pawn. That last one, ho boy, that's what I'd wish upon my worst enemy.

    I hope my ramblings have been helpful somehow. Thing is, I've just always banked on my and the grace of God. It's always worked for me so I can't exactly not recommend it to others .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    I really think that learning about duality is going to have a negative effect for me as an ILI. It almost validates my behavior of disconnecting myself romantically which in my mind is how you end up unmarried for life.

    If I wanted to engineer conditions to meet one of these people who are magically obligated to approach me and my slumped "Do not disturb" body language, how would I do that? I say that half-jokingly but it sounds like if I did the approaching, the SEE would not pick up on it?

    In all seriousness, I can't imagine where I would try to find a SEE or even an enneagram 3, 7 or 8. Where do you even start with that? I don't mind putting in the work to test it if anyone has ideas.
    @Accipiter, as an ILI, you need two things to meet an SEE.
    One, you need to be able to recognize SEE’s from a distance. Study the pictures and behaviors of the people who have been classified as SEE’s here. This works for me most of the time. I look for someone in public who might be standing around or sitting quietly, but who also seems like they can explode into action as soon as they see something that interests them. They also have something very recognizable in their faces, but you will have to learn this on your own.
    Two, carry a camera with you and ask to take their picture. Tell them you are the official photographer for -whatever-. Make something up. The SEE will probably see through this ruse but won’t care; they love the attention. While you are taking their pictures, you can ask them about themselves (for the captions, whatever). You don’t have to be all that friendly; SEE’s like logical and introverted and fact-oriented.
    You can find out if they show up there frequently, and if they do, return when they are there. Give them copies of the pictures you took to start the convo. Turn the conversation towards whatever interests them, and in three visits, they will be focused on you like a laser, and you can then revert to your normal introverted self and they will take over the challenge of the chase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I look for someone in public who might be standing around or sitting quietly, but who also seems like they can explode into action as soon as they see something that interests them.
    I think this is the best description of my physical presence I've ever read. Nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Two, carry a camera with you and ask to take their picture. Tell them you are the official photographer for -whatever-. Make something up. The SEE will probably see through this ruse but won’t care; they love the attention.

    Uhhhh... creepy. I'd say no and immediately try to find a reason you'd want this, assuming you're a stalker. Lmfao. But maybe that's just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    I think this is the best description of my physical presence I've ever read. Nice.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Uhhhh... creepy. I'd say no and immediately try to find a reason you'd want this, assuming you're a stalker. Lmfao. But maybe that's just me.
    I didn't say I wanted this. I said it was a way for ILI's to meet SEE's, because I've seen a couple ILI's do this exact thing. Lots and lots of ILI's are into photography (it is a way of engaging with the world in an abstract, remote way) and lots of ILI's have BMW's (The Ultimate Driving Machine, Se-seeking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    I didn't say I wanted this. I said it was a way for ILI's to meet SEE's, because I've seen a couple ILI's do this exact thing. Lots and lots of ILI's are into photography (it is a way of engaging with the world in an abstract, remote way) and lots of ILI's have BMW's (The Ultimate Driving Machine, Se-seeking).
    Maybe I should have been clearer - by 'you' I meant 'one'; a hypothetical ILI who would approach me with this request. Maybe if they look unassuming, and I see them take pictures of other things as well, I'd let them take a picture of me. Only if they take the effort to pose me and such. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I've never seen or have had someone completely random ask me to take a picture of me, and I'm also really paranoid, so my first reaction to everything always is "how is this thing meant to harm me?"

    A way for ILIs to meet SEEs... Go to activity hotspots. Like a place people go climbing or kayaking.

    It also depends on age... I'm curious to know where I could meet a teenage or early 20s ILI, to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Maybe I should have been clearer - by 'you' I meant 'one'; a hypothetical ILI who would approach me with this request. Maybe if they look unassuming, and I see them take pictures of other things as well, I'd let them take a picture of me. Only if they take the effort to pose me and such. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I've never seen or have had someone completely random ask me to take a picture of me, and I'm also really paranoid, so my first reaction to everything always is "how is this thing meant to harm me?"

    A way for ILIs to meet SEEs... Go to activity hotspots. Like a place people go climbing or kayaking.

