Ask an SLE woman

[Adam Strange]

@sbbds, you’re probably right that I ought to seem more possessive. I’ll try.

@Adam Strange,

Lol, you’re probably right. I might ask an ILE for advice, if anything. Or at least try to consider what an ILE might do.

My gf has complained often that I don’t seem protective or sexually aggressive enough. And more than that, she’s said several times like I seem “too intellectual to be interested in sexual matters”, “interested in higher pleasures”, and so on, essentially complaining that I don’t seem interested in anything sexual or basically bodily/instinctual. And that’s...not the case, at all. It does make sense that she expects the better role Se of an ILE, or at least the more performative Fe, and I just am phenomenally bad at expressing either function.

I can only relate two instances where an ILE interacted with a female. In the first case, the male ILE went into the SEI's office and said "You have to do what I want! I'M the BOSS." The SEI, who is older than he is and works in a different area, stood up and told him firmly, like a mother to a kid, "No, I'M the boss." The ILE slunk out, but he at least tried. It was actually an awesome thing to see, TBH. It verified Socionics right down the line.

The second time, I talked to the same ILE and asked him if he's ever getting married. He's almost 40 and he's still living like a kid. He said to me angrily, he wasn't a kid, and the last GF he had, he was banging her from behind and pulling on her hair, which isn't like a kid AT ALL. Role Se, indeed.

I hope this helps. But honestly, it is really, really hard to give a woman something that you don't do naturally. You either accept a person for the person that they are, or you don't.

[FreelancePoliceman]

I can only relate two instances where an ILE interacted with a female. In the first case, the male ILE went into the SEI's office and said "You have to do what I want! I'M the BOSS." The SEI, who is older than he is and works in a different area, stood up and told him firmly, like a mother to a kid, "No, I'M the boss." The ILE slunk out, but he at least tried. It was actually an awesome thing to see, TBH. It verified Socionics right down the line.

The second time, I talked to the same ILE and asked him if he's ever getting married. He's almost 40 and he's still living like a kid. He said to me angrily, he wasn't a kid, and the last GF he had, he was banging her from behind and pulling on her hair, which isn't like a kid AT ALL. Role Se, indeed.

I hope this helps. But honestly, it is really, really hard to give a woman something that you don't do naturally. You either accept a person for the person that they are, or you don't.

It does, actually. Your description helps make sense of some of the issues we've had together. I've actually known a couple ILE-SEI couples, but I've always been much closer with the ILEs than the SEIs, and I hadn't really seen much of their interactions together. Those ILEs were also more mature than the average ILE tends to be, and though I saw hints of that scolding-parent-slinking-child dynamic, it tended to seem more playful.

Putting this in a spoiler since I don't want to derail @sbbds' thread too much.

I've been trying to make Socionical sense of why my girlfriend and I keep arriving at standoffs so much. It's felt like we fight in the realm of Ti; that is, we end up in fights where she'll try to establish some Ti-based point in opposition to me, on these really minor and inconsequential topics, and I argue back. I inevitably "win" these, but this makes her upset; she's said I try to make her feel stupid, I make fun of her, and I just argue against her for the fun of it (this last point is sometimes true, honestly, but she levels it even when I'm desperately trying not to upset her), or that I'm "not being fair"; essentially, it's seemed like the problem is that she feels she's right, but doesn't feel she's good enough at Ti to defeat me in an argument.

But I think now a lot of this is rooted in a desire on her part to "correct" her partner. This manifests frequently with her two younger siblings, an EII and an ILE, to whom she acts very confidently and assertively almost as a parent -- she makes sure she's a part of their lives so she can help them manage it, even if she seems to act grudgingly about it sometimes. She's quick to tell them that they're being idiots and basically "correct" them when she sees them doing something she thinks they shouldn't be doing. I'd attributed this to her siblings kind of being idiots, but it really does make sense that she's naturally oriented to act like this. And the problem with me could really be that she just doesn't feel like she's able to tell me what to do, and, worse than that, like I tell her what she should do.

