I do think there are some SEE females who will appear more aggressive and successful than the ones I have experience with,
I agree somewhat but would say this is due to the SEE being a flexible type, being able to manipulate and maneuver groups, enjoying being the 'leader' (shows they're capable), because they are a very versatile type, and most of all, because they know how to play different roles well (given the motivation to do it.)
on the same note I also think their aggressiveness is nothing but a facade and will dissipate at close distance
At close distance SEEs are vulnerable but it's pretty situational. There is a fierceness ever present underneath the kindness that is completely authentic.
Breaking the stereotype for SEE is the first thing you need to do if you want to understand how this relationship works. SEE are not pushy, ridiculous power hungry monsters seeking millions of dollars or fame.
I guess I would say two things here. 1. Some SEEs are indeed power hungry if they have low self esteem. It can manifest as a need to be better than others and be recognized as perfect. There's a type of competition that some people do that indicates they do not understand how two people can be equally acknowledged for a particular role. This applies to all types as I've seen LSEs and ILIs act this way too in their own way
In fact, SEE rarely will understand the importance of money(not many people do)
The importance of money is a given in our society. Maybe you mean they discard society's notion of monetary importance, preferring a more authentic, collectivist approach to human needs being met.
SEE is not confident in any aspect most of the time
I'll illustrate an interesting contradiction in this type. They are confident only when in control yet freely will submit to an authority figure that they trust, while only trusting a few with this, as they see most people as not competent. You can probably see how SEE women get into issues (or get lucky) when they are in relationships by entrusting their hubby to guide them through life (and also why the ILI/SEE dyad sometimes works really well)
(Weak Ti makes it very difficult to compare yourself to people who do things well
Is doing things well not a Te thing? I would attribute this to mobilizing rather than Ti
so SEE tends to take years to notice they are good at something
The mobilizing "leveling up" as they say
from my experience they tend to be great cooks). SEE tends to only take power when they are pushed into it, when other people give them positive feedback and confidence, they do not just take it.
Damb you for exposing this. Also refusing to give SEE fairness is good way to get them to rage at you and refuse to give you anything. Sadly they are very generous usually and love to do things for people so this hurts them more than it does others.
At a distant and i’ll define the distance for simplicity: An acquaintance at work or someone you talk to in a casual manner at school, SEE will appear extremely accepting of anyone, will commonly be a tad nervous or shy(usually when younger), act very appropriate according to the situation, nonjudgmental and will have very unique and sometimes even comical facial expressions and gestures(sometimes only noticeable at closer distance).
Will often hate their job unless they have a lot of friends
I consider everyone that I know or have ever known, outside of family, an acquaintance.
around and management that is not strict
this is an important point
(if they are the one managing, they might actually like their job).
I'd add that most SEEs will like any job where specific conditions are met, including the ability to complete tasks that aren't drawn out, being given some feedback that what they're is important and not meaningless, the ability to move from one type of activity to another after some time doing the same thing, and especially flexible management. SEEs can be amazing workers if they are invested in their work.
They do not do well with schedules from my experience and tend to get into rushed situations if they are left to do things based on their own will.
They also tend to be very unorganized
Unfortunately true. I like an online type profile that explains that the SEE does things when they feel like it because they know that they won't do it later when they don't feel like it. Therefore, SEE can be organized and other things that don't come naturally but only on an inconsistent basis.
and don’t do well with complexity(you will never see a SEE programmer)
I have toyed around with some programming but am happy to say that I tried it and don't need to make it a huge part of my life because of the complexity
they like things to be simple and straight forward.
I would go as far to say that they simply believe and would prefer to believe that life is indeed simple and straightforward and why make it complicated.
Over time, most people in the work space or communal space will like them
Another thing that is situational. If you mean that the exterior persona that is less likeable wears off to reveal someone that most people will like to rely on and trust, then I mostly agree. It's situational again because this type is unpredictable and changes their behavior allot due to boredom of the predictability of life. additonally they can come off as very hard to take at times. This is one of the most emotionally conflicted types that exist. (LSI being another). Many people find them emotionally demanding.
They tend to be able to adapt to any crowd by finding things they like about a groups culture and deliberately sharing experiences with a group on these aspects
I would attribute this to the ability to play a role
SEE’s tend to have problems with going out drinking, overeating, smoking weed, having unhealthy friends, attention seeking
Many SEEs do not experience issues in life due to these behaviors whether or not the behaviors exist (sometimes the SEE can self regulate to get other things they want which conflict with a sequence of actions)
although its nowhere as aggressive as SLE who will literally start touching you)
and anything else that can be considered an addictive experience.
