How to systemically V.I. Betas

[Sandoval]

From my experience, Beta types have a distinct look (similar to the above) characterized by an earthy, often sensual, and cunning aura. Even in those that are a little socially inept, there's a latent smoothtalker underneath. They have a gravity around which manifests in more methodical movements, coordinated presentation, walk and facial expressions. They can display quite a contrast to the Alpha types who are less smooth and more silly and spontaneous.

Visual Identification:

What makes up this appearance is two parts. Their eyes (which are serious, focused, and a little hypnotic) and their smile (which is well toned, forward and coordinated). Here are images of what these look like:




When Ni is strongly represented, the eyes are unfocused, but still serious. The skin around the eyes is stretched away from the eye, but the top of the eye is partially covered by the eyelid. They may look unimpressed, bored or generally relaxed. Their eyes may also drift to the sides and "zone-out" (bottom images) as they access their Ni's worldview.



The second part of this is their mouth, which is hard to define without comparing it to the Te/Fi mouth. But generally speaking, there's a "toning" of the zygomaticus muscles that run horizontally from the ears to the corners of the lips like so (the arrows):



This tone makes their mouth look a little "confrontational" and forward even when at rest. The lips are pursed a little bit, with the outer edges of the lips slightly lowered. They may look "upset" and condescending. But when they smile, it's via a nice, smooth smile that opens up from ear to ear and creates natural dimples as the skin is pushed out of the way of the smile like a theater curtain being opened.




So what do you guys think? How would you rate the accuracy of this method?

[Adam Strange]

This is a great post. It is pretty much the method I use unconsciously.
Great example pictures, BTW.

[Aylen]

Socionics New Wave material

I have Beta eyes!

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

actually it's the most decent take on centralizing VI info! a fi-esi girl i know looks exactly like a picture in the equivalent gamma thread.

[Aylen]

actually it's the most decent take on centralizing VI info! a fi-esi girl i know looks exactly like a picture in the equivalent gamma thread.

In delta thread the bottom right hand female image looks a lot like an IEE friend of mine and reminds me a bit of @applejacks too.

[Hays]

@Sandoval
Here's a fairly recent typical kind of photo of myself, would you say I look more Beta overall with unfocused eyes or Gamma due to high eyebrows? (though these brows are minor compared to my mothers!).

*photo link removed*

[Sandoval]

@Sandoval
Here's a fairly recent typical kind of photo of myself, would you say I look more Beta overall with unfocused eyes or Gamma due to high eyebrows?
link removed

Hi, nice to meet you.

I do see what I'd call Ni/Se eyes, but the mouth looks quite Fi/Te in shape from this alone.

I definitely wouldn't go off of this photo alone, but you could be SeFi or FiSe ~just as a first impression. ^^

[Hays]

Hi, nice to meet you.

I do see what I'd call Ni/Se eyes, but the mouth looks quite Fi/Te in shape from this alone.

I definitely wouldn't go off of this photo alone, but you could be SeFi or FiSe ~just as a first impression. ^^

Hi, thanks for thoughts.
Should have mentioned that one side of face droops especially around mouth area as it was paralysed at one stage and then again for 6 months last year causing it to remain weaker than the other side.
Added a few more photos, just scrolling through them via this link should work:

*photos link removed*

[Sandoval]

Hi, thanks for thoughts.
Should have mentioned that one side of face droops especially around mouth area as it was paralysed at one stage and remains weaker than the other side.
Added a few more photos, just scrolling through them via this Lin should work:
link removed

Ah yeah, that'll do it..
That's why images can be iffy, but if you have videos I'll be glad to give it a try.

[Muddy]

Based on these I think I actually look like beta the most. Some pics I've taken in the past:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...56&oe=57AD983D
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1b&oe=57B3EFF0
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...15&oe=5799FFF6

[Sandoval]

Based on these I think I actually look like beta the most. Some pics I've taken in the past:

Beta is a very strong chance, I'd agree. Can't say 100% w/o video, but you look rather TiSe to me.

This is just an exercise in guessing, but you look the type to have a dual relationship to sensory stimuli. I get the impression that on one hand you are very spartan, minimalist (no fancy pantings, decor, no fancy attire or concern for appearance) yet in conjunction with a selective sensory channel, maybe toward precision sports like paintball, FPS, maybe drag racing, etc. There's yang there to do a lot, but perhaps it's a bit all-or-nothing where it has to pass a threshold of apathy. This is something I've noticed in introverted Betas anyway.

Totally extrapolating too far here, lol. Don't mind me. *digresses*

[darya]

@Sandoval
Here's a fairly recent typical kind of photo of myself, would you say I look more Beta overall with unfocused eyes or Gamma due to high eyebrows?
http://http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/Denzylles/media/image_zps7m014pra.jpeg.html
(Excuse the old wrinkly hands!)