    It also depends on age... I'm curious to know where I could meet a teenage or early 20s ILI, to be honest.
    My ILI buddy was in two places when he was a teenager. One, in the photography club, and two, in his room at home, building his computers and hating his parents.

    If you go the photography club route, be careful, because SLI's are also into photography.

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    Yeah, I don't think I'm meeting any ILIs anytime soon.

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    Duality Inter-type Relationship ESFP - INTP


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    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    Duality Inter-type Relationship ESFP - INTP
    I wondered when I watched that movie if they were duals. Thanks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Yeah, I don't think I'm meeting any ILIs anytime soon.
    Don't be so sure about that. You're a girl I assume so you're on the better end of that equation already (i.e. more ILI males exist than females the data suggests). An ILI without psychological issues will be cold and standoffish at first, but open up quickly once they start believing you're not trying to play/use them. It'll take more time if you're HB6+ and he/she is as well. We know what we're worth, but we also know that hot apparent SEE's hitting on us is, while very much appealing and welcome, exactly how many a life started down the path to ruin so that sets off the paranoia a bit. "Too good to be true" is the sentiment you will have to conquer. Do so, however, and you'll never find a more devout, thankful, and happy a lover.

    Out of morbid curiosity, do you know what a "kuudere" is and would you date a male one that was into you? Because that's kinda what you'll be running into if you're "lucking" into those of my kind.
    Last edited by End; 09-07-2019 at 07:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Don't be so sure about that. You're a girl I assume so you're on the better end of that equation already (i.e. more ILI males exist than females the data suggests). An ILI without psychological issues will be cold and standoffish at first, but open up quickly once they start believing you're not trying to play/use them. It'll take more time if you're HB6+ and he/she is as well. We know what we're worth, but we also know that hot apparent SEE's hitting on us is, while very much appealing and welcome, exactly how many a life started down the path to ruin so that sets off the paranoia a bit. "Too good to be true" is the sentiment you will have to conquer. Do so, however, and you'll never find a more devout, thankful, and happy a lover.
    I had to google that HB term, lol. I guess I am, but I project an aura of "don't approach" because of reasons, and therefore no one does. I said I won't be meeting any because of the way my culture is oriented. Basically, if you're good at Fe, you're liked by everyone. Even I, with my 4D Fe, since it's unvalued, am a bit out of the loop - a lot of it coming from the fact that I'm soc blind as well. I literally haven't met any ILIs, or if I have, I never met them again, since I assume that we don't frequent the same places, and I didn't identify any at school. I also don't actually meet a lot of people. I am an extrovert, yeah, and require being around people, but many times I don't want them to talk to me at all, I just want to feel their presence... and so on.

    I don't consider someone not opening up quickly an issue, in fact it's preferable. I have my own paranoia issues, so I'll be wondering if the other person is trying to play/use me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Out of morbid curiosity, do you know what a "kuudere" is and would you date a male one that was into you? Because that's kinda what you'll be running into if you're "lucking" into those of my kind.
    Yeah, I know what a kuudere is. Yeah, I would date them, provided that they're not actually emotionally stunted and are just cold to the outside world but able to give me affection. It'd be kinda nice to be the only one on the receiving end of such affection, I suppose.

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    Most girls above HB6 do that as a matter of course @voider, because I must sadly report that many a modern male is quite a bit too damn thirsty for their own good. Never go for "the home run" ASAP. Hell, there's a reason Casanova was so damn successful in his escapades. For he regarded the mere act of speaking with an HB10 to be the equivalent of... y'know, that.

    I am curious as to what "culture" you consider yourself belonging to. I am a "man of the west" but I've done my homework on more than a few. The gathering of research data, pretty sure I'm not the only ILI who can't resist the urge to collect it at every opportunity .

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I am curious as to what "culture" you consider yourself belonging to. I am a "man of the west" but I've done my homework on more than a few. The gathering of research data, pretty sure I'm not the only ILI who can't resist the urge to collect it at every opportunity .
    I'm from the Balkan. I guess I'm southern Slav or something, but it's the mentality of most countries in southern Europe. Fe is appreciated everywhere, but you're really regarded as "closed off" or "introvert" (I keep getting called one too) if you're unwilling to contribute to the emotional atmosphere.