Not all SEEs take these behaviors to the extreme (into adulthood lol)
All of these things lead to SEE getting sick or another adverse affect. SEE will often down play anything they like to do and is unhealthy or say they can control themselves but I find this is something they say to avoid judgement.
I'd criticize here what your idea of control is and suggest that when a person makes a poor decision it doesn't indicate loss of control. SEEs feel that they can make poor decisions because they do indeed have good abilities (sensing their good luck instigates this risk taking) to steer things in the direction they want, especially in a spontaneous way (if that makes sense).
An overview of how this dyad functions sounds a bit harsh but it won’t appear that way to each other. ILI will destroy SEE’s unhealthy behavior and manipulate SEE into doing what they think is important for future success. SEE will break down ILI’s emotional barriers and push ILI to do things for the fun of it.
I'm starting feel overly critical here but I want to continue adding onto this because I think it's pretty good. I want to say that many dyads like this include an ILI who is open about the motivations for persuading the SEE, and an SEE who willingly trusts the ILI to make important decisions, and allows the ILI to "control" them so to speak. Also it's worth mentioning that SEEs hate being controlled overtly and this dynamic could become an exercise of extreme vulnerability and trust when the dynamic behind things goes unspoken. I just meant to point out that both parties can participate in this in an honest way (and that most people will not learn how to control the SEE in an acceptable way so the SEE will tell many people with good advice to fuck off).
Beginning stages are incredibly difficult
Very much so. And the difficulty could replay over and over (to a less extreme extent over time)
to ILI’s inattention to their relationship and SEE’s attention seeking behavior. SEE has the big task of holding on to ILI’s attention without getting upset and ruining the relationship.
I find this to go both ways. An ILI can get very lonely without someone to love them.
Very often in the beginning SEE appears too needy for ILI and ILI just ignores SEE.
>.> grounds for permanent dismissal
SEE sometimes uses crude methods such as flirting or cheating to gain ILI’s attention.
It's worth noting that other types resort to this behavior as well (maybe its the ILI who inspires such tactics and the SEE just knows how to get the ILIs attention better)
ILI will often abandon the relationship early as they won’t want to deal with problems created by their partner. I have not heard 1 experience where SEE walks away on their own accord, it has always been ILI who throws it all away.
I will give you one example that contradicts your experience. I have a friend who is ILI and dating SEE. The ILI walked away early and the SEE begged him to try again. She offered a real solution and he stayed. Then the ILI refused to treat the SEE with fairness and love over too long a period, the SEE mourned the relationship and let go completely. The ILI was the one who begged the SEE to stay and they worked out a compromise. Each party has to remind the other where the breaking points are over time so that the commitment will stay strong.
ILI will continuously tell SEE that they shouldn’t do something as it will have a bad outcome, SEE does it anyways and ILI says I told you so. ILI will nag and complain, make fun of SEE and before SEE takes action, will make comments to shake their confidence in terms of how think their activities will play out. “You are going out drinking again with the girls, i’m going to laugh when you puke in the uber and all you poor bums are going to have to shell out $100 to get the uber cleaned.”. “It must be fun to have to drag yourself home at 4m after drinking 100 beers, I will be at home sleeping in my bed like a little princess without a worry”. “In a few years when drinking starts to affect your appearance you are only 25 and look like a 40 your old rag, i’m going to find me a hot young girl straight out of high school to replace you with. If she is hot enough, i’ll let her live with me for free.”.
There are many times when an ILI warns against things that have little potential risk and the SEE knows this.
After years of SEE creating problems for themselves they start actually listening to ILI.
I was willing to take guidance initially but had already developed trust for his guidance before the relationship started.
ILI spends years beating bad habits out of SEE, training them to be equals.
Maybe you don't agree but I feel that this happens mutually.
ILI tends to not want to have a partner who they have to carry around, ILI doesn’t need extra work or problems to solve and this is very important to ILI as he can’t move forward knowing obstacles can pop up at any time.
Agree. despite this, it usually happens anyway which just adds flavor to the ILIs boring AF life. Not that that makes the ILI any less reluctant to deal with it (though they do)
What SEE does for ILI is remove the painful parts of social interaction but not by being dominate socially but in the same way ILI beats bad habits out of SEE, constantly complaining, saying things like “you cannot say these things to people! you can’t act that way! you can’t talk to me like that!” and remaining angry until ILI acts appropriately(which can take a long time). SEE sometimes push ILI to be in a social setting. SEE tends to love ILI’s ridiculous dark humor but knows it’s not appreciated by many people and will often appear ridiculous, SEE will point out things not to joke about in front of others. This goes on for many years until ILI is polite and appropriate in all social situations.