I'd say you look gamma SF.

[Muddy]

Beta is a very strong chance, I'd agree. Can't say 100% w/o video, but you look rather TiSe to me.

This is just an exercise in guessing, but you look the type to have a dual relationship to sensory stimuli. I get the impression that on one hand you are very spartan, minimalist (no fancy pantings, decor, no fancy attire or concern for appearance) yet in conjunction with a selective sensory channel, maybe toward precision sports like paintball, FPS, maybe drag racing, etc. There's yang there to do a lot, but perhaps it's a bit all-or-nothing where it has to pass a threshold of apathy. This is something I've noticed in introverted Betas anyway.

Totally extrapolating too far here, lol. Don't mind me. *digresses*

You are correct, I care very little about things like home decor, which to me just seem too petty and insignificant to be worth giving attention to. I always found it extremely annoying when my parents forced me to to do things such as cutting the grass or shoveling snow off the drive way because I saw those types of activities as completely pointless. Traversing ice is much more thrilling then picking up snow anyway. Even though I'm very calm and laid back on the surface I would most definitely say I have a hidden desire for combat side underneath. I use online games a lot as of means channeling my aggression towards others and I'm pretty much unable to enjoy a show or movie if it doesn't have some sort of violence in it. Stuff like Alvin and the Chipmunks makes me want to throw up, I'd much rather watch something heavier like The Revenant or The Walking Dead. I also a bit of an enthusiast for weapons, armor or anything relating to war.

I'd like to note however that even though I like War-type conflict I am very much offput by verbal conflict. The people I hate the most are the ones who always go searching for some flaw or mistake you made and then bitch about it. Exchanging nasty remarks with others damages my soul deeply.

[Hays]

I'd say you look gamma SF.

I'm guessing you scrolled through all the photos there?

[darya]

I'm guessing you scrolled through all the photos there?

I have, but I got the gamma SF impression of you purely from your picture, not as in comparison.

[Hays]

I have, but I got the gamma SF impression of you purely from your picture, not as in comparison.

Cool, I shall try on gamma SF for a while though nothing in the descriptions makes me think I am one apart from the fact that I get on really well in the real world with ENTj males.

[darya]

Cool I shall try on gamma SF for a while though nothing in the descriptions makes me think I am one apart from the fact that I get on really well in the real world with ENTj males.

No no, don't try it just because I said so lol. It's just a stupid impression from a picture, nothing more. What description do you find most like yourself?

[Persephone]

The blonde on the left looks like @darya

[Sandoval]

The blonde on the left looks like @darya

Interesting! The five on the left are FeNi types, while the five on the right are SeTi types.
Lucky guess maybe. ^^

I realized that in a sense you put a bunch of generally older-looking people in suits for Delta, and much sharper, more beautiful, young people for Beta. I see the VI you are attempting to a very certain degree, however of course lots of people are going to thumbs up such a distribution and agree.

I have some younger examples too. I'll post them tomorrow if it's ok, as it's gotten kinda late for me. Goodnight all!

[Hays]

No no, don't try it just because I said so lol. It's just a stupid impression from a picture, nothing more. What description do you find most like yourself?

Well that's the problem as I see a bit of myself in all types. And those who know me think I am an NT type followed by an NF type. A friend who worked as a Myers Briggs Coach types me as INTp with INFp as a backup. Last year a person approached me to come into a course they were leading as an example of an ENTj female and I declined as I told them I didn't think I was one.
Currently my husband thinks I am ENFj or ENTp....
None of the descriptions fit me that well and there's so many contradictions to what a type is.
Here on the forum, I don't think I fit anywhere. Even in the 'real world' I am like the oddly coloured fluorescent jellybean in a jar of others all the same colour and flavour and it's quite exciting when I meet another odd jellybean.

I'm not worried about trying types out here - it's a bit humorous and all it really means is I put SF in my profile details and watch others reactions as they interact.

[Resonare]

@Sandoval Do you know the type of the woman two to the right of the blonde in the first picture?

[suedehead]

Quintessential Beta VI, imo:

[maniac]

Where do you find the rest of these?

[Sandoval]

@Sandoval Do you know the type of the woman two to the right of the blonde in the first picture?

I composited the faces from a few different people, but SeTi is the representation. Although that look isn't impossible to find occasionally in some SeFi.

I'm guessing it resembles a friend?