    I like research too. But like, just knowing it... Not actually researching. Lmfao.

    edit: how tf did I manage to post this in the exact same minute as I did 24 hours ago.. Talent
    Last edited by voider; 09-08-2019 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    I like research too. But like, just knowing it... Not actually researching. Lmfao.
    Probably a point in favor of duality. I myself find great satisfaction in knowing my research resulted in a new discovery. You feed me a thing you'd like to know, I go find it and present to you the results of my research. Both of us were very happy with that process. At least, I know I would be. Just with the caveat of you knowing full good and well that some questions are better left unanswered and that I will still provide you with an answer if you insist.

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    @End I can see how that would be a point for duality. Also, I usually know or think I know what I'm talking about, I just want factual info to back it up but lack the drive to actually go and look it up. That, or I have a general understanding and feel it's tedious to read up on the details of it.

    Interesting, really. I can see how parts that previously sounded outlandish in ILI-SEE duality actually would have a real life application now, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    @End I can see how that would be a point for duality. Also, I usually know or think I know what I'm talking about, I just want factual info to back it up but lack the drive to actually go and look it up. That, or I have a general understanding and feel it's tedious to read up on the details of it.

    Interesting, really. I can see how parts that previously sounded outlandish in ILI-SEE duality actually would have a real life application now, lol
    I think that might be an aspect of . It has been described by many as, in one respect, the ability to arrive at the correct answer to a question before comprehending how one did so. For example, to perceive of and grasp the concept of "3" before one grasped the concept of "2" as it were.

    The "tedious to read up on details" is also a thing I know from life experience, but it's of a different nature. I have things I know, studies I've read, statistics gathered in the most comprehensive and thorough of ways... but I can't exactly tell you "when" I acquired that knowledge nor exactly "where" I did. Yet it almost always ends up being verified as true and legit by the people I present it to when they, for some reason, look into it in detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I have things I know, studies I've read, statistics gathered in the most comprehensive and thorough of ways... but I can't exactly tell you "when" I acquired that knowledge nor exactly "where" I did. Yet it almost always ends up being verified as true and legit by the people I present it to when they, for some reason, look into it in detail.
    I suppose this is some kind of Se/Ni interplay. I experience the same thing, although usually not because of things I've researched, rather details about people and particular ways to do things that I simply know are true, and accept as fact. Once I deem information useful it gets learned and absorbed by my brain for continuous later use. Of course, everyone can relate to this since we all have memory retention in varying degrees, but it strikes me as particularly Se/Ni.

    Related to this is the way (or rather the time) I start utilising my knowledge. When I start learning something, it feels like my mind is a blank slate -- or rather, a better way to put it would be an empty container that needs to be filled with knowledge. Until it's completely filled up, I never feel confident or able to call upon the particular details of what I've learned, it all feels really vague and like I haven't learned anything at all. But the moment the container fills up completely, and usually that's when I need to actually act upon what I know, it feels like someone just spilled all of its contents into my brain and suddenly I can act with confidence. I wonder if you can relate to this, lol. I'm not even sure I explained it well. It's very odd -- I felt this way about typology; I spent a very long time just absorbing information and feeling incompetent to make conclusions from it until one day I simply was able to.

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    I have to agree with voider about the picture idea, I just can't get past the idea that I'd be outright lying to someone without a way to cover it up. Plus I've had "event planners" randomly walk up on me and start a conversation about how great their community food week thing is and I can't say I'd wish that on anyone. I bet my picture is on some random Instagram now.

    I tried going to a lot of public places this last month and it's just really uncomfortable. It reminds me of the time I tried to join a racquetball club in college and there was only 8 people. It's just so easy to walk into a room, look around, and realize that there is absolutely zero potential present.