Additionally, I've found that with 4D fe the ILI can piggy back on the group interaction that the SEE creates. It's well understood between the two that they are participating in social setting that are mostly superficial in nature and that they agreed to do it together for mutual benefit, whether for business or pleasure. The SEE takes on all of the responsibility for dealing with people because they can actually relate and understand why the ILI hates it, as the SEE goes through periods of emotional distraction when they also hate to deal with people. (but especially the same people for long periods)
SEE also accepts ILI for who he is and does not force ILI to be anyone else, and this very valued as ILI feels like an anomaly roaming the earth
I have no context for this one so i'll have to take your word for it
SEE tends to break through the emotional barriers on subjects that ILI finds too difficult or touchy to talk about until they can speak about it without feeling like they are going through a painful experience.
ILI has problems relating to people and understanding their emotions. ILI learns a lot about people by watching SEE’s behavior and hearing their thoughts about those who ILI thinks are just trouble(not that this changes ILI’s mind but provides a bit of understand that these people often need help rather than harsh judgement).
I find that ILIs bond to people who they would not want to bond with if they are around them for extended periods. The ILI will find themselves doing things for the unwanted person or people and thinking that it's ok when maybe they would have preferred to dispose of the nuisance before the bond happened. (years later when recalling what they did for people and how they lost out when they could have just ignored the person, the behavior is reinforced by regret.)
In daily life, it seems like they are constantly trading favors with each other. ILI uses SEE requests as bargaining chips to keep SEE from diverging from responsibility in order to keep life stable. When SEE makes a request, ILI can respond with “Sure, i’ll do thing for you but you have to do that by 5pm”.
I guess I would say that in my relationship we both do things for each other because we like to. I'll admit that the ILI is much more hesitant to do anything for anyone but will be more willing if they are getting something out of it. The SEE resents that the ILI doesn't return this love of service to others and will make them pay for it by refusing to be as gracious as they would like to be.
ILI simplifies life for SEE so they can be more efficient and spend less time on things they don’t want to do. ILI also simplifies life for himself for the same reason. Both value convenience much more than stated in any article. They avoid complicated situations or plans unless it has big gain(SEE will still reject these ideas but will follow's ILI plan as ILI is usually successful)
I have no context for the specificity you seem to be using.
Extra time gained by methods are spent hanging out with each other, doing fun things they both enjoy or things promised to each other from bargaining
They love to spend time together. The SEE bored with the same activities over and over and shakes things up. If the SEE finds entertainment somewhere else the ILI gets lonely but waits patiently and loyally. If they get too lonely they will wish they had someone else to fill the place and start fantasising, creating mental pictures of what the ideal mate would look like, and start to look for that.
All behavior each other learns from each other doesn’t feel permanent at all. It’s quite weird, it’s almost like partners tend to “slip” once in awhile. Although it becomes much more consistent over time.
I've read somewhere that one of the perks of this relationship is that, because of the recurrent lows and highs, and the constant improvement on the relationship, that they get to experience the honeymoon stage over and over. so far this is true for me.
My life with SEE is extremely flexible. We both work from home. My SEE gf has an online business I created that has become very successful due to her artistic brilliance(she doesn’t think this at all), me building her business to guarantee profit and I work from home as software developer. At least 2 days(estimation) out of a work week we take half the day of and go on mini adventures, doing everyday stuff like hanging out at home binge watching some tv show or even just sitting on the coach acting silly to the point of what probably appears to other people as insanity.
^ lol this all of it
She constantly creates these time off sessions from work by begging like a child which i find somewhat adorable(she can't get her way by being forceful as I will make fun of her). We are years ahead of other couples we know in terms of financial stability and being happy with day-to-day life.
I usually beg him to let me work rather than the opposite. He's the one who says "we have plenty of time to finish this project lets just get food and relax".
For those who have experienced or witnessed an SEE/ILI romantic relationship, have you found that the beginning stages are very on again, off again? The SEE pursuing the ILI, losing interest very briefly, and then pursuing the ILI more? Like an upward spiral.
Is there a theme with the SEE giving up after pursuing a reluctant ILI for a while, then the ILI finally getting on board after the SEE has pretty much moved on?
I was in the Kroger grocery store yesterday, looking for ESI's in the frozen food section (because you know what they say about ESI's: Many are cold, but few are frozen), and I noticed this couple, where the SEE woman was taller than the ILI guy and she was sweeping through the various grocery sections while the guy struggled to keep up. Her radar easily found me and noticed me looking, so she contrived to divert and to sweep past me, while the guy noticed what she was doing and gave me an extremely hostile look.