[Beautiful sky]

I understand the desire for TiNe to bring things into a system but I encourage you to please view verbal information and find other common links. I say this because many of my LII friends have used their system and gotten into bad or incompatible relationships only to discover that they were wrong. I will say now that a lot of your typing are not accurate

[Sandoval]

I understand the desire for TiNe to bring things into a system but I encourage you to please view verbal information and find other common links. I say this because many of my LII friends have used their system and gotten into bad or incompatible relationships only to discover that they were wrong. I will say now that a lot of your typing are not accurate

I hope I don't come across as dogmatic... I am quite receptive to input. But I actually know exactly what you mean, and have done some personal development to let loose of that tendency toward "fixation". I wrote something similar once about the TiNe type:

"As with all Ne-Si types, concepts are seen as objects to mentally manipulate, and this subtype of TiNe takes the role of engineer for these concepts; building from them an elegant, crystalline structure – a castle in the sky. These theoretical architectures propose an explanation for a certain phenomenon of reality but always with a certain level of idealized detachment from the actual dynamics of the world. They may find an affinity for topics such as philosophy, psychology and linguistics where abstract rules can precisely organize information."

Verbal (well, psychological) information is deeply important, yes. I don't confirm a typing without taking that into account and am willing to override this visual framework when it doesn't properly describe a person's psychology. Body/expression reading is trying approximate someone's psychology via the secondary effects of psychology; it cannot define it.

[Resonare]

I composited the faces from a few different people, but SeTi is the representation. Although that look isn't impossible to find occasionally in some SeFi.

I'm guessing it resembles a friend?

Well I VI as ESI and she looks like me so I think the faces used for the composition may have contained a few by mistake

[Sandoval]

Well I VI as ESI and she looks like me so I think the faces used for the composition may have contained a few by mistake

Yeah, I was gonna say... That particular photo, of all of these, can appear SeFi and even FiSe.

It comes closer to this one in the Gamma thread (she is an FiSe composite):



It could've been a mistype yeah. Though, as I mentioned to Maritsa, there's a level of crossover in looks sometimes so I don't fixate too rigidly on static appearances. Still I think a system like this one can take our V.I. accuracy up by a high percentage, even if it doesn't reach 100%.

I'm actually quite surprised that this aligns even as close as it does with you guys' observations. o.o Considering my conclusions were drawn from entirely different places and I know very little about Socionics. ^^

[Adam Strange]

Yeah, I was gonna say... That particular photo, of all of these, can appear SeFi and even FiSe.

It comes closer to this one in the Gamma thread (she is an FiSe composite):



It could've been a mistype yeah. Though, as I mentioned to Maritsa, there's a level of crossover in looks sometimes so I don't fixate too rigidly on static appearances. Still I think a system like this one can take our V.I. accuracy up by a high percentage, even if it doesn't reach 100%.

I'm actually quite surprised that this aligns even as close as it does with you guys' observations. o.o Considering my conclusions were drawn from entirely different places and I know very little about Socionics. ^^

I would type the woman placed two to the right of the blonde in the first picture as LSI, and the one above as being either LSI or ESI, For the one above, I would have to talk to her for a while to form a firmer opinion. Her left half of her face looks "harder" than a typical ESI's does, and her right half of her face looks a bit too logical to be ESI, but the openness of her eyes does seem ESI to me.

[weirdleftovers]

Explains why I have RBF (resting bitch face).

[Olimpia]

I tend to believe RBF is a result of either 1D Fe or Fe Ignoring.
Why else would the face show little emotional expression?

Anyhow, V.I is tricky, and is more prone to being misused than well-used.
For instance, some random person once said that the shape of my lips makes them think I am not IEI. So lame.

[darya]

No, Fe egos are more than able of having a RBF.

[golden]

I tend to believe RBF is a result of either 1D Fe or Fe Ignoring.
Why else would the face show little emotional expression?

Anyhow, V.I is tricky, and is more prone to being misused than well-used.
For instance, some random person once said that the shape of my lips makes them think I am not IEI. So lame.

There are lots of reasons to have RBF. It could be the result of not being present to your environment and therefore not invested in your facial expression. It could be having a hereditary downturned mouth. It could be a deliberate social strategy. It could be that the person is in fact bitchy. Or in my city, people tend to adopt a very blank and removed baseline facial expression because that's actually both polite -- it makes it clear you're not being confrontational, since you look a bit absent -- and somewhat unapproachable.

[persimmonism]

The lips are pursed a little bit, with the outer edges of the lips slightly lowered.

I don't purse my lips themselves, it's more like gently squeezing the outer edges of your mouth together. it doesn't necessarily lower the edges of my lips, though.
I do that all the time without meaning to-- is that what Sandoval means?

[Northstar]

You can find the current development of this system at https://cognitivetype.com/
It's not socionics but the quadras match socionics quadras and I agree that many of the signals correspond to their namesakes in socionics. It's a good primer on spotting typical non-verbals.

[Alomoes]

Someone actually trying to do it? I'll look and see if it's good.

You're golden if you can prove it's accurate. I am not doing the legwork on that though.

[Sol]

Their eyes (which are serious, focused, and a little hypnotic)

EIE/IEI watch so "seriously" It's more about T.

> When Ni is strongly represented, the eyes are unfocused, but still serious.

*sigh*