    A lot of the "ILI profiles" say that their goal can be summarized with the idea that if you act upon anything you should already know of its future success, and I think that is what I hate about searching for something when you don't know where to find it. On top of that Stratiyevskaya said "ILI has litte with which he can attract an SEE besides proving himself to be a more cunning and clever partner" and I was thinking this before I read it. Honestly all I have seems to be more abstract, and it seems really ephemeral. Why would they be interested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    A lot of the "ILI profiles" say that their goal can be summarized with the idea that if you act upon anything you should already know of its future success, and I think that is what I hate about searching for something when you don't know where to find it. On top of that Stratiyevskaya said "ILI has litte with which he can attract an SEE besides proving himself to be a more cunning and clever partner" and I was thinking this before I read it. Honestly all I have seems to be more abstract, and it seems really ephemeral. Why would they be interested?
    The obvious answer is that you clearly possess the things they are painfully aware they lack. As I say, provided a type is not traumatized somehow, it's only natural they'd "home in" on their dual.

    Also (if you're an ILI), I'd say that you'd rather act once the probability of success is damned good if we regard the cost/benefit of taking that ultimate risk we like to call an action. For instance, a coin flip risking a quarter for a dollar? Hell, flip it until you hit a losing streak than back out, because that deal's sweet but never forget that things that sound too good to be true in one form or another often are, but it ain't like we're facing a demon in that example or anything like that so it is still worth the shot. Damned game's gotta be rigged but if this fucker isn't making me sign anything and it's literally just coin flips then hey, why the fuck not.

    Context and scale matters folks. A given question has many permutations to the imaginative, infinite variables. "Total certainty" is a lie only fools chase. Be the guy who only takes coin flips if the consequences are minimal, bet big on 95 percent odds, but be willing to risk it all if that mere 5 percent chance is World Peace while the other 95 percent is yet one more war in some wartorn shithole part of the world. I hope I'm making some kind of sense here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    I have to agree with voider about the picture idea, I just can't get past the idea that I'd be outright lying to someone without a way to cover it up. Plus I've had "event planners" randomly walk up on me and start a conversation about how great their community food week thing is and I can't say I'd wish that on anyone. I bet my picture is on some random Instagram now.

    I tried going to a lot of public places this last month and it's just really uncomfortable. It reminds me of the time I tried to join a racquetball club in college and there was only 8 people. It's just so easy to walk into a room, look around, and realize that there is absolutely zero potential present.

    A lot of the "ILI profiles" say that their goal can be summarized with the idea that if you act upon anything you should already know of its future success, and I think that is what I hate about searching for something when you don't know where to find it. On top of that Stratiyevskaya said "ILI has litte with which he can attract an SEE besides proving himself to be a more cunning and clever partner" and I was thinking this before I read it. Honestly all I have seems to be more abstract, and it seems really ephemeral. Why would they be interested?
    Man, I read the above and all I could think of is “Gloom and Doom, guy, gloom and doom.”

    One of my very best friends since jr high school is an ILI, and he’d get into these dark moods where he sounded exactly like that. He is an incredibly smart guy, tall, thin, good looking, worked in a university and retired at age 45 because he’d invested well, owns a beautiful house that he works on because his father is a carpenter, and he’s never been married, despite having had a number of female liaisons. I wish we had known about Socionics in high school.

    In HS, I had a female chemistry lab partner who was really nice, had a body to die for, acted like a popular airhead and was actually very, very smart but hid that from people. I could tell she was way smarter than most people in a very smart school because, well, we were lab partners and you work with a person and you know them. I really got along well with her but didn’t lust after her; I just thought she was smart and easy to talk to, but my ILI friend found out I knew her and was like, Oh My God What Is She Like She’s A Goddess and I’m like No, dude, she’s a great person but why is she smart and acting like an airhead? I didn’t think to introduce them because they seemed like Night and Day to me, and he didn’t explicitly ask; he just lusted for her from the shadows. Looking back, it is obvious that she was SEE. She and I had a lot of fun in that lab and we liked each other without feeling like it had to get romantic. Classic Activity relationship.

    I really regret that they didn’t get together. Years later, he told me that she was the only woman he’d ever really cared about, and she just disappeared after HS. He had a string of women after that. Some had great bodies, some were kind of slutty (extroverted and sexy but no finesse, like SEE’s have), and one woman moved in with him for a while and moved out just as suddenly. He really should have just said something to that SEE. She was cool, she’d have talked to him. And, of course, if you talk to a dual IRL for two hours, dualization begins.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-11-2019 at 06:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    Honestly all I have seems to be more abstract, and it seems really ephemeral. Why would they be interested?
    Because we feel like we don't have that. I sometimes get hangups about my identity -- I can't look into myself, and I think, if all I do is just react to the world, what would I be on my own? And my mind goes back to "Nothing". I feel like Kirby just swallowing information and reacting to it without ever really digesting anything. So it's attractive to see and notice that abstract and ephemeral quality, because I guess we feel like you'd be able to see what's really inside of us and tell us as much.