I deadpanned back and thought, "Oh, oh. This guy is in trouble."
I wrapped up my modern hunter-gatherer activities, during which I had seen them twice again (the store is set up to drive you in certain directions) and headed for the self-checkout line.
As I was standing there, out of the aisles popped the SEE-ILI couple, she looked around, made a beeline for me, and settled into line directly behind me.
So now I'm thinking that this ILI is really having his balls squeezed, and I wondered if she is going to say something to me. But she doesn't, and some very long minutes pass while the people at the six checkouts suddenly stop making any progress toward getting out of the store, and I'm still wondering how I can get this ILI guy to be a step up from where he is, so I turn around towards him, smile, and say "Sometimes it seems like time stops in these lines."
He looked immensely relieved, smiled back, nodded to a register that just opened. And said to me, "And then it starts up again".
Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-19-2017 at 06:45 PM.
It wasn't on and off and on again. It was too slow until the day he asked me to marry him. Thankfully the Gamma Business worked flawlessly, official status.
So maybe on/off was at work on his end, I have no idea how I looked to him back then, probably gave him the cold shoulder many a-time for not moving forward with me at any given moment.
I think in pictures, moving pictures...
Recommended Music - ILI-Ni
What I observed, a lot of (P)DA may come from SEE's incentive.
I've been with my ILI almost two years. We are getting married in August and just bought a house together.
It's hard for me to describe our relationship, because it's so damn good, but I'll try.
It started off a bit odd. I thought he was kind of vanilla, but yet I kept seeing him. It does get better with time, and as someone else said, the honeymoon period starts over and over again.
It's become very obvious, now that we live together, that I am soooo much better with the practical, "right now" stuff that goes on in our lives. When something unexpected happens or we end up in a situation he's not well versed in that requires action, he will get stuck in his head, lost in thought, and he pauses or starts making nervous statements because he is not sure of the best course of action. It's almost like a video buffering or something.
I can tell when it happens and direct him as needed, smooth things over, or just take over. It's kind of cute. Here we have this know-it-all, logical guy, who doesn't know what he needs to do right now.
However, he benefits me by accurately predicting the long term pros and cons of things I want. He always presents possibilities that I hadn't thought about, and alternatives I should consider. Sometimes he is overly negative but I know it's coming from a place of wanting what's best, and since I tend to be positive about damn near everything, it balances us out. He also takes care of things I don't know how (or want) to take care of, like regular life stuff that requires a lot of attention be paid to it. For example: We needed a joint bank account. I'd rather pull my eyelashes out one by one than spend an afternoon changing all my bank stuff over from my solo acct to our joint account. He told me to just give him all the info, and he would get it switched over. And he did.
Oh, we also have an extremely fun time just being at home, doing nothing. Our talks are deep. I ask the questions and he answers me directly, which I love. There's no secrets or masks. He talks in a way to where nothing is left to interpretation for me to figure out. He night tell me something from his past, and I will say "and what made you do that? Why did you feel that way?" and he explains so concisely. We can go on for hours like this, then spend hours silently watching netflix, and everything is fine.
Then there's the jokes and teasing. You have to be very attentive to get his sense of humor (most miss it). I think he is hilarious. I tease him and he isn't offended by anything.
I also am very physically affectionate, and he needs a lot of hugs, kisses, compliments, and obvious signs of love. Which I am perfectly OK giving.
Last edited by HotSauce; 06-02-2017 at 09:23 PM.
I'm just an effin ray of sunshine
SEEs apparently look for leashes. What I have noticed my SEE sister and her LSE boyfriend ( lacking...) is that she wants to consult someone when she wants to buy something. As a matter of fact I've ended up in position of giving their exhaustive advices. For example: Moonlight is not enough for solar panels to keep your house powered at all. Do not trust them. Soon functional nuclear power plant will decrease price of electricity. You struggle with money so if it pays itself back when your kids are grown up it wont be and then it is time to replace them... Not that much sun light at latitudes where we live.
Someone needs to give on demand leash services for SEE.
Measuring you right now
Winning is for losers
I'm just an effin ray of sunshine
I've been thinking about the differences between ESI's and SEE's and LIE's and ILI's recently. I'm LIE, and I have a few very good friends who are ILI. I have less experience with female ESI's and SEE's, but a recent experience shed some light on why SEE's like ILI's.
I was in a clothing store and the sales woman was SEE. She is a well-endowed blonde who dresses to emphasize that fact and is super public and super friendly, and I liked her immediately. (Activity partners, you know.) While she was attending to me, she was also effortlessly handling several other customers and seemed to be in great form, managing to keep them all happy and satisfied. She said some fairly blunt things to them but was always able to carry it off without seeming to offend them.