She's also tried to "parent" me before. I don't like it. It feels like she treats me as a helpless child when she acts that way, and that's uncomfortable (I guess it isn't for ILEs?). I hope that isn't just how she wants to treat her romantic partners.

The LII-ESE dynamic is supposed to be similar. While I've not had a lot of experience with it, I would assume it's much more laid-back. I don't think I'm cut out for being coddled, at least not in the way she seems to want to do it. If the "correcting" caregiving of the SEI is designed to cover the ILE's Fi PoLR, then the ESE's caregiving, I'd think, would be designed to push the LII to activity. So maybe the aversion to coddling is being wired to want a partner who'll help me in the Se-realm rather than wrap me up in swaddling cloths.

[Adam Strange]

It does, actually. Your description helps make sense of some of the issues we've had together. I've actually known a couple ILE-SEI couples, but I've always been much closer with the ILEs than the SEIs, and I hadn't really seen much of their interactions together. Those ILEs were also more mature than the average ILE tends to be, and though I saw hints of that scolding-parent-slinking-child dynamic, it tended to seem more playful.

Putting this in a spoiler since I don't want to derail @sbbds' thread too much.

I've been trying to make Socionical sense of why my girlfriend and I keep arriving at standoffs so much. It's felt like we fight in the realm of Ti; that is, we end up in fights where she'll try to establish some Ti-based point in opposition to me, on these really minor and inconsequential topics, and I argue back. I inevitably "win" these, but this makes her upset; she's said I try to make her feel stupid, I make fun of her, and I just argue against her for the fun of it (this last point is sometimes true, honestly, but she levels it even when I'm desperately trying not to upset her), or that I'm "not being fair"; essentially, it's seemed like the problem is that she feels she's right, but doesn't feel she's good enough at Ti to defeat me in an argument.

But I think now a lot of this is rooted in a desire on her part to "correct" her partner. This manifests frequently with her two younger siblings, an EII and an ILE, to whom she acts very confidently and assertively almost as a parent -- she makes sure she's a part of their lives so she can help them manage it, even if she seems to act grudgingly about it sometimes. She's quick to tell them that they're being idiots and basically "correct" them when she sees them doing something she thinks they shouldn't be doing. I'd attributed this to her siblings kind of being idiots, but it really does make sense that she's naturally oriented to act like this. And the problem with me could really be that she just doesn't feel like she's able to tell me what to do, and, worse than that, like I tell her what she should do.

She's also tried to "parent" me before. I don't like it. It feels like she treats me as a helpless child when she acts that way, and that's uncomfortable (I guess it isn't for ILEs?). I hope that isn't just how she wants to treat her romantic partners.

The LII-ESE dynamic is supposed to be similar. While I've not had a lot of experience with it, I would assume it's much more laid-back. I don't think I'm cut out for being coddled, at least not in the way she seems to want to do it.

Oh, man, FP, you are breaking my heart.

You are trying to do Activity. I know of two ESI-ILI (Activity) couples and the first one broke up and the second one is not going well and they don't know why. I know a female LIE who is trying to have nothing to do with her SEE ex-BF, but they have two kids together and she's not happy when he comes around. She moved her and her kids to a new place, and he still shows up there.

I feel that Activity is immediately satisfying and fun, but eventually turns into something that is just horrible. Your partner seems like they should be perfect but every once in a while, you discover that they are not on the same page as you are. They are on a seriously different page.

I have a lot of ILI friends, and while they are really easy to take 95% of the time, that j/p divide creeps up on you.

I actually believe that the j/p difference is kind of like light beer. You've done the multiple hits of acid and you've done the meth and the heroin and the mescaline and the whiskey and you figure that they are all too strong as a steady diet if you are going to appear at work on Monday, but you can handle the light beer just fine. Five years later, you are a drunk and your life is completely destroyed.

OK, that's the bad part. The good part is that I have seen several people write on this forum about their very happy Activity marriages. So your mileage may vary. After all, Activity is considered to be one of the top three out of 16 relationships, and I was more or less happy in a marriage for many years with an ISTp Supervisor, which is considered to be rated around 12/16.