    I actually haven't been in a relationship, but the only people I've ever really been attracted to were the people who showed me there's something more to me than just a reaction. They were all high Ni. Black holes are attractive, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    I actually haven't been in a relationship, but the only people I've ever really been attracted to were the people who showed me there's something more to me than just a reaction. They were all high Ni. Black holes are attractive, I guess.
    I wouldn't call people like me "black holes". Instead, I'd compare us to a tranquil well under a full moon. I've seen many a description/story and most who found my type attractive tended to reference their eyes and how they reminded them of that. Wells that drew everything unto themselves, an inviting, reflective void that simply inquired that you'd look into it for a moment and not fear nor reject what it may show you.
    Last edited by End; 09-12-2019 at 06:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Man, I read the above and all I could think of is “Gloom and Doom, guy, gloom and doom.”

    One of my very best friends since jr high school is an ILI, and he’d get into these dark moods where he sounded exactly like that. He is an incredibly smart guy, tall, thin, good looking, worked in a university and retired at age 45 because he’d invested well, owns a beautiful house that he works on because his father is a carpenter, and he’s never been married, despite having had a number of female liaisons. I wish we had known about Socionics in high school.

    In HS, I had a female chemistry lab partner who was really nice, had a body to die for, acted like a popular airhead and was actually very, very smart but hid that from people. I could tell she was way smarter than most people in a very smart school because, well, we were lab partners and you work with a person and you know them. I really got along well with her but didn’t lust after her; I just thought she was smart and easy to talk to, but my ILI friend found out I knew her and was like, Oh My God What Is She Like She’s A Goddess and I’m like No, dude, she’s a great person but why is she smart and acting like an airhead? I didn’t think to introduce them because they seemed like Night and Day to me, and he didn’t explicitly ask; he just lusted for her from the shadows. Looking back, it is obvious that she was SEE. She and I had a lot of fun in that lab and we liked each other without feeling like it had to get romantic. Classic Activity relationship.

    I really regret that they didn’t get together. Years later, he told me that she was the only woman he’d ever really cared about, and she just disappeared after HS. He had a string of women after that. Some had great bodies, some were kind of slutty (extroverted and sexy but no finesse, like SEE’s have), and one woman moved in with him for a while and moved out just as suddenly. He really should have just said something to that SEE. She was cool, she’d have talked to him. And, of course, if you talk to a dual IRL for two hours, dualization begins.

    Haha sorry I don't mean to be that negative.
    I personally think Ni can be really debilitating if you don't stop it. I would really give anything to have someone that could personally pull me out of it, but at the same time I can't help but think something like that is too good to be true, as if it would never match expectations.

    One of the first times I went on a date I wanted to impress this (I'm guessing ESI) girl and went off-roading in my Jeep during lunch break in HS. I ended up getting stuck and she walked back to school (a 20 minute walk) while I got it unstuck (took several hours). After that I just couldn't talk to her again even though I still liked her. The worst part is for the next year and a half she would sneak up on me and scare me any chance she got (she was somehow extremely good at this, on top of being an office helper so she was everywhere) and then quickly dart away before I get unfazed. Before I thought she was making fun of me, but after a bit I realized she wouldn't have bothered if it was like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    Haha sorry I don't mean to be that negative.
    I personally think Ni can be really debilitating if you don't stop it. I would really give anything to have someone that could personally pull me out of it, but at the same time I can't help but think something like that is too good to be true, as if it would never match expectations.

    One of the first times I went on a date I wanted to impress this (I'm guessing ESI) girl and went off-roading in my Jeep during lunch break in HS. I ended up getting stuck and she walked back to school (a 20 minute walk) while I got it unstuck (took several hours). After that I just couldn't talk to her again even though I still liked her. The worst part is for the next year and a half she would sneak up on me and scare me any chance she got (she was somehow extremely good at this, on top of being an office helper so she was everywhere) and then quickly dart away before I get unfazed. Before I thought she was making fun of me, but after a bit I realized she wouldn't have bothered if it was like that.
    Yeah, she liked you.