I wasn't in a hurry, so I just hung back and waited for the other customers to leave, but said some things to her every once in a while to show her I was still there.
After a while, we were alone in the men's department and I started talking about potential significant others (because I'm dressing to please one, of course ), and she eventually got around to describing the guys she likes (dark introverts who are good around the house) because she was talking non-stop and seemed to have to fill in any conversational gaps.
She was fun and interesting, but here's the thing. I'm extremely extroverted and can talk to people for hours if they are up for it, but she got tired of me, even though I kept buying (she's on commission). I concluded from this that she would be better off with an introvert who would not engage her attention all the time, because an introvert would be busy with their own stuff. And that introvert would be an ILI, for sure.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 10-22-2017 at 02:54 AM.
Because both wanted to be heard.
Unlike extrovert + introvert, the introvert is a good listener, while the extrovert a speaker.
And as for me, ;p i also get tired of just listening to an extrovert xD specially if there's no common interest i guess.
I have talked with an IEE male online too before and he's a talker. I got tired of him too because i don't know. Too extrovert for me.
Then another IEE again, but this time, since he's not that talkative (call), i always do the talking but he's like not that talkative at all.
Which i conclude, extroverts + extroverts are not a good match unless both have common interest.
Extroverts perfect match are introverts. I think.
Whenever I'm talking with an introvert, they're very interested in me. And they're like happily listening to my stories.
Unlike extroverts, they just wanna speak and wanna be heard all the time.
Number 9 large, That occurred to me right away.
But two things lean slightly against that. One, I'm fairly good at flexible conversations IRL and pay enough attention to the other person that I can tell when they are getting bored and I try to steer the conversation toward the other person's concerns and what they want to talk about, and two, she was on commission.
No, I think she just got tired. Not everyone is 100% extroverted.
@idontgiveaf is right about two extroverts not being that compatible. I've also been told by a male ESI who was seeing an ILI that two introverts aren't that great, either, because they both just sit there. Neither one is naturally inclined to start and maintain a conversation. The male ESI who told me that has been working pretty hard to maintain a relationship with the ILI, but I think that's more because ESI & ILI is not a bad match and they are both gay and expats (from Germany and Japan) and are getting older and their choices are not as great as they might be if their situations were different.
I think an ESI tends to just go for what's available sometimes and an ILI tends to say, "This person wants me, I'll let them stick around for a while."
The classic ILI/SEE relationship is Bill and Melinda Gates
I'm so not SeE. ILIs.. I just cannot get along well in ILI no matter how. I like iei better than ili actually. Probably Fi doesn't really amuses me that much. I might really be an SLe.
I love the shame of women
I think bisexual women test the waters with ridiculous generalizations
For the past few months, I've been platonically seeing this female SEE every Friday. She works in a restaurant where I eat once a week, and we really click because we are Activity partners and what they say about Activity partners is true; we anticipate each other's needs. I tell her she's beautiful and she tells me I'm right, and the other day it was 90 degrees out and I was sweating and she just handed me a napkin to wipe the sweat off my forehead. When I come in, I can tell that she's been waiting for me. Well, I, in turn, have been looking forward to talking with her.
Anyway, she's telling me about Astrology and I'm telling her about Socionics and how she should be looking for an ILI dual. The other day, I ran across this movie about a romance between a female SEE and a male ILI. I told her about it, because it is a pretty good portrait of an SEE and an ILI. It's name is "Take Me Home Tonight".
The SEE says "I saw that movie!"
I thought, "What? It's pretty obscure. Does she just spend her time watching movies?"
"It has that blonde girl in it, and that guy, what's his name?"
"Umm, he has a strange name. But the blonde girl is you. If you were blonde."
She thinks for a while. "Topher. Topher Grace!"
"Yes! That's the guy. He's your dual."
She pauses and looks away. She doesn't say anything for a long few seconds.
Then she says, "I can't tell you how disappointing that is."
I think, "What? She's supposed to instantly see his good qualities, just like I do. But wait a minute, Adam, that's not what Socionics says happens."
"Wait just a minute," I say. "Remember, I said earlier that extroverts tend to ignore their duals?" I sound like I'm pleading now. "Well, you're ignoring him, but he's your best long term match. It might not seem like he is, but he is."
She grabbed her purse, stood up to go, and then paused and held out her hand to shake, which I did.
"OK, see you next week", she said, and left.
You can't ripen a field before it's time. She's going to have to crash and burn with her LSI-Se BF before she's ready to move on.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-22-2019 at 11:44 AM.