    That’s a pretty funny story. I could easily see that happening to my ILI buddy.

    Incidentally, the male ILI whom I mentioned in the post above also owned a Jeep in high school. He fixed it up with speakers and it got stolen. Then he got and restored an independent Shelby Cobra.

    I’ve dated a female IEI who owns a gold Jeep. Must be something about that Ni seeking Se there.

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    I know this is unrelated, but posts made by @End always remind me I am definitely a Te subtype ILI. I do like philosophy and talking about it, but I am no where near as poetic in my use of language as he is.

    I am curious @End. What is your educational background?
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-16-2019 at 01:25 PM.

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    Since I might of interrupted the flow of the trend, I will give a very easy to see example of an ILI and SEE relationship:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDBxq5vAaxg

    You can watch more videos of theirs to get a better feel for the dynamics.

    Another one easy to see is Will Smith and his wife (if someone hasn't mentioned this already).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Investigator View Post
    I know this is unrelated, but posts made by @End always remind me I am definitely a Te subtype ILI. I do like philosophy and talking about it, but I am no where near as poetic in my use of language as he is.

    I am curious @End. What is your educational background?
    Hehehe, you flatter me @Investigator in a way that'd take far too long to explain. Because you asked nicely I will provide in as full a way as I can. I double majored in Political Science and Philosophy. Naturally, I straight Aced those subjects with only a B+ or two along the way because I'm pretty sure I pissed off that one professor or two one too many times when I might have accidentally crushed their ego by inadvertently proving I had a "standard deviation" on them in front of the other students with my arguments.

    It only happened a few times, but I was also lucky when the one or two other times I did that I could see a flash of joy in their eye. They were actually glad I outsmarted them. This is, btw, a thing I pray I experience when I have kids. I want them to surpass me and if they actually do somehow I'll officially be the happiest father in the world .

    Provided they surpass me in good ways mind you. A subtle curse of strong , you always know exactly how it can all go oh so terribly wrong...
    Last edited by End; 09-18-2019 at 05:52 AM.

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    Earlier this year I had an experience pursuing an ILI for the first time. I'm still unsure why I'm meant to be into them romantically lmao.

    The dynamic was pretty stereotypical. I honed in on her and made moves right away, reading her body language to judge how close I could get. The first night we met we were already cuddling and shit. I checked in with her frequently to be sure she was comfortable. At first it was going great. She was quirky, intelligent, and a total fucking nerd. Something about it's adorable to me. But then her shit Se and Fe caught up.

    I tried to get her out into the world a lot, which didn't go well. We'd make plans and she'd just... not show up. Getting her moving was really hard. Because she didn't express much emotionally, I started getting the strangest mixed signals. We were really touchy and had some intimate moments, and I was trying to move closer and closer. She'd be very receptive to all my advances and let me take the lead, but wouldn't give indications she enjoyed our time together. I ended up feeling burned because she seemed to feel nothing, despite all my effort. Eventually I got properly turned down, and I can't lie, it pissed me off. Vindictiveness isn't always a good thing.

    Whenever we were together I'd roast her to hell and back. Our dynamic was constantly putting the other down, which was pretty fun. She'd give me wandering predictions about my future and advise me to be cautious with my plans. I did appreciate her insight and forethought. She also could absorb information and explain things to me in straightforward terms, which made conversations good. No passion, no energy, but very smart and sober. She was always thinking about her future and making plans also, which I greatly appreciated. I need people who are going places. I do miss having her as a conversation partner.

    Fucking weirdo.

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    ^^^^

    Yeah, this is a perfect example of what I was getting at, with @Adam Strange about the appeal of duality

    Not sure what its like with the FI doms, but I too, am constantly reading the other person to see if they are as happy as I am, and I need that feedback! It seems a bit tough to get that with an FE polr, but maybe with time/maturity it works out.....
    Despite the benefits of the match up, due to the reasons above, duality doesn't seem so appealing from the outside...

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    Yeah I struggle with Fe polr because I'm such an exuberant and emotional person. When they don't show anything it's frustrating and gets hard to read. I can tone myself down to match their level, and I don't push feelings on people, but I appreciate enthusiastic feedback. While ILIs have qualities I appreciate, they're not the most exciting people. I find myself craving a strong Ni and Te influence in my life, but romantically I'm more drawn to expressive and colorful people.

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    Yeah, I'm completely the same....

    I'm interested to know if FE polrs prefer us FI creatives, or if they prefer being with people that are a bit less expressive/ emotional, and more on their level?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DELL View Post
    Yeah, I'm completely the same....

    I'm interested to know if FE polrs prefer us FI creatives, or if they prefer being with people that are a bit less expressive/ emotional, and more on their level?
    I know of one ILI who managed to admire an SEE from afar and did nothing with that. I know three ILI’s who are married to ESI’s.
    Most people prefer the easy and familiar over something that might be better but is harder to achieve.

    Almost no one knows Socionics. They find someone who is 85% good and better than anyone before that person and they say “I’m good, I’m done looking.” This is the problem of looking for a place to eat at lunch and not having access to any reviews. You tend to make quick but non-optimal choices.

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    Yeah I do completely get where you coming from...

    To compare it to food though; if the most optimal diet came in pill form, would everyone take it?

    Many people smoke, and we all know the dangers....

    Some people just prefer the 'aspects' that come from taking non 'optimal' solutions, and are willing to take the risks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I know of one ILI who managed to admire an SEE from afar and did nothing with that. I know three ILI’s who are married to ESI’s.
    Most people prefer the easy and familiar over something that might be better but is harder to achieve.

    Almost no one knows Socionics. They find someone who is 85% good and better than anyone before that person and they say “I’m good, I’m done looking.” This is the problem of looking for a place to eat at lunch and not having access to any reviews. You tend to make quick but non-optimal choices.
    It’s like how a lot of people sign on to the efficient market hypothesis. There are no free lunches on the market so we should stop looking for the ultimate prize and pick assets that seem to be above average returns with normal risk. I am going to say that there is a lot of merit to this line of reasoning and you will most likely end up with a decent profit. However, it shouldn’t mean you should stop looking for that nice risky asset that can ultimately lead you to prosperity. If you do, then some less deserving people with less conservative thoughts than you will swoop it up and consider themselves the master of your domain while having less competency than yourself. You can’t call yourself a man, if you let this happen to you.
    Last edited by Investigator; 09-20-2019 at 01:59 PM.

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    Maybe it's type related to look at settling down with "the one" in a similar way to purchasing assets and looking at risk and cost-benefit and stuff (and that's cool and all), but I think most people don't go, hmm how does this one compare to the others on the market? At least I don't. It's more like, "oh, this lunch looks great!" (and maybe there are better lunches, but the possibility of any other lunch doesn't enter your mind cuz you're so excited about this one.)

    This isn't to say people always make the best choices, of course. The language/analogy is just foreign to me.

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    I tend to agree with @ashlesha here. Maybe it's a sensor thing, or maybe it's an ethical thing (if we're looking at it from a socionics standpoint) but evaluating people based on how they're going to contribute to my life in the long term or based on their assets is not something that I'd do consciously. If I were in a relationship with someone and having problems, I wouldn't be thinking, oh crap, I could have found a better person, I should leave this person immediately and go look for that one (like, what you'd do with an awful lunch or something). I'd try to fix the problem first. But I guess that's what you mean by "taking a risk"; if you break up with someone 85% good for you in search of the Perfect One, you risk never finding them and losing those 85% too. I don't think relationships can or should be classified in that way, though, because dual or non-dual, a relationship will fail if you don't put effort into it. AND people make bad choices, as ashlesha said.

    With that being said, I think duality isn't really applicable when we're younger. Putting the risk think into perspective, you take a risk every time you choose to enter a relationship. And you're going to learn something about yourself whether you break up or you stay in it until death do you part. The more relationships you have -- or the longer you are in one relationship -- you should be better at recognizing what you like and don't like in people. And also become better at accepting criticism, which comes with age. So if you're looking at duality as the only viable choice for a relationship... you're barring yourself from learning a lot about people -- yourself included